| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:04 - Nov 28 with 1513 views | ploppy |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 21:55 - Nov 28 by skettyparkherbert |
Hi Ploppy
This wouldn't be the first time a jury of ordinary people have got it wrong is it, history is littered with hundreds of such cases.
Duckenfield was being represented by the establishment as he was a senior police officer and they wouldn't tell lies and behave in such a manor would he/
The establishment could make a case for Hitler being a rather nice chap and misunderstood or maybe accusing Oscar Shindler of taking advantage of forced labour and Marketeering during the war, and convince any jury that is the case.
Of all the recent misscarriages of justice, Eg, the Darnels, Guilford 4, the Cardiff 6 or whatever, have any of the senior investigating officers who totally fabricated all the evidence ever been done for Perjury or perverting the cause of justice, no because they my friend are the establishment. |
So, what would you like to happen? A re-trial? And then what? Keep going until you can find a jury that finds him guilty? That's not how it works. |  | |  |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:04 - Nov 28 with 1513 views | Joe_bradshaw |
The jury can only reach their verdict on the evidence presented to the court. If evidence is fabricated or there is evidence missing and not presented to the court that's not the jury's fault. Jurys may be found in hindsight to have convicted innocents or to have failed to convict the guilty but that is almost always due to wrong or incomplete evidence. To say quite simply that a jury is wrong is unfair. |  |
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| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:06 - Nov 28 with 1512 views | skettyparkherbert |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:00 - Nov 28 by lifelong |
Your last paragraph is incorrect. |
Enlighten me?? | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:10 - Nov 28 with 1483 views | skettyparkherbert |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:04 - Nov 28 by ploppy |
So, what would you like to happen? A re-trial? And then what? Keep going until you can find a jury that finds him guilty? That's not how it works. |
We all know how it works my friend you just can't beat the establishment/system, that is how it is unfortunately.
Grenfell i'm sorry to say will be exactly the same whitewash | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:13 - Nov 28 with 1477 views | Yossarian |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 18:17 - Nov 28 by Darran |
Perhaps it’s time to move on.
Never forget but move on. |
Sense at last. |  |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:14 - Nov 28 with 1474 views | lifelong |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:06 - Nov 28 by skettyparkherbert |
Enlighten me?? |
Three Swansea Police Officers, a detective inspector, a detective sergeant and a detective constable, involved in the Darvell case, were arrested and charged and committed for trial at Chester Crown Court. |  | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:14 - Nov 28 with 1472 views | Garyjack |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 21:37 - Nov 28 by pencoedjack |
You really believe that Gary(& Neath)?
It’s quite obvious from your posts you know the score about football culture in the 80s ( & before) and to believe Liverpool ( or some other fans) wouldn’t try to get into a ground without tickets is pretty astonishing
We’ve all seen the footage & both the right & left hand side of the enclosures are packed when more fans tried to enter the ground.
[Post edited 28 Nov 2019 21:46]
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There's been several documentaries where independent professionals have analysed the amount of people who went through the opened gates. and all have come to the conclusion that it ties in with the tickets sold. There was room in the other enclosures, especially to the corner ones.
But as i said, it was a disaster waiting to happen. It could have been us at Liverpool in 1981, or even at Preston a few months earlier. Fact is, football fans were treated like animals in those days, and a tragedy was always coming. It's just a shame 96 people lost their lives before the authorities woke up.
But Hillsboro was not Duckensfield fault. |  | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:22 - Nov 28 with 1448 views | STID2017 |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:14 - Nov 28 by Garyjack |
There's been several documentaries where independent professionals have analysed the amount of people who went through the opened gates. and all have come to the conclusion that it ties in with the tickets sold. There was room in the other enclosures, especially to the corner ones.
But as i said, it was a disaster waiting to happen. It could have been us at Liverpool in 1981, or even at Preston a few months earlier. Fact is, football fans were treated like animals in those days, and a tragedy was always coming. It's just a shame 96 people lost their lives before the authorities woke up.
But Hillsboro was not Duckensfield fault. |
True about Preston. I remember seeing the footage showing a couple of my mates up against the fence smiling and enjoying. Imagine if the surge when we scored or at the final whistle had pushed them and others into the fence ? The ones at the back (I was in the middle with my family and friends) would have pushed forward in joy, totally unaware of any tragedy that could have ensued at the front.
I attended loads of matches like that at the time. Worrying looking back |  |
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| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:23 - Nov 28 with 1452 views | Humpty |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:14 - Nov 28 by lifelong |
Three Swansea Police Officers, a detective inspector, a detective sergeant and a detective constable, involved in the Darvell case, were arrested and charged and committed for trial at Chester Crown Court. |
Do you know how they got off? |  | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:27 - Nov 28 with 1440 views | lifelong |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:23 - Nov 28 by Humpty |
Do you know how they got off? |
Yes, they were acquitted. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:29 - Nov 28 with 1432 views | skettyparkherbert |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:23 - Nov 28 by Humpty |
Do you know how they got off? |
I would take a wild guess and say they got off with it and are living very well on their large pensions | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:37 - Nov 28 with 1406 views | skettyparkherbert |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:29 - Nov 28 by skettyparkherbert |
I would take a wild guess and say they got off with it and are living very well on their large pensions |
Correct me if i'm wrong but haven't the South Wales Police force got the worst record of any police force in the UK for Miscarriages of justice, basically fabricating evidence and framing people?
There may soon be yet another case coming to light soon and i would put my house on it that if it does come to light (establishment are trying their best for it not to happen) nothing will be done about perhaps, the biggest case yet? | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:38 - Nov 28 with 1400 views | lifelong |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:29 - Nov 28 by skettyparkherbert |
I would take a wild guess and say they got off with it and are living very well on their large pensions |
In the last 5 years almost 200 serving Police Officers in the UK have been convicted of committing criminal offences. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:38 - Nov 28 with 1400 views | Humpty |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:27 - Nov 28 by lifelong |
Yes, they were acquitted. |
Thanks. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:41 - Nov 28 with 1385 views | skettyparkherbert |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:38 - Nov 28 by lifelong |
In the last 5 years almost 200 serving Police Officers in the UK have been convicted of committing criminal offences. |
Small fry for mainly minor stuff. A splash in the Ocean to what really goes on. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:45 - Nov 28 with 1365 views | Darran |
I know an ex-policeman on Merseyside that’s bragged about earning lots of money in overtime beating up Welsh miners for Maggie Thatcher and bragged about beating up innocent revellers on a night out. |  |
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| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:49 - Nov 28 with 1358 views | skettyparkherbert |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:45 - Nov 28 by Darran |
I know an ex-policeman on Merseyside that’s bragged about earning lots of money in overtime beating up Welsh miners for Maggie Thatcher and bragged about beating up innocent revellers on a night out. |
Easy now Darren, as if???
In the good old days the filth would give you a good kicking in the cells for feck all, no "no comment" in them days. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 23:02 - Nov 28 with 1334 views | majorraglan |
Hillsborough was a terrible incident and my deepest condolences go to the families who have lost loved ones.
There have been several high profile investigations in to that terrible day costing tens of millions of pounds culminating in today’s not guilty verdict. In a criminal prosecution the prosecution have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt, which 30 years on is a tall order. Safety at sports grounds is a completely different beast today compared to 30 years ago. I can remember being caught up in a crowd surge at the old Cardiff Arms Park watching rugby and being trampled on by loads of people, it was a terrifying experience. There were also huge problems with football hooliganism, supporters were treated like scum (and still are in some places) while some fans behaved like animals. Scratch the surface and hooliganism is still an issue but it’s a lot better than it was.
I feel for the families of the victims and we should never forget, but I do think that we need to draw a line under what’s happened and look forward. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 23:26 - Nov 28 with 1318 views | skettyparkherbert |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 23:02 - Nov 28 by majorraglan |
Hillsborough was a terrible incident and my deepest condolences go to the families who have lost loved ones.
There have been several high profile investigations in to that terrible day costing tens of millions of pounds culminating in today’s not guilty verdict. In a criminal prosecution the prosecution have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt, which 30 years on is a tall order. Safety at sports grounds is a completely different beast today compared to 30 years ago. I can remember being caught up in a crowd surge at the old Cardiff Arms Park watching rugby and being trampled on by loads of people, it was a terrifying experience. There were also huge problems with football hooliganism, supporters were treated like scum (and still are in some places) while some fans behaved like animals. Scratch the surface and hooliganism is still an issue but it’s a lot better than it was.
I feel for the families of the victims and we should never forget, but I do think that we need to draw a line under what’s happened and look forward. |
Agree with a lot of what you say my friend and somehow people must try and move on but so many people close to the Hillsborough case simply can't, they see the whole 30 years it as a total white wash and a huge miscarriage of justice.
Point of order to.
History has proved many times over that in a criminal case the prosecution actually don't have to "prove beyond all reasonable doubt" they just have to throw enough shit at the innocent accused to convince a jury of what they are saying sounds true. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 23:43 - Nov 28 with 1304 views | majorraglan |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 23:26 - Nov 28 by skettyparkherbert |
Agree with a lot of what you say my friend and somehow people must try and move on but so many people close to the Hillsborough case simply can't, they see the whole 30 years it as a total white wash and a huge miscarriage of justice.
Point of order to.
History has proved many times over that in a criminal case the prosecution actually don't have to "prove beyond all reasonable doubt" they just have to throw enough shit at the innocent accused to convince a jury of what they are saying sounds true. |
Indeed, fair points. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 09:08 - Nov 29 with 1222 views | 1983 |
It was the perfect storm and it was always coming sooner or later.
1980’s Policing
1980’s Football fans
Everything else is just shameful from that day forth.
RIP 96 |  |
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| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:00 - Nov 29 with 1126 views | Croftyjack |
It was an awful disaster with many flaws in the processes of the time...the changes made after this have worked which has been implemented well.
In a disaster of this magnitude not one person can ever be blamed as everyone acts on processes and rules that have been created.
Bating one person like an animal is shocking...these people should have got over it by now after 30 years but until they get what they are after which is money they will carry on.
Compensation culture is rife in Liverpool look at facts. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:05 - Nov 29 with 1113 views | Garyjack |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:00 - Nov 29 by Croftyjack |
It was an awful disaster with many flaws in the processes of the time...the changes made after this have worked which has been implemented well.
In a disaster of this magnitude not one person can ever be blamed as everyone acts on processes and rules that have been created.
Bating one person like an animal is shocking...these people should have got over it by now after 30 years but until they get what they are after which is money they will carry on.
Compensation culture is rife in Liverpool look at facts. |
What a vile post to make. | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:30 - Nov 29 with 1089 views | BobbyBacala |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:00 - Nov 29 by Croftyjack |
It was an awful disaster with many flaws in the processes of the time...the changes made after this have worked which has been implemented well.
In a disaster of this magnitude not one person can ever be blamed as everyone acts on processes and rules that have been created.
Bating one person like an animal is shocking...these people should have got over it by now after 30 years but until they get what they are after which is money they will carry on.
Compensation culture is rife in Liverpool look at facts. |
Two quick questions:
Could you show me any 'facts' of a compensation culture in Liverpool? Not one-off cases of morons in the local paper, but something endemic the city which sets it apart from other cities.
Can you explain how a criminal law case against Duckenfield, bought by the Crown, would get the families compensation? | | | |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 00:06 - Nov 30 with 1051 views | Morfa_Same |
| Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter on 22:00 - Nov 29 by Croftyjack |
It was an awful disaster with many flaws in the processes of the time...the changes made after this have worked which has been implemented well.
In a disaster of this magnitude not one person can ever be blamed as everyone acts on processes and rules that have been created.
Bating one person like an animal is shocking...these people should have got over it by now after 30 years but until they get what they are after which is money they will carry on.
Compensation culture is rife in Liverpool look at facts. |
It's not compensation they're after. I can understand why the families can't move on but the country needs to move on. This latest witchhunt has cost £70m but has eventually reached the right verdict. The original investigation nailed the causes and put all the right measures in place. That should have been the end of the matter. It's time for the authorities to be firm and draw a line under this - it should have happened 25 years ago. |  | | |
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