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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 09:54 - Apr 1 by Kerouac
Unfortunately it's not that simple.
Wales has been in receipt of the maximum level of European Structural funds (Objective 1) 3 times in a row. These monies were distributed unevenly around Wales....for example the top beneficiary, Gwynedd, received 4x as much money as the lowest, Bridgend. Unfortunately these moneys have largely been wasted. See here for some reasons; http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/fairer-share-out-millions-vital-sec
This is Welsh Labour's fault, for not having a coherent strategy and funnelling too large a percentage of this money towards the public sector instead of using it on projects that could encourage the private sector.
However, the monies Welsh Labour has put into Cardiff has made an obvious difference and has easily measurable benefits....this is because private sector investment is easier to obtain in a city like Cardiff for obvious reasons.
So the money required to set the scene in Swansea, West Wales, North Wales and the Valleys for more wealth creation has already been there but has been spent unwisely by Welsh Labour. (see hear for evidence as to what a staggering failure this is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-15295224 "It is one of a handful of places (in Europe) to get poorer after two rounds of funding.") We have Objective 1 funding, for a THIRD(!) time (another £2 billion) over the course of this Assembly......some people would have you believe that this is good news for Wales. What it is in fact is evidence of incredibly poor government....so the money is there to improve the infrastructure which could attract more private businesses and private investment to parts of Wales outside Cardiff.
If the Lib Dems won at the Assembly elections (highly, highly improbable due to the electorate sucking up the shit hurled at us by the likes of Labour and Plaid Cymru for forming a coalition with the Tories at the UK level) we would spend this European funding more wisely, folllowing a coherent strategy to grow the local economies of Wales. This is consistent with our overall philosophy. We have always been the party of localism and are all about allowing local people (who know best) more responsibility for decisions re: their city/town/region
Plaid Cymru in the Assembly wouldn't make a blind bit of difference in this respect. They wouldn't be seen dead cutting public sector/third sector funding to re allocate funds towards encouraging private business and indeed they have already been part of a coalition in the Assembly. What was their record like?
The Lib Dems are always thinking about how we can grow the economy in places like Swansea and come up with realistic, practical policy to achieve these aims.
Here are the words of a very sensible Peter Black back in 2010.....you will note that what we said then is what we say now. Consistent practical solutions;
PETER BLACK: FUNDING LOCAL GOVERNMENT IN WALES WEDNESDAY, 7TH APRIL, 2010
Budgets have been set, Council Tax bills have gone out, Council officers are evaluating how they will be delivering services in the current financial year, whilst Councillors and other politicians continue to squabble over some of the very difficult decisions that have needed to be made to make the books balance.
A quick web search reveals a scene of such devastation that one would be forgiven for thinking that the public sector is on the verge of collapse. Nothing could be further from the truth, but what is clear is that the very deep cuts that many Councils have made in the current financial year appear to be just the start of what seems to be local government retrenchment.
As BBC Wales reported, with one in four workers in Wales employed in the public sector the impact of projected budgets cuts could see devastation on a scale not seen since the Thatcher years. Their worse case scenario is that about a third of Council jobs may go. The Welsh Local Government Association (WLGA) has described this as the most difficult financial period in 50 years. They have forecast that 2,000 to 4,000 council jobs could go, with some over the next three to four years.
This will impact regardless of political control. In Labour-led Rhondda Cynon Taf the Council is trying to save £6m by cutting Leisure Centre opening times and public transport. Conservative-led Newport is being forced to make £9m of savings, Independent-Plaid Cymru Anglesey is cutting £10m and there is a reported threat to day care centres, whilst in Conwy their worst case scenario is £6.095m of savings in the 2011/12 financial year, £8.15m of savings in 2012/13 and £10.55m in 2013/14.
Plaid Cymru-led Caerphilly Council has a £25m savings target by 2015, whilst in Liberal Democrat-led Swansea, the Council has invested £10 million in Social Services at the cost of cutting back on schools. They are now in the position of having to manage teacher redundancies so as to minimise the impact on the chalk face. Swansea had to save £17m this year and projects losing hundreds of posts over the next few years.
Many will say that all of this is inevitable in a situation where Britain is in debt and severe budget cuts are going to be the order of the day for years to come. They may be right. Some see it as an opportunity to play games. The Education Minister’s response to Swansea’s budget for example has been to write to the Council to demand an explanation. In return he is being pointed to the lack of investment in education in Wales as compared to England. Here we are being funded at £527 per pupil less than over the border.
The Minister suggests that if Swansea repeats this next year then he will personally intervene. Meanwhile, one of his colleagues, the Deputy Minister for Social Services is rightly insisting that we invest in children’s services. Neither is offering to increase the pot of money available to the Council.
In the case of the Education Minister at least, a startling new agenda for public services is being unveiled — micro management from the centre irrespective of what the local electorate or the accountable local councillors want.
I would argue that some of the problem faced by Councils in reconciling budgets is structural, the rest comes down to a failure to plan for the years of drought during a time of plenty.
Up to 80% of a Council’s income comes directly from central government grant. Of the remaining 20%, a significant proportion is made up of local fees and charges. As a result the impact of a Council Tax increase is very limited whilst local authorities are peculiarly vulnerable to national trends in expenditure. To start making a difference to the budget Councils would need to be raising their tax levels well above the 5% cap the Welsh Government annually imposes on them.
When we look at expenditure too, there are significant issues. At least half of all Council’s expenditure will go on education. The next significant chunk will be for social services, with spending on highways and leisure trailing behind. The scope for savings without hitting front-line services becomes more difficult the more we cut.
There are of course possibilities that money can be saved by restructuring the way that Councils are run, or even by reducing the number of Councils and achieving economies of scale in that way. Councils could collaborate with other public sector bodies in their area to merge back-office systems for example. The problem is that this has been Welsh Government policy for some time and to a large extent it has not been happening, not least because there needs to be an initial investment to get it off the ground and nobody wants to relinquish control.
Councils also need to look at methods of working. Are they getting value for money out of the way they deploy staff? Are there still restrictive practices that can be got rid of? None of this is very attractive but the alternative is redundancies. Many still do not get this reality and are resisting even this sort of change.
Should Councils really be delivering all their services themselves? There is already a long history of local government using private contractors to repair roads, collect refuse, build and repair schools and council buildings. Is there scope to do more? It does not have to amount to privatisation if it is done correctly.
Can Councils really afford for example to deliver residential homes to today’s exacting standards when for example an arms-length trust could do it better? Can they afford to ignore the savings in VAT by letting a similar company run its leisure buildings? If we do not start to question long-held assumptions about the way that Council services are delivered then we will have none left worth having. All of this takes time and is not without considerable pain. It is though an essential investment in the future of public services.
The biggest crisis facing most Welsh Councils is the cost of modernisation and repair of their existing facilities to bring them up to current health and safety standards. Whether it is schools, old people’s homes, children’s homes, Council offices or roads and street lamps, our infrastructure is rotting around us and there is not enough money to put it right. That sort of investment is becoming urgent and all Councils are having to innovate and cut back on favoured projects to find ways around it.
Of course the bigger structural change has to come in the way that Council’s are financed. The Liberal Democrats have long made the case to replace the unfair Council Tax with one based on people’s ability to pay. If that is a local income tax then at least we can then make some sort of adjustment to ensure more money is collected locally without impacting on people’s pockets. You would for example reduce income tax by a penny and put that penny on local income tax instead. The result would be revenue neutral but redress the funding imbalance.
If Business Rates are to stay then they too should be localised again. This would mean that Councils could keep all the income generated in their area and give them an incentive to improve the take by attracting more businesses or building up the value of existing companies.
None of these revenue-side reforms will actually give more money to local Councils but it will put them more in control of their own destiny and enable them to act more fairly in the way that they tax their local electorate. In the current climate that must be a good thing.
Cllr Peter Black AM is Swansea Councillor for Cwmbwrla and
Welsh Assembly Member for South Wales West. He is also the
Welsh Liberal Democrat Local Government Spokespersonpeterblack.blogspot.com
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, and indeed, would vote Lib Dem at the next GE, a vote for them now is a wasted vote. Also, whilst I agree that Black was very anti-establishment and often highlighted the disparity in investment, look at what the current council has done with the exact same absence of funding - showed far greater ambition to regenerate Swansea.
Perhaps you're right, perhaps Plaid won't redistribute wealth, but at the moment, they're the only party which has said they'll stop another billion of public money going to the South East, and will give greater public funding to the rest of Wales in terms of investment. In Swansea, we badly need that money for our city centre regeneration and the continued expansion of SA1 etc.
The South East gets enough, they're already getting a city deal, they don't need a relief road as well. We need that investment, and until stated otherwise by the Lib Dems, Plaid are the only party which has voiced support and legislation for enacting this.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 08:58 - Mar 30 by CopperJack
If Labour were so concerned about winning the election, then they shouldn't have neglected their core supporters for the past 2 decades. They've got into power and turned their back on the working class and instead, started giving more jobs, more opportunities to the people who already have them. Cardiff doesn't need more investment, but it still gets more than the rest of Wales combined.
On 5 Live this morning, Nicky Campbell asked Carywn Jones whether Port Talbot should've been so dependent on one industry, should the WAG have encouraged diversification in the job sector there? He asked him twice. Both times, Carywn spoke about job creation in/near Cardiff. Absolute disgrace.
That idiot Miliband sumed up the complete disjoint between the London labour loveies and the working man and woman in the street. Clueless. Talked of border guards between england and Scotland. Ensured a Tory win. Labour have not earned the support of welsh people, its taken for granted. I will be voting Plaid to shake things up a bit.
Beware of the Risen People
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:58 - Apr 2 with 1891 views
I posted a week or so ago about a letter of mine that was printed in the EP. In case you didn't see them there were two letters in response.
The first was from (Labour) Councillor Clive Lloyd and I just can't believe that Labour politicians are still writing the same stuff after so many years. Yet again he refers to the Museum and the National Pool. When are they going to realise that it's time to talk about now not about history. Out of curiosity, because i'd forgotten, I checked out the new pool in Cardiff. Because they couldn't call it the National pool they decided on calling it the Cardiff INTERnational Pool. I never see any mention from these politicians about the fact it cost three times the amount of our pool. That's probably because it's been superceded by about fifty other developments in Cardiff costing far more.
The second one simply says forget about Project Swansea because local councillors would be unable to spend the money wisely. I've seen similar comments before and can't make out the logic. I imagine there's no real difference between Cardiff and Swansea councillors as people. The difference comes when one set are working with scraps while the other has a virtually open cheque book.
I will be replying.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 12:20 - Apr 2 with 1876 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:58 - Apr 2 by johnlangy
I posted a week or so ago about a letter of mine that was printed in the EP. In case you didn't see them there were two letters in response.
The first was from (Labour) Councillor Clive Lloyd and I just can't believe that Labour politicians are still writing the same stuff after so many years. Yet again he refers to the Museum and the National Pool. When are they going to realise that it's time to talk about now not about history. Out of curiosity, because i'd forgotten, I checked out the new pool in Cardiff. Because they couldn't call it the National pool they decided on calling it the Cardiff INTERnational Pool. I never see any mention from these politicians about the fact it cost three times the amount of our pool. That's probably because it's been superceded by about fifty other developments in Cardiff costing far more.
The second one simply says forget about Project Swansea because local councillors would be unable to spend the money wisely. I've seen similar comments before and can't make out the logic. I imagine there's no real difference between Cardiff and Swansea councillors as people. The difference comes when one set are working with scraps while the other has a virtually open cheque book.
I will be replying.
That first response is classic labour. Be grateful for the scraps you're given.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:58 - Apr 2 by johnlangy
I posted a week or so ago about a letter of mine that was printed in the EP. In case you didn't see them there were two letters in response.
The first was from (Labour) Councillor Clive Lloyd and I just can't believe that Labour politicians are still writing the same stuff after so many years. Yet again he refers to the Museum and the National Pool. When are they going to realise that it's time to talk about now not about history. Out of curiosity, because i'd forgotten, I checked out the new pool in Cardiff. Because they couldn't call it the National pool they decided on calling it the Cardiff INTERnational Pool. I never see any mention from these politicians about the fact it cost three times the amount of our pool. That's probably because it's been superceded by about fifty other developments in Cardiff costing far more.
The second one simply says forget about Project Swansea because local councillors would be unable to spend the money wisely. I've seen similar comments before and can't make out the logic. I imagine there's no real difference between Cardiff and Swansea councillors as people. The difference comes when one set are working with scraps while the other has a virtually open cheque book.
I will be replying.
What date did Clive Lloyd reply? This is what I was thinking so far
I am writing in response to the appalling letter which was sent in by Labour Councillor Clive Lloyd on the (insert date). Why should we be grateful that Welsh Labour built Swansea a museum and a swimming pool with EU funds? Why shouldn’t we be looking at the hundreds of millions that Welsh Labour has spent in regenerating Cardiff Bay and Cardiff city centre, and the vast sums spent on these developments, such as the Millenium Centre and St David’s shopping centre. Cardiff hasn’t become the incredible city it is today by the grace of God, it is because it has had 20 continuous years of government funding on an unparalleled scale. To point out the miniscule contribution that Labour has made to Swansea’s city centre regeneration is incredibly condescending and treats the people of Swansea with contempt. Labour are putting over half a billion pound into the Cardiff City Deal. Swansea’s City Deal gets nothing…as usual. Swansea gets the short straw time and again, and our planned city centre regeneration is going ahead with almost no assistance from the Welsh Government. Our tax office was closed to move more high paid jobs to Cardiff. Public money (roughly £15m) is repeatedly spent bringing events, like the Ashes, to Cardiff and nobody benefits from it, but Cardiff…yet we keep voting these people in when they do nothing to fight our corner.
It’s time for a change. Plaid has promised to introduce a bill to redistribute investment around the city. Don’t we deserve our own Cardiff Bay development? Or our own St David’s shopping centre? Or the multitude of companies which Welsh Labour always fights to attract to Cardiff? If you’re fed up with Swansea being overlooked, don’t vote for the same party which constantly ignores us. I’ve emailed these points to both Edwina Hart and Julie James (Swansea AMs)...Neither had the decency to reply.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:58 - Apr 2 by johnlangy
I posted a week or so ago about a letter of mine that was printed in the EP. In case you didn't see them there were two letters in response.
The first was from (Labour) Councillor Clive Lloyd and I just can't believe that Labour politicians are still writing the same stuff after so many years. Yet again he refers to the Museum and the National Pool. When are they going to realise that it's time to talk about now not about history. Out of curiosity, because i'd forgotten, I checked out the new pool in Cardiff. Because they couldn't call it the National pool they decided on calling it the Cardiff INTERnational Pool. I never see any mention from these politicians about the fact it cost three times the amount of our pool. That's probably because it's been superceded by about fifty other developments in Cardiff costing far more.
The second one simply says forget about Project Swansea because local councillors would be unable to spend the money wisely. I've seen similar comments before and can't make out the logic. I imagine there's no real difference between Cardiff and Swansea councillors as people. The difference comes when one set are working with scraps while the other has a virtually open cheque book.
I will be replying.
Respect to your SWEP letter writing that I find both informative and morally justified! I am a staunch ex-Labour voter whom has about much chance of joining Cardiff City Supporters Club than I have voting for Labour at the next WAG elections.
There are two types of Labour voter i.e. thinking and knowledgeable ideological type(s) and 'donkey voter' type(s) of "My granfather voted Labour, my father voter Labour, I'm labour and always will", mentality etc, etc.
It has reached the tipping point where there is now ZERO justification whatsoever for voting for a party that's personally responsible that's for the most obscene apartheid funding/favouritism bias!
Argus!
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 13:38 - Apr 2 with 1852 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 14:05 - Apr 2 by Wingstandwood
Do you happen to belong to the youth wing or 'senior wing' of The Welsh Labour Party?
I'm not a member of either wing of the Welsh Labour Party.
I follow politics closely and just continued to be amazed at my fellow Swansea brederen on this thread falling for the complete nonsense/fantasy politics that come out of Plaid Cymru.
Can you enlighten me about the differences between the senior and youth wings of the Welsh Labour Party?
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 21:30 - Apr 2 with 1784 views
There's no greater example of the Cardiff/south east wales centric labour wag projects than the so called south wales metro which is only going to be in south east wales and could end up costing £2 billion.
They justify this spending by saying half of the population of wales lives in the south east wales.
Yet therefore half the population of wales live outside south east wales so why isn't there equivalent funding for transport projects for this half of the welsh population across wales outside the south east.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:50 - Apr 3 with 1764 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 15:23 - Apr 2 by nice_to_michu
I'm not a member of either wing of the Welsh Labour Party.
I follow politics closely and just continued to be amazed at my fellow Swansea brederen on this thread falling for the complete nonsense/fantasy politics that come out of Plaid Cymru.
Can you enlighten me about the differences between the senior and youth wings of the Welsh Labour Party?
By 'follow politics closely' I assume you mean, 'I vote Labour because my father, grandfather, great grandfather etc voted Labour. Hate the Tories because they closed our mines and Labour are the working-class party for Wales!'...basically, the same drivel that keeps these cretins in power.
As mentioned above, there are only two reasons people vote for Labour, because they've stuck a red sash on a donkey and (stupid) people will vote for it,and because you agree with their policies.
Welsh New Labour are certainly not left wing anymore, and delight in the fact they spend a vastly disproportionate amount of our money in Cardiff - again, where's our city deal funding? Or our St David's? Or our Cardiff Bay? I don't suppose it bothers you because I suppose you're the type who buys their propaganda that 'if it's good for Cardiff, it's good for Wales'.
Forgive us for actually wanting to fight for Swansea to get a better deal than it's had for twenty years, during which time we've been woefully neglected and maltreated by the Welsh government. If you want Swansea to continue becoming economically barren (illustrated by the fact that the city is one of only FIVE in the UK where house prices are dropping!), then vote Labour...
By the way, regarding your quip about fantasy politics, I don't believe Plaid will deliver a new Jerusalem, but they're the only party which has promised to distribute investment throughout Wales.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:43 - Apr 3 by exiledclaseboy
So if this poll was representative, Plaid's getting about 24 or 25 seats in May.
Snigger.
Latest polls suggest that Labour will fail to get an overall majority. Here's to hoping that they fail in their quest to pump billions more of our money into the city-state.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:56 - Apr 3 by CopperJack
Latest polls suggest that Labour will fail to get an overall majority. Here's to hoping that they fail in their quest to pump billions more of our money into the city-state.
The way PR works it's very unlikely that they'll get am overall majority and quite right too.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 10:50 - Apr 3 by CopperJack
By 'follow politics closely' I assume you mean, 'I vote Labour because my father, grandfather, great grandfather etc voted Labour. Hate the Tories because they closed our mines and Labour are the working-class party for Wales!'...basically, the same drivel that keeps these cretins in power.
As mentioned above, there are only two reasons people vote for Labour, because they've stuck a red sash on a donkey and (stupid) people will vote for it,and because you agree with their policies.
Welsh New Labour are certainly not left wing anymore, and delight in the fact they spend a vastly disproportionate amount of our money in Cardiff - again, where's our city deal funding? Or our St David's? Or our Cardiff Bay? I don't suppose it bothers you because I suppose you're the type who buys their propaganda that 'if it's good for Cardiff, it's good for Wales'.
Forgive us for actually wanting to fight for Swansea to get a better deal than it's had for twenty years, during which time we've been woefully neglected and maltreated by the Welsh government. If you want Swansea to continue becoming economically barren (illustrated by the fact that the city is one of only FIVE in the UK where house prices are dropping!), then vote Labour...
By the way, regarding your quip about fantasy politics, I don't believe Plaid will deliver a new Jerusalem, but they're the only party which has promised to distribute investment throughout Wales.
Wow, you're very presumptive aren't you.
No, I support Labour because I calculate that they are the best party to deliver social and economic justice to the country (Wales and the United Kingdom).
It has nothing to do about how my family vote. In fact, many of them are Tory supporters. I wasn't even alive when the miners strike happened, wrong again.
My calculations could be wrong, of course. But, I don't think they are. The idea that what happens in May is more important than what happens in Westminster is so absurd that it is hard to believe that anyone who is interested in politics (as clearly you are), actually believes that. But, that is going over old ground, we've had that conversation.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 12:18 - Apr 3 with 1724 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 11:56 - Apr 3 by CopperJack
Latest polls suggest that Labour will fail to get an overall majority. Here's to hoping that they fail in their quest to pump billions more of our money into the city-state.
I was a staunch labour voter of thinking ideological type! And?......It's the thinking ideological types that will desert Labour. Sadly that bunch down the WAG are nothing but a bunch of 'cuckoo-in-the-nest' impostors. Nye Bevan would be turning in his grave!
The Labour WAG lot are destroying the party from within! 'Social-justice' and fairness denied for the REST of Wales with all the obscene funding bias that's so disgracefully aimed at one place? It's actually ANTI-LABOUR thinking/policy to the extreme! They're going to lose votes because of it the gullible mugs!
Yep! Gower gone blue and Wrexham (of all places) is now a marginal seat i.e. the last general election result! Like I said the party is slowly being destroyed from within!
[Post edited 3 Apr 2016 12:19]
Argus!
1
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 13:21 - Apr 3 with 1696 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 12:18 - Apr 3 by Wingstandwood
I was a staunch labour voter of thinking ideological type! And?......It's the thinking ideological types that will desert Labour. Sadly that bunch down the WAG are nothing but a bunch of 'cuckoo-in-the-nest' impostors. Nye Bevan would be turning in his grave!
The Labour WAG lot are destroying the party from within! 'Social-justice' and fairness denied for the REST of Wales with all the obscene funding bias that's so disgracefully aimed at one place? It's actually ANTI-LABOUR thinking/policy to the extreme! They're going to lose votes because of it the gullible mugs!
Yep! Gower gone blue and Wrexham (of all places) is now a marginal seat i.e. the last general election result! Like I said the party is slowly being destroyed from within!
[Post edited 3 Apr 2016 12:19]
Couldn't agree more. This mob have betrayed Labour and Wales. Hopefully the Welsh people have more sense than to vote in another 5 years of 'let's give all the investment to the affluent ' policies, which are the antithesis of what the Labour Party is meant to stand for.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 12:18 - Apr 3 by Wingstandwood
I was a staunch labour voter of thinking ideological type! And?......It's the thinking ideological types that will desert Labour. Sadly that bunch down the WAG are nothing but a bunch of 'cuckoo-in-the-nest' impostors. Nye Bevan would be turning in his grave!
The Labour WAG lot are destroying the party from within! 'Social-justice' and fairness denied for the REST of Wales with all the obscene funding bias that's so disgracefully aimed at one place? It's actually ANTI-LABOUR thinking/policy to the extreme! They're going to lose votes because of it the gullible mugs!
Yep! Gower gone blue and Wrexham (of all places) is now a marginal seat i.e. the last general election result! Like I said the party is slowly being destroyed from within!
[Post edited 3 Apr 2016 12:19]
Haha wow. You choose to make your point by highlighting two marginal seats, one in Gower and the other Wrexham. Both of these seats are Labour-Tory marginals in general elections. Plaid is nowhere to be seen. So you're argument actually helps the Tories win in both of those cases.
Sorry, I thought you said you were of the "thinking ideological type"?
[Post edited 3 Apr 2016 13:36]
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 13:43 - Apr 3 with 1670 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 13:27 - Apr 3 by nice_to_michu
Haha wow. You choose to make your point by highlighting two marginal seats, one in Gower and the other Wrexham. Both of these seats are Labour-Tory marginals in general elections. Plaid is nowhere to be seen. So you're argument actually helps the Tories win in both of those cases.
Sorry, I thought you said you were of the "thinking ideological type"?
[Post edited 3 Apr 2016 13:36]
Fair play, your undying love of Welsh Labour knows no bounds. You seem a bit worried that Plaid is creating some voting interest however. That seems more of a concern to you than the massive imbalance in investment in Wales between the SE and the rest. What are your views on that? Has there been an imbalance in your eyes? Do you think Welsh Labour have been fair handed in all of this? I would be much more interested in hearing your views in defence of Welsh Labour rather than ignoring that and harping on about how bad Plaid will be for us.
[Post edited 3 Apr 2016 13:44]
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 13:46 - Apr 3 with 1668 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 13:27 - Apr 3 by nice_to_michu
Haha wow. You choose to make your point by highlighting two marginal seats, one in Gower and the other Wrexham. Both of these seats are Labour-Tory marginals in general elections. Plaid is nowhere to be seen. So you're argument actually helps the Tories win in both of those cases.
Sorry, I thought you said you were of the "thinking ideological type"?
[Post edited 3 Apr 2016 13:36]
In past time/by-gone elections (where my viewpoint was based!) both Gower and Wrexham were rock-solid Labour seats. Martin Caton used to walk it with 6,000 - 13,000 majorities. Unlike you I was an adult during times like the miners strike and just know the true strength of Labour support from election to election.
I do not like the Tories but hey why help Labour because they're not the Tories and after all Labour do rather treat their own voters (unless from Cardiff!) like absolute dirt! Labour majorities and seats will rot away e.g. Gower lost to Tories for first time ever thanks to the WAG!
Argus!
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 14:12 - Apr 3 with 1650 views
There's some astonishing self-delusion on this thread. People actually seem to think that Plaid is the answer to all of Wales's ills and that they're on the verge of a major electoral breakthrough. No and no. They'll finish fourth probably.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 14:12 - Apr 3 by exiledclaseboy
There's some astonishing self-delusion on this thread. People actually seem to think that Plaid is the answer to all of Wales's ills and that they're on the verge of a major electoral breakthrough. No and no. They'll finish fourth probably.
I am surprised you have come to that conclusion from this thread.
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
0
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 15:23 - Apr 3 with 1622 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 14:12 - Apr 3 by exiledclaseboy
There's some astonishing self-delusion on this thread. People actually seem to think that Plaid is the answer to all of Wales's ills and that they're on the verge of a major electoral breakthrough. No and no. They'll finish fourth probably.
Perhaps Trampie's relentless campaigning is filtering through to the masses.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 15:23 - Apr 3 by exiledclaseboy
I'm surprised you're surprised.
OK I will expand a bit. Two points. Firstly I don't think anyone expects Plaid to come in on a white charger and cure all ills. The concern is more about Welsh Labour and an associated protest vote in an attempt to oust the complacent career politicians that are wrecking Wales. Secondly the political landscape is changing and I suspect plaid will do better than fourth as our very unscientific and small poll suggests. I doubt they will come first mind :-)
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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