| Decolonised curriculums incoming! 18:11 - Feb 5 with 5081 views | Highjack |
Great news for the young people of the future. Chaucer is gone, no more Wordsworth. Kipling? Pah we spit in Kipling’s face. More focus on ethnicity and sexuality. What a great time to be alive!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-55860810
Also isn’t Leicester university named after Simon De Montfort? Wasn’t he a proper wrong un when it came to the treatment of Jews? |  |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 19:17 - Feb 5 with 3861 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
De Montfort is the old Polytechnic I think, I saw U2 there in the eighties no one was speaking French or checking my religion, maybe there's a statue we can tear down? ( of de Montfort not Bono ). |  |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 19:58 - Feb 5 with 3837 views | YrAlarch |
Apparently Imperial College, London, has stopped using its Latin motto because it refers to "the empire". There is a certain irony there. |  | | |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 20:09 - Feb 5 with 3826 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
UCL Medical School is no longer including studies of the large intestine because of its colonial links. | |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 22:45 - Feb 5 with 3785 views | Kilkennyjack |
What about our welsh history ? |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 23:03 - Feb 5 with 3780 views | Highjack |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 22:45 - Feb 5 by Kilkennyjack |
What about our welsh history ? |
Sorry butt. Diversity and ethnicity comes first. This is the world you wanted. | |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 23:10 - Feb 5 with 3780 views | Lohengrin |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 22:45 - Feb 5 by Kilkennyjack |
What about our welsh history ? |
If they can’t cope with Chaucer how do you think they would get on with Taliesin or Aneirin?
Reading between the lines of all this guff about “decolonisation” the reality behind the minimal take-up is that middle-English is too exacting a discipline for a polytechnic.
Has anybody here read Chaucer in the original? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 23:36 - Feb 5 with 3762 views | Professor |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 23:10 - Feb 5 by Lohengrin |
If they can’t cope with Chaucer how do you think they would get on with Taliesin or Aneirin?
Reading between the lines of all this guff about “decolonisation” the reality behind the minimal take-up is that middle-English is too exacting a discipline for a polytechnic.
Has anybody here read Chaucer in the original? |
It’s not the poly Loh. That’s De Montfort. Leicester is the ‘University’. The reality is a bit more complex and involves cuts to academic posts (something we are living with too).
Personally I don’t get why English Literature remains compulsory for GCSE when coding is not or that the current English Language curriculum requires analysis of 19th century literature.’
Should be taught not examined. Nearly killed my love of reading until I found more modern literature that I enjoyed. | | | |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 23:47 - Feb 5 with 3757 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 23:10 - Feb 5 by Lohengrin |
If they can’t cope with Chaucer how do you think they would get on with Taliesin or Aneirin?
Reading between the lines of all this guff about “decolonisation” the reality behind the minimal take-up is that middle-English is too exacting a discipline for a polytechnic.
Has anybody here read Chaucer in the original? |
‘What that Aprill with his shoures soote ‘
will remain imprinted on my brain for the rest of my life.
Had to do it for A level English.
Btw - an interesting fact I read this week was that Chaucer was John of Gaunt’s brother-in-law.
The Reverend Richard Coles tweeted about it. A great twitter follow btw - full of interesting and varied musings, plus, of course, he was a member of one the great bands of our youth. | | | |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 00:42 - Feb 6 with 3733 views | Lohengrin |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 23:47 - Feb 5 by londonlisa2001 |
‘What that Aprill with his shoures soote ‘
will remain imprinted on my brain for the rest of my life.
Had to do it for A level English.
Btw - an interesting fact I read this week was that Chaucer was John of Gaunt’s brother-in-law.
The Reverend Richard Coles tweeted about it. A great twitter follow btw - full of interesting and varied musings, plus, of course, he was a member of one the great bands of our youth. |
Ha! I thought of you as I was typing that...  Same age, same curriculum.
Yes, I knew he was Chaucer’s brother-in-law. He may also have been the real father of Chaucer’s supposed son, Tom? A mucky lot the Medieval! | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 00:53 - Feb 6 with 3730 views | Lohengrin |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 23:36 - Feb 5 by Professor |
It’s not the poly Loh. That’s De Montfort. Leicester is the ‘University’. The reality is a bit more complex and involves cuts to academic posts (something we are living with too).
Personally I don’t get why English Literature remains compulsory for GCSE when coding is not or that the current English Language curriculum requires analysis of 19th century literature.’
Should be taught not examined. Nearly killed my love of reading until I found more modern literature that I enjoyed. |
Apologies, Prof. I stand corrected, De Montfort was mentioned at the start of the thread and I took my lead from that.
Why would you not see 19th century literature as important? That’s Dickens and Dostoevsky; Goethe and Gogol; Wilde and Wells. Essential, seminal texts. Good grief that’s Byron! | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 10:21 - Feb 6 with 3656 views | Professor |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 00:53 - Feb 6 by Lohengrin |
Apologies, Prof. I stand corrected, De Montfort was mentioned at the start of the thread and I took my lead from that.
Why would you not see 19th century literature as important? That’s Dickens and Dostoevsky; Goethe and Gogol; Wilde and Wells. Essential, seminal texts. Good grief that’s Byron! |
Not unimportant, but culturally knowledge of literature and arts is still seen as ‘high brow’ and educated whereas maths and science still are seen as ‘geeky’. Poor reading and writing ability is seen as people being ‘thick’ and socially unacceptable whereas poor mathematical ability is laughed off.
This is not an anti-art diatribe, far from it as this is what enriches life, makes us civilised. But does not drive the fundamentals like SET subjects. And again, a pertinent question,
Is why are we governed by those who don’t understand even basic concepts (this week has shown this in the failure to recognise viruses mutate-especially under an evolutionary pressure like immunity)? The 19th century literature analysis (remember now in the area to develop oral and written communication) is a difficult one to square with my autistic teenage son. ‘Why am I doing this? It’s no use to me’. I tell him it’s the policy set down in the reform of GCSEs. One decided by Michael Gove. A former journalist who read English at Oxford. Therein lies the issue to me. Formal teaching of literature destroys it for too many. It should be covered, like RE and other areas, but informally -reading plays Shakespeare and Shaw in my case, was an exercise in futility, but Twelfth Night and Arms and the Man are great on the stage. Anyway, it’s an opinion. You may well disagree with an equally valid arguemebt | | | |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 10:45 - Feb 6 with 3644 views | onehunglow |
Let's face it,many professing love of the classics would ,in all honesty, never admit they are essentially boring and pretentious works. Shakespears plays !.Dear God.
As to what is "well written", much that is seen as such is beyond tedium but often matters that pertain most to us are "badly written" trash BUT it entertains us.
What is good literature is often the domain of pure snobbery | |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 10:49 - Feb 6 with 3641 views | Catullus |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 10:21 - Feb 6 by Professor |
Not unimportant, but culturally knowledge of literature and arts is still seen as ‘high brow’ and educated whereas maths and science still are seen as ‘geeky’. Poor reading and writing ability is seen as people being ‘thick’ and socially unacceptable whereas poor mathematical ability is laughed off.
This is not an anti-art diatribe, far from it as this is what enriches life, makes us civilised. But does not drive the fundamentals like SET subjects. And again, a pertinent question,
Is why are we governed by those who don’t understand even basic concepts (this week has shown this in the failure to recognise viruses mutate-especially under an evolutionary pressure like immunity)? The 19th century literature analysis (remember now in the area to develop oral and written communication) is a difficult one to square with my autistic teenage son. ‘Why am I doing this? It’s no use to me’. I tell him it’s the policy set down in the reform of GCSEs. One decided by Michael Gove. A former journalist who read English at Oxford. Therein lies the issue to me. Formal teaching of literature destroys it for too many. It should be covered, like RE and other areas, but informally -reading plays Shakespeare and Shaw in my case, was an exercise in futility, but Twelfth Night and Arms and the Man are great on the stage. Anyway, it’s an opinion. You may well disagree with an equally valid arguemebt |
In my not so well read, uneducated, low brow opinion....well I agree with you prof. Education needs to be more relevant to the 21st Century. Maths and science are central to that, I think.
Saying that, it beggars belief that kids that still struggle to read and write properly can make it to school leaving age without something being done.
If you can't read and write to a minimally good standard surely you will struggle with other subjects?
We could get by without knowing of Dickens but how do people keep the world running if they can't use or repair the technology the world runs on, how does medicine keep advancing? | |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 11:18 - Feb 6 with 3636 views | Lohengrin |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 10:21 - Feb 6 by Professor |
Not unimportant, but culturally knowledge of literature and arts is still seen as ‘high brow’ and educated whereas maths and science still are seen as ‘geeky’. Poor reading and writing ability is seen as people being ‘thick’ and socially unacceptable whereas poor mathematical ability is laughed off.
This is not an anti-art diatribe, far from it as this is what enriches life, makes us civilised. But does not drive the fundamentals like SET subjects. And again, a pertinent question,
Is why are we governed by those who don’t understand even basic concepts (this week has shown this in the failure to recognise viruses mutate-especially under an evolutionary pressure like immunity)? The 19th century literature analysis (remember now in the area to develop oral and written communication) is a difficult one to square with my autistic teenage son. ‘Why am I doing this? It’s no use to me’. I tell him it’s the policy set down in the reform of GCSEs. One decided by Michael Gove. A former journalist who read English at Oxford. Therein lies the issue to me. Formal teaching of literature destroys it for too many. It should be covered, like RE and other areas, but informally -reading plays Shakespeare and Shaw in my case, was an exercise in futility, but Twelfth Night and Arms and the Man are great on the stage. Anyway, it’s an opinion. You may well disagree with an equally valid arguemebt |
There was a thread on here a year or so back about Grammar Schools, Prof. On that thread Ebo and I were discussing the skills deficit, I attributed much of it to the demise of the Secondary Modern and its vocational focus. I went on to say that as far as universities go, with an eye on immediate needs in a time of financial retrenchment, the subjects that ought to be completely free, wholly subsidised, were those that came under the umbrella of ‘Science and Mathematics.’ I don’t disagree with you at all on their central importance, far from it. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 11:22 - Feb 6 with 3634 views | Lohengrin |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 10:45 - Feb 6 by onehunglow |
Let's face it,many professing love of the classics would ,in all honesty, never admit they are essentially boring and pretentious works. Shakespears plays !.Dear God.
As to what is "well written", much that is seen as such is beyond tedium but often matters that pertain most to us are "badly written" trash BUT it entertains us.
What is good literature is often the domain of pure snobbery |
I disagree with that, mate. Let’s take Shakespeare: it’s way wide of the mark to see his work as elitist; his plays were written to be performed for ordinary folk, to bring some colour and excitement to lives that otherwise consisted of hard slog. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 11:31 - Feb 6 with 3632 views | Yossarian |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 23:10 - Feb 5 by Lohengrin |
If they can’t cope with Chaucer how do you think they would get on with Taliesin or Aneirin?
Reading between the lines of all this guff about “decolonisation” the reality behind the minimal take-up is that middle-English is too exacting a discipline for a polytechnic.
Has anybody here read Chaucer in the original? |
Uh, anyone who did A level English, certainly in the Seventies and early Eighties anyway. |  |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 11:52 - Feb 6 with 3627 views | Professor |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 11:18 - Feb 6 by Lohengrin |
There was a thread on here a year or so back about Grammar Schools, Prof. On that thread Ebo and I were discussing the skills deficit, I attributed much of it to the demise of the Secondary Modern and its vocational focus. I went on to say that as far as universities go, with an eye on immediate needs in a time of financial retrenchment, the subjects that ought to be completely free, wholly subsidised, were those that came under the umbrella of ‘Science and Mathematics.’ I don’t disagree with you at all on their central importance, far from it. |
Well Loh, there is a case that the current system has brought expectation of University education to many. However, that is now too often a sausage-factory approach. Too many mediocre courses, too many mediocre graduates. Many areas have become graduate professions, when working with day release for HNC and professional qualifications that were usually at Masters level gave better skills and knowledge. I don’t disagree about universities. The current structure is bonkers. Can’t wait to retire as soon as I can afford to. | | | |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:39 - Feb 6 with 3607 views | Lohengrin |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 11:31 - Feb 6 by Yossarian |
Uh, anyone who did A level English, certainly in the Seventies and early Eighties anyway. |
Which make about three or four of us on here? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:42 - Feb 6 with 3604 views | onehunglow |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 11:22 - Feb 6 by Lohengrin |
I disagree with that, mate. Let’s take Shakespeare: it’s way wide of the mark to see his work as elitist; his plays were written to be performed for ordinary folk, to bring some colour and excitement to lives that otherwise consisted of hard slog. |
And you are magnificent in how you disagree ..
I stand by every word.
The classics are arcane for most but like Ballet,the snob value is more important | |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:43 - Feb 6 with 3601 views | Professor |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:39 - Feb 6 by Lohengrin |
Which make about three or four of us on here? |
Not me. Biology,, Physics and Chemistry | | | |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:48 - Feb 6 with 3599 views | Lohengrin |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:42 - Feb 6 by onehunglow |
And you are magnificent in how you disagree ..
I stand by every word.
The classics are arcane for most but like Ballet,the snob value is more important |
Yes the language is arcane but there are popular modern interpretations that make them entirely accessible for everybody.
If you happen across Stephen Fry’s ‘Troy’ pick up a copy. It’s not expensive at all for a hardback, about a tenner. I’m sure you’d enjoy it. The themes are timeless: love and loss, loyalty and betrayal, it’s all in there. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:50 - Feb 6 with 3597 views | Lohengrin |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:43 - Feb 6 by Professor |
Not me. Biology,, Physics and Chemistry |
It served you well. You’ve travelled to places you’d never have experienced otherwise, made friends you’d never have met. [Post edited 6 Feb 2021 12:52]
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:54 - Feb 6 with 3592 views | Professor |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:50 - Feb 6 by Lohengrin |
It served you well. You’ve travelled to places you’d never have experienced otherwise, made friends you’d never have met. [Post edited 6 Feb 2021 12:52]
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But also did the ‘Aeneid’ for ‘O’ level. Oddly preferred the Latin poetry.
But yes, it has. Seen and experienced so many places and met so many people. It’s been a real privilege | | | |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 13:02 - Feb 6 with 3587 views | onehunglow |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 12:48 - Feb 6 by Lohengrin |
Yes the language is arcane but there are popular modern interpretations that make them entirely accessible for everybody.
If you happen across Stephen Fry’s ‘Troy’ pick up a copy. It’s not expensive at all for a hardback, about a tenner. I’m sure you’d enjoy it. The themes are timeless: love and loss, loyalty and betrayal, it’s all in there. |
I might well do that Loh.
Thanks for the riposte | |
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| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 14:11 - Feb 6 with 3560 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Decolonised curriculums incoming! on 10:21 - Feb 6 by Professor |
Not unimportant, but culturally knowledge of literature and arts is still seen as ‘high brow’ and educated whereas maths and science still are seen as ‘geeky’. Poor reading and writing ability is seen as people being ‘thick’ and socially unacceptable whereas poor mathematical ability is laughed off.
This is not an anti-art diatribe, far from it as this is what enriches life, makes us civilised. But does not drive the fundamentals like SET subjects. And again, a pertinent question,
Is why are we governed by those who don’t understand even basic concepts (this week has shown this in the failure to recognise viruses mutate-especially under an evolutionary pressure like immunity)? The 19th century literature analysis (remember now in the area to develop oral and written communication) is a difficult one to square with my autistic teenage son. ‘Why am I doing this? It’s no use to me’. I tell him it’s the policy set down in the reform of GCSEs. One decided by Michael Gove. A former journalist who read English at Oxford. Therein lies the issue to me. Formal teaching of literature destroys it for too many. It should be covered, like RE and other areas, but informally -reading plays Shakespeare and Shaw in my case, was an exercise in futility, but Twelfth Night and Arms and the Man are great on the stage. Anyway, it’s an opinion. You may well disagree with an equally valid arguemebt |
If we don’t have the arts, I’m not certain why we need the medicine and science as there’s little reason to keep us all alive...
I suspect the fundamental problem is that many subjects, whether they be maths or English, are badly taught. They don’t grip the imagination.
It’s incredible the difference an inspiring teacher can make. I remember studying A level history. One of my teachers was perfectly fine but dull. One was fantastic and inspiring and really lit a flame in us (or in me at least) to try to find out more. Both English teachers for A level were uninspiring. Not bad, just not inspiring. Thankfully I had then, as I do now, a love of reading. But I can’t say that O of A level English did anything to encourage any sort of love whatsoever of Shakespeare (for example). It was a chore to get through. Not a great lover now to be honest.
The subject I have been gutted I didn’t study since I’ve been older, is Latin. They’d stopped it in our school by my time (only by a year or so). I have often thought it would be an incredibly useful tool.
I guess that what is deemed useful or not depends on your life. For me, I always believed the most utterly pointless subject I studied was geography. | | | |
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