| Putin 22:52 - Mar 3 with 11603 views | raynor94 |
Is it time to call his bluff, he's threatening us with nuclear war, but how much longer can we put up with what he's doing in Ukraine.
If we give him this one, what's next? |  |
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| Putin on 12:02 - Mar 8 with 1421 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 11:48 - Mar 8 by Scotia |
Do you know what, I'm beginning to think some sort of compromise along those lines is the only way to save an awful lot of lives.
Putin cannot get away with this and I think we'll need to strengthen sanctions against Russia, in the medium term at least, to hopefully stop this kind of thing happening again.
He's almost certainly going to wrestle some sort of messy control away from the current Ukrainian government eventually at a cost of a levelled Ukraine, human catastrophe and ongoing battles for many years.
The Ukraine aren't going to stop them without outside help and outside help means WW3. |
Zelenskyy won't like it but it's where it seems to be heading, along with a guarantee of not being allowed into NATO.
It may be a bullet we have to bite but once it's settled maybe the Ukraine really needs to build it's defences up, specially it's air defences and it's anti tank and artillery capabilities, make anybody think twice about crossing their border again.
Maybe these Eastern European countries should leave the EU and NATO and form their own bloc, they can be a trade bloc with a mutual defence pact, a buffer between the West and Russia but also their own best defence against Russia. That may mean anyone east of Germany, Austria and Italy or maybe just the Baltic states, Poland and Ukraine but whatever happens it seems the political map of Europe is being redrawn again because of war, violnce, aggression. People never learn. |  |
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| Putin on 12:23 - Mar 8 with 1399 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Putin on 21:29 - Mar 6 by Dr_Winston |
The thing about this whole situation that I really need to learn more about is why Russia has gone back to being an enemy of NATO, when after the fall of the Soviet Union you'd think they could have been candidates to join themselves.
Have seen vague references to it being as a result over concerns about democratic deficit at the time Putin was taking over, but Turkey is hardly a model democracy any more and they're still members. |
There are many scholars who have written about the history of Russia/Nato and Russia/Ukraine.
Alot of it stems from the verbal agreements given to Russia in 1989-1991 about non expansion of Nato eastwards which they have patently renaged on.
The Russians should have got those agreements in writing, a very major mistake.
Many Americans believe that Putin has felt Russia is threatened by the expansion and the cash that the USA has plowed in to Ukraine, especially in the BioLabs that are there.
They also believe that Putin is using the invasion to disrupt the WEF Great Reset plans, Zelensky being one of the many WEF "new leaders".
There is also the very real question of the neo-nazis in Ukraine which 73 mentioned plus the continued bombardment of the pro-Russian areas for the last few years, which of course the media has not talked about.
I can supply some links to reading material that shows "other views" of what has been going on if you want. | | | |
| Putin on 13:20 - Mar 8 with 1375 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Putin sees himself as a Emperor. He’s the natural successor to Peter and Catherine the great. This has very little to do with NATO or the west. It’s naked imperialism. | | | |
| Putin on 13:42 - Mar 8 with 1357 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Putin on 11:48 - Mar 8 by Scotia |
Do you know what, I'm beginning to think some sort of compromise along those lines is the only way to save an awful lot of lives.
Putin cannot get away with this and I think we'll need to strengthen sanctions against Russia, in the medium term at least, to hopefully stop this kind of thing happening again.
He's almost certainly going to wrestle some sort of messy control away from the current Ukrainian government eventually at a cost of a levelled Ukraine, human catastrophe and ongoing battles for many years.
The Ukraine aren't going to stop them without outside help and outside help means WW3. |
Of course Ukraine could accept his peace offer and give up those areas where mostly pro Russia people live to save thousands of lives. | | | |
| Putin on 14:08 - Mar 8 with 1348 views | Scotia |
| Putin on 13:42 - Mar 8 by A_Fans_Dad |
Of course Ukraine could accept his peace offer and give up those areas where mostly pro Russia people live to save thousands of lives. |
I don't think that accepting that part would cause so many problems. After these events the population in the rest of Ukraine are going to be desperatly trying to join NATO and / or the EU.
It's going to take some negotiation and pressure. | | | |
| Putin on 16:15 - Mar 8 with 1302 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 12:23 - Mar 8 by A_Fans_Dad |
There are many scholars who have written about the history of Russia/Nato and Russia/Ukraine.
Alot of it stems from the verbal agreements given to Russia in 1989-1991 about non expansion of Nato eastwards which they have patently renaged on.
The Russians should have got those agreements in writing, a very major mistake.
Many Americans believe that Putin has felt Russia is threatened by the expansion and the cash that the USA has plowed in to Ukraine, especially in the BioLabs that are there.
They also believe that Putin is using the invasion to disrupt the WEF Great Reset plans, Zelensky being one of the many WEF "new leaders".
There is also the very real question of the neo-nazis in Ukraine which 73 mentioned plus the continued bombardment of the pro-Russian areas for the last few years, which of course the media has not talked about.
I can supply some links to reading material that shows "other views" of what has been going on if you want. |
Oh my god, not this again. You mean this Daria Kaleniak,
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19961314.daria-kaleniuk-boris-johnson-stunned-
Of course you can provide links but these other views are the conspiracy websites.
Zelenskyy said Trudeau had inspired him, no doubt you can provide a link to some site saying they are both WEF?
Yes there are Neo Nazi's in Ukraine but ther are also neo Nazi's in Russia. have you heard of the Sparta battalion? How about "Rusich" or the "Borgen Project"?
https://borgenproject.org/neo-nazis-russia/
Apparently over half (50-70k) the worlds Neo Nazis' are in Russia and German Neo's go to Russia to get paramilitary training. So why is Putin so worried about Neo's in Ukraine, he's not it's just a convenient lie. There are Neo Nazi's in Ukraine but not as many as in Russia.
The bombardment of the pro Russian areas is because Putin has been backing pro Russian separatists, it wasn't an attack it was a retaliation as Russians (including neo Nazis) tried to take over Donetsk and Luhansk.
There is already a great reset going on and it was started by Putin, the geopolitical map will be changed again. | |
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| Putin on 16:44 - Mar 8 with 1289 views | onehunglow |
| Putin on 16:15 - Mar 8 by Catullus |
Oh my god, not this again. You mean this Daria Kaleniak,
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19961314.daria-kaleniuk-boris-johnson-stunned-
Of course you can provide links but these other views are the conspiracy websites.
Zelenskyy said Trudeau had inspired him, no doubt you can provide a link to some site saying they are both WEF?
Yes there are Neo Nazi's in Ukraine but ther are also neo Nazi's in Russia. have you heard of the Sparta battalion? How about "Rusich" or the "Borgen Project"?
https://borgenproject.org/neo-nazis-russia/
Apparently over half (50-70k) the worlds Neo Nazis' are in Russia and German Neo's go to Russia to get paramilitary training. So why is Putin so worried about Neo's in Ukraine, he's not it's just a convenient lie. There are Neo Nazi's in Ukraine but not as many as in Russia.
The bombardment of the pro Russian areas is because Putin has been backing pro Russian separatists, it wasn't an attack it was a retaliation as Russians (including neo Nazis) tried to take over Donetsk and Luhansk.
There is already a great reset going on and it was started by Putin, the geopolitical map will be changed again. |
There were nazis in Ukraine during the Second World War,as there were in Sweden,Norway in particular and friendly Netherlands. All searched for Jews to send to gas chambers
That said,most are not. The lids yiu are seeing being slaughtered are not Nazis and for that reason alone we need to eliminate Putin and indeed communism | |
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| Putin on 22:17 - Mar 8 with 1240 views | DJack |
| Putin on 12:23 - Mar 8 by A_Fans_Dad |
There are many scholars who have written about the history of Russia/Nato and Russia/Ukraine.
Alot of it stems from the verbal agreements given to Russia in 1989-1991 about non expansion of Nato eastwards which they have patently renaged on.
The Russians should have got those agreements in writing, a very major mistake.
Many Americans believe that Putin has felt Russia is threatened by the expansion and the cash that the USA has plowed in to Ukraine, especially in the BioLabs that are there.
They also believe that Putin is using the invasion to disrupt the WEF Great Reset plans, Zelensky being one of the many WEF "new leaders".
There is also the very real question of the neo-nazis in Ukraine which 73 mentioned plus the continued bombardment of the pro-Russian areas for the last few years, which of course the media has not talked about.
I can supply some links to reading material that shows "other views" of what has been going on if you want. |
As ever you post some rubbish.
"Such an agreement was never made. NATO’s door has been open to new members since it was founded in 1949 — and that has never changed. This “Open Door Policy” is enshrined in Article 10 of NATO’s founding treaty, which says “any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic” can apply for membership. Decisions on membership are taken by consensus among all Allies. No treaty signed by the United States, Europe and Russia included provisions on NATO membership.
The idea of NATO expansion beyond a united Germany was not on the agenda in 1989, particularly as the Warsaw Pact still existed. This was confirmed by Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview in 2014: "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either."
Declassified White House transcripts also reveal that, in 1997, Bill Clinton consistently refused Boris Yeltsin's offer of a 'gentlemen's agreement' that no former Soviet Republics would enter NATO: "I can't make commitments on behalf of NATO, and I'm not going to be in the position myself of vetoing NATO expansion with respect to any country, much less letting you or anyone else do so…NATO operates by consensus."
https://web.archive.org/web/20220222223845/ https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm#c203 |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Putin on 23:23 - Mar 8 with 1221 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Putin on 22:17 - Mar 8 by DJack |
As ever you post some rubbish.
"Such an agreement was never made. NATO’s door has been open to new members since it was founded in 1949 — and that has never changed. This “Open Door Policy” is enshrined in Article 10 of NATO’s founding treaty, which says “any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic” can apply for membership. Decisions on membership are taken by consensus among all Allies. No treaty signed by the United States, Europe and Russia included provisions on NATO membership.
The idea of NATO expansion beyond a united Germany was not on the agenda in 1989, particularly as the Warsaw Pact still existed. This was confirmed by Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview in 2014: "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either."
Declassified White House transcripts also reveal that, in 1997, Bill Clinton consistently refused Boris Yeltsin's offer of a 'gentlemen's agreement' that no former Soviet Republics would enter NATO: "I can't make commitments on behalf of NATO, and I'm not going to be in the position myself of vetoing NATO expansion with respect to any country, much less letting you or anyone else do so…NATO operates by consensus."
https://web.archive.org/web/20220222223845/ https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm#c203 |
Well said . It is amazing that some people post blatant lies expext to get away unchallenged.
He posted utter lies during the life saving vaccines rollout and is now posting pro Russian lies. | |
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| Putin on 09:27 - Mar 9 with 1182 views | majorraglan |
I dare say most of the countries who’ve joined NATO have joined on account of their fears of Russian aggression etc, had they not had those concerns they wouldn’t have joined. The Russians crushed pro democratic “revolutions” in Hungary and the old Czechoslovakia in the 50’s and 60’s. | | | |
| Putin on 09:35 - Mar 9 with 1169 views | controversial_jack |
| Putin on 09:27 - Mar 9 by majorraglan |
I dare say most of the countries who’ve joined NATO have joined on account of their fears of Russian aggression etc, had they not had those concerns they wouldn’t have joined. The Russians crushed pro democratic “revolutions” in Hungary and the old Czechoslovakia in the 50’s and 60’s. |
That was 60 and 70 years ago. NATO has changed and become far more pro active. It's time it was disbanded | | | |
| Putin on 09:45 - Mar 9 with 1167 views | Boundy |
| Putin on 09:35 - Mar 9 by controversial_jack |
That was 60 and 70 years ago. NATO has changed and become far more pro active. It's time it was disbanded |
why should it be disbanded ? and if so would you agree that Russia and its environs should also disband its military . because they atm are the bigger threat to world peace . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Putin on 10:05 - Mar 9 with 1163 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 09:35 - Mar 9 by controversial_jack |
That was 60 and 70 years ago. NATO has changed and become far more pro active. It's time it was disbanded |
Far more pro active how exactly? You mean by keeping their doors open to new members as they always have?
NATO certainly hasn't attacked or invaded any other non member countries.
The question was aske a while back, who would win a conventional war between Russia and the USA, has anybody changed their minds now seeing as Russia is having problems overcoming Ukraine and the USA is a far greater challenge?
Looking at the map an despite Putin slaugtering civilians, bombing civilian areas and breaking ceasefires, he still cannot cow the Ukrainians. Indeed, the Ukraine seems to be more than they can handle, 2 Generals now dead (Gerasimov and Sukhovetsky) poor morale with troops apparently deserting, logisitics issues, it seems that the people on here who were so convinced that Russia was unbeatable were far from right. 14 days in and Russia is hardly making any progress and what progress they are making comes at a heavy cost.
What Putin may have thought would be a massive coup for Russia and a message to fear for the West is turning into a massive Albatross around his neck. Increasing protests in Russia against the war, thousands of his own people being arrested and his armies getting more ragged by the day. | |
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| Putin on 12:28 - Mar 9 with 1138 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Putin on 22:17 - Mar 8 by DJack |
As ever you post some rubbish.
"Such an agreement was never made. NATO’s door has been open to new members since it was founded in 1949 — and that has never changed. This “Open Door Policy” is enshrined in Article 10 of NATO’s founding treaty, which says “any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic” can apply for membership. Decisions on membership are taken by consensus among all Allies. No treaty signed by the United States, Europe and Russia included provisions on NATO membership.
The idea of NATO expansion beyond a united Germany was not on the agenda in 1989, particularly as the Warsaw Pact still existed. This was confirmed by Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview in 2014: "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either."
Declassified White House transcripts also reveal that, in 1997, Bill Clinton consistently refused Boris Yeltsin's offer of a 'gentlemen's agreement' that no former Soviet Republics would enter NATO: "I can't make commitments on behalf of NATO, and I'm not going to be in the position myself of vetoing NATO expansion with respect to any country, much less letting you or anyone else do so…NATO operates by consensus."
https://web.archive.org/web/20220222223845/ https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm#c203 |
I was reading this.
https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/02/20/has-nato-reneged-on-a-1991-agreement-with-
British and Canadian sources.
And this
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/russias-belief-in-nato-betrayal-an
And this
https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-
Ans this
https://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/trachtenberg/cv/1990.pdf
So, not my lies are they?
Not alt right conspiracy theory sites either are they? | | | |
| Putin on 12:33 - Mar 9 with 1137 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Putin on 23:23 - Mar 8 by felixstowe_jack |
Well said . It is amazing that some people post blatant lies expext to get away unchallenged.
He posted utter lies during the life saving vaccines rollout and is now posting pro Russian lies. |
So Government statistics, Scientific and Medical Studies and Comments by leading doctors are lies?
You are a nasty piece of work aren't you? | | | |
| Putin (n/t) on 12:41 - Mar 9 with 1130 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Putin on 16:15 - Mar 8 by Catullus |
Oh my god, not this again. You mean this Daria Kaleniak,
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19961314.daria-kaleniuk-boris-johnson-stunned-
Of course you can provide links but these other views are the conspiracy websites.
Zelenskyy said Trudeau had inspired him, no doubt you can provide a link to some site saying they are both WEF?
Yes there are Neo Nazi's in Ukraine but ther are also neo Nazi's in Russia. have you heard of the Sparta battalion? How about "Rusich" or the "Borgen Project"?
https://borgenproject.org/neo-nazis-russia/
Apparently over half (50-70k) the worlds Neo Nazis' are in Russia and German Neo's go to Russia to get paramilitary training. So why is Putin so worried about Neo's in Ukraine, he's not it's just a convenient lie. There are Neo Nazi's in Ukraine but not as many as in Russia.
The bombardment of the pro Russian areas is because Putin has been backing pro Russian separatists, it wasn't an attack it was a retaliation as Russians (including neo Nazis) tried to take over Donetsk and Luhansk.
There is already a great reset going on and it was started by Putin, the geopolitical map will be changed again. |
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| Putin on 12:52 - Mar 9 with 1125 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Putin on 16:15 - Mar 8 by Catullus |
Oh my god, not this again. You mean this Daria Kaleniak,
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19961314.daria-kaleniuk-boris-johnson-stunned-
Of course you can provide links but these other views are the conspiracy websites.
Zelenskyy said Trudeau had inspired him, no doubt you can provide a link to some site saying they are both WEF?
Yes there are Neo Nazi's in Ukraine but ther are also neo Nazi's in Russia. have you heard of the Sparta battalion? How about "Rusich" or the "Borgen Project"?
https://borgenproject.org/neo-nazis-russia/
Apparently over half (50-70k) the worlds Neo Nazis' are in Russia and German Neo's go to Russia to get paramilitary training. So why is Putin so worried about Neo's in Ukraine, he's not it's just a convenient lie. There are Neo Nazi's in Ukraine but not as many as in Russia.
The bombardment of the pro Russian areas is because Putin has been backing pro Russian separatists, it wasn't an attack it was a retaliation as Russians (including neo Nazis) tried to take over Donetsk and Luhansk.
There is already a great reset going on and it was started by Putin, the geopolitical map will be changed again. |
Where did I mention "Daria Kaleniak"?
Do you deny there are US backed Biolabs in the Ukraine?
https://www.weforum.org/people/volodymyr-zelenskyy
https://www.weforum.org/people/justin-trudeau
https://www.weforum.org/people/chrystia-freeland | | | |
| Putin on 16:28 - Mar 9 with 1079 views | Catullus |
Yes I do deny it. Russians have been spreading rumours of "secret American military biolabs" in Ukraine since 2018.
You do know that Pharmaceutical companies have biolabs, a biolab doesn't mean military grade chemical weapons,
https://www.oxfordbiolabs.com/
Those WEF links, you know what I think of WEF, its tinfoil hattery at its finest. Klaus Schwab puts this stuff out to make money and he has made millions. Do you realise Schwab has said that high management fees are wrong yet he takes 1million dollars per year in wages from the WEF that apparently pays no federal taxes. Schwab is taking you all for mugs,
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/how-klaus-schwab-built-a-billionaire-cir
Schwab has also drawn anger for mixing the finances of the not for profit WEF and other for profit business ventures. The WEF awarded a massive contract to USWeb in 1998. After completing the deal Schwab took a board seat at that company and claimed big stock options.
You lap up his stuff and he's making fools of you but you can't see it. At least the rest of us can see our governments lie even if we can't do anything about it but you can't see the lies, its very much wood for the trees time. | |
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| Putin on 17:16 - Mar 9 with 1054 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Putin on 09:35 - Mar 9 by controversial_jack |
That was 60 and 70 years ago. NATO has changed and become far more pro active. It's time it was disbanded |
NATO is a defensive alliance although it did help to stop atrocities in the old Yugoslavia. It bombed Serbia in support of a Unitied Nation resolution to support an independent Kosova. | |
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| Putin on 17:24 - Mar 9 with 1049 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Putin on 12:33 - Mar 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
So Government statistics, Scientific and Medical Studies and Comments by leading doctors are lies?
You are a nasty piece of work aren't you? |
No just some one who listened to the medical and scientific evidence that vaccines save lives. Over 125,000 covoid deaths before the start of the vaccine rollout and around 15,000 In the last 12 months even though second doses were not given to most adults until the end of July. Vaccinations were then rolled out the children and boosted stared.
Now very few covoid deaths even with all restrictions lifted. Why is that?
Do you still believe the anti vaxers lies? | |
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| Putin on 17:48 - Mar 9 with 1042 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Putin on 17:16 - Mar 9 by felixstowe_jack |
NATO is a defensive alliance although it did help to stop atrocities in the old Yugoslavia. It bombed Serbia in support of a Unitied Nation resolution to support an independent Kosova. |
I think it would be completely obvious to anyone with functioning eyes and half a brain that the nato countries have bent over backwards to do everything to avoid a direct war. Yet there are still people who are doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that “the west” are the aggressors and Russias actions are justified. | | | |
| Putin on 18:07 - Mar 9 with 1037 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 17:24 - Mar 9 by felixstowe_jack |
No just some one who listened to the medical and scientific evidence that vaccines save lives. Over 125,000 covoid deaths before the start of the vaccine rollout and around 15,000 In the last 12 months even though second doses were not given to most adults until the end of July. Vaccinations were then rolled out the children and boosted stared.
Now very few covoid deaths even with all restrictions lifted. Why is that?
Do you still believe the anti vaxers lies? |
Yes lots of lies and lots of liars, like this one, Steve Kirsch
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-usa-idUSL1N2QP18K
And lots of people believe these lies and spread them further. | |
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| Putin on 18:25 - Mar 9 with 1030 views | shingle |
| Putin on 17:24 - Mar 9 by felixstowe_jack |
No just some one who listened to the medical and scientific evidence that vaccines save lives. Over 125,000 covoid deaths before the start of the vaccine rollout and around 15,000 In the last 12 months even though second doses were not given to most adults until the end of July. Vaccinations were then rolled out the children and boosted stared.
Now very few covoid deaths even with all restrictions lifted. Why is that?
Do you still believe the anti vaxers lies? |
A Fans Dad has just got owned with that comment. | | | |
| Putin on 19:58 - Mar 9 with 1006 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Putin on 17:24 - Mar 9 by felixstowe_jack |
No just some one who listened to the medical and scientific evidence that vaccines save lives. Over 125,000 covoid deaths before the start of the vaccine rollout and around 15,000 In the last 12 months even though second doses were not given to most adults until the end of July. Vaccinations were then rolled out the children and boosted stared.
Now very few covoid deaths even with all restrictions lifted. Why is that?
Do you still believe the anti vaxers lies? |
You see there you go yet again spreading the lie that I have ever said that Vaccines do not save lives initially. [Post edited 9 Mar 2022 20:07]
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