| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? 07:59 - Sep 21 with 6337 views | Lohengrin |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62971626
”The absolute discharge sentence means Rahman committed the offence but will not face any punishment or order.” |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:34 - Sep 21 with 1294 views | onehunglow |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:19 - Sep 21 by Sirjohnalot |
Because he has not been convicted of anything whatsoever. It is akin to someone accusing you of a serious offence, you being able to say anything in your defence, me defending you, person repeating it in court and locking you up for ever in case you may have done it.
Criminal standard is ‘so that you are sure ‘ for a reason.
I’m not sure how you cannot see the dangers in what you’re suggesting,
Complainants do lie |
As do many in Court |  |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:40 - Sep 21 with 1276 views | Sirjohnalot |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:33 - Sep 21 by Lohengrin |
”Yea, they’ve not decided he’s raped someone, simply that an act of sex took place.”
”The jury found Rahman did the acts alleged. They were one count of rape of a child under 13 and two counts of sexual assault.” |
‘The jury was therefore asked to determine whether Rahman did the acts alleged, instead of determining whether he was innocent or guilty.’
If you only hear from one side with no other input, it is almost inevitable that is what you will find for them.
If you’re in a bar and a woman says ‘Lohengrin touched me up’ and the bouncer, hearing that, takes you outside and gives you a kicking and puts you in hospital without letting you speak in case you did it in order to protect innocent victims, is that fair ? |  | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:40 - Sep 21 with 1271 views | Sirjohnalot |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:34 - Sep 21 by onehunglow |
As do many in Court |
Exactly, so how can you lock someone up only hearing one side ? | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:45 - Sep 21 with 1258 views | Lohengrin |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:40 - Sep 21 by Sirjohnalot |
Exactly, so how can you lock someone up only hearing one side ? |
You call it internment and give it the parliamentary fig-leaf of legality. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:47 - Sep 21 with 1252 views | Lohengrin |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:40 - Sep 21 by Sirjohnalot |
‘The jury was therefore asked to determine whether Rahman did the acts alleged, instead of determining whether he was innocent or guilty.’
If you only hear from one side with no other input, it is almost inevitable that is what you will find for them.
If you’re in a bar and a woman says ‘Lohengrin touched me up’ and the bouncer, hearing that, takes you outside and gives you a kicking and puts you in hospital without letting you speak in case you did it in order to protect innocent victims, is that fair ? |
Do cases really make it to court on a he said/she said basis? Isn’t there a threshold of proof that has to be crossed before Crown proceedings begin? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:48 - Sep 21 with 1250 views | onehunglow |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:40 - Sep 21 by Sirjohnalot |
Exactly, so how can you lock someone up only hearing one side ? |
I’m not in the Dock or am I.
I am concerned for victims more than perps so hang me .So to speak.
You’re in work mode John and it’s why I’m bailing out of this right here
Enjoy the rest of the evening | |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:50 - Sep 21 with 1230 views | controversial_jack |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:48 - Sep 21 by onehunglow |
I’m not in the Dock or am I.
I am concerned for victims more than perps so hang me .So to speak.
You’re in work mode John and it’s why I’m bailing out of this right here
Enjoy the rest of the evening |
Judge Dredd is off on one again | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:54 - Sep 21 with 1225 views | Sirjohnalot |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:48 - Sep 21 by onehunglow |
I’m not in the Dock or am I.
I am concerned for victims more than perps so hang me .So to speak.
You’re in work mode John and it’s why I’m bailing out of this right here
Enjoy the rest of the evening |
Ok, not a problem. Have a lovely evening | | | |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 21:01 - Sep 21 with 1204 views | Sirjohnalot |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:47 - Sep 21 by Lohengrin |
Do cases really make it to court on a he said/she said basis? Isn’t there a threshold of proof that has to be crossed before Crown proceedings begin? |
Yes, a realistic prospect of conviction, which is more than 50% but 10 years on, there will be no forensics, no cctv, there’ll be evidence, probably they knew each other, but nothing that will be tested.
In reality a person making a complaint, if they appear to be genuine, it is unlikely they will not be charged, bearing in mind he would not have been interviewed by the police.
Same thing has happened with that chap who ran at the Queen’s coffin. | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 21:23 - Sep 21 with 1179 views | 73__73 |
A friend of mine asked me this morning who Wales are playing this week, and I told him I didn’t know.
International football is shite. | |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 21:23 - Sep 21 with 1168 views | controversial_jack |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 21:01 - Sep 21 by Sirjohnalot |
Yes, a realistic prospect of conviction, which is more than 50% but 10 years on, there will be no forensics, no cctv, there’ll be evidence, probably they knew each other, but nothing that will be tested.
In reality a person making a complaint, if they appear to be genuine, it is unlikely they will not be charged, bearing in mind he would not have been interviewed by the police.
Same thing has happened with that chap who ran at the Queen’s coffin. |
What you are describing is a police state. That will.make some on.here very happy. | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 21:25 - Sep 21 with 1169 views | KeithHaynes |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 21:23 - Sep 21 by 73__73 |
A friend of mine asked me this morning who Wales are playing this week, and I told him I didn’t know.
International football is shite. |
Off topic there mate. |  |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 21:35 - Sep 21 with 1149 views | Sirjohnalot |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 21:25 - Sep 21 by KeithHaynes |
Off topic there mate. |
Probably a metaphor about mysteries of the criminal justice system | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 22:19 - Sep 21 with 1112 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 20:40 - Sep 21 by Sirjohnalot |
Exactly, so how can you lock someone up only hearing one side ? |
If that was the case every defendant would remain silent. |  |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 22:49 - Sep 21 with 1097 views | KeithHaynes |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 22:19 - Sep 21 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
If that was the case every defendant would remain silent. |
In interviews they regularly do. | |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 06:17 - Sep 22 with 987 views | Sirjohnalot |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 22:49 - Sep 21 by KeithHaynes |
In interviews they regularly do. |
Yes they do but that is a conscious choice and are warned about the possible consequence of an inference being taken in the caution if they remain silent. This is not a choice.
It’s not someone saying ‘I’ve lost my mind’ and the court simply accepting it | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 09:37 - Sep 22 with 935 views | onehunglow |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 22:49 - Sep 21 by KeithHaynes |
In interviews they regularly do. |
Any career criminal will no comment as it provides time to contruct a defence and he can only do that when he know all which the Police will present.
There is always a chance some jury member will not have the self confidence to pppprofeer a guilty verdict a the Defence and Judge will emphasis reasonable doubt.What is reasonable is the key issue. | |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 10:14 - Sep 22 with 920 views | controversial_jack |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 09:37 - Sep 22 by onehunglow |
Any career criminal will no comment as it provides time to contruct a defence and he can only do that when he know all which the Police will present.
There is always a chance some jury member will not have the self confidence to pppprofeer a guilty verdict a the Defence and Judge will emphasis reasonable doubt.What is reasonable is the key issue. |
A suspect, doesn't have to justify themselves to the police, only to the court.Advice is never to engage with the police under any circumstances. It's easy to inadvertently incriminate yourself, as the police are experts at doing this.
If you are arrested and charged, it's because the police believe you are guilty and will do what it takes to convict you. They are not in the business of finding anyone innocent.
If you are innocent, then let them prove it if they have the evidence, there's no need to help them do so. Of course you will need a decent solicitor for advice. | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 10:21 - Sep 22 with 914 views | Sirjohnalot |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 09:37 - Sep 22 by onehunglow |
Any career criminal will no comment as it provides time to contruct a defence and he can only do that when he know all which the Police will present.
There is always a chance some jury member will not have the self confidence to pppprofeer a guilty verdict a the Defence and Judge will emphasis reasonable doubt.What is reasonable is the key issue. |
Again, that is not true at all. Having been a solicitor before I transferred to the Bar, and represented 1000s of people in the police station, it is not right.
A lot depends on the strength of the case, lack of disclosure from the police, vulnerabilities of Def.
A no comment interview can be devastating, especially in front of a Jury. I make a huge play of it when prosecuting. Jurors don't like it.
Reasonable doubt has not been said for years , it is now 'so that you are sure' which, of course, is only right. | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 10:23 - Sep 22 with 905 views | Sirjohnalot |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 10:14 - Sep 22 by controversial_jack |
A suspect, doesn't have to justify themselves to the police, only to the court.Advice is never to engage with the police under any circumstances. It's easy to inadvertently incriminate yourself, as the police are experts at doing this.
If you are arrested and charged, it's because the police believe you are guilty and will do what it takes to convict you. They are not in the business of finding anyone innocent.
If you are innocent, then let them prove it if they have the evidence, there's no need to help them do so. Of course you will need a decent solicitor for advice. |
That's not correct. You hear 'never engage with the police' from people on twitter advising protestors who, quite frankly, have no idea what they're talking about. If anyone is ever arrested, get the duty solicitor if you do not have one. Giving a version of events, even by way of a prepared statement can be vital to a defence and the police must follow any reasonable lines of enquiry | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 11:40 - Sep 22 with 881 views | controversial_jack |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 10:23 - Sep 22 by Sirjohnalot |
That's not correct. You hear 'never engage with the police' from people on twitter advising protestors who, quite frankly, have no idea what they're talking about. If anyone is ever arrested, get the duty solicitor if you do not have one. Giving a version of events, even by way of a prepared statement can be vital to a defence and the police must follow any reasonable lines of enquiry |
Of course, get a solicitor for police disclosure and go from there. Giving a prepared careful written statement is not the same as being questioned by skilled interrogators. | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 11:47 - Sep 22 with 873 views | Sirjohnalot |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 11:40 - Sep 22 by controversial_jack |
Of course, get a solicitor for police disclosure and go from there. Giving a prepared careful written statement is not the same as being questioned by skilled interrogators. |
Reason behind that is you can do a prepared statement, outlining your defence and then go 'no comment' that way you can avoid an inference being drawn as the caution says that an inference can be drawn if you fail to mention something that you later rely on in court. | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 13:30 - Sep 22 with 839 views | onehunglow |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 10:21 - Sep 22 by Sirjohnalot |
Again, that is not true at all. Having been a solicitor before I transferred to the Bar, and represented 1000s of people in the police station, it is not right.
A lot depends on the strength of the case, lack of disclosure from the police, vulnerabilities of Def.
A no comment interview can be devastating, especially in front of a Jury. I make a huge play of it when prosecuting. Jurors don't like it.
Reasonable doubt has not been said for years , it is now 'so that you are sure' which, of course, is only right. |
Are you ever wrong .? | |
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| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 13:42 - Sep 22 with 828 views | majorraglan |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 13:30 - Sep 22 by onehunglow |
Are you ever wrong .? |
He isn’t on this, it’s his profession and he’s current. | | | |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 13:48 - Sep 22 with 821 views | onehunglow |
| What do you make of this, Sir John especially? on 13:42 - Sep 22 by majorraglan |
He isn’t on this, it’s his profession and he’s current. |
I was a custody officer for several years in a very busy Liverpool station.
Duty Solicitors were a daily event
Solicitors have a completely different perspective
Career criminals often won’t pass comment as it is simply a natural thing for them to do. Few cough and I’m sharing Jon s comments vis a vis no comment interviews as many would argue it is the right of a defendant to stay silent anyway so he had every right to stay Schaumburg.
And he has | |
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