| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm 14:21 - May 11 with 19706 views | aleanddale |
How well do you think Boris came across on Sunday night?.
Bit bizarre that instead of making things crystal clear and asking for another push together the whole charade was shrouded in ambiguity.
5/10 from me. |  | | |  |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 14:32 - May 11 with 7059 views | D_Alien |
We're in a very ambiguous phase of an ambiguous pandemic, it's the nature of things
Learning to live with ambiguity isn't easy, but perhaps necessary
Having said that, he made an error in his "return to work today" request, but tbf there will be much more detail in the 50-page document he's presenting to Parliament later this afternoon
I'd say 6.5/10 |  |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 14:44 - May 11 with 7028 views | DaleiLama |
I'd give him 5/10 too. He should have been advised to make even more generalisations and say very little at all. I would have gone for "we are fighting and winning the first battle, but a war may still lie ahead of us and thank-you to all who are helping", followed by revealing all in more detail today. Telling folk to go back to work on Sunday night, with a reduced transport service, and walk to work if possible? Stay alert? I think he did more harm than good. Not bashing for bashings sake because he had an almost impossible task, but his demeanour came across as wrong and retrospective analysis of "sending cannon fodder back to the front line" (heard on the radio this morning) has done him no favours. Ten minutes to give broad brush measures created more questions than it answered. Then again, DA makes a very valid point - in many cases, there are no definitive answers. Just ambiguity. Sometimes, the only questions you can answer are the ones you know the answer to. |  |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 14:58 - May 11 with 7008 views | isitme |
The main problem was not releasing the guideline documents in advance of his announcement. Having just read this document things are much clearer with clear timelines for specific activities.
This provides a bit more light at the end of the tunnel and gives people a bit more hope, as without hope the lockdown will not last. Already people near where I live have being having people round their house, which I can understand as most people just want to be able to see their family and the lock down is extremely difficult from a mental health perspective. From reading the new guidelines my son may be able to go back to nursery (and actually play with another child for the first time in 10 weeks) and possible see his grandma as part of a 'bubble' in another few weeks. Live sport, behind closed doors may take place sometime in June and in July we might even be able to go to a restaurant! |  | | |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 15:03 - May 11 with 6993 views | foreverhopefulDale |
Telling people to go back to work before the employers have made suitable adaptations to their workplaces is criminal. The government should make it clear that any employer due to having to make adaptations to make the workplace as safe as possible, will get government help if they need to have employees going back to work part time, in order to make their wages up.
I think the new government message is muddled, after being spot on. Why on earth have they not given the go ahead for shops and garden centres to open with social distancing in place? They employ people too. The Welsh government have made some sensible adaptations. |  |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 15:26 - May 11 with 6960 views | DaleiLama |
It could be a lot worse …….. we may have to listen to this on a daily basis?!?
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 15:33 - May 11 with 6950 views | ChaffRAFC |
Last night will have been one of the most watched public announcements in history with a huge majority wanting to know what the score was with seeing family and friends and that aspect of this wasn't even mentioned. Not in any timeline prediction of any phase and it left everyone needing answers. Selfishly, this is the only thing I can think about at the moment.
More has been said today in the document that's been released but there's still too many questions.
As for his appearance on Sunday night - 3/10 |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 15:39 - May 11 with 6923 views | isitme |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 15:33 - May 11 by ChaffRAFC |
Last night will have been one of the most watched public announcements in history with a huge majority wanting to know what the score was with seeing family and friends and that aspect of this wasn't even mentioned. Not in any timeline prediction of any phase and it left everyone needing answers. Selfishly, this is the only thing I can think about at the moment.
More has been said today in the document that's been released but there's still too many questions.
As for his appearance on Sunday night - 3/10 |
I suspect for many people it is the only thing they can think of. Everyone will be wanting to know when they are likely to be able to do certain things and each of these will be different for each person. | | | |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 15:40 - May 11 with 6922 views | rochdaleriddler |
1/10 for me, not discussed with Cabinet, or other leaders in this country and in wales, NI and Scotland. Led to employers telling employees to get back to work, public transport still on lockdown timetables, leading to overcrowding in some places. The guidelines for employers issued after the broadcast. Rabb then saying Boris said go back to work from Wednesday ( he didn’t). I am well aware that people can’t sit at home forever, but office workers can by and large keep themselves safe at home. The people suffering the highest death rates are those in construction and jobs like Bus driving and Chefs(5x doctors). As more of them go back, many more will die. |  |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 15:42 - May 11 with 6916 views | DaleiLama |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 14:58 - May 11 by isitme |
The main problem was not releasing the guideline documents in advance of his announcement. Having just read this document things are much clearer with clear timelines for specific activities.
This provides a bit more light at the end of the tunnel and gives people a bit more hope, as without hope the lockdown will not last. Already people near where I live have being having people round their house, which I can understand as most people just want to be able to see their family and the lock down is extremely difficult from a mental health perspective. From reading the new guidelines my son may be able to go back to nursery (and actually play with another child for the first time in 10 weeks) and possible see his grandma as part of a 'bubble' in another few weeks. Live sport, behind closed doors may take place sometime in June and in July we might even be able to go to a restaurant! |
I understand the need for hope as much as anyone, but the flip side of hope has the potential to be an even darker place, until a vaccine is found. The tweet below was updated to 40 cases on the same day (by linked tweet). When you read things like this, "only" having ~200k cases in the UK seems almost remarkable by comparison.
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 15:51 - May 11 with 6882 views | BigDaveMyCock |
I am still none the wiser as to what ‘stay alert’ is supposed to mean. | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 16:12 - May 11 with 6849 views | DaleiLama |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 15:51 - May 11 by BigDaveMyCock |
I am still none the wiser as to what ‘stay alert’ is supposed to mean. |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 17:20 - May 11 with 6768 views | tony_roch975 |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 14:58 - May 11 by isitme |
The main problem was not releasing the guideline documents in advance of his announcement. Having just read this document things are much clearer with clear timelines for specific activities.
This provides a bit more light at the end of the tunnel and gives people a bit more hope, as without hope the lockdown will not last. Already people near where I live have being having people round their house, which I can understand as most people just want to be able to see their family and the lock down is extremely difficult from a mental health perspective. From reading the new guidelines my son may be able to go back to nursery (and actually play with another child for the first time in 10 weeks) and possible see his grandma as part of a 'bubble' in another few weeks. Live sport, behind closed doors may take place sometime in June and in July we might even be able to go to a restaurant! |
Yes, the attempt to bypass Parliament with 'vague' addresses to the nation is a dangerous trend. I think your son can see his grandma from Wed but only outdoors, on his own and with 2 mtrs distance. I doubt schools will be able to organise physical distancing of nursery age children though without which workers' safety can't be guaranteed. Any opening of restaurants will likely be only outdoors and with distancing and since that will lose the business money I doubt much of that. In the end it's either like this for another couple of years or we take the risk now, open up those businesses/facilities workers are willing to staff and accept some level of increase in infections and deaths. | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 17:34 - May 11 with 6743 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 16:12 - May 11 by DaleiLama |
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Sorry Soph, it's 90 +3 (of 95 mins) at Dale.....but we know what you mean
We were always told "Stay Alert.....Britain needs lerts!" | | | |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 17:49 - May 11 with 6716 views | isitme |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 17:20 - May 11 by tony_roch975 |
Yes, the attempt to bypass Parliament with 'vague' addresses to the nation is a dangerous trend. I think your son can see his grandma from Wed but only outdoors, on his own and with 2 mtrs distance. I doubt schools will be able to organise physical distancing of nursery age children though without which workers' safety can't be guaranteed. Any opening of restaurants will likely be only outdoors and with distancing and since that will lose the business money I doubt much of that. In the end it's either like this for another couple of years or we take the risk now, open up those businesses/facilities workers are willing to staff and accept some level of increase in infections and deaths. |
There is no chance of young children, or even older children social distancing. Coincidentally when we were on our daily walk I saw the boss of the nursery my son attends which is still currently open for children of key workers who cannot make alternative arrangements. For what it's worth she said that none of the kids or staff have been infected. If they open again on June 1st then I am more than happy for him to attend. I would argue that not sending him in would be a greater risk to his mental health than any risk associated with Covid-19. I suppose that is my choice based on the evidence that I have seen and my judgement of likely risk.
Members of staff will also be able to base their own decisions on risk, although probably and unfortunately financial considerations will impact this eventually.
As a country we cannot stay like this for another two years and where possible people have to be responsible enough to make their own decisions in line with the guidelines. There will be an increase in infections whenever there is a relaxation of restrictions but as long as the health service is not overwhelmed then that is the main thing. In the medium to long term the more people can make their own choices the better.
Although every death is sad for the person's family and friends the perspective is that 1% of deaths have been people under the age of 60 without pre existing health conditions. The vast majority of people who contract Covid-19 will not require hospital treatment and even more will make a recovery from the virus. Now that is not to belittle those who are at risk, as there are many who post on here who fall into that category, but for most of society Covid-19 is a nasty virus from which if they contracted it they would recover. [Post edited 11 May 2020 17:52]
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 17:57 - May 11 with 6691 views | 442Dale |
Last night’s update on tv illustrated that the Prime Minister was watching the film on BBC1 the evening before. |  |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 18:08 - May 11 with 6666 views | D_Alien |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 17:57 - May 11 by 442Dale |
Last night’s update on tv illustrated that the Prime Minister was watching the film on BBC1 the evening before. |
Close, but no cigar | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 18:19 - May 11 with 6643 views | tony_roch975 |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 17:49 - May 11 by isitme |
There is no chance of young children, or even older children social distancing. Coincidentally when we were on our daily walk I saw the boss of the nursery my son attends which is still currently open for children of key workers who cannot make alternative arrangements. For what it's worth she said that none of the kids or staff have been infected. If they open again on June 1st then I am more than happy for him to attend. I would argue that not sending him in would be a greater risk to his mental health than any risk associated with Covid-19. I suppose that is my choice based on the evidence that I have seen and my judgement of likely risk.
Members of staff will also be able to base their own decisions on risk, although probably and unfortunately financial considerations will impact this eventually.
As a country we cannot stay like this for another two years and where possible people have to be responsible enough to make their own decisions in line with the guidelines. There will be an increase in infections whenever there is a relaxation of restrictions but as long as the health service is not overwhelmed then that is the main thing. In the medium to long term the more people can make their own choices the better.
Although every death is sad for the person's family and friends the perspective is that 1% of deaths have been people under the age of 60 without pre existing health conditions. The vast majority of people who contract Covid-19 will not require hospital treatment and even more will make a recovery from the virus. Now that is not to belittle those who are at risk, as there are many who post on here who fall into that category, but for most of society Covid-19 is a nasty virus from which if they contracted it they would recover. [Post edited 11 May 2020 17:52]
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that's a very clear and justifiable approach and I agree about distancing, the likely increase in infections and the (less visible) health costs of the lockdown, but what happens if there aren't enough willing to staff the schools, however much the financial pressure, or the schools are only open for your son one day in three or few parents take your approach and so there aren't enough workers to fully reboot the economy - do we accept a continuing economic hit, or make it illegal to refuse to work or keep children off school?
The issue is always that one person's responsible decision on the risk (however much statistically low) is another person's loss of free choice - those at risk may include your son's grandma? | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 19:22 - May 11 with 6567 views | isitme |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 18:19 - May 11 by tony_roch975 |
that's a very clear and justifiable approach and I agree about distancing, the likely increase in infections and the (less visible) health costs of the lockdown, but what happens if there aren't enough willing to staff the schools, however much the financial pressure, or the schools are only open for your son one day in three or few parents take your approach and so there aren't enough workers to fully reboot the economy - do we accept a continuing economic hit, or make it illegal to refuse to work or keep children off school?
The issue is always that one person's responsible decision on the risk (however much statistically low) is another person's loss of free choice - those at risk may include your son's grandma? |
All of those are interesting questions and in reality, as you have said there is no easy answer as we have seen across the world. There are so many different answers and to some people all of them would be wrong!
Most of the teachers that I know want to get back to working in schools, rather than remotely. I suspect from anecdontal evidence, that there would be enough teachers/nursery staff for the number of children who would return if schools reopen on 1st June. The teaching unions do not reflect the views of many teachers. Many parents may not feel confident sending their children back initially so classes will not be full anyway. I would say initially that if parents do not want to send their children back before September then they should not be fined. I understand their concerns, but by the same token, it should not be a case of because I do not want something, no else should be able to.
When the furlough scheme is ended/tappered off for those industries which are allowed to reopen then unfortunately some people's hands will be forced, rather than returning to work by free choice. As you can probably guess I am happy to go back to work.
My Mum has already had Covid-19, so in my situation she would be very happy to see her Grandson and I am more than happy for him to see her, when allowed. Whilst I agree with the sentiment, a managed risk by one, does not always have to negatively affect someone else. [Post edited 11 May 2020 19:56]
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 20:13 - May 11 with 6499 views | BartRowou |
If English schools follow the Denmark/Germany model, it won't be anything like normal school: ten to a classroom; no mixing outside that ten; one-way systems; shorter days; mornings or afternoons only. Even with all that, the Danish R number rose by three tenths within a week with kids taking it home to pass on to parents to pass on to work colleagues etc.
Even if something like normality returns by the middle of July, it'll be the summer holidays then anyway! Good luck to anyone who can work their shift patterns around that lot when childcare is not an option due to distant socialising. |  |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 08:05 - May 12 with 6256 views | BigDaveMyCock |
For me, the problem with Boris is that he always comes across as if he’s ‘winging it’. Whether this derives from a genuine lack of preparedness on his part or, to give him the benefit of the doubt, a public speaking failing of his (he is prepared but he just doesn’t come across as such), he just doesn’t inspire confidence when it comes to managing this virus. I, like everyone else, sat there on Sunday night eagerly awaiting information only to be left befuddled and shocked at how bad he was.
After about 10 minutes of him really struggling to get his point across in a coherent manner, I just wanted him to stop talking and thought is there anybody else who can finish this off for him. Then I was reminded that it was actually pre-recorded and got even more fed up and just stopped listening.
I never thought I would say this but I think Raab should do more of the public facing stuff like this as he comes across far more prepared and dare I say it knowledgable and aware of the facts. | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 08:24 - May 12 with 6232 views | Nigeriamark |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 20:13 - May 11 by BartRowou |
If English schools follow the Denmark/Germany model, it won't be anything like normal school: ten to a classroom; no mixing outside that ten; one-way systems; shorter days; mornings or afternoons only. Even with all that, the Danish R number rose by three tenths within a week with kids taking it home to pass on to parents to pass on to work colleagues etc.
Even if something like normality returns by the middle of July, it'll be the summer holidays then anyway! Good luck to anyone who can work their shift patterns around that lot when childcare is not an option due to distant socialising. |
My Daughter in Norway goes back to school next week, she is equivalent of Sixth form. However as described by yourself, it will only be one or 2 days a week with smaller class sizes. She called me last week from a restaurant & this weekend they hope for cinemas to open ( 2 have already in Oslo)> Everything still focused on social distancing, but they are not waiting for zero cases. Let's hope we are only a month or so behind. Norway is quite interesting as they were ahead of most of the world in cases for the first couple of weeks but have got on top of it quickly without the same type of lockdown experienced elsewhere |  | | |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 08:41 - May 12 with 6216 views | DaleiLama |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 08:24 - May 12 by Nigeriamark |
My Daughter in Norway goes back to school next week, she is equivalent of Sixth form. However as described by yourself, it will only be one or 2 days a week with smaller class sizes. She called me last week from a restaurant & this weekend they hope for cinemas to open ( 2 have already in Oslo)> Everything still focused on social distancing, but they are not waiting for zero cases. Let's hope we are only a month or so behind. Norway is quite interesting as they were ahead of most of the world in cases for the first couple of weeks but have got on top of it quickly without the same type of lockdown experienced elsewhere |
As one who has some knowledge of the subject NM, what's your view of the SK nightclub story I posted above and the kind of experiment below in the context of relaxing stay at home rules?
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 11:08 - May 12 with 6113 views | Nigeriamark |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 08:41 - May 12 by DaleiLama |
As one who has some knowledge of the subject NM, what's your view of the SK nightclub story I posted above and the kind of experiment below in the context of relaxing stay at home rules?
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For a country that seems to have gt so much right, the night club incident is a bit mystifying. The virus "hotspots" occur when people are in an enclosed environment for a sustained period of time, recirculating each others air with minimal social distancing. You only need 1 person, especially if t is a "super spreader" for multiple cases. Airports & airplanes ( esp long haul), Cruises, care homes etc are all examples of this, where they are in essence indoors, confined with lots of people. Can't think of many worse places than a crammed night club for a few hours. Doesn't make any sense to me
I think pubs & restraunts are a bit more manageable, but I would have thought outdoor activities inc Beer gardens, outdoor dining etc may be a better initial option where some 2m options can be maintained, and the virus is more easily dispelled
I do think we need to relax rules based on a testing and tracking strategy, with much more focus on the vulnerable and less on those who have had the virus and/or are low risk. People with vulnerable relatives need to decide what and how they can manage getting back to work, but I think it is manageable although with some risk | | | |
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