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Big loss to Oxford. One of their top earners, and their fans seem to think he's moved for a better offer. He was out of contract, but had been in talks with them up to a week or so ago. Dead ball specialist...17 goals and good number of assists last season.
#bottomfourbudget strikes again.
Think I'll pop over to the bookies to get some money on the buckets.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 13:09 - Jul 20 with 6513 views
Another great signing. Surprised Bury are still out at 25/1 to win the league. For me they now have one of the top three squads in the league at least.
Tangled up in blue.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 13:57 - Jul 20 with 6368 views
They're doing a much better job of developing and selling on players than we've been doing recently. Don't think anyone can deny that. That said their wage bill will be massive compared to ours.
Still reckon playoffs at best for them. Clarke is an average manager. I'd take our midfield over theirs too.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 15:39 - Jul 20 with 6149 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 13:57 - Jul 20 by MancDale
They're doing a much better job of developing and selling on players than we've been doing recently. Don't think anyone can deny that. That said their wage bill will be massive compared to ours.
Still reckon playoffs at best for them. Clarke is an average manager. I'd take our midfield over theirs too.
Better job at developing players!!!!...id totally disagree with that comment.
Many of the players we've developed/developing are still currently around our first team squad with us not having to sell them cheap anytime soon either......
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Open cheque book still open!! on 15:51 - Jul 20 with 6107 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 15:39 - Jul 20 by nordenblue
Better job at developing players!!!!...id totally disagree with that comment.
Many of the players we've developed/developing are still currently around our first team squad with us not having to sell them cheap anytime soon either......
Emphasis there was on the selling part. For getting young players into our first team we're doing great and that's something to be proud of.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 15:57 - Jul 20 with 6082 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 15:39 - Jul 20 by nordenblue
Better job at developing players!!!!...id totally disagree with that comment.
Many of the players we've developed/developing are still currently around our first team squad with us not having to sell them cheap anytime soon either......
Think you'll find they still have plenty of youngsters around the first team squad - Styles, Tsun Dai, Shotton and Harker to name a few - with more coming through. Credit where credit is due, they are concentrating on other teams' cast-offs and bypassing developing the young kids, and they are finding some gems - either that or Stewie is an even bigger con artist than I thought he was if he can persuade other clubs to part with good money for duds.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 16:03 - Jul 20 with 6053 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 15:51 - Jul 20 by MancDale
Emphasis there was on the selling part. For getting young players into our first team we're doing great and that's something to be proud of.
These kids are worth far more having played regularly at league level like ours are doing currently...... unlike bury we don't need to sell them at the first sign of any interest though
Open cheque book still open!! on 15:57 - Jul 20 by Ernst_Stavro
Think you'll find they still have plenty of youngsters around the first team squad - Styles, Tsun Dai, Shotton and Harker to name a few - with more coming through. Credit where credit is due, they are concentrating on other teams' cast-offs and bypassing developing the young kids, and they are finding some gems - either that or Stewie is an even bigger con artist than I thought he was if he can persuade other clubs to part with good money for duds.
How many full games collectively do all them players mentioned currently have?
All well and good being "around" the first team,a massive difference actually getting proper game time
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Open cheque book still open!! on 17:22 - Jul 20 with 5848 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 16:06 - Jul 20 by nordenblue
These kids are worth far more having played regularly at league level like ours are doing currently...... unlike bury we don't need to sell them at the first sign of any interest though
Not sure I agree with that. Bury have racked up a few million for all of these kids, most of them without having played much first team football (or none whatsoever in some cases). With that money it appears they've now built one of the best squads in the division.
Would we have been better off shipping out the likes of Allen/Camps/Cannon as young kids based on their potential value instead of bringing them into the first team where over time it appears bigger clubs seem less convinced of their value?
Or have Bury genuinely found 6/7 (or maybe more if they have a few still in the first team picture) young kids worthy of Premier League/Championship potential all at the same time? I find that hard to believe. I doubt many of these kids will go on to be top players for the club's they've signed for, but PL and Champ clubs are willing to take a chance on a lot of young players for 500k, 600k in case they turn out to be top class.
Suggesting Bury needed to sell these players at the first sign of interest would suggest they're in dire straits financially. The signings they've made suggest to me that the money they're getting for players who weren't even in the first team picture is being invested in what is a very strong squad that could and probably should win promotion this season.
Tangled up in blue.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 17:37 - Jul 20 with 5796 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 17:22 - Jul 20 by AtThePeake
Not sure I agree with that. Bury have racked up a few million for all of these kids, most of them without having played much first team football (or none whatsoever in some cases). With that money it appears they've now built one of the best squads in the division.
Would we have been better off shipping out the likes of Allen/Camps/Cannon as young kids based on their potential value instead of bringing them into the first team where over time it appears bigger clubs seem less convinced of their value?
Or have Bury genuinely found 6/7 (or maybe more if they have a few still in the first team picture) young kids worthy of Premier League/Championship potential all at the same time? I find that hard to believe. I doubt many of these kids will go on to be top players for the club's they've signed for, but PL and Champ clubs are willing to take a chance on a lot of young players for 500k, 600k in case they turn out to be top class.
Suggesting Bury needed to sell these players at the first sign of interest would suggest they're in dire straits financially. The signings they've made suggest to me that the money they're getting for players who weren't even in the first team picture is being invested in what is a very strong squad that could and probably should win promotion this season.
Not sure it'll be a few million, it could be but most of these sales will be heavily loaded with add one. Sunderland papers saying 500k for Vaughan not 950k as well.
I do think bury have got some decent players in but we know the finances are perilous and debts keep on rising. We'll see whether the 5 year plan is successful. Personally I think they'll do ok but I can't see them going up.
Open cheque book still open!! on 17:22 - Jul 20 by AtThePeake
Not sure I agree with that. Bury have racked up a few million for all of these kids, most of them without having played much first team football (or none whatsoever in some cases). With that money it appears they've now built one of the best squads in the division.
Would we have been better off shipping out the likes of Allen/Camps/Cannon as young kids based on their potential value instead of bringing them into the first team where over time it appears bigger clubs seem less convinced of their value?
Or have Bury genuinely found 6/7 (or maybe more if they have a few still in the first team picture) young kids worthy of Premier League/Championship potential all at the same time? I find that hard to believe. I doubt many of these kids will go on to be top players for the club's they've signed for, but PL and Champ clubs are willing to take a chance on a lot of young players for 500k, 600k in case they turn out to be top class.
Suggesting Bury needed to sell these players at the first sign of interest would suggest they're in dire straits financially. The signings they've made suggest to me that the money they're getting for players who weren't even in the first team picture is being invested in what is a very strong squad that could and probably should win promotion this season.
Can't agree that it's a good model. They've received £1.5m or so in transfer fees this summer, fine. But as I've mentioned on Twitter, McGuire's contract alone is worth 500k over the 2 years, add onto that whatever bonuses he might have in there and you're looking at a lot more. That's just one player. I'd bet if you factor in Dawson and Beckford's wages, that 1.5m is gone. Now, where does the money for the rest of the squad go? Don't forget, also, that there's a £12.5m gap to plug from the last 4 seasons.
It's all well and good throwing players into the first team picture to lure bigger clubs in to spend money on them, but as most of them are being raved about when they're 16, a lot of them are going before bury can tie them down into a contract.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 17:48 - Jul 20 with 5756 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 17:40 - Jul 20 by Knowlesy
Can't agree that it's a good model. They've received £1.5m or so in transfer fees this summer, fine. But as I've mentioned on Twitter, McGuire's contract alone is worth 500k over the 2 years, add onto that whatever bonuses he might have in there and you're looking at a lot more. That's just one player. I'd bet if you factor in Dawson and Beckford's wages, that 1.5m is gone. Now, where does the money for the rest of the squad go? Don't forget, also, that there's a £12.5m gap to plug from the last 4 seasons.
It's all well and good throwing players into the first team picture to lure bigger clubs in to spend money on them, but as most of them are being raved about when they're 16, a lot of them are going before bury can tie them down into a contract.
Fair points - I'm not saying the model works completely by any stretch - but when are we going to have a summer where we bring in £1.5m in transfer fees?
Taking the money they've spent out of it, I think my point still stands in reply to Norden's comment about their value rising from first team football. I really don't think that's the case, I think clubs higher up the chain are more willing to take on chance on players who they've only seen a few times in case they turn into real stars whereas they might look at a Callum Camps for example and wonder why he's played 100 times for a lower league club and nobody else has signed him yet and thus be less likely to take a chance on him.
Tangled up in blue.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 18:14 - Jul 20 with 5671 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 17:48 - Jul 20 by AtThePeake
Fair points - I'm not saying the model works completely by any stretch - but when are we going to have a summer where we bring in £1.5m in transfer fees?
Taking the money they've spent out of it, I think my point still stands in reply to Norden's comment about their value rising from first team football. I really don't think that's the case, I think clubs higher up the chain are more willing to take on chance on players who they've only seen a few times in case they turn into real stars whereas they might look at a Callum Camps for example and wonder why he's played 100 times for a lower league club and nobody else has signed him yet and thus be less likely to take a chance on him.
Turning into an interesting thread this, and the more I think about it ATP has a point below. Are teams looking at the fact Allen/camps/rafferty have notched up over 100 games each, but as other teams haven't seriously sniffed then they have reached their level?
I'm obviously biased but I think all 3 could fit into championship teams and add value to the squad. Problem is scouts mustn't share my opinion as there's are scouts at all our games, yet no serious bids for any of the 3 above.
So does a kid who's raved about, maybe excelling at youth level and built up by there club to break into the first team (without actually doing so) represent better value, do they see these as easier to coach into their ways, being so young? Realistically 500-750k is nothing for a PL team, and in my opinion they gobble up loads of kids with 99% spat back out. It just isn't a gamble for a PL team.
I'm happy with what we do, we don't appear the pushovers we once were and we must be the kings of the add on clause! I'd take our model/football & business ethics over any other.
Up the Dale
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Open cheque book still open!! on 18:20 - Jul 20 with 5635 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 17:48 - Jul 20 by AtThePeake
Fair points - I'm not saying the model works completely by any stretch - but when are we going to have a summer where we bring in £1.5m in transfer fees?
Taking the money they've spent out of it, I think my point still stands in reply to Norden's comment about their value rising from first team football. I really don't think that's the case, I think clubs higher up the chain are more willing to take on chance on players who they've only seen a few times in case they turn into real stars whereas they might look at a Callum Camps for example and wonder why he's played 100 times for a lower league club and nobody else has signed him yet and thus be less likely to take a chance on him.
Your last point is an interesting one (not that the others aren't!) but Camps, and perhaps Allen too, have been looked at by quite a number of clubs over the past couple of seasons but no-one's really made an offer we can't refuse. The longer that continues, the less likely it becomes, imo
Both could make it into the championship, but it's just as likely to be with Dale than anyone else
As for the bury issue, I stand by the point I made a few weeks ago when their summer signings started to roll in. They're all good players, but a bunch of good players doesn't make a team. Are they collectively any better than Sheff Utd in the previous 2/3 seasons prior to promotion? Doubt it. I don't think they'll achieve what Day's expecting, but if they do, good luck to them
Open cheque book still open!! on 18:20 - Jul 20 by D_Alien
Your last point is an interesting one (not that the others aren't!) but Camps, and perhaps Allen too, have been looked at by quite a number of clubs over the past couple of seasons but no-one's really made an offer we can't refuse. The longer that continues, the less likely it becomes, imo
Both could make it into the championship, but it's just as likely to be with Dale than anyone else
As for the bury issue, I stand by the point I made a few weeks ago when their summer signings started to roll in. They're all good players, but a bunch of good players doesn't make a team. Are they collectively any better than Sheff Utd in the previous 2/3 seasons prior to promotion? Doubt it. I don't think they'll achieve what Day's expecting, but if they do, good luck to them
[Post edited 20 Jul 2017 18:23]
Would another team's manager not look at our players and wonder whether they are good player or whether its just a case that Keith Hill has got them playing well? You wouldn't want to spend big on someone if they key to that success was the manager they are under rather than the actual ability of the player. I know there should have been sufficient players who have gone on to much bigger and better things elsewhere after playing under Hill that it shouldn't be an issue but I'd have thought it must be a nagging doubt for other clubs.
This post has been edited by an administrator
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Open cheque book still open!! on 18:50 - Jul 20 with 5515 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 18:20 - Jul 20 by D_Alien
Your last point is an interesting one (not that the others aren't!) but Camps, and perhaps Allen too, have been looked at by quite a number of clubs over the past couple of seasons but no-one's really made an offer we can't refuse. The longer that continues, the less likely it becomes, imo
Both could make it into the championship, but it's just as likely to be with Dale than anyone else
As for the bury issue, I stand by the point I made a few weeks ago when their summer signings started to roll in. They're all good players, but a bunch of good players doesn't make a team. Are they collectively any better than Sheff Utd in the previous 2/3 seasons prior to promotion? Doubt it. I don't think they'll achieve what Day's expecting, but if they do, good luck to them
[Post edited 20 Jul 2017 18:23]
Good point about Camps and Allen both being capable of playing in the Championship and probably with ourselves. Over the last couple of years we have had enough good players at the Club to follow Burton in to the higher league. We've had real quality in midfield and also in attack, our goal scoring record shows that.
The elephant in the room though is Hills inability to put together a solid defence, players who you can rely on. Conceding at set pieces and regular individual errors is a common theme, we've become accustomed to it. You can also throw the goalkeeping situation into the mix, farcical at times.
The midfield and forwards have done their job but have all too often been let down by the defence.The one component of the team that Hilly and his coaching staff haven't been able to improve, it's a shame.
[Post edited 20 Jul 2017 18:55]
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Open cheque book still open!! on 19:16 - Jul 20 with 5412 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 18:31 - Jul 20 by ColDale
Would another team's manager not look at our players and wonder whether they are good player or whether its just a case that Keith Hill has got them playing well? You wouldn't want to spend big on someone if they key to that success was the manager they are under rather than the actual ability of the player. I know there should have been sufficient players who have gone on to much bigger and better things elsewhere after playing under Hill that it shouldn't be an issue but I'd have thought it must be a nagging doubt for other clubs.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Not sure there's much weight in that,if the players genuinely good enough any manger worth his crust will get them playing too,we sometimes put Hilly as some sort of god like figure on here when in reality there's a good few others out there very good at their job too up and down the country......
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Open cheque book still open!! on 19:20 - Jul 20 with 5394 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 17:22 - Jul 20 by AtThePeake
Not sure I agree with that. Bury have racked up a few million for all of these kids, most of them without having played much first team football (or none whatsoever in some cases). With that money it appears they've now built one of the best squads in the division.
Would we have been better off shipping out the likes of Allen/Camps/Cannon as young kids based on their potential value instead of bringing them into the first team where over time it appears bigger clubs seem less convinced of their value?
Or have Bury genuinely found 6/7 (or maybe more if they have a few still in the first team picture) young kids worthy of Premier League/Championship potential all at the same time? I find that hard to believe. I doubt many of these kids will go on to be top players for the club's they've signed for, but PL and Champ clubs are willing to take a chance on a lot of young players for 500k, 600k in case they turn out to be top class.
Suggesting Bury needed to sell these players at the first sign of interest would suggest they're in dire straits financially. The signings they've made suggest to me that the money they're getting for players who weren't even in the first team picture is being invested in what is a very strong squad that could and probably should win promotion this season.
Are there any links to the "few million quid" they've racked up for these kids because I personally haven't seen reports anywhere near them sort of figures.
Bury ARE in dire straits financially thats not even open to debate,and continuing to increase by all reports.Their recent signings certainly won't be reducing their wage bill either
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Open cheque book still open!! on 19:45 - Jul 20 with 5318 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 19:20 - Jul 20 by nordenblue
Are there any links to the "few million quid" they've racked up for these kids because I personally haven't seen reports anywhere near them sort of figures.
Bury ARE in dire straits financially thats not even open to debate,and continuing to increase by all reports.Their recent signings certainly won't be reducing their wage bill either
With the FPPP laws aren't the fees (for buying/selling kids) fixed so it's almost impossible to make millions.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 20:04 - Jul 20 with 5249 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 15:57 - Jul 20 by Ernst_Stavro
Think you'll find they still have plenty of youngsters around the first team squad - Styles, Tsun Dai, Shotton and Harker to name a few - with more coming through. Credit where credit is due, they are concentrating on other teams' cast-offs and bypassing developing the young kids, and they are finding some gems - either that or Stewie is an even bigger con artist than I thought he was if he can persuade other clubs to part with good money for duds.
I'd hardly describe the likes of Edwards, Beckford, Dawson, Maguire, Skarkz et al as 'cast-offs'.
They've all joined Bury for one reason and one reason alone, however they may spin it.
[Post edited 20 Jul 2017 20:42]
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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Open cheque book still open!! on 20:41 - Jul 20 with 5159 views
I'm getting a strange feeling of de ja vu here. Feels exactly like last season. My guess is they will start flying again, then one loss and all the high earning prima dona's wont want to know as they will feel they should be playing at a higher level.
Clarke is a complete tvvat anyhow and will blame all and sundry for the dissapointing run, he'll be off in February. Big Stuey will try to reassure Bury fans to be patient and wait another season.
Open cheque book still open!! on 20:04 - Jul 20 by TVOS1907
I'd hardly describe the likes of Edwards, Beckford, Dawson, Maguire, Skarkz et al as 'cast-offs'.
They've all joined Bury for one reason and one reason alone, however they may spin it.
[Post edited 20 Jul 2017 20:42]
It was other teams' cast-off kids I was referring to, not Beckford etc. Bury's 'youth policy' is not about bringing 9 year olds through 6 years of academy, it's about letting other teams do that and then identifying the ones that got away. For example, Styles was released by Burnley, Tsun Dai was with Reading last season, Bedeau was let go by Orient.
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Open cheque book still open!! on 21:02 - Jul 20 with 5078 views
Open cheque book still open!! on 20:41 - Jul 20 by rochedale
I'm getting a strange feeling of de ja vu here. Feels exactly like last season. My guess is they will start flying again, then one loss and all the high earning prima dona's wont want to know as they will feel they should be playing at a higher level.
Clarke is a complete tvvat anyhow and will blame all and sundry for the dissapointing run, he'll be off in February. Big Stuey will try to reassure Bury fans to be patient and wait another season.
Stop worrying about your mighty neighbours, in a few weeks you can masterbate over the 3 points you get at spotty. It's only a game
Gissa job
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Open cheque book still open!! on 21:05 - Jul 20 with 5058 views
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