| What would happen if we managed the improbable? 15:57 - Oct 22 with 3646 views | James1980 |
If Dale were to get into the Championship, what would happen?
I have asked a fairly open question, but are thoughts on the financial impact, season ticket and attendance to games. Retention of the best players, ability to attract players on loan and longer term contracts. Likelihood of survival or relegation, if relegated would it be a complete capitulation or only just missing out on staying up.
I know this is pie in the sky at the moment |  |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 16:08 - Oct 22 with 2764 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
I was thinking the exact same thing this morning looking at the League 1 table, only I had in mind Accrington Stanley. | | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 16:12 - Oct 22 with 2761 views | EllDale |
The first couple of times that I heard Hilly talk about "managed relegation" it was in connection with demotion from the championship so there was definitely a plan in place at one stage.
All he takes about these days though is how difficult it is to survive in League One so maybe the ambition has been tempered and realism has set in. | | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 16:26 - Oct 22 with 2739 views | James1980 |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 16:12 - Oct 22 by EllDale |
The first couple of times that I heard Hilly talk about "managed relegation" it was in connection with demotion from the championship so there was definitely a plan in place at one stage.
All he takes about these days though is how difficult it is to survive in League One so maybe the ambition has been tempered and realism has set in. |
"Managed relegation" what does that, really, mean? Is it to do with contracts etc so relegation doesn't cripple a club financially? | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 16:52 - Oct 22 with 2693 views | Forever_and_a_Dale |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 16:26 - Oct 22 by James1980 |
"Managed relegation" what does that, really, mean? Is it to do with contracts etc so relegation doesn't cripple a club financially? |
Pretty much that, high chance if it ever happens we would come straight back down so putting plans in place so we don't get stuck paying large wages to players upon relegation [Post edited 22 Oct 2018 16:53]
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 16:57 - Oct 22 with 2680 views | EllDale |
As I understand it, it means that the club is sufficiently robust, both financially and in terms of infrastructure, to ensure that relegation is not the start of a downward spiral eg as happened with Yeovil. | | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 17:04 - Oct 22 with 2667 views | aleanddale |
Lets face it we would have little / no chance.
Slim Outside chance of survival one season at absolute best. That would be stumbling across an impressive collective of players who all punched above there weight for 10 months or so.
The gap is huge already. Its getting bigger year on year. the truth is we over achieve with what we do week in week out in lg1 (sorry not the most positive of posts I know).
We just couldn't find enough money to sustain any sort of lengthy stay in the second tier.
Even getting there looks a pipe dream TBH. | | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 17:07 - Oct 22 with 2655 views | James1980 |
So if it did happen, is it the case KH and the board wouldn't expect the gate receipts etc to finance a campaign to stay in the championship and have money in the kitty to avoid financial hardship, in the event of relegation, without sensible management of contracts and signing of players? | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 17:20 - Oct 22 with 2636 views | DaleiLama |
With "better teams" (i.e. playing better as a team), we finished top-half but didn't make the play-offs for three years on the bounce. We all know what season followed that.
Frankly, I'd be made up with a top half finish at the mo. This squad is all potential, without the required consistency and results to achieve more (yet)! If we can't do it at this level, we won't even get to the next level, let alone survive there. Pies in the ground are probably a better target to aim for James. [Post edited 22 Oct 2018 17:22]
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 17:34 - Oct 22 with 2611 views | seasidedale |
I remember Hill saying a couple of seasons ago about ensuring that if we did go up we wouldnt be like Yeovil as promotion then relegation led to them nearly going out of business. Plus the second relation didnt help, so they had something in mind, the gap of tv money between the championship and league one is huge somthing like 1.5 m to 350,000 in league 1 | | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 17:52 - Oct 22 with 2581 views | fermin |
You could also look at Burton who survived 1 season I think in the Championship before coming down, but they had a bigger budget than us when they went up.
Judging by the comments on the Burton messageboard around the time of our game there, when some posters wanted Clough out for failing to keep them up, I imagine there would be similar calls on here! |  | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 18:37 - Oct 22 with 2507 views | Nigeriamark |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 17:52 - Oct 22 by fermin |
You could also look at Burton who survived 1 season I think in the Championship before coming down, but they had a bigger budget than us when they went up.
Judging by the comments on the Burton messageboard around the time of our game there, when some posters wanted Clough out for failing to keep them up, I imagine there would be similar calls on here! |
If we went up we would come down with as you say 1 group of fans calling for the managers head every week. The rest would just enjoy the experience of being there for a year enjoying the new grounds big crowds and celebrating the odd big win. I’d be in the latter group. |  | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 18:44 - Oct 22 with 2485 views | James1980 |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 17:20 - Oct 22 by DaleiLama |
With "better teams" (i.e. playing better as a team), we finished top-half but didn't make the play-offs for three years on the bounce. We all know what season followed that.
Frankly, I'd be made up with a top half finish at the mo. This squad is all potential, without the required consistency and results to achieve more (yet)! If we can't do it at this level, we won't even get to the next level, let alone survive there. Pies in the ground are probably a better target to aim for James. [Post edited 22 Oct 2018 17:22]
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Well priced quality and tasty pies of course.
How about if we reached that pie in the sky. Would we sell out or close to sell out most games? | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 18:49 - Oct 22 with 2465 views | watford_dale |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 17:34 - Oct 22 by seasidedale |
I remember Hill saying a couple of seasons ago about ensuring that if we did go up we wouldnt be like Yeovil as promotion then relegation led to them nearly going out of business. Plus the second relation didnt help, so they had something in mind, the gap of tv money between the championship and league one is huge somthing like 1.5 m to 350,000 in league 1 |
This season each club in the championship will receive a basic award of £2.3m and a solidarity payment of £4.5m. In addition clubs receive money from sky for every game televised - fri/sat £100k per game, sun is £120k per game and thurs is £140k a game.
I think from our cost base, this would take some severe spending to put us in the proverbial. | | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 19:02 - Oct 22 with 2428 views | smaclad1 |
Given the size of our home following, the likely sizeable away followings we will have to accommodate, and the need to maximise income given our lack of comparable financial clout, we'll give the Sandy to away fans. | | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 19:37 - Oct 22 with 2382 views | DaleiLama |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 18:44 - Oct 22 by James1980 |
Well priced quality and tasty pies of course.
How about if we reached that pie in the sky. Would we sell out or close to sell out most games? |
I have my doubts James, but you never know. If the capacity of COA is 10k and the Wilbutts holds 3.5k that's enough room for 6.5K Daleys. We are currently at 40% of that in terms of ST + you can add some potd numbers to that.
Don't know if you listened to JM but he increased Bratfud's STs from 11k to 19k, so he has form and it strikes me as no coincidence that Russ and subsequently JM were appointed CEO as both have run ST promotions successfully.
The subject of attendances has generated pages and pages of discussions on here. I'd say others have more experience to draw on than I. Whilst my default setting is optimism, unless they are giving STs away, my guess is we only fill the COA for selected marquee fixtures. | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 19:38 - Oct 22 with 2367 views | D_Alien |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 18:44 - Oct 22 by James1980 |
Well priced quality and tasty pies of course.
How about if we reached that pie in the sky. Would we sell out or close to sell out most games? |
We'd definitely sell out the pies, rather than our usual problem with who ate them all |  |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 19:49 - Oct 22 with 2323 views | boromat |
Yeah I think the 'managed relegation' would be the way. And by that I understand it as the Burnley model where they were happy to get relegated while living within their means taking the extra income and improving incrementally, eventually building enough to be sustainable in the Premier League.
Unfortunately if we did go up I think we would struggle to be successful with any approach. We'd have too many players taken off us/sold and I don't think our home attendances would increase significantly.
It would potentially be a good platform to blood some youth players. And what an achievement to have Rochdale in the Championship, I'd hope none of us would care as to how that season would play out and just enjoy the ride. | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 20:06 - Oct 22 with 2265 views | D_Alien |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 19:49 - Oct 22 by boromat |
Yeah I think the 'managed relegation' would be the way. And by that I understand it as the Burnley model where they were happy to get relegated while living within their means taking the extra income and improving incrementally, eventually building enough to be sustainable in the Premier League.
Unfortunately if we did go up I think we would struggle to be successful with any approach. We'd have too many players taken off us/sold and I don't think our home attendances would increase significantly.
It would potentially be a good platform to blood some youth players. And what an achievement to have Rochdale in the Championship, I'd hope none of us would care as to how that season would play out and just enjoy the ride. |
Slightly different model to Burnley, who you rightly quote, but Bournemouth who have a rich benefactor took some fearful tonkings in their first season in the premier league. I can't imagine they'd have zero followers who'd have been asking for Howe's head during that period but i'll bet they were soon quietened
This season has seen several big home reverses at Dale but at no stage has the football not been worth watching. My conclusion is therefore that how we'd approach games in the championship would be a big factor. Eddie Howe stuck with his principles, as does Sean Dyche. I'd like to think that Hill would do the same and if that wasn't enough to keep us up i'd have no complaints whatsoever | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 20:10 - Oct 22 with 2256 views | James1980 |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 19:37 - Oct 22 by DaleiLama |
I have my doubts James, but you never know. If the capacity of COA is 10k and the Wilbutts holds 3.5k that's enough room for 6.5K Daleys. We are currently at 40% of that in terms of ST + you can add some potd numbers to that.
Don't know if you listened to JM but he increased Bratfud's STs from 11k to 19k, so he has form and it strikes me as no coincidence that Russ and subsequently JM were appointed CEO as both have run ST promotions successfully.
The subject of attendances has generated pages and pages of discussions on here. I'd say others have more experience to draw on than I. Whilst my default setting is optimism, unless they are giving STs away, my guess is we only fill the COA for selected marquee fixtures. |
I listened to Matey FM on my phone, was certainly impressed by what JM had to say.
My guess would be a season in The Championship, would see Season tickets increase to at least 3500, depending on being sensibly priced. Perhaps early bird prices of say no more than £300 Main £250 Pearl Street £200 Sandy. Increasing by £50 after EB period had ended.
Current match days COA is averaging about a 30% capacity. I agree marquee games likely to be the only sell out games. The others an average of 45-65% | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 20:49 - Oct 22 with 2185 views | oddjob007 |
There seems to be some obsession on here about filling the COA at all costs. A season getting spanked in the championship ain’t gonna do that. Continuing to build a generation of Rochdale fans that view the team as being semi successful will sort to that in the long term
My view, for what’s it worth.
- continue with current season ticket prices / do something similar to last season. Championship football should add another 500-1000.
- milk the championship for what it’s worth. Noticed an ad today about sleeve sponsorship for the FA Cup. Not sure you can do that for individual league games, but if you can sell it for the bigger games - Leeds and the likes that are likely to be on tv. Sign up sponsors on Championship contracts - look further afield than the OL postcode.
- try and expand our away capacity - somehow without incurring too much cost.
- “managed relegation” - Agree with this, yo yo up and down a couple of times, use the money to invest in youth and training facilities, improve our hospitality and main stand to get some increased non matchday revenue (players lounge is embarrassing quite frankly) - v similar to what Burnley did.
- season 3 make a fist of it, protect ourselves with relegation wage drop clauses, but equally decent staying up bonuses.
Just some random thoughts. Trying to boost our gate is like flogging a dead horse. Championship brings with it different opportunities. | | | |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 21:18 - Oct 22 with 2110 views | James1980 |
So far it appears opinion is achieving 'the improbable' as I titled the thread, would not see home games selling out every game. 500-1000 more season tickets is a fair estimate, others may agree/disagree.
I agree with Dalei's view that marquee games would sell out, other games a plethora of factors to consider. | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 21:33 - Oct 22 with 2080 views | DaleiLama |
| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 20:49 - Oct 22 by oddjob007 |
There seems to be some obsession on here about filling the COA at all costs. A season getting spanked in the championship ain’t gonna do that. Continuing to build a generation of Rochdale fans that view the team as being semi successful will sort to that in the long term
My view, for what’s it worth.
- continue with current season ticket prices / do something similar to last season. Championship football should add another 500-1000.
- milk the championship for what it’s worth. Noticed an ad today about sleeve sponsorship for the FA Cup. Not sure you can do that for individual league games, but if you can sell it for the bigger games - Leeds and the likes that are likely to be on tv. Sign up sponsors on Championship contracts - look further afield than the OL postcode.
- try and expand our away capacity - somehow without incurring too much cost.
- “managed relegation” - Agree with this, yo yo up and down a couple of times, use the money to invest in youth and training facilities, improve our hospitality and main stand to get some increased non matchday revenue (players lounge is embarrassing quite frankly) - v similar to what Burnley did.
- season 3 make a fist of it, protect ourselves with relegation wage drop clauses, but equally decent staying up bonuses.
Just some random thoughts. Trying to boost our gate is like flogging a dead horse. Championship brings with it different opportunities. |
I don't think it's an obsession as such, but if we have more gate money we can maybe retain more players or afford loanees/signings we may not have otherwise done. It was a question directly posed to JM. He described it as his main and biggest challenge. His solution is very long term - namely you get hooked at 7. So this is the main focus of building the future supporter base. Of course any adults who can be picked up along the way are very welcome. He asked for ideas. Why don't you e-mail yours in. He seems very open and wants to work with the fanbase - indeed he deems it critical to the success of his role. All very promising. The one thing that didn't chime with me was when he said the club has a "can do" attitude. I think if he asked the fanbase they would have a different story to tell. | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 21:49 - Oct 22 with 2053 views | James1980 |
It is a small thing but how much would a few tins of masonry paint and the labour to repaint the letters for the mainstand rows cost?
Off topic I know | |
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 21:55 - Oct 22 with 2044 views | macro |
Yeovil - one season - crashed then into L2 - badly affected them as a club
Burton - two seasons - struggling this season
Half glass empty - could be a disaster
Half glass full - money made, could set the club up for a few seasons [Post edited 22 Oct 2018 21:57]
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| What would happen if we managed the improbable? on 23:09 - Oct 22 with 1929 views | dingdangblue |
If Hill ever did the impossible and got Dale promoted to the Championship there is a good chance he wouldn't be here to experience it!
You would imagine he would be getting offers elsewhere. |  |
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