| Warburton, Stick or twist? 19:06 - Apr 2 with 74714 views | RangersDave |
Ok, so we arent doing as well as most of us thought we would.
However, we all know we should have had a new striker in during the last window, but didnt and this appears it might have been a mistake.
If form continues the way it is, Stoke etc will beat us, and we will be almost where we were last season......ergo no real improvement, and a squad thats fat, old, lazy, or comtractually obliged to play every game.
However, next season will need more players, as some will be leaving us, so who do you want to pick those players and next seasons formations?
So, do we keep Warburton (Stick) or do we get rid (twist)
I will start this........ Twist |  |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 10:28 - Apr 5 with 3117 views | Rs_Holy |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 10:17 - Apr 5 by daveB |
it was on twitter and facebook yesterday
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cheers chaps! thank Gawd for Twitter and Facebook.... I might start using them one day [Post edited 5 Apr 2022 10:31]
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 12:01 - Apr 5 with 2917 views | eastside_r |
So here is my take on this FWIW.
Last time we were ‘seriously’ considering sacking MW was at the start of last calendar year. Rewind.
We had finished the previous season very poorly post-lockdown start-up and under achieved. We were playing badly and not getting results. MW, at that time, seemed to think that LTC was a decent midfield general at this level (clearly laughable IMHO) and our soon to be ‘best player’ Chris Willock was only being given cameo performances from the bench (again bewilderingly IMHO.)
And yet, even at that low point, on balance, I did not think it right then to sack MW and I have always described myself as a Warburton-sceptic.
Is the position now any worse than back then — I think not. Absolute credit to MW and his coaching staff for giving us a calendar year of great, entertaining football on a restricted budget.
No-one can argue that it has all gone to shite lately for whatever reason, but I think MW has enough credit in the bank to at least see the season out.
A long-winded way of saying ‘stick’. |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 12:12 - Apr 5 with 2886 views | DannytheR |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 10:01 - Apr 5 by robith |
Sorry but Austin and Johansen were key parts of a dramatic turn around in form last season, and the fans were baying for their signings. To suddenly call it "pound shop Redknapp"is revisionism of the highest order.
My understanding also is that Gray was meant to be a free transfer, but last minute Watford for whatever reason preferred to make it a loan. I imagine he'll sign permanently in the summer |
The pound shop Redknapp comment was aimed at the pointless signing of a "good honest pro" like Hendrick, brought into literally the only area of the team where we already had decent numbers, using who knows how much of a budget we're continually told is pocket change, and actively displacing our own young players in the process. (While playing badly.)
Well aware fans wanted Austin and Johansen brought in. That's why I mentioned it in my post. Self evidently doesn't make it the right call.
There again, De Wijs was also an important part of that same turnaround, and one of the great unanswered questions about this season has been why, while Austin and Johansen have been out and about practising their golf, he was abruptly so surplus to requirements as to be sent out on loan and replaced with someone else's player. (Who, again, then plays very badly.)
And life being short as it is, I'm just going to step away from the idea that signing Gray on a free transfer is meant to be the good news... [Post edited 5 Apr 2022 12:14]
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 12:52 - Apr 5 with 2754 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 23:18 - Apr 4 by daveB |
Lumley, Furlong, Chair and Deing were all the club a few years with several loan moves before breaking through and we do have quite a few out on loan at the moment following a similar path. Maybe it has all dried up and we'll not see anyone else come though but I think it's too early to tell on that front. |
I was chatting to Smegma before the game and he told me that the club have let most of last years U23's go, except Gubbins and those out on loan. This surprised me me as I thought Frailing & Carlyle were future 1st teamers. I don't know what that means for bettache & Bansal-McNulty but hearing that Franklin Domi, an Albanian U21 international, was a big surprise. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 13:09 - Apr 5 with 2693 views | themodfather |
let's get this season over, even if we went up warbs wold be gone , anyway we have stabilised and been top 10 2 seasons and winning and played well, can he take us further? can he push a team to promotion with qpr? clearly we have been rumbled, rigid tactics and oppo have bided their time and hit us, we missed a top scorer and dykes will never be it.
for me, time for change , this summer there will be dozens of managers about, i would like Bilic myself, who would argue with him? |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:30 - Apr 5 with 2559 views | daveB |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 12:12 - Apr 5 by DannytheR |
The pound shop Redknapp comment was aimed at the pointless signing of a "good honest pro" like Hendrick, brought into literally the only area of the team where we already had decent numbers, using who knows how much of a budget we're continually told is pocket change, and actively displacing our own young players in the process. (While playing badly.)
Well aware fans wanted Austin and Johansen brought in. That's why I mentioned it in my post. Self evidently doesn't make it the right call.
There again, De Wijs was also an important part of that same turnaround, and one of the great unanswered questions about this season has been why, while Austin and Johansen have been out and about practising their golf, he was abruptly so surplus to requirements as to be sent out on loan and replaced with someone else's player. (Who, again, then plays very badly.)
And life being short as it is, I'm just going to step away from the idea that signing Gray on a free transfer is meant to be the good news... [Post edited 5 Apr 2022 12:14]
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Blimey you really don't like Austin or Johansen do you.
I think De Wijs going was due to his fitness issues so it was felt Sanderson would be more reliable for the run in given De Wijs missed so many games. An understandable move although I'd personally have liked to see De Wijs stay |  | | |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:57 - Apr 5 with 2497 views | Hunterhoop |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:30 - Apr 5 by daveB |
Blimey you really don't like Austin or Johansen do you.
I think De Wijs going was due to his fitness issues so it was felt Sanderson would be more reliable for the run in given De Wijs missed so many games. An understandable move although I'd personally have liked to see De Wijs stay |
I would definitely like to see De Wijs stay. He’s played very well for us and is fit and playing well in Germany, and he’s our player. |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:27 - Apr 5 with 2450 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 17:52 - Apr 4 by Guppy |
Stick - weren`t we all having this same conversation around November 2020? |
Not quite the same, about 80% wanted him gone then! | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:32 - Apr 5 with 2438 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 12:19 - Apr 4 by RangersDave |
Well i've really started something here, havnt i?
I didnt mean it to get so divisive and in some places abusive towards me. And as such i'm sorry i did start it.
Let me try and explain where i am coming from a little better.
Do i want to see Warburton go? no, i do not
Do i want to see him stay? yes......but........ he has to change, tippy tappy triangular 'toberlone' footy is all pretty and keeps up the possession average for the stat boys out there, but it has been found out, and found out well by the teams we have played the last few months.
Can or will Warbs change is another matter. he has shown he cannot, and his unwillingess to try a fast pressing game , when we see it does work is strange.
Maybe he hasnt got the players to do that? maybe they are all injured? but.....we are where we are so why not 'blood' a youngster or 2, and give them the experience? Maybe not for a couple of more matches but after then if we are still in a slump?
Now, you have to ask why the situation with the 2 newbies playing instead of better players on the bench. We can only think that a) either Warbs rates them higher than his current players, or B) He's been told to play them. I dont know which to be fair.
Either way, we are not seeing the 'old rangers' from before 3 months ago, or dare i say it post Christmas. And i'm seeing a worrying trend on losing and not playing to our strengths..... maybe we dont have strengths at the moment.
Yes, i know we have financial constraints, and the guys there are working admirably to them, but why oh why are we paying benchwarmers we wont use, or developing players only to not use them in the first team? If they aint good enough, get rid.........if they are, then someone remind me of how old Michael Owen was when he made his England debut? Nah, dont...i know it, it was 18! Do we not have any youngsters like this in our teams?
So, here we are, we have done ok, if mid table at the end of the season is ok .......again! Do you honestly think that Warbs can push on, if so where's the money coming from to get 5-7 new players for next season? And do you think Wabs has the 'nouse' to be able to drop warbs ball and try something new?
At the moment we are slowly sliding to mid table mediocrity again, and dont tell me thats good. Last year we finished 9th, the year before 13th and before that 19th, so not much of an improvement under Warbs, and in fact it could end the season lower than 9th.
Mid table is fine, dont get me wrong..... it's safe, secure etc etc.......but its not progress (yes you can argue injuries, bad refs, not buying a striker when we had the opportunity, getting 2 donkeys in), and will continue not to be if we carry on with this style of football.
This worrys me, along with the warnings that Warbs is not a man to change or push on that came with him as over weight baggage when he came to Cassa Rangers.
Maybe his team selection, formation intransigence etc wil be his undoing, and i bet that having seen us 'ooop top' fighting for promotion the owners will have started to think 'maybe at last we can possibly look forward to a return on our investment'?
So, i will still be wrong in your eyes, but please try and understand where i'm coming from with this...... Warbs to me, is a man of his day, and that day has passed. And again, i agree, who do you replace him with? There are candidates out there, but maybe not the best, or young blood that needs a chance higher up? i dont know..... and there's the rub.
However, i'm still going with Twist, as i cannot see Warbs turning things around, but i do sincerely hope i am repentant in, say, 5 matches time when we are firmly in the playoffs. If we are, i'll come here and eat humble pie, i promise.
Cheers
Dave |
I think if we had a 'Michael Owen' he would stay here as long as our last 'Michael Owen' , one Raheem Sterling - to suggest there is an individual approaching the ability of those two who has somehow remained under the radar is fanciful at best. | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:34 - Apr 5 with 2433 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 12:19 - Apr 4 by RangersDave |
Well i've really started something here, havnt i?
I didnt mean it to get so divisive and in some places abusive towards me. And as such i'm sorry i did start it.
Let me try and explain where i am coming from a little better.
Do i want to see Warburton go? no, i do not
Do i want to see him stay? yes......but........ he has to change, tippy tappy triangular 'toberlone' footy is all pretty and keeps up the possession average for the stat boys out there, but it has been found out, and found out well by the teams we have played the last few months.
Can or will Warbs change is another matter. he has shown he cannot, and his unwillingess to try a fast pressing game , when we see it does work is strange.
Maybe he hasnt got the players to do that? maybe they are all injured? but.....we are where we are so why not 'blood' a youngster or 2, and give them the experience? Maybe not for a couple of more matches but after then if we are still in a slump?
Now, you have to ask why the situation with the 2 newbies playing instead of better players on the bench. We can only think that a) either Warbs rates them higher than his current players, or B) He's been told to play them. I dont know which to be fair.
Either way, we are not seeing the 'old rangers' from before 3 months ago, or dare i say it post Christmas. And i'm seeing a worrying trend on losing and not playing to our strengths..... maybe we dont have strengths at the moment.
Yes, i know we have financial constraints, and the guys there are working admirably to them, but why oh why are we paying benchwarmers we wont use, or developing players only to not use them in the first team? If they aint good enough, get rid.........if they are, then someone remind me of how old Michael Owen was when he made his England debut? Nah, dont...i know it, it was 18! Do we not have any youngsters like this in our teams?
So, here we are, we have done ok, if mid table at the end of the season is ok .......again! Do you honestly think that Warbs can push on, if so where's the money coming from to get 5-7 new players for next season? And do you think Wabs has the 'nouse' to be able to drop warbs ball and try something new?
At the moment we are slowly sliding to mid table mediocrity again, and dont tell me thats good. Last year we finished 9th, the year before 13th and before that 19th, so not much of an improvement under Warbs, and in fact it could end the season lower than 9th.
Mid table is fine, dont get me wrong..... it's safe, secure etc etc.......but its not progress (yes you can argue injuries, bad refs, not buying a striker when we had the opportunity, getting 2 donkeys in), and will continue not to be if we carry on with this style of football.
This worrys me, along with the warnings that Warbs is not a man to change or push on that came with him as over weight baggage when he came to Cassa Rangers.
Maybe his team selection, formation intransigence etc wil be his undoing, and i bet that having seen us 'ooop top' fighting for promotion the owners will have started to think 'maybe at last we can possibly look forward to a return on our investment'?
So, i will still be wrong in your eyes, but please try and understand where i'm coming from with this...... Warbs to me, is a man of his day, and that day has passed. And again, i agree, who do you replace him with? There are candidates out there, but maybe not the best, or young blood that needs a chance higher up? i dont know..... and there's the rub.
However, i'm still going with Twist, as i cannot see Warbs turning things around, but i do sincerely hope i am repentant in, say, 5 matches time when we are firmly in the playoffs. If we are, i'll come here and eat humble pie, i promise.
Cheers
Dave |
Can't agree that 19th, 13th, 9th and TBA isn't progress, that's just nonsense in my view. | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:38 - Apr 5 with 2426 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:44 - Apr 4 by daveB |
It's slightly different for the manager imo, I think given the way the results are going I'd be surprised if he got a new deal unless we see an upturn in the next few weeks.
Of course if he improves on last season he will probably stay but that not going to be easy without Deing, Willock and now possibly Johansen as well. |
Think injuries might save us from losing the first two, and wages the 3rd one - at least until Jan in the cases of Seny and Chris W. | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:42 - Apr 5 with 2403 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 22:14 - Apr 4 by 1JD |
Agree Danny, it’s a big concern that we have seemingly gone full circle.
- Ageing pros on huge wages
- 2 and 3 year deals for Austin and Johansen (neither whom I want to see in the squad next year)
- Expensive loan signings on more massive wages, Gray and Hendrick
- A £500k transfer fee on Johansen (which probably would fetch the best young player in league 2)
- £4m wage increase LAST season
- Further £multi-million increase THIS season
All in all it’s a significant deviation from our stated youth strategy - and no prospects are currently being brought through our academy/u23 system.
I guess the question is, how has this been allowed to happen, and who is behind it? |
I think the real question is how much of your guesswork is actually true! | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:47 - Apr 5 with 2383 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 23:48 - Apr 4 by daveB |
I've no idea what his wages are but would be surprised if anyone was on 20k a week at the moment |
"I've no idea what his wages are" - guess what Dave, you're not alone, welcome to the club, its pretty large though and includes EVERYONE on here!  | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:49 - Apr 5 with 2373 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 10:15 - Apr 5 by Rs_Holy |
No Pre-Match Video from Warbs.... just saying  |
There is now,,,,just saying! | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 16:44 - Apr 5 with 2304 views | davman |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:57 - Apr 5 by Hunterhoop |
I would definitely like to see De Wijs stay. He’s played very well for us and is fit and playing well in Germany, and he’s our player. |
Said it many times; the defence looked balanced and calmer with Jordy in the middle.
Barbet De Wijs Dunne should be our first choice back three... |  |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 17:40 - Apr 5 with 2213 views | NewBee |
I was struck by a comment 'Northernr' made in another thread, that: "Warburton’s contract was improved in salary last summer, but not in length."
I may be wrong, but that seems an unusual combination, causing me to wonder who was the driving force behind it, Warburton or the club?
My guess is that it was MW. as follows. For one thing, after an impressive start to his tenure at QPR, he must have been in a strong position to push for his own preferred terms.
While the pay rise is desirable in itself (obv) . But assuming the club was happy with him, then surely they'd want to tie him down for longer?
Whereas if he retains a hankering for a bigger/better job elsewhere, he won't have wanted to tie hmself down to a long contract which would require any new club hiring him to pay QPR a decent compensation fee.
While MW has form at Brentford for sniffing after other jobs while doing well in the one he was in, and also allegedly at Glasgow Rangers (though I'm always suspicious of rumours which originate from that club).
More generally, there is a saying in The City that you should always "Sell when you can, not when you have to". And as a formerly successful trader who's now 59 and a relative latecomer to the professional game, Warburton is undoubtedly more keenly aware of the value of timing than any of us.
If I'm right, he must be hoping that his "stock" didn't reach its historic high back in January. | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 18:33 - Apr 5 with 2144 views | dmm |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 17:40 - Apr 5 by NewBee |
I was struck by a comment 'Northernr' made in another thread, that: "Warburton’s contract was improved in salary last summer, but not in length."
I may be wrong, but that seems an unusual combination, causing me to wonder who was the driving force behind it, Warburton or the club?
My guess is that it was MW. as follows. For one thing, after an impressive start to his tenure at QPR, he must have been in a strong position to push for his own preferred terms.
While the pay rise is desirable in itself (obv) . But assuming the club was happy with him, then surely they'd want to tie him down for longer?
Whereas if he retains a hankering for a bigger/better job elsewhere, he won't have wanted to tie hmself down to a long contract which would require any new club hiring him to pay QPR a decent compensation fee.
While MW has form at Brentford for sniffing after other jobs while doing well in the one he was in, and also allegedly at Glasgow Rangers (though I'm always suspicious of rumours which originate from that club).
More generally, there is a saying in The City that you should always "Sell when you can, not when you have to". And as a formerly successful trader who's now 59 and a relative latecomer to the professional game, Warburton is undoubtedly more keenly aware of the value of timing than any of us.
If I'm right, he must be hoping that his "stock" didn't reach its historic high back in January. |
That's an interesting take but there would be good reasons for Warburton signing a longer contract, eg getting a paid up lump sum if sacked early within the contract. As it currently stands the club can release him this summer without a pay out which, if that's what they decided to do, would be a plus for QPR.
I should reiterate that I'm a stick man. (That sounds a bit strange...) |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:40 - Apr 5 with 2027 views | RangersDave |
despite my witterings on here in this thread, i had hoped for an improvement tonight with a win.
But as they say, its the hope that kills yah! | |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:43 - Apr 5 with 1989 views | Toast_R |
Something is clearly not right. The players have downed tools and that means this only ends one way. |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:47 - Apr 5 with 1954 views | ted_hendrix |
Unfortunately he Is a dead man walking, I just don't know anymore. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:49 - Apr 5 with 1908 views | paulparker |
If the plan is to groom Eustace for the job then we may as well let him take over for the rest of the season |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:50 - Apr 5 with 1898 views | Rs_Holy |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:47 - Apr 5 by ted_hendrix |
Unfortunately he Is a dead man walking, I just don't know anymore. |
I’m still sticking… no point getting rid now | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:51 - Apr 5 with 1861 views | Lblock |
Twist and twisted a bit harder now
Wonder if there's any sad f@cks looking to dig up old rantings from the past over the next few weeks?????
Such a shame - best chance in nearly a decade dissolving before our eyes.
no idea whats gone on but how anyone can deny that this is an unhappy camp is beyond me. Fair play he had us going well till December and then a few lucky away wins set us up lovely.
A real shame and another summer of upheave awits |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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