| Dominic Ball : Club legend 20:24 - Feb 21 with 9338 views | T_Block |
My man of the match yesterday.I thought he was very good in a team that is getting tired.
Tick in the for column.
Can pass like an Arse then like Faurlin-better than most think.
I would really like to know how flashy he is in training
Pushing Todd Kane for club legend
One to enjoy yesterday.... |  | | |  |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 02:35 - Feb 25 with 1733 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 18:53 - Feb 24 by rsonist |
Yes. There are a lot of ways into having a reasonable discussion about Carroll's value and suitability to a side but criticising a textbook deep lying playmaker for not doing what an attacking midfielder, a box to box, or a destructive defensive midfielder do isn't how to start going about it. |
I'm not sure why you consider LTC to be a deep lying playmaker nor do I understand what the textbook definition of this is. IMHO if a midfielder is neither attacking, defending or box-to-box then the role serves no purpose and the player is of little value to the team. Maybe I'm missing something?
In any event, midfield has been a particularly weak area for QPR this season and we simply can't afford the luxury of LTC sitting deep. A player with his passing ability should really be affecting games in the final third. Deploying LTC in a deep role rather belies his lack of physicality. He should address this with gym work rather than seek refuge in a safe position. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 2:49]
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 06:57 - Feb 25 with 1634 views | Malintabuk |
Thought Ball was our best player last night and out of the 11 was the most lively player which is a credit to his fitness and desire
I also noticed last night the amount of times with his back to the goal, how he turned a player and drove forward. OK he probably lost possession 2 times out of 5 mainly tackled, but if he didn't loose possession like that he would not be here but be in the Premier
Think he is a very good player for us and is underrated not only in the amount of work he gets through. He is also quite physical, his booking tally is a testament to that, but a s decent technique. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 6:59]
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 07:17 - Feb 25 with 1628 views | oldmeadoniansR |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 06:57 - Feb 25 by Malintabuk |
Thought Ball was our best player last night and out of the 11 was the most lively player which is a credit to his fitness and desire
I also noticed last night the amount of times with his back to the goal, how he turned a player and drove forward. OK he probably lost possession 2 times out of 5 mainly tackled, but if he didn't loose possession like that he would not be here but be in the Premier
Think he is a very good player for us and is underrated not only in the amount of work he gets through. He is also quite physical, his booking tally is a testament to that, but a s decent technique. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 6:59]
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Totally agree with this. On a number of occasions his first touch allowed him to turn a player and drive down the pitch. I was watching on a small laptop and I just assumed it must be Chair who has that technical ability. Nice to know Ball also has this in his locker. | | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 08:50 - Feb 25 with 1534 views | BostonR |
He is our "water-carrier". We've lacked such a player for quite a few seasons and you can see why he makes the team-sheet each week. Does the basics very well, gets around the pitch and can play in a few positions. |  | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 08:54 - Feb 25 with 1528 views | gazza1 |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 17:36 - Feb 24 by Northernr |
Is it not slightly strange to say Willock isn't good enough because Warburton doesn't pick him, but Carroll who Warburton picks every week is also not good enough? |
Yes it is Norf.....agreed. | | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 08:56 - Feb 25 with 1526 views | Northernr |
Well I had Ball as my QPR MOTM last night for what it's worth. His kind of game and he played it well. |  | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 09:08 - Feb 25 with 1513 views | gazza1 |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 08:56 - Feb 25 by Northernr |
Well I had Ball as my QPR MOTM last night for what it's worth. His kind of game and he played it well. |
Agreed, worked his nuts off as usual and was well up there with MOM. Maybe Dieng??
However, apart from Deing, Barbet, Wallace (yes the Rangers captain), there was not much to talk about in terms of players playing well. I will take a point from them at Deepdale though. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 9:09]
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 09:47 - Feb 25 with 1481 views | gazza1 |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 18:02 - Feb 24 by Antti_Heinola |
Anyone watching earlier this season could see that Carroll was playing very well and was looking for forward balls as often as he could. Would have been fascinating to see him playing in this set up with a more confident side and with Austin scoring. It's all very well saying 'how many assists' but I think there was some stat saying Chair had created more chances then most people in the division, but had not got an assist. The problem with assists is that they rely on someone actually converting.
But let's get it right. Gazza speaks a lot of sense and his posts are always worth a read. But he is a contrarian who enjoys arguing the opposite side of popular opinion. He's a stoker of debate, and nothing wrong with that, but I don't take all his posts seriously - and nor should anyone. I'm sure he doesn't. |
Not really Antti - and I object to some of your comments.....this thread is a Dom Ball thread and I agree with much of what is being said about Ball however, somehow, and it was not me, LTC came into the debate. I believe he is a disadvantage to the team rather than a positive. Supporters see him passing the ball, etc, etc, etc and think he is Mr Wonderful but you know what, he is proper average for us yet so many rate him..... and hopefully my point is clear.
Dont worry Annti......golf back in March so you will be able to have a 'fine time' on here while I annoy my golfing mates and taking their money hopefully. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 10:09]
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 10:09 - Feb 25 with 1447 views | essextaxiboy |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 09:47 - Feb 25 by gazza1 |
Not really Antti - and I object to some of your comments.....this thread is a Dom Ball thread and I agree with much of what is being said about Ball however, somehow, and it was not me, LTC came into the debate. I believe he is a disadvantage to the team rather than a positive. Supporters see him passing the ball, etc, etc, etc and think he is Mr Wonderful but you know what, he is proper average for us yet so many rate him..... and hopefully my point is clear.
Dont worry Annti......golf back in March so you will be able to have a 'fine time' on here while I annoy my golfing mates and taking their money hopefully. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 10:09]
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Ball may have worked his nuts off , he always does .What we didnt do at all last night was pass the ball to each other with accuracy and consistency . Tom Carroll does that .. |  | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 10:16 - Feb 25 with 1430 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 10:09 - Feb 25 by essextaxiboy |
Ball may have worked his nuts off , he always does .What we didnt do at all last night was pass the ball to each other with accuracy and consistency . Tom Carroll does that .. |
Ya, good point. |  |
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 10:21 - Feb 25 with 1417 views | gazza1 |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 10:09 - Feb 25 by essextaxiboy |
Ball may have worked his nuts off , he always does .What we didnt do at all last night was pass the ball to each other with accuracy and consistency . Tom Carroll does that .. |
Yes, agreed, but sadly mostly sideways, backwards and without positivity for around 45-60 minutes (before he tires) which allows opposition time to reform their positions. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 10:22]
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 10:42 - Feb 25 with 1381 views | essextaxiboy |
I get that you think that ,but its factually incorrect as Simmo posted yesterday . | | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 11:29 - Feb 25 with 1327 views | simmo |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 10:21 - Feb 25 by gazza1 |
Yes, agreed, but sadly mostly sideways, backwards and without positivity for around 45-60 minutes (before he tires) which allows opposition time to reform their positions. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 10:22]
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You can keep saying that, but it's not true.
ANYWAY - great from Dom Ball last night, all the best parts of his game on display. I'd love it if he could pass the right side of his man, but I guess we can't have everything :-)
A big shout out for his fitness levels too, he gets stronger as the game goes on and his stamina and availability has saved us this season while all options around him have been unfit or injured. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 11:36 - Feb 25 with 1317 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 09:47 - Feb 25 by gazza1 |
Not really Antti - and I object to some of your comments.....this thread is a Dom Ball thread and I agree with much of what is being said about Ball however, somehow, and it was not me, LTC came into the debate. I believe he is a disadvantage to the team rather than a positive. Supporters see him passing the ball, etc, etc, etc and think he is Mr Wonderful but you know what, he is proper average for us yet so many rate him..... and hopefully my point is clear.
Dont worry Annti......golf back in March so you will be able to have a 'fine time' on here while I annoy my golfing mates and taking their money hopefully. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 10:09]
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assuming you're objecting to the bit where i said you talk a lot of sense? ;)
good luck with the golf! |  |
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 14:48 - Feb 25 with 1230 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 10:09 - Feb 25 by essextaxiboy |
Ball may have worked his nuts off , he always does .What we didnt do at all last night was pass the ball to each other with accuracy and consistency . Tom Carroll does that .. |
Maybe, but this passing was mainly in the defensive third where you're not really hurting the opposition. Moreover, lack of protection for the defence meant that we were regularly conceding 2-3 goals per game.
QPR now employ a more pragmatic approach to games. It may not be as pleasing to the eye but it's a damn sight more effective and means that we won't be making trips to Gillingham and Blackpool next season. | | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 15:37 - Feb 25 with 1173 views | kensalriser |
Gazza has an inherent bias against skilful players so I always take what he says with a pinch of salt. |  |
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 15:40 - Feb 25 with 1165 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 02:35 - Feb 25 by Benny_the_Ball |
I'm not sure why you consider LTC to be a deep lying playmaker nor do I understand what the textbook definition of this is. IMHO if a midfielder is neither attacking, defending or box-to-box then the role serves no purpose and the player is of little value to the team. Maybe I'm missing something?
In any event, midfield has been a particularly weak area for QPR this season and we simply can't afford the luxury of LTC sitting deep. A player with his passing ability should really be affecting games in the final third. Deploying LTC in a deep role rather belies his lack of physicality. He should address this with gym work rather than seek refuge in a safe position. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 2:49]
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By no means am I comparing LTC to either of them, but Pirlo was a Deep Lying Playmaker and he tore a strong England side apart in 2015 and Ray Wilkins was a Deep Lying Playmaker too at the end of his career for us.
You won't get many goals or assists from these players but the pass just before the assist usually comes from them.
I'd say LTC is unlucky that that his time with us so far has come during bad patches but I don't think he is the cause of them. |  | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 16:23 - Feb 25 with 1132 views | francisbowles |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 15:40 - Feb 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
By no means am I comparing LTC to either of them, but Pirlo was a Deep Lying Playmaker and he tore a strong England side apart in 2015 and Ray Wilkins was a Deep Lying Playmaker too at the end of his career for us.
You won't get many goals or assists from these players but the pass just before the assist usually comes from them.
I'd say LTC is unlucky that that his time with us so far has come during bad patches but I don't think he is the cause of them. |
Paragraph two is a very good point Baz and supports the stats about Carroll's positive passing. | | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 02:26 - Feb 26 with 1041 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 15:40 - Feb 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
By no means am I comparing LTC to either of them, but Pirlo was a Deep Lying Playmaker and he tore a strong England side apart in 2015 and Ray Wilkins was a Deep Lying Playmaker too at the end of his career for us.
You won't get many goals or assists from these players but the pass just before the assist usually comes from them.
I'd say LTC is unlucky that that his time with us so far has come during bad patches but I don't think he is the cause of them. |
You certainly can't compare them to LTC!!! Pirlo and Wilkins moved deeper towards the end of their careers and both played professionally until circa 40. LTC has made a career of not getting stuck in and he's still only 28. [Post edited 26 Feb 2021 2:37]
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 02:36 - Feb 26 with 1037 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 16:23 - Feb 25 by francisbowles |
Paragraph two is a very good point Baz and supports the stats about Carroll's positive passing. |
Nonsense. Pass completion rate may be decent but there are no statistics to support the notion that the majority of LTC's passes are pre-assists. It is utter piffle to suggest that the pass before the assist is the key pass in a team move and try to quantify a player's worth accordingly. That is truly clutching at straws. There are statistics, damn statistics and lies. | | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 03:27 - Feb 26 with 1016 views | rsonist |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 02:36 - Feb 26 by Benny_the_Ball |
Nonsense. Pass completion rate may be decent but there are no statistics to support the notion that the majority of LTC's passes are pre-assists. It is utter piffle to suggest that the pass before the assist is the key pass in a team move and try to quantify a player's worth accordingly. That is truly clutching at straws. There are statistics, damn statistics and lies. |
https://statsbomb.com/2018/08/introducing-xgchain-and-xgbuildup/ |  | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 07:23 - Feb 26 with 946 views | bakerloo8 |
Decent debate.
Ball is very QPR. Limited, hardworking but sprinkled with a bit of stardust mixed with Samba Diakite madness. Always gives 100% and should probably stay with us until his legs fall off.
Tom Carrol is more complex. I admit to not being a fan of him in his first stint but think he has had a decent season up until his injury. I would extend his deal for another year if financially viable.
I think it was Robert Prosinecki who said top midfielders who sit in front of the back 4 and play short passes there are cowards and I agree that TC should be I influencing the game more up the pitch where his passing can hurt teams, his assists and goals scored is nowhere near it should be, Sam Field player about 10 minutes before getting into the box and scoring.
Pirlo and Wilkkns comparison are fair in the position he plays, but unfair on the level of quality and influence these players had. Neat and tidy Tom, but let's see more fella. |  | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 08:19 - Feb 26 with 923 views | gazza1 |
Not really Kensal,,,,,,,,Are you suggesting LTC is skillful?? I certainly do not think he is, pass the ball in his own half without pressure, he an do.
BTW Dom Ball was excellent at Preston....... | | | |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 09:40 - Feb 26 with 888 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 08:19 - Feb 26 by gazza1 |
Not really Kensal,,,,,,,,Are you suggesting LTC is skillful?? I certainly do not think he is, pass the ball in his own half without pressure, he an do.
BTW Dom Ball was excellent at Preston....... |
If you're saying that Carroll is not skillful, the you've taken this wind-up a bit too far, Gazz.
Still, you got decent mileage out of it. | |
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| Dominic Ball : Club legend on 09:59 - Feb 26 with 868 views | Myke |
Dom Ball reminds of Karl Henry, very limited, but totally honest and totally committed to giving his all on the pitch.
With Carroll (and I've made this point previously) his ball retention is of a very high standard. The trouble is (was), before Austin and Johansen's arrival, the options in front of him were limited, with so little movement off the ball, that he often was forced to pass sideways or backwards, just so we would keep the ball. Ironically, since he got injured, this situation has improved significantly. I believe he would thrive in our current set up. | | | |
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