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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 12:43 - Dec 16 by electricblue
Reading this thread and at the end of the day its all about ifs n buts.. If Dale sacked hill what would happen!! But would a new manager improve the situation.
The way i see it. Every football manager as a sell by date so as Hill come to his ? Wenger was a prime example in the end he went.
I dont attend matches but i read this forum and look at supporters views...
As somebody once said and every manager will say this. Football is a results game.
Hill as improved things at Dale from day one he became manager to weither its his first stint which everybody keeps upon pointing to or his inceasingly unpopular 2nd stay..
As the game reached a point where nearly every season after a poor run the supporters want the managers head if that was the case just think of what situation that the club could be in.....Dire
What the supporters have to remember is that Dale are punching above their weight by staying in lge1 each season we all know of the playing budget is one of the lowest in the lower leagues christ even some non lge clubs have a bigger budget...
The manager as and will continue to make mistakes thats the nature of the game and its a constant learning curve for any manager as each season its different.
So becareful what you wish for in sacking a manager who knows this club both in and out....
I'm sick of reading this punching above our weight bollocks. KH was the man who changed the mentality of the club in this regard and now even he's guilty of pedalling that same shite.
I just want a manager who picks our best 11 and plays players in their right positions. Is that too much to ask? It's alright speaking about a learning curve but the issues on the pitch have been there for everyone to see for the best part of 18 months. Our manager is either NOT learning, ignorant or just too stubborn to change.
I hate to be one of those people but unless you actually attend the games, you can't get a proper feel for what's currently happening. Seeing Hendo fcuking about with the ball outside of our own penalty area gives me footballing AIDS and it's not something you can appreciate unless you see it happening in real time
[Post edited 16 Dec 2018 13:50]
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 13:54 - Dec 16 with 2724 views
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 13:07 - Dec 16 by Cleedale
Think that's an interesting comment James - would a new Rochdale manager actually change much?
Imho., we are what we are with a limited budget. The style of play has definitely been found out and I don't think we have anyone other than Hendo who can regularly score - is it just 17 goals by others in 22 games?
And, despite lots of action around the opposition's box in numerous games we invariably are NOT making it count - 'especially' when we are trying to break sides down. Shots off target? Shots on target? Are we being punished for where we 'aren't' making it count atm?
I'd love to see total playing budgets for League 1 this season to see IF there's anyone we compare with.
Our budget might be big for Dale but can anyone quote what we're up against?
Perhaps that is what the board ask 'would it change much if there was a new manager?'
Is it the style of play, or are the players not capable of executing it?
Are the opposition defences too good for us or are we not good enough to break them down? Should we stop trying to pass it into the net, and fire at will (when there it is sensible to do so)?
Wasn't there mention of one Sunderland player being worth most of our squad?
I am sure if there was a league table of expenditure Dale would not be in league 1. Also don't forget we are subject to FFP rules which is a maximum 60% of turnover on wages.
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 13:54 - Dec 16 by James1980
Perhaps that is what the board ask 'would it change much if there was a new manager?'
Is it the style of play, or are the players not capable of executing it?
Are the opposition defences too good for us or are we not good enough to break them down? Should we stop trying to pass it into the net, and fire at will (when there it is sensible to do so)?
Wasn't there mention of one Sunderland player being worth most of our squad?
I am sure if there was a league table of expenditure Dale would not be in league 1. Also don't forget we are subject to FFP rules which is a maximum 60% of turnover on wages.
While talk of finances and its impact on the club/team are understandable, the main problem, as it has been for a season and a half, is the way we have built squads and utilised them. That is ultimately the responsibility of the manager. Yet again pre-match we have heard how Hill is pleased with the way we are progressing, yet the evidence doesn’t back that up. We’d be moving forward more positively if the promising youth players we have were in and around a smaller squad that didn’t contain a multitude of similarly average individuals who are recycled in and out forever more.
Forgetting Henderson playing out of position for a minute (yes, it’s impossible as people are waking in the middle of the night in cold sweats about it), question why Oliver Rathbone, decent player that he is, was utilised on the left side yesterday when we have a collection of players who could/should be playing there ahead of a central midfielder.
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 13:54 - Dec 16 by James1980
Perhaps that is what the board ask 'would it change much if there was a new manager?'
Is it the style of play, or are the players not capable of executing it?
Are the opposition defences too good for us or are we not good enough to break them down? Should we stop trying to pass it into the net, and fire at will (when there it is sensible to do so)?
Wasn't there mention of one Sunderland player being worth most of our squad?
I am sure if there was a league table of expenditure Dale would not be in league 1. Also don't forget we are subject to FFP rules which is a maximum 60% of turnover on wages.
Based upon that FFP where does the other 40% go!!!!
My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 15:28 - Dec 16 with 2546 views
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 14:17 - Dec 16 by electricblue
Based upon that FFP where does the other 40% go!!!!
Would think that shareholders with access to accounts might be able to work it out. Think the figure is for all clubs to try and prevent potential financial difficulty - might be wrong but that doesn't mean the 40% HAS to be spent..?
...but imagine how much we spend on just the playing surface each season.
...guess that ALL clubs now have these backroom staff.
...Rates etc., etc., etc., it soon adds up - and a lot quicker for the likes of us.
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 15:58 - Dec 16 with 2512 views
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 12:33 - Dec 16 by James1980
Not one of those sorry to disappoint. Would a new manager everyone gets behind actually be better? Especially as it would appear there are those that have decided that regardless of what Hill does from now on they want him gone.
How long ago and who was the last Rochdale manager that had 100% support? a manager who's philosophy was to set up teams to win by fast attacking football played on the deck football that had the crowd purring in appreciation. So what changed? Hill changed, that's what has lost Hill support. The very same fans who called him King Keith now want him gone.
This is not the time for bickering.
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 16:20 - Dec 16 with 2473 views
Not a denigration of the Hill Out camp, as I’m not too sure which camp I’m in presently, but has anyone thought who they’d realistically like as a replacement if Hill does leave?
I wouldn’t be averse to giving Chris Brown a go. He does a brilliant job with the youth team and they play better football than the first team. That’s not to say I’d expect him to replicate Hill’s success but he’d certainly be cheaper than any established names and he knows the club and the Dale ethos. And less important ordinarily, but perhaps pertinent given stories about Hill that have surfaced lately, he also seems like a very nice man who always has time for fans.
[Post edited 16 Dec 2018 17:15]
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 17:40 - Dec 16 with 2401 views
The last poll had a total of 114 votes with 86% 98 votes for hill and 16% 14 votes against hill out....This poll so far has a total of 111 votes with 38.7% 43 votes for Hill and 61.3% 68 votes against Hill...One huge swing since the last poll. This should at least end the "Same old moaners" crap being thrown around every time someone posts a negative comment. If we were to go an a ten game unbeaten run in the league this would no doubt change things the other way, we are after all a fickle bunch......
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 16:20 - Dec 16 by Shun
Not a denigration of the Hill Out camp, as I’m not too sure which camp I’m in presently, but has anyone thought who they’d realistically like as a replacement if Hill does leave?
I wouldn’t be averse to giving Chris Brown a go. He does a brilliant job with the youth team and they play better football than the first team. That’s not to say I’d expect him to replicate Hill’s success but he’d certainly be cheaper than any established names and he knows the club and the Dale ethos. And less important ordinarily, but perhaps pertinent given stories about Hill that have surfaced lately, he also seems like a very nice man who always has time for fans.
[Post edited 16 Dec 2018 17:15]
Someone mentioned Paul Hurst somewhere else. Sounds like a viable option but like you, I'm not sure about the situation regarding Hill
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 19:56 - Dec 16 with 2285 views
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 08:05 - Dec 16 by JimmyRustler
Strategically placed dissenters? I thought I'd seen it all yesterday after Lillis' line dancing exploits but apparently not. James, you seem like a decent lad but you don't half talk with your dick out at times
Last season I was of the opinion that even if we did go down I'd still give Hill another chance to get us back up in League two, I don't feel the same this year though. I'm not quite Hill out yet but if in another 5 games time we're sat in the relegation zone and nothing has improved I'd be leaning towards the Hill out camp. The question is would the board actually sack Hill? Unless he walks I think we could go down into League 2 and they still wouldn't sack him
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 22:37 - Dec 16 with 2133 views
No new ideas. The team play with no urgency and look like a dear in the headlights half the time. Add to the fact that the relationship between the supporters and the manager have broken down its Hill out for me. I’m sure another league one or two club would be happy to have Hill and he will still always go down as a Rochdale legend and the best manager we have ever had. Do the right thing and let someone else have a go Keith it’s painfully obvious your heart ain’t in it anymore.
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 22:55 - Dec 16 with 2123 views
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 17:40 - Dec 16 by JimmyRustler
Someone mentioned Paul Hurst somewhere else. Sounds like a viable option but like you, I'm not sure about the situation regarding Hill
Me and my dad were watching Bellamy on The Debate the other well he comes off very well and has applied for similar jobs in our league before Oxford come to mind. Personally I still lean towards hill in. But as a specator from a far I understand the hill out camp. I just want him to turn it around. It's a very similar situation to Mourinho ATM without the finances etc. Picking players in weird positions, having wars with the media, poor signings and the blog off everyone else. I love Hill but it's looks dire.
This is the One, I've waited for
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 23:17 - Dec 16 with 2100 views
I’ve been watching the new Sunderland documentary on Netflix. It’s nowhere near as good as premier passions but far better than that commercial for manc city. Anyhow, if Hill wants to know about fans with opinions that aren’t always nice but brutally reflect what is happening on the pitch, then he could do with watching it.
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 09:59 - Dec 17 with 1823 views
As someone who has recently begun to think Hill should go, I'd love us to have won, but we didn't.
My mind changed because I honestly feel we have a decent squad that are underachieving, that a clear headed manager could get the best out of. With the likes of Paul Hurst and Mark Warburton out of work there are some good options available.
It's a bit of an Arsene Wenger situation. Hilly has brought me the happiest footballing seasons of my life and we all love him for that, but it's not the same anymore.
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 09:59 - Dec 17 by TomRAFC
As someone who has recently begun to think Hill should go, I'd love us to have won, but we didn't.
My mind changed because I honestly feel we have a decent squad that are underachieving, that a clear headed manager could get the best out of. With the likes of Paul Hurst and Mark Warburton out of work there are some good options available.
It's a bit of an Arsene Wenger situation. Hilly has brought me the happiest footballing seasons of my life and we all love him for that, but it's not the same anymore.
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 09:59 - Dec 17 by TomRAFC
As someone who has recently begun to think Hill should go, I'd love us to have won, but we didn't.
My mind changed because I honestly feel we have a decent squad that are underachieving, that a clear headed manager could get the best out of. With the likes of Paul Hurst and Mark Warburton out of work there are some good options available.
It's a bit of an Arsene Wenger situation. Hilly has brought me the happiest footballing seasons of my life and we all love him for that, but it's not the same anymore.
Great analogy with Arsene Wenger whose legacy was soured by staying on too long - he was revolutionary when he first went to Arsenal - like Hill, he was successful - like Hill, the footballing world started to catch up and he started to struggle - like Hill. He managed to be "successful" by finishing in the top 4 - like Hill has been "successful" of late by maintaining our league 1 status. In the end,like Hill, he was just too stubborn to change his ways and he had to go - like Hill?
10 months ago I would have answered that question with a categoric no. At the start of the season, the same. Two months ago I would have said maybe. Now I would seriously consider it.
I'm fed up of hearing it but its true - he's the best manager we've ever had but for whatever reason I question whether his heart is in it. I feel his hunger has gone. I question whether he is now surrounded by Yes men. It seems everyone at the club is frightened of him, walking on egg shells - even some fans.
I'm nearly in the Hill out camp. I was always of the view that even if we were relegated with him in charge, he'd earned the right to have another go at getting us promoted - and I always thought that he could do that. Then he started tinkering, falling out with players, not picking his best 11, playing players out of position, making very strange substitutions, not seeing a problem when it seems everyone in the ground can see it - so now I'm not so sure.
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 09:59 - Dec 17 by TomRAFC
As someone who has recently begun to think Hill should go, I'd love us to have won, but we didn't.
My mind changed because I honestly feel we have a decent squad that are underachieving, that a clear headed manager could get the best out of. With the likes of Paul Hurst and Mark Warburton out of work there are some good options available.
It's a bit of an Arsene Wenger situation. Hilly has brought me the happiest footballing seasons of my life and we all love him for that, but it's not the same anymore.
This is exactly my current view of the situation.
In previous seasons I always had the confidence he would eventually sort it, get the players performing and everything would be ok. Unfortunately I no longer believe he is capable of sorting it out. We have had 18 months of the same poor performances/results and the never ending repeating of mistakes that change games and nothing has changed. Sadly it seems to me Hill has done everything he can at the club and has taken us as far as he can. If he is to stay around he's likely to end up like Dario Gradi at Crewe with a reputation for developing and playing young players in the first team and a side that bounces between Leagues one and two. Whilst I don't think this is a bad thing for our club as a business, on the pitch the current product is stale and turgid and not something I would be happy to watch week in week out.
What exactly do you Daleys want? You are a relatively small club on limited finances playing in League One which is about your ceiling,there are some big clubs in your league now,gone are the days when the 'third division' was for has been clubs down on their luck,there's some serious money being spent trying to get promoted out of it,as long as Keith keeps you up then stick with him,you don't want to be in the bottom two of league two do yer
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 12:16 - Dec 17 by chalky_ncfc
What exactly do you Daleys want? You are a relatively small club on limited finances playing in League One which is about your ceiling,there are some big clubs in your league now,gone are the days when the 'third division' was for has been clubs down on their luck,there's some serious money being spent trying to get promoted out of it,as long as Keith keeps you up then stick with him,you don't want to be in the bottom two of league two do yer
Hill In!
We've proven we can do far better in league one than we're doing at the moment, without any delusions of excessive success. I'd like that, which is a pretty reasonable amount of progress to expect.
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 12:16 - Dec 17 by chalky_ncfc
What exactly do you Daleys want? You are a relatively small club on limited finances playing in League One which is about your ceiling,there are some big clubs in your league now,gone are the days when the 'third division' was for has been clubs down on their luck,there's some serious money being spent trying to get promoted out of it,as long as Keith keeps you up then stick with him,you don't want to be in the bottom two of league two do yer
Hill In!
Have a read through the board and you'll see what we want. I don't think we have an unrealistic fanbase as a whole. Hill would actually save himself a lot of criticism if he kept things simple or failing that explained the reasoning behind some of his decisions.
For me I'd see where we are on NYD and make a decision then.
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Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 13:02 - Dec 17 with 1620 views
Hill in or out? 2nd referendum..... on 12:30 - Dec 17 by funkkk
Have a read through the board and you'll see what we want. I don't think we have an unrealistic fanbase as a whole. Hill would actually save himself a lot of criticism if he kept things simple or failing that explained the reasoning behind some of his decisions.
For me I'd see where we are on NYD and make a decision then.
Should Dale stay up or get relegated at the end of this season with or without Hill will the manager have a reduced budget to deal with. I actually think so as isnt it rumoured that the dudget got a hefty increase of about £300k. That increase may have bought in the likes of Clough, Inman, williams, randal, Norman, Wilbraham, Perkins as that improved anything from last season!
So what im trying to say is that can Hill manage the extra money situation! Did the increase make him think outside the box and Hill got a bit giddy with it..
As i think Hill is the type of manager who works wonders on a restricted budget....
My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds
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