By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Well it looked like Obama flying all the way over to tell us to stay in (so his corporate chums can inflict TTIP on us ending our democracy) would be this week's winner. But Alistair Campbell's 'Putin and ISIS' (cracking combo) has smashed him out of the park. Putin and ISIS...brilliant.
Honourable mentions go to the 8 former US Treasury secretaries who wrote to The Times warning that Brexit was a threat to our 'special relationship'.
If they're at this level now they must have some serious sh1t planned for the next few weeks.
Stay calm and do some proper research about TTIP.
6
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 10:26 - May 4 with 2734 views
Another 8 weeks of this..lets just flop our hamptons out on the slack, and get 'only here for the niko' to measure the mean mode and median length of LFW Outers and remainers.
I'll start off, 8 inches and 26 millimeters. According to Scotty uncle blobs hung like a donkey so were off to a good start .
The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
0
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 10:36 - May 4 with 2714 views
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 10:26 - May 4 by Discodroids
Another 8 weeks of this..lets just flop our hamptons out on the slack, and get 'only here for the niko' to measure the mean mode and median length of LFW Outers and remainers.
I'll start off, 8 inches and 26 millimeters. According to Scotty uncle blobs hung like a donkey so were off to a good start .
Is that 8 inches wide and 26 mm long?
1
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 10:42 - May 4 with 2706 views
...back on topic. Looking at that blog in the Independent it scares the bejeesus until you get nearer the end when it says:-
"President Hollande announced this weekend that France will veto any TTIP agreement that could endanger the country’s agricultural sector. Germany’s economy minister Sigmar Gabriel has also spoken publicly of TTIP collapsing, and has pointed the finger at US intransigence as the cause. When politicians start playing the blame game in this way, you know they are already preparing their exit strategies. The writing is on the wall."
So TTIP looks dead and is not relevant. Thanks to the EU, our government (who seem to have been bending over silently for the Americans) can't do a crappy deal.
Conclusion:- If you don't want to be bullied by America - stay in the EU and be bullied by them instead (but almost, sort of democratically)
1
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 11:52 - May 4 with 2646 views
I just want confirmation of who is carrying out the vote counting.I'm hearing it's being outsourced to a European firm run by George Soros? In which case.....
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 11:52 - May 4 by TheBlob
I just want confirmation of who is carrying out the vote counting.I'm hearing it's being outsourced to a European firm run by George Soros? In which case.....
Local volunteers as usual surely?
0
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 12:06 - May 4 with 2632 views
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 10:14 - May 4 by CiderwithRsie
Apple: can't produce a new product to save their lives Google: who uses it? Amazon: a doomed business model Uber: no chance of that taking off if they try to export it to any country with a well-established taxi system Facebook, twitter: completely skint Microsoft: Can't find two pennies to rub together Hollywood: culturally irrelevant, no-one watches that stuff McDonalds: over
What you have listed is a who's who of global multinational corporations, experts is avoiding tax wherever they function and assisting in the current wealth grab by the world's richest people and organisations, all of whom just happen to have started up in the US. They are not the US economy, a national debt of nearly 20 trillion dollars is the US economy.
Listing them to try and prove that the US economy is doing well is like naming Charlie Austin as proof that our relegated team last year were a great side.
That aside I admit that all 'economies' are f*cked because apparently the whole world is in debt! (Looking forward to everyone waking up to that one, then we can really start sorting ourselves out.)
On the TTIP front, firstly as someone who has actively been campaigning against it for years now I am extremely pleased to see it getting a more public profile with a general response of abhorrence to its aims and structures.
However I'm also well aware that the likes of Hollande suddenly declaring that he will oppose it are highly suspect, that wasn't his angle back in meetings with Obama in 2014. - “We have everything to gain from moving rapidly forward, otherwise we well know that the fears, threats and tension will build.”
Usually when public opposition ( they pulled out all the stops to keep details from us) hits a certain critical point, the powers that be normally declare it to be no longer happening and then quietly attempt to reintroduce it under a different name and/or in several different new pieces of legislation. (I think Brian Mac has previously posted on such a thing re Ireland and the EU/Euro.) They ALWAYS find a way to get something that they are this keen on through so stay vigilant. Something they've worked that long on and in such desperate secrecy does not just go away.
1
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 13:18 - May 4 with 2586 views
What you have listed is a who's who of global multinational corporations, experts is avoiding tax wherever they function and assisting in the current wealth grab by the world's richest people and organisations, all of whom just happen to have started up in the US. They are not the US economy, a national debt of nearly 20 trillion dollars is the US economy.
Listing them to try and prove that the US economy is doing well is like naming Charlie Austin as proof that our relegated team last year were a great side.
That aside I admit that all 'economies' are f*cked because apparently the whole world is in debt! (Looking forward to everyone waking up to that one, then we can really start sorting ourselves out.)
On the TTIP front, firstly as someone who has actively been campaigning against it for years now I am extremely pleased to see it getting a more public profile with a general response of abhorrence to its aims and structures.
However I'm also well aware that the likes of Hollande suddenly declaring that he will oppose it are highly suspect, that wasn't his angle back in meetings with Obama in 2014. - “We have everything to gain from moving rapidly forward, otherwise we well know that the fears, threats and tension will build.”
Usually when public opposition ( they pulled out all the stops to keep details from us) hits a certain critical point, the powers that be normally declare it to be no longer happening and then quietly attempt to reintroduce it under a different name and/or in several different new pieces of legislation. (I think Brian Mac has previously posted on such a thing re Ireland and the EU/Euro.) They ALWAYS find a way to get something that they are this keen on through so stay vigilant. Something they've worked that long on and in such desperate secrecy does not just go away.
National debt has very little to do with economic performance.
Britain invented the concept of national debt - no-one had one before we invented it in the 17th century. (At which point, incidentally, Spain had the biggest reserves of that yellow shiny stuff Blob's so keen on.) Within a century or so we were the biggest empire in the world powered by the biggest economy and the Spanish were fecked. It's not a coincidence, the national debt was a major tool in the creation of the empire, which is why everyone else copied it.
An economy that is doing well is one where wealth is made. Wealth is stuff people want. We did it better than anyone else during the industrial revolution, which made us the biggest empire and economy in the world. Now others do it. China and India do it plenty because they make the physical stuff cheaply; the US does it by creating intangibles and ideas - film, music, the internet, a way of booking a cab. They all make money for the US.
I don't like the tax dodging and exploitation of those companies any more than you do. But those companies and loads like them are the US economy - collectively they are its business sector. The national debt is part of the government, a completely different thing. As a good lefty like myself I'm surprised you've bought into this "oh we must all pay off the debt like good housewives or we're screwed" baloney - its complete t*ss, government finances don't work like that because governments aren't housewives. It is convenient as a way of persuading people that austerity is inevitable, mind. But refusing to bow down to that orthodoxy is why Obama's US has been leading the world out of the last recession and the EU hasn't.
And they don't just "happen" to have started in the USA. The internet was invented by a Brit but the people making money out of it are in the USA. Same with pretty much all the other ways of making money out of computing (also a British invention, by and large) which have transformed economic activity in my lifetime - the ideas and intellectual property is in the US, the physical stuff is made in Asia. Its not an accident, it really really isn't.
And unless it changes the US will continue to be a big economy, probably the world biggest, for the foreseeable future. Claiming otherwise and that "no-one wants to do business with the US" is simply fantasy. TBH if I was arguing for Brexit Wouldn't touch this line of argument with bargepole, it blows any credibility on economic matters whatsoever. You've much better grounds on the democratic deficit and tortuous decision making.
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 10:26 - May 4 by Discodroids
Another 8 weeks of this..lets just flop our hamptons out on the slack, and get 'only here for the niko' to measure the mean mode and median length of LFW Outers and remainers.
I'll start off, 8 inches and 26 millimeters. According to Scotty uncle blobs hung like a donkey so were off to a good start .
Nice idea, or alternatively, the outcome could be decided using belomancy. If it was good enough for the Babylonians, then it's good enough for our world of Facebook posts about being at the gym, tax evasion, and fighting each other in the crush to buy the cut price tellies.
PS: Disco, any reason why you're mixing imperial and metric? Was there an EU edict about manhood measurements? Or has a morning spent listening to ELP pulped my already feeble brain?
RFA
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
0
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 13:43 - May 4 with 2539 views
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 10:26 - May 4 by Discodroids
Another 8 weeks of this..lets just flop our hamptons out on the slack, and get 'only here for the niko' to measure the mean mode and median length of LFW Outers and remainers.
I'll start off, 8 inches and 26 millimeters. According to Scotty uncle blobs hung like a donkey so were off to a good start .
ha, I just wandered onto page 9 to see what was sort of debacle the thread had descended into and look what I see! I'm an outy and I've got a big fat 0 inches so no help at all to the cause. And how come I don't get the nomination as official measurer - I used to work in Foster menswear so am a dab hand with that tape measure - mind you Blob wouldn't be happy
0
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 13:53 - May 4 with 2523 views
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 10:51 - May 4 by hoof_hearted
...back on topic. Looking at that blog in the Independent it scares the bejeesus until you get nearer the end when it says:-
"President Hollande announced this weekend that France will veto any TTIP agreement that could endanger the country’s agricultural sector. Germany’s economy minister Sigmar Gabriel has also spoken publicly of TTIP collapsing, and has pointed the finger at US intransigence as the cause. When politicians start playing the blame game in this way, you know they are already preparing their exit strategies. The writing is on the wall."
So TTIP looks dead and is not relevant. Thanks to the EU, our government (who seem to have been bending over silently for the Americans) can't do a crappy deal.
Conclusion:- If you don't want to be bullied by America - stay in the EU and be bullied by them instead (but almost, sort of democratically)
"So TTIP looks dead and is not relevant"
The residual relevance of TTIP is that if the world's no 1 economy is offering a deal then the world's number 5 economy has to think carefully before telling them to b*gger off; but a trading bloc which is collectively the same size as the US says "no" then the US has not much leverage.
1
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 14:51 - May 4 with 2500 views
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 13:18 - May 4 by CiderwithRsie
National debt has very little to do with economic performance.
Britain invented the concept of national debt - no-one had one before we invented it in the 17th century. (At which point, incidentally, Spain had the biggest reserves of that yellow shiny stuff Blob's so keen on.) Within a century or so we were the biggest empire in the world powered by the biggest economy and the Spanish were fecked. It's not a coincidence, the national debt was a major tool in the creation of the empire, which is why everyone else copied it.
An economy that is doing well is one where wealth is made. Wealth is stuff people want. We did it better than anyone else during the industrial revolution, which made us the biggest empire and economy in the world. Now others do it. China and India do it plenty because they make the physical stuff cheaply; the US does it by creating intangibles and ideas - film, music, the internet, a way of booking a cab. They all make money for the US.
I don't like the tax dodging and exploitation of those companies any more than you do. But those companies and loads like them are the US economy - collectively they are its business sector. The national debt is part of the government, a completely different thing. As a good lefty like myself I'm surprised you've bought into this "oh we must all pay off the debt like good housewives or we're screwed" baloney - its complete t*ss, government finances don't work like that because governments aren't housewives. It is convenient as a way of persuading people that austerity is inevitable, mind. But refusing to bow down to that orthodoxy is why Obama's US has been leading the world out of the last recession and the EU hasn't.
And they don't just "happen" to have started in the USA. The internet was invented by a Brit but the people making money out of it are in the USA. Same with pretty much all the other ways of making money out of computing (also a British invention, by and large) which have transformed economic activity in my lifetime - the ideas and intellectual property is in the US, the physical stuff is made in Asia. Its not an accident, it really really isn't.
And unless it changes the US will continue to be a big economy, probably the world biggest, for the foreseeable future. Claiming otherwise and that "no-one wants to do business with the US" is simply fantasy. TBH if I was arguing for Brexit Wouldn't touch this line of argument with bargepole, it blows any credibility on economic matters whatsoever. You've much better grounds on the democratic deficit and tortuous decision making.
I want to be careful we don't drift off into our individual view of the details of economics but a couple of things.
Firstly,
" As a good lefty like myself I'm surprised you've bought into this "oh we must all pay off the debt like good housewives or we're screwed" baloney - its complete t*ss, government finances don't work like that because governments aren't housewives. It is convenient as a way of persuading people that austerity is inevitable, mind. "
From that I take it you haven't read my earlier posts in the thread. I'm the last person to think we should be paying off our 'debt' because I don't even believe in its existence! You are quite right about it being used as a tool to enforce austerity ( or pretending to people that they have to stop/reduce looking after themselves as a community, expect lowering living standards/conditions and be more grateful for the ever lessening crumbs they receive from the top table as I prefer to call it!)
As I always say, how can the whole world be in debt to institutions that exist within them? It is a manipulated illusion that (nearly) everyone buys into.
I posted the debt clock merely to show that IF one believes in the 'economy' as it is presented to us then there is no such thing as a truly healthy one because the whole world is in debt. Just look at the living and working conditions prevalent in the two countries you list as currently doing it well.
My point about the companies you listed was that they are not the US economy, they may exist partially within it but as global corporations they pay (or more like avoid) tax into each individual country that they operate in.
The tech companies and their 'ideas and intellectual property' are global. Interestingly enough I saw a good documentary recently on the economic and social changes in San Francisco focusing on the tech companies moving in and the disintegration of the existing communities and the acceleration of economic disparity and the issues about the US being unable to collect correct levels of tax from them. It highlighted my point of the success of these companies being about them and not the US as a whole.
We already 'trade' with all of those companies you listed, in or out changes nothing there. TTIP, as we both know, would change things but it appears that the waters of which vote makes that more likely have been successfully muddied.
Best documentary you'll see on the creation of debt.
0
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 14:55 - May 4 with 2496 views
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 13:43 - May 4 by scot1963
ha, I just wandered onto page 9 to see what was sort of debacle the thread had descended into and look what I see! I'm an outy and I've got a big fat 0 inches so no help at all to the cause. And how come I don't get the nomination as official measurer - I used to work in Foster menswear so am a dab hand with that tape measure - mind you Blob wouldn't be happy
{mops sweat off brow}
The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
0
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 14:58 - May 4 with 2489 views
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 13:32 - May 4 by R_from_afar
Nice idea, or alternatively, the outcome could be decided using belomancy. If it was good enough for the Babylonians, then it's good enough for our world of Facebook posts about being at the gym, tax evasion, and fighting each other in the crush to buy the cut price tellies.
PS: Disco, any reason why you're mixing imperial and metric? Was there an EU edict about manhood measurements? Or has a morning spent listening to ELP pulped my already feeble brain?
RFA
i didnt realise i had mixed imperial and metric until you pointed it out so to speak.
got to appreciate the diversity of LFW Opinions ..we really should celebrate its diversity of writing styles by dressing up in saris like a middle class aunt at a wedding, then going to a Keith Vaz diversity Disco , and tossing off haughtily into the punch.
Nothing wrong with a bit of ELP.
The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
1
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 22:18 - May 4 with 2424 views
Brexit Fear Mongering Of The Week on 14:51 - May 4 by 1BobbyHazell
I want to be careful we don't drift off into our individual view of the details of economics but a couple of things.
Firstly,
" As a good lefty like myself I'm surprised you've bought into this "oh we must all pay off the debt like good housewives or we're screwed" baloney - its complete t*ss, government finances don't work like that because governments aren't housewives. It is convenient as a way of persuading people that austerity is inevitable, mind. "
From that I take it you haven't read my earlier posts in the thread. I'm the last person to think we should be paying off our 'debt' because I don't even believe in its existence! You are quite right about it being used as a tool to enforce austerity ( or pretending to people that they have to stop/reduce looking after themselves as a community, expect lowering living standards/conditions and be more grateful for the ever lessening crumbs they receive from the top table as I prefer to call it!)
As I always say, how can the whole world be in debt to institutions that exist within them? It is a manipulated illusion that (nearly) everyone buys into.
I posted the debt clock merely to show that IF one believes in the 'economy' as it is presented to us then there is no such thing as a truly healthy one because the whole world is in debt. Just look at the living and working conditions prevalent in the two countries you list as currently doing it well.
My point about the companies you listed was that they are not the US economy, they may exist partially within it but as global corporations they pay (or more like avoid) tax into each individual country that they operate in.
The tech companies and their 'ideas and intellectual property' are global. Interestingly enough I saw a good documentary recently on the economic and social changes in San Francisco focusing on the tech companies moving in and the disintegration of the existing communities and the acceleration of economic disparity and the issues about the US being unable to collect correct levels of tax from them. It highlighted my point of the success of these companies being about them and not the US as a whole.
We already 'trade' with all of those companies you listed, in or out changes nothing there. TTIP, as we both know, would change things but it appears that the waters of which vote makes that more likely have been successfully muddied.
Best documentary you'll see on the creation of debt.
Fair enough, Mr Hazell.
Very good documentary series on Radio 4 about debt a few months back, including odd aspects such as a whole programme on "religion and debt' Apparently the "trespasses" in the Lord's Prayer could equally be translate as debts, and some interesting Hindu stuff which I've now forgotten. Have to see if I can find it online somewhere....
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
