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I know this forum is full of music heads so I thought I'd put this question to you...
Do you agree with David Bowie's view on the Beatles? - See video below:
I think the Beatles are massively overrated. They've got some great songs/albums, but Bowie is right, you don't see their influence in modern music. So much better stuff going on when the Beatles were around.
It's hard to know if they'd have been less anything without GM. He certainly was part of the perfect storm that resulted in the magnificent output of the Beatles. A producer of comedy platters, who given the appropriate company turns out a genius.
I absolutely love it!
Love the Stones too.
Never really seen it as a competition. Even if the bands themselves did, at the time. Reading a biography of Brian Wilson, he was certainly very competitive. But that drove him to some great musical heights himself. So...
As for ELO. Meh...
The Move, on the other hand. Brummie genius
[Post edited 22 May 2023 12:28]
Don't forgot this George Martin product - one of the best rock instrumental albums ever made, Jeff Beck's "Blow By Blow."
Not forgetting that Little Richard was an Esquerita impersonator.
I thoroughly gorged myself on the Beatles at an early age too almost to the point where they didn’t register in my brain anymore. But I still love ‘em and every now and then I’ll play the first LP full volume. Recoded in some ridiculous amount of time like 6 hours or something. The energy coming off it is amazing - you can almost smell the sweat and the clean German pharmaceutical grade amphetamine. A one two three FOUR! …
[Post edited 23 May 2023 1:05]
Robert Elms played a Louis Jordan track the other day and to be honest I'd never heard of him! ... However listening to this one from 1946 you can see where Bill Hayley got some of his influences?
Not forgetting that Little Richard was an Esquerita impersonator.
I thoroughly gorged myself on the Beatles at an early age too almost to the point where they didn’t register in my brain anymore. But I still love ‘em and every now and then I’ll play the first LP full volume. Recoded in some ridiculous amount of time like 6 hours or something. The energy coming off it is amazing - you can almost smell the sweat and the clean German pharmaceutical grade amphetamine. A one two three FOUR! …
Two major influences not mentioned so far that, IMO, changed the shape of music for me were The Sex Pistols & Eminem. Some of Marshall's lyrics are inspired, and so detached from the guns, whips & b*tch*s lyrics that were so prevalent when he broke through. Even in his D12 phase you tell that he had something and Stan is a stand alone classic.
Two major influences not mentioned so far that, IMO, changed the shape of music for me were The Sex Pistols & Eminem. Some of Marshall's lyrics are inspired, and so detached from the guns, whips & b*tch*s lyrics that were so prevalent when he broke through. Even in his D12 phase you tell that he had something and Stan is a stand alone classic.
Like the point about Beatles,you don't hear his influence in hip-hop today. Popular in his time, yes. Influential, no. I think hip-hop as a genre is far more progressive and creative than rock/guitar music. It's sound changes much faster and is far less derivative and has a lot more distinct regional style.
I can think of three albums that came out around the same time of the Slim Shady/Marshall Mathers LP that were way ahead in terms of influence/stlye/lyrical content - MF Doom, Operation Doomsday, Deltron 3030 and Dead Prez, Let's get free. That's just three off the top of my head, there'll definitely be more.
Eminem did what white people have done throughout the history of 20th century music, take black music and make it acceptable to a wider white audience.
Give me Skinny Man any day over Eminem. It's all opinions and that's mine.
The way I look at music is you can show appreciation for a musician, band or genre without actually liking it. I don't like the band Queen but I can appreciate the quality of their writing and playing, not to mention the incredible variety they managed to weave into their songs.
I tend to prefer music which creates a mood so instrumental music is more my thing. When I listen to some early Tangerine Dream albums, I really struggle to work out how they made them. They have somehow combined atmospheres, sound effects, complex rhythms *and* genuinely interesting tunes into a powerful, original and meaningful whole. It's pure genius in my humble opinion. "Tangram" and "Force Majeure," man alive, the A grade material just keeps coming. Immense. "Rubycon" is far from my favourite album of theirs but the first seven minutes are like a recording made when the earth was still in a primeval state. Inspired, breath-taking stuff.
PS: "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture". Attributed to musical comedian Martin Mull
Fantastic album!
I feel the same about music and mood, particularly as I've got older. Instrumental music can be much more immersive and rewarding. At times it can require a bit more effort to listen to, but is ultimately a richer experience.
I think you'd appreciate 'Unclassified' on BBC Radio 3:
Two major influences not mentioned so far that, IMO, changed the shape of music for me were The Sex Pistols & Eminem. Some of Marshall's lyrics are inspired, and so detached from the guns, whips & b*tch*s lyrics that were so prevalent when he broke through. Even in his D12 phase you tell that he had something and Stan is a stand alone classic.
I'm sorry, I'm coming across overbearing but I'm really not sure about Eminem changing the shape of music.
He was certainly very talented, and got Middle America into hip hop. But his lyrics were still full of the type of violence and misogyny you distance him from. I mean:
"They said I can't rap about bein' broke no more They ain't say I can't rap about coke no more Slut, you think I won't choke no wh**e 'Til the vocal cords don't work in her throat no more? These motherf***ers are thinkin' I'm playin' Thinkin' I'm sayin' the s**t 'cause I'm thinkin' it just to be sayin' it Put your hands down b*tch, I ain't gon' shoot you I'ma pull you to this bullet, and put it through you"
West Coast hip hop was the "gangster" dominated genre - Eminem just built on the more lyrically focused, political and polemical East Coast style of De La Soul, nas, Beasties etc. And he did it very well, and was very successful - i just feel there's a demarcation between "good" and "influential". For example I don't personally think Suicide were good, but their influence was undeniable
Like the point about Beatles,you don't hear his influence in hip-hop today. Popular in his time, yes. Influential, no. I think hip-hop as a genre is far more progressive and creative than rock/guitar music. It's sound changes much faster and is far less derivative and has a lot more distinct regional style.
I can think of three albums that came out around the same time of the Slim Shady/Marshall Mathers LP that were way ahead in terms of influence/stlye/lyrical content - MF Doom, Operation Doomsday, Deltron 3030 and Dead Prez, Let's get free. That's just three off the top of my head, there'll definitely be more.
Eminem did what white people have done throughout the history of 20th century music, take black music and make it acceptable to a wider white audience.
Give me Skinny Man any day over Eminem. It's all opinions and that's mine.
Not many rappers can compare with MF DOOM.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
While we're slaying sacred cows. What the f**k is the deal with Pink Floyd?
On the one hand, everyone in the world likes them. But on the other hand, their music makes me bored and unhappy. That 'The Wall' song is up there in my top three most hated songs.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
While we're slaying sacred cows. What the f**k is the deal with Pink Floyd?
On the one hand, everyone in the world likes them. But on the other hand, their music makes me bored and unhappy. That 'The Wall' song is up there in my top three most hated songs.
Dark Side of the Moon is a pretty astonishing singular piece of work, and I like Shine On/Wish You Were Here - but their later stuff is overwrought pompous BS and their earlier stuff is LSD infused drek
While we're slaying sacred cows. What the f**k is the deal with Pink Floyd?
On the one hand, everyone in the world likes them. But on the other hand, their music makes me bored and unhappy. That 'The Wall' song is up there in my top three most hated songs.
"One of These Days I'm Going to Cut You Into Little Pieces"
My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic.
Like the point about Beatles,you don't hear his influence in hip-hop today. Popular in his time, yes. Influential, no. I think hip-hop as a genre is far more progressive and creative than rock/guitar music. It's sound changes much faster and is far less derivative and has a lot more distinct regional style.
I can think of three albums that came out around the same time of the Slim Shady/Marshall Mathers LP that were way ahead in terms of influence/stlye/lyrical content - MF Doom, Operation Doomsday, Deltron 3030 and Dead Prez, Let's get free. That's just three off the top of my head, there'll definitely be more.
Eminem did what white people have done throughout the history of 20th century music, take black music and make it acceptable to a wider white audience.
Give me Skinny Man any day over Eminem. It's all opinions and that's mine.
I'd take either of TaskForce, Jehst, and probably Klashnekoff over Skinnyman....And I was a big Skinnyman fan once upon a time! Probably still am if I stuck it on! Maybe we should have a UKHH thread on here?
My parents met working in a pub in Chiswick where part of the Movie HELP! was filmed. Dad met all 4 of them and was obsessed, so I grew up having a lot of Beatles rammed into my ears and find it all quite uninspiring. More of the early 60's, "nursery rhymes" as Bluce_Ree so eloquently put it, described my feeling perfectly.
A bit later on in life, I'm stoned as fck in a 1989 Bentley Continental (Big drug dealer car vibes) on the Pacific coast highway and my mate puts on the "Love" compilation - and I undoubtedly loved it. But, aged 24, still not entirely keen on listening to the Beatles in general. Another 18 months forward and my dad passed away. I now find it quite difficult to dislike any Beatles record and play Beatles more often than most of "My own" music.
Overrated? Probably by some. Influential on music? Undoubtedly. Underrated? Yeah, by me for most of my life. I am in the process of correcting that.
NB. Anyone into Beatles who doesn't "get" hip hop, but is interested, check out the Grey Album by Danger Mouse, which cleverly remixes The Beatles White Album with Jay-Z's Black Album. Available on Youtube for free.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
While we're slaying sacred cows. What the f**k is the deal with Pink Floyd?
On the one hand, everyone in the world likes them. But on the other hand, their music makes me bored and unhappy. That 'The Wall' song is up there in my top three most hated songs.
Robith has pretty much nailed this one imo
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
While we're slaying sacred cows. What the f**k is the deal with Pink Floyd?
On the one hand, everyone in the world likes them. But on the other hand, their music makes me bored and unhappy. That 'The Wall' song is up there in my top three most hated songs.
Tedious sixth form wishy washy muzak. I also detest The Wall. Added to which Roger Waters has latterly been defecating all over himself and anything near him.
Just being early in a style gives you credibility. It's like Black Sabbath, fair play to them for creating stoner rock or whatever but the songs are shite mostly. Other bands took what they did and ran with it.
Like the Sex Pistols maybe. The music had an edge and was important but the tunes aren't great. But without them you don't get The Clash or whatever.
Pink Floyd were clever, experimental in the studio and a little bit rocking for their time but really they're just the Muse of the 70s. But they've been around a long time and that gives them legitimacy.
It's like how bands who were shit twenty years ago are suddenly seen as legends. Like Blink 182. A boy band with a distortion pedal. Seen as credible because they're old now.
I'm not into it.
Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore.
You have a real thing about boy bands, Bluce, it's not healthy.
People love blink 182 because they grew up with their music and it meant a lot to them at the time, it's not that deep. No one views them as influential or incredible musicians, they just made songs people like.
I would also heavily dispute your characterisation of them, but as our discussion have yielded on this thread - you're allowed to not like an artist's music without character assassinating them!
You have a real thing about boy bands, Bluce, it's not healthy.
People love blink 182 because they grew up with their music and it meant a lot to them at the time, it's not that deep. No one views them as influential or incredible musicians, they just made songs people like.
I would also heavily dispute your characterisation of them, but as our discussion have yielded on this thread - you're allowed to not like an artist's music without character assassinating them!
Out of interest, what do you actually like?
I do have a belief that sometimes the more mainstream an act is, the more some people want to dislike them simply so they can be different and "edgy".
You see this a lot with Brandon Flowers and The Killers. They are undeniably one of the biggest bands in the world, one of the best of their generation (album and ticket sales will attest to that) yet there will be people, and there are some on here, who will maintain until they're blue in the face that they are terrible.
Horses for courses, I've personally loved The Killers since I first heard Somebody Told Me back in 2004 and I actually think Hot Fuss is one of their weaker albums overall (Imploding the Mirage or Battle Born FTW). I've also seen them about 5 times now and loved them everytime. And not gonna lie I have a slight mancrush on Brandon Flowers (that said I wouldnt want to meet him, never meet your heroes and that).
Are they a band you would say are genre defining? Absolutely not, without 80s British music you wouldn't have The Killers today, and in future there will be probably be bands who exist because of The Killers, but I'm very much with you on "loved because they make music people liked" and it really is that simple.
Lots of artists I have no interest in, some of whom are very successful (Adele for instance) but it would be ridiculous for me to sit here and type "terrible" because she clearly isn't, just isn't to my taste.
I feel the same about music and mood, particularly as I've got older. Instrumental music can be much more immersive and rewarding. At times it can require a bit more effort to listen to, but is ultimately a richer experience.
I think you'd appreciate 'Unclassified' on BBC Radio 3:
If you like instrumental, atmospheric music but still want a tune in there, then I highly recommend California's Djam Karet. They have been around since the 80s and the earlier albums are much more guitar based than the recent ones. The track from 1991 below is outstanding, there is a section when the music is stripped backed to slowly building chords and plaintive electric guitar to create a hauntingly melancholic mood (the album it is taken from is about wars).
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
Dark Side of the Moon is a pretty astonishing singular piece of work, and I like Shine On/Wish You Were Here - but their later stuff is overwrought pompous BS and their earlier stuff is LSD infused drek
Have a listen to this wonderful track with Pink Floyd sampled in a mesmerising way. A track from Dark Side of the Moon I believe.
Just being early in a style gives you credibility. It's like Black Sabbath, fair play to them for creating stoner rock or whatever but the songs are shite mostly. Other bands took what they did and ran with it.
Like the Sex Pistols maybe. The music had an edge and was important but the tunes aren't great. But without them you don't get The Clash or whatever.
Pink Floyd were clever, experimental in the studio and a little bit rocking for their time but really they're just the Muse of the 70s. But they've been around a long time and that gives them legitimacy.
It's like how bands who were shit twenty years ago are suddenly seen as legends. Like Blink 182. A boy band with a distortion pedal. Seen as credible because they're old now.
I'm not into it.
"It's like Black Sabbath, fair play to them for creating stoner rock or whatever but the songs are shite mostly".
It's all about opinions, eh, Bluce, but if you listen to Sabbath's "Fairies wears boots," much of it sounds like punk or hardcore, but it was written in 1970.
Then there's the track below, you listen to the first four minutes 23 seconds and say to yourself - if you like heavy music - "Yeah, this is decent, mean riff, nice solos, strong rhythm section," then wallop, it goes off on a completely unexpected tangent, into a different genre!
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
I do have a belief that sometimes the more mainstream an act is, the more some people want to dislike them simply so they can be different and "edgy".
You see this a lot with Brandon Flowers and The Killers. They are undeniably one of the biggest bands in the world, one of the best of their generation (album and ticket sales will attest to that) yet there will be people, and there are some on here, who will maintain until they're blue in the face that they are terrible.
Horses for courses, I've personally loved The Killers since I first heard Somebody Told Me back in 2004 and I actually think Hot Fuss is one of their weaker albums overall (Imploding the Mirage or Battle Born FTW). I've also seen them about 5 times now and loved them everytime. And not gonna lie I have a slight mancrush on Brandon Flowers (that said I wouldnt want to meet him, never meet your heroes and that).
Are they a band you would say are genre defining? Absolutely not, without 80s British music you wouldn't have The Killers today, and in future there will be probably be bands who exist because of The Killers, but I'm very much with you on "loved because they make music people liked" and it really is that simple.
Lots of artists I have no interest in, some of whom are very successful (Adele for instance) but it would be ridiculous for me to sit here and type "terrible" because she clearly isn't, just isn't to my taste.
Some of what Adele does is terrible. The shouting, and mistaking it for 'power' mainly.
Still, as you say, people like it... 🤷â€â™‚ï¸
So I'll weigh in. Cards on the table love music, worked in the industry for a bit had a couple of bands, discovered dance music in the nineties , write music myself (though not that great Flash Ryan on Spotify you be the judge)
My tastes are pretty eclectic from 60's bands Kinks, Byrds, Hendrix, Motown and Soul, 70's Funk, Pink Floyd, Disco, 80's New Romantics /Synth Wave, Indie, Smiths Shoegaze, 90's House Techno, EDM, Electronica 00's Indie etc etc.
Basically there is great, good and bad in most genre's.
Love Bowie he's done some great stuff across many years, and some rubbish too.
The irony of this interview is that its from the time of Oasis who frankly are a Beatles tribute act (not a fan as you might tell) and is also from a period when Bowie was all in on Techno, drum and bass etc.
For me there is no doubt Beatles are one of the absolute greats, for many many reasons. Brilliant song writers across multiple types of song too. Pushed the envelope in Music, song structure, sound engineering etc yes there is some rubbish but its massively out weighed by innovative pop/rock songs that everyone still knows today and their music will be around for ever.
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