| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? 21:20 - Jul 28 with 25995 views | Swansea93 |
I appreciate the attempts last season of certain groups trying to start some chants and protests, and I'm not jumping the gun and being negative here, but since Huw said he'd step down if we were relegated and he's still here is abit of joke, he's hired Potter and hasn't given him any backing in the market as of yet and is clearly calling the shots still. When are we all actually going to get Jenkins out because I don't think we can 'rebuild' with him still here, how many fans are actually going to forgive him for the sh!te he's caused the last few years? With Andre Ayew leaving on loan is a prime example of how Huw has run the club the past few years, big money signings on big wages leaving for next to nothing. Yes we all appreciate what he and others did for the club all them years ago, but we've moved on since that and we're talking about now & the future which he has shat on.
Eder, Tabanou, Borja, Ayew, Bony, Clucas, Ngog, Mesa to name a few of his signings that have all cost a club of our size a fortune,not to mention the questionable decisions he's made e.g not bringing Allen back when he had the chance, handing out long contracts to squad players who weren't playing in the first team. He stated we'd learn from mistakes which they clearly havent it's the same old story every time, we start the season in 7 days and we have signed 1 player officially for the '1st team' and if we start off bad Potter is going to get the blame for this whilst Huw is tucked up in his directors box getting away with all the sh!t. |  |
| |  |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:34 - Jul 29 with 1296 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:54 - Jul 29 by TheResurrection |
How are we? We're only a few extremely valuable players being sold away from being in just as good, if not a much better position. |
Overall we are not.
We have some valuable players, but we also have some players that are a huge drain that we can’t shift for love nor money. As an example, Baston. Andre Ayew. These are issue for us as we are contracted to pay out their costs for another 2/3 years yet have no guarantee of anyone willing to pay those costs not take them off our hands. We will have payments due on those players this year, next year, etc. as part of their contracts but also as part of their initial transfer.
We may be able to do something with some in this position (Bony, Clucas) but at this point in time we may not.
In a few weeks time, we may be in a better position, but we are finding that shifting players that are grossly overpaid and for whom we paid far too much for their ability is not that easy.
We are also in a worse situation with the stadium. You may recall that when the lease subject came up I pointed out that it was a potentially risky deal if we went down and saw things like naming rights fall away. As we are now responsible for stadium maintenance, losses, etc etc, which wasn’t the case before. And yet we’ve done no development of capacity during our 7 year tenure. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:35 - Jul 29 with 1290 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:29 - Jul 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
Fair play , your last paragraph describes E20's posting methods to a tee . Dammit, I'm proud of you Sumbler. |
If that were even close to being true then an alternative would have been suggested by now.
It hasnt been.
I’m here to be convinced there is a better alternative. 7 pages later all we have is people making silly snipes about nothing due to them not being able to “win” a debate.
It’s quite pathetic. |  |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:36 - Jul 29 with 1287 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:35 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
If that were even close to being true then an alternative would have been suggested by now.
It hasnt been.
I’m here to be convinced there is a better alternative. 7 pages later all we have is people making silly snipes about nothing due to them not being able to “win” a debate.
It’s quite pathetic. |
Do you ever agree that we should sack a manager for poor results?
Without knowing the alternatives? | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:37 - Jul 29 with 1286 views | moonie |
Folk this ,I'm gonna resurrect Perch . There should only so much manlove you can handle .
Hard to replace how.
It's a big world away from that valley and plenty of talented professionals out there, y know, people who can make a profit as opposed to mass losses .
It d be hard to find worse | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:39 - Jul 29 with 1278 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:34 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Overall we are not.
We have some valuable players, but we also have some players that are a huge drain that we can’t shift for love nor money. As an example, Baston. Andre Ayew. These are issue for us as we are contracted to pay out their costs for another 2/3 years yet have no guarantee of anyone willing to pay those costs not take them off our hands. We will have payments due on those players this year, next year, etc. as part of their contracts but also as part of their initial transfer.
We may be able to do something with some in this position (Bony, Clucas) but at this point in time we may not.
In a few weeks time, we may be in a better position, but we are finding that shifting players that are grossly overpaid and for whom we paid far too much for their ability is not that easy.
We are also in a worse situation with the stadium. You may recall that when the lease subject came up I pointed out that it was a potentially risky deal if we went down and saw things like naming rights fall away. As we are now responsible for stadium maintenance, losses, etc etc, which wasn’t the case before. And yet we’ve done no development of capacity during our 7 year tenure. |
So if you had the choice, to have stayed treading water in the Championship for the last 7 years and enduring the takeover in the same manner, or have the last 7 years played out the same as it did.
What would you choose? | |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:41 - Jul 29 with 1269 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:36 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Do you ever agree that we should sack a manager for poor results?
Without knowing the alternatives? |
It would depend on a huge number of factors, impossible to give a straight yes or no.
A succession plan would absolutely form part of the decision however, as would timing, costs, position and a whole host of other factors. | |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:42 - Jul 29 with 1273 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:39 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
So if you had the choice, to have stayed treading water in the Championship for the last 7 years and enduring the takeover in the same manner, or have the last 7 years played out the same as it did.
What would you choose? |
If we had stayed in the championship we wouldn’t have had the takeover in the same manner.
But it’s a false question anyway. Those aren’t or weren’t the only two options and I would have chosen a different one. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:46 - Jul 29 with 1256 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:42 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
If we had stayed in the championship we wouldn’t have had the takeover in the same manner.
But it’s a false question anyway. Those aren’t or weren’t the only two options and I would have chosen a different one. |
Nothing false about it. I am giving you two options in a hypothetical scenario.
1) We never got promoted, Americans took over in same way. Our finances were the same as the season prior to promotion.
2) The last 7 years were as they were with all the success and perceived failures that came with that. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:50 - Jul 29 with 1251 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:46 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
Nothing false about it. I am giving you two options in a hypothetical scenario.
1) We never got promoted, Americans took over in same way. Our finances were the same as the season prior to promotion.
2) The last 7 years were as they were with all the success and perceived failures that came with that. |
I wouldn’t have chosen either of them.
Which is fine because those weren’t the only two options. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:52 - Jul 29 with 1239 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:50 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
I wouldn’t have chosen either of them.
Which is fine because those weren’t the only two options. |
The same 7 years we had then.
Same as me. | |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:59 - Jul 29 with 1232 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:52 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
The same 7 years we had then.
Same as me. |
You can’t make a choice for me because I say I wouldn’t have either of them.
I’d choose the squad we had in our last championship season over the squad we have now.
I’d choose the financial position we were in in the last championship season over the one we have now.
I’d choose the manager over the one we have now.
I’d swap all that for the training facilities.
If overall you are saying would I swap the memories of being in the premier league and winning the cup for those things. Don’t know. I would probably go back to 2011 if I’m honest, although I’ve enjoyed the premier league. But it’s a false choice. Doesn’t have the remotest impact on whether Jenkins should go or not as those weren’t the only two options available. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:05 - Jul 29 with 1211 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:59 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
You can’t make a choice for me because I say I wouldn’t have either of them.
I’d choose the squad we had in our last championship season over the squad we have now.
I’d choose the financial position we were in in the last championship season over the one we have now.
I’d choose the manager over the one we have now.
I’d swap all that for the training facilities.
If overall you are saying would I swap the memories of being in the premier league and winning the cup for those things. Don’t know. I would probably go back to 2011 if I’m honest, although I’ve enjoyed the premier league. But it’s a false choice. Doesn’t have the remotest impact on whether Jenkins should go or not as those weren’t the only two options available. |
But those are choices you are adding that are not available in my question. Yo aren’t answering because the answer is blindingly obvious.
We have discussed two things. On field success vs normal financial shortfalls that come with relegation.
With one, eventually comes the other.
If the “other” trumps the “one” then you really shouldn’t be wanting us to ever go up again. But quite obviously, it doesn’t. | |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:09 - Jul 29 with 1203 views | Neath_Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 14:12 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
If we accept the premise that relegation from the premier league is inevitable for a club like us, the only possible measure of success is whether a club’s stay in the premier league (however long that may be) is used to improve the long term financial position of the club. Does it provide an improvement in financial security.
Our financial position as a club is massively inferior to the position we were in just before promotion to the premier league.
Massively.
So the premier league years were grossly mismanaged. The person in charge of that mismanagement has to be held responsible for that. That’s Jenkins.
It’s what happens in every single assessment of every single company. Is the position at any given point within a CEO’s tenure better than the position at the start. If not. He’s been a failure. And he’d be sacked.
Jenkins should go.
It really is that simple. |
Could i ask a question on this post please.
Do any clubs that are relegated from the Premier League, do so in a position of financial strength? I'd have thought they don't, such is the monster of the league that it is.
Also, what do other clubs do with their DOF/Chairmen when they get relegated, does history tell us that they usually get sacked?
Note: This is a genuine question and not an endorsement of Jenkins tenure. And i know you don't care about what other clubs do or don't do. |  |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:12 - Jul 29 with 1190 views | wobbly |
But why would the Americans buy a small, championship club with no premier league experience? And why would Jenkins need be so duplicitous and deceptive in the sale to those same Americans (who have never heard of us as Jack to a King would never have been made) as Americans v1.0 wouldn’t have happened either.
Your two options are a bit bonkers. |  | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:12 - Jul 29 with 1185 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:09 - Jul 29 by Neath_Jack |
Could i ask a question on this post please.
Do any clubs that are relegated from the Premier League, do so in a position of financial strength? I'd have thought they don't, such is the monster of the league that it is.
Also, what do other clubs do with their DOF/Chairmen when they get relegated, does history tell us that they usually get sacked?
Note: This is a genuine question and not an endorsement of Jenkins tenure. And i know you don't care about what other clubs do or don't do. |
Important to add “after a prolonged period of time in the Premier League” NJ, if you don’t mind me adding.
Getting promoted and spending minimally can obviously improve the financial picture of a club. However after being competitive for 7 years and all that comes with that, I would very much doubt there are many, if any, that are better off financially upon relegation.
Hence the question - on field success or normal cost of relegation after that period of time. The answer is obvious, which is why nobody will answer it.
However they may well have a better infrastructure there for future generations. Which is what we have of course. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 16:18]
| |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:14 - Jul 29 with 1176 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:12 - Jul 29 by wobbly |
But why would the Americans buy a small, championship club with no premier league experience? And why would Jenkins need be so duplicitous and deceptive in the sale to those same Americans (who have never heard of us as Jack to a King would never have been made) as Americans v1.0 wouldn’t have happened either.
Your two options are a bit bonkers. |
I would have suggested that going back in time would be a pretty bonkers part of the question, thankfully hypothetical questions can be. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 16:17]
| |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:19 - Jul 29 with 1162 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:05 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
But those are choices you are adding that are not available in my question. Yo aren’t answering because the answer is blindingly obvious.
We have discussed two things. On field success vs normal financial shortfalls that come with relegation.
With one, eventually comes the other.
If the “other” trumps the “one” then you really shouldn’t be wanting us to ever go up again. But quite obviously, it doesn’t. |
It’s like saying ‘would you choose to smoke if the cost of doing so was much smaller and it had no impact on health’. It’s a nonsensical question.
But I did answer. I said if you are asking would I give up the memories for a better long term future the answer is probably yes.
You disagree, which is fine.
You ask a question and then if you receive an answer you don’t like you refuse to accept it. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:20 - Jul 29 with 1158 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:18 - Jul 29 by wobbly |
True. Your option 1 was so ridiculous the fact that it also introduced both the concept of time travel and the ability to change history hadn’t even occurred to me  |
And yet still proved my point and thus triggered the agenda folks in the power of the obvious unspoken answer.
The wonders of typed text. | |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:24 - Jul 29 with 1148 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:19 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
It’s like saying ‘would you choose to smoke if the cost of doing so was much smaller and it had no impact on health’. It’s a nonsensical question.
But I did answer. I said if you are asking would I give up the memories for a better long term future the answer is probably yes.
You disagree, which is fine.
You ask a question and then if you receive an answer you don’t like you refuse to accept it. |
No more nonsensical than your plethora of “I would rathers” that you were more than happy to divulge. We wouldn’t still have Brendan Rodgers if still in the Championship etc etc etc
You didn’t answer my question because I didn’t ask the one you decided to create and then answer instead. We are no more guaranteed a long term healthy financial future now than before promotion, so it is not ‘either or’ on that front. My question was clear. Presumably choosing the “stay” in the Championship scenario, for the last 7 years you would have been hoping we don’t go up.
The concept was and remains simple, would you want on field success if it meant upon relegation you have to incur the normal costs surrounding it. You refused to answer because the answer is clear.
I don’t for one second believe you or anyone else would. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 16:47]
| |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:45 - Jul 29 with 1078 views | TheResurrection |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 15:34 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Overall we are not.
We have some valuable players, but we also have some players that are a huge drain that we can’t shift for love nor money. As an example, Baston. Andre Ayew. These are issue for us as we are contracted to pay out their costs for another 2/3 years yet have no guarantee of anyone willing to pay those costs not take them off our hands. We will have payments due on those players this year, next year, etc. as part of their contracts but also as part of their initial transfer.
We may be able to do something with some in this position (Bony, Clucas) but at this point in time we may not.
In a few weeks time, we may be in a better position, but we are finding that shifting players that are grossly overpaid and for whom we paid far too much for their ability is not that easy.
We are also in a worse situation with the stadium. You may recall that when the lease subject came up I pointed out that it was a potentially risky deal if we went down and saw things like naming rights fall away. As we are now responsible for stadium maintenance, losses, etc etc, which wasn’t the case before. And yet we’ve done no development of capacity during our 7 year tenure. |
OK what exactly is the financial loss each year on Borja? He's been on loan so we've had something back.
Same for Ayew, we're having a loan fee and we're getting a percentage of his wages paid. What percentage is that?
Clucas is going is he, or that's the will of the club is it? What are we expecting there and of course that's going to offset some, if not all of the other 2.
When Mawson goes it's also going to bring a huge relief to the books and yes, it's not easy getting the best value for some of the players we could do with leaving but we'll still be able to get good money for them.
Plus our dealings aren't finished yet and not by a long chalk it seems, so let's see where we are in a few weeks and how the position is looking then.
We've made some good contingency planning over the last few years by strengthening our under 23's and hopefully some of them will be able to break through this season and become real assets for us.
You've mentioned the drag on the stadium with maintenance costs but omitted to mention any benefits, aren't there any? Would we have got anything from Little Mix and the Killers this summer, will we again next summer? What about food and drinks, do we get no return from this? Conferences, hospitality?
It was always going to be difficult going down but people only focussing on the negatives is going to be our biggest hurdle to overcome. |  |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:51 - Jul 29 with 1047 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:24 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
No more nonsensical than your plethora of “I would rathers” that you were more than happy to divulge. We wouldn’t still have Brendan Rodgers if still in the Championship etc etc etc
You didn’t answer my question because I didn’t ask the one you decided to create and then answer instead. We are no more guaranteed a long term healthy financial future now than before promotion, so it is not ‘either or’ on that front. My question was clear. Presumably choosing the “stay” in the Championship scenario, for the last 7 years you would have been hoping we don’t go up.
The concept was and remains simple, would you want on field success if it meant upon relegation you have to incur the normal costs surrounding it. You refused to answer because the answer is clear.
I don’t for one second believe you or anyone else would. [Post edited 29 Jul 2018 16:47]
|
Ah, so we’ve now introduced a concept called ‘normal cost’ . Which doesn’t exist. It’s perfectly possible to stay a few years in the premier league and not have a big financial cost of doing so.
You’re changing your point every few posts.
The last sentence - did you mean would or wouldn’t?
If you are asking would I take a long term financial hit for short term success. No, I wouldn’t. I can’t be clearer than that. I wouldn’t advocate it on buying a player we couldn’t afford so I wouldn’t advocate it on the club as a whole.
Now the rain has stopped so I am taking my dog out. So you can carry on if you wish. | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:53 - Jul 29 with 1033 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:45 - Jul 29 by TheResurrection |
OK what exactly is the financial loss each year on Borja? He's been on loan so we've had something back.
Same for Ayew, we're having a loan fee and we're getting a percentage of his wages paid. What percentage is that?
Clucas is going is he, or that's the will of the club is it? What are we expecting there and of course that's going to offset some, if not all of the other 2.
When Mawson goes it's also going to bring a huge relief to the books and yes, it's not easy getting the best value for some of the players we could do with leaving but we'll still be able to get good money for them.
Plus our dealings aren't finished yet and not by a long chalk it seems, so let's see where we are in a few weeks and how the position is looking then.
We've made some good contingency planning over the last few years by strengthening our under 23's and hopefully some of them will be able to break through this season and become real assets for us.
You've mentioned the drag on the stadium with maintenance costs but omitted to mention any benefits, aren't there any? Would we have got anything from Little Mix and the Killers this summer, will we again next summer? What about food and drinks, do we get no return from this? Conferences, hospitality?
It was always going to be difficult going down but people only focussing on the negatives is going to be our biggest hurdle to overcome. |
If people are genuinely fearful of the normal financial impact of relegation, then surely losing half our games each year and remaining in a league where we can stay reasonably financially stable is infinitely better.
So this improvement everybody wants is counter productive because unless they think we will turn into the elite in the land immune from the drop or indeed want to support us to promotion then be happy to spend minimal and come back down again ad infinitum - then what is the point of supporting the side of you do not want success for fear of the result?
I can only think it is not a genuine opinion, doesn’t make any rational or realistic sense. | |
| |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:57 - Jul 29 with 1027 views | londonlisa2001 |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:45 - Jul 29 by TheResurrection |
OK what exactly is the financial loss each year on Borja? He's been on loan so we've had something back.
Same for Ayew, we're having a loan fee and we're getting a percentage of his wages paid. What percentage is that?
Clucas is going is he, or that's the will of the club is it? What are we expecting there and of course that's going to offset some, if not all of the other 2.
When Mawson goes it's also going to bring a huge relief to the books and yes, it's not easy getting the best value for some of the players we could do with leaving but we'll still be able to get good money for them.
Plus our dealings aren't finished yet and not by a long chalk it seems, so let's see where we are in a few weeks and how the position is looking then.
We've made some good contingency planning over the last few years by strengthening our under 23's and hopefully some of them will be able to break through this season and become real assets for us.
You've mentioned the drag on the stadium with maintenance costs but omitted to mention any benefits, aren't there any? Would we have got anything from Little Mix and the Killers this summer, will we again next summer? What about food and drinks, do we get no return from this? Conferences, hospitality?
It was always going to be difficult going down but people only focussing on the negatives is going to be our biggest hurdle to overcome. |
The percentage of his fee that we paid and is depreciating over the contract term if it come t9 an end without us selling him. So one quarter of £15m.
Same for Ayew.
Any amounts of salary that we don’t recover is on top of that.
Are there upsides to the stadium? Some. Small amounts though. And we have an annual lease cost on top of the big ticket stuff I mentioned. A cost that doesn’t fall on relegation (certain other costs do, such as provision of pitches for the local community). | | | |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:58 - Jul 29 with 1019 views | E20Jack |
| When will we actually get Huw Jenkins out of the club? on 16:51 - Jul 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Ah, so we’ve now introduced a concept called ‘normal cost’ . Which doesn’t exist. It’s perfectly possible to stay a few years in the premier league and not have a big financial cost of doing so.
You’re changing your point every few posts.
The last sentence - did you mean would or wouldn’t?
If you are asking would I take a long term financial hit for short term success. No, I wouldn’t. I can’t be clearer than that. I wouldn’t advocate it on buying a player we couldn’t afford so I wouldn’t advocate it on the club as a whole.
Now the rain has stopped so I am taking my dog out. So you can carry on if you wish. |
I think “normal” is perfectly reasonable explanation of our financial situation after 7 years. I am not changing my point in a single post let alone “every”, you are dancing around giving a straight answer (as you do) so I must find different ways of clarifying or asking. The point is the same however.
Why do you keep saying “if you are asking...” and then making up your own question to answer?
Can you provide us with a team who’s financial position was better upon relegation after 6/7/8 years than prior to going up then? If it is an occurance that should be expected to where the opposite is called a failure, it should be fairly common place.
I can’t think of one. Ask the dog maybe? | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
