| Can we have another Centre Back please? 23:50 - Jul 5 with 19891 views | Dorse |
Starting to get a bit worried now, Chris. A big, nasty bar-steward who would tackle a concrete effigy of King Kong if it looked on-side in the box. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:27 - Jul 6 with 2830 views | ganjR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:01 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
So that retroactively means they've been watching him all this time? It actually means the opposite, there was no pathway for the vast majority of these players time here and they were basically disregarded.
I think it's time to accept just how little truth is in the clubs statements anyway. |
Look, the club are trying to do things the right way. You seem to have set your stall out a certain way and that's your choice. I don't quite know what you're getting at with that post really, but either we give the likes of Harriman a chance or we go and buy loads of players again.
I think the club are trying to do it the right way. |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:45 - Jul 6 with 2784 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:27 - Jul 6 by ganjR |
Look, the club are trying to do things the right way. You seem to have set your stall out a certain way and that's your choice. I don't quite know what you're getting at with that post really, but either we give the likes of Harriman a chance or we go and buy loads of players again.
I think the club are trying to do it the right way. |
I think we've got our wires crossed you don't seem to be addressing anything I've actually said.
Not sure why I'm the one 'setting my stall out' seeing as how you're just asserting things and I've given an actual argument. |  |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:46 - Jul 6 with 2774 views | MerthyrHoop |
With Ehmer now gone, I now make us just one centre-back short. Onuoha & Caulker are a good Championship partnership, but I think we need an alternative to just Clint Hill if one gets injured or Onuoha is needed to step in for one of our inexperienced right backs. Liam Moore or Jamal Lascelles on loan would be good, don't know too much about any in the lower leagues if we're following our recent transfer policy.
Beyond that I'd say we have a good competitive Championship squad where we can put out two solid teams:
Green
Furlong - Onuoha - Caulker (c) - Yun
Henry - Luongo
Phillips - Fer - Gladwin
Austin
McCarthy
Harriman - ????? - Hill - Traore
Doughty - Faurlin
Mackie - JET - Hoilett
Polter
No idea if we'll ever see Sandro or Diakite again, but chuck in Lumley, Sutherland, Manning, Petrasso and Grego-Cox and that makes up an ever bigger squad.
Once that centre-half is in place, arguably all we need to do is sign replacements for those who move on to bigger and better things (and all for a bit of tidy profit):
Green/McCarty OUT Bentley IN
Phillips OUT Adomah IN
Fer OUT Morrison IN
Austin OUT Gray IN | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:47 - Jul 6 with 2763 views | QPunkR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:45 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
I think we've got our wires crossed you don't seem to be addressing anything I've actually said.
Not sure why I'm the one 'setting my stall out' seeing as how you're just asserting things and I've given an actual argument. |
Because everyone else has addressed everything you've said and you don't seem to take on board any response. |  |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:50 - Jul 6 with 2759 views | ganjR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:45 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
I think we've got our wires crossed you don't seem to be addressing anything I've actually said.
Not sure why I'm the one 'setting my stall out' seeing as how you're just asserting things and I've given an actual argument. |
Fair enough. Do you want Harriman to be given a chance or shall we buy another RB and go against our ethos and go sign a first choice RB?
We are aiming for mid - table and I think it's good that we are starting to have a strategy and limits to our signings. | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:54 - Jul 6 with 2727 views | Dando |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 10:07 - Jul 6 by QPunkR |
Not exactly inexperienced though. Harriman's made over 100 league appearances already, though admittedly at a lower level. Nevertheless, he was never overshadowed in the couple of goes he's had in the top flight, and indeed was our only good performer at Anfield.
We need to get out of the habit of wanting new players all the time. LB and RB are well covered imo. |
not sure I agree completely with this. Harriman clearly looks a decent player, but not sure Id trust him going straight in as a starter at right back. Furlong had a decent game at Hull, but clearly showed he is not ready in the other games and would benefit from going on loan somewhere imo. OK he came up against top players, but would do him good to have a season in a lower division. Maybe Harriman can step up, but Id be looking into getting some cover, if not a new right back ahead of him [Post edited 6 Jul 2015 12:02]
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:59 - Jul 6 with 2690 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:47 - Jul 6 by QPunkR |
Because everyone else has addressed everything you've said and you don't seem to take on board any response. |
Please show me where the proceeding comment has been addressed.
'On the right we have unknown quantities that have less than half a dozen appearances between them. Every club has a number of young players, in every position but that's not a reason not to sign anyone.
On the left we have Yun, Traore does not and can not play left back and hasn't outside of brief sub appearances for years.
Hill and Onohua are both the 2nd and 3rd choice centrebacks and are completely incapable of playing the positions to an acceptable level. '
Now show me one single solitary argument that I have ignored.
Interesting results eh? | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:00 - Jul 6 with 2679 views | QPunkR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:59 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
Please show me where the proceeding comment has been addressed.
'On the right we have unknown quantities that have less than half a dozen appearances between them. Every club has a number of young players, in every position but that's not a reason not to sign anyone.
On the left we have Yun, Traore does not and can not play left back and hasn't outside of brief sub appearances for years.
Hill and Onohua are both the 2nd and 3rd choice centrebacks and are completely incapable of playing the positions to an acceptable level. '
Now show me one single solitary argument that I have ignored.
Interesting results eh? |
Sorry, you're totally right. Oh, apart from where I've pointed out that Harriman's got over 100 professional league appearances to his name. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:03 - Jul 6 with 2670 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 11:50 - Jul 6 by ganjR |
Fair enough. Do you want Harriman to be given a chance or shall we buy another RB and go against our ethos and go sign a first choice RB?
We are aiming for mid - table and I think it's good that we are starting to have a strategy and limits to our signings. |
I don't want all of our eggs in the two youth players basket. Entering the season relying on purely youth players in one position is dangerous.
Signing a player is going against our ethos? | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:07 - Jul 6 with 2650 views | ganjR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:03 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
I don't want all of our eggs in the two youth players basket. Entering the season relying on purely youth players in one position is dangerous.
Signing a player is going against our ethos? |
Harriman is not a youth player though is he? | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:07 - Jul 6 with 2650 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:00 - Jul 6 by QPunkR |
Sorry, you're totally right. Oh, apart from where I've pointed out that Harriman's got over 100 professional league appearances to his name. |
My word indeed.
So his 100 lower league appearances addresses:
On the right we have unknown quantities that have less than half a dozen appearances (obviously at our level) between them. How exactly?
Every club has a number of young players, in every position but that's not a reason not to sign anyone. How exactly?
On the left we have Yun, Traore does not and can not play left back and hasn't outside of brief sub appearances for years. How exactly?
Hill and Onohua are both the 2nd and 3rd choice centrebacks and are completely incapable of playing the positions to an acceptable level. ' How exactly?
And that shows that I've ignored an argument? How exactly? | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:09 - Jul 6 with 2638 views | QPunkR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:07 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
My word indeed.
So his 100 lower league appearances addresses:
On the right we have unknown quantities that have less than half a dozen appearances (obviously at our level) between them. How exactly?
Every club has a number of young players, in every position but that's not a reason not to sign anyone. How exactly?
On the left we have Yun, Traore does not and can not play left back and hasn't outside of brief sub appearances for years. How exactly?
Hill and Onohua are both the 2nd and 3rd choice centrebacks and are completely incapable of playing the positions to an acceptable level. ' How exactly?
And that shows that I've ignored an argument? How exactly? |
Because you've just done it. Again.
That little bit where you say about unknown qualities. I've even stated earlier about us getting reports back from the clubs he's on loan at. Please feel free to totally ignore this message also. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:13 - Jul 6 with 2626 views | YorkRanger |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 10:20 - Jul 6 by QPunkR |
We've got Harriman and Furlong right. We've got Yun and Traore left.
Onuoha and Hill can also cover them respectably. Not sure how many players we want for each position on the pitch. |
Broadly agree with this. I think someone like Connolly, who can paly anywhere across the back four, would be a useful addition.
We are now a Championship Club/ I think Ramsey will view CB pairing as Onouha and Caulker, with Hill as back up, perhaps Donaldson too and clearly Connolly if he came would be another. I can still see Dunne coming back for a season. Much hinges on whether Caulker stays or goes |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:22 - Jul 6 with 2593 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:09 - Jul 6 by QPunkR |
Because you've just done it. Again.
That little bit where you say about unknown qualities. I've even stated earlier about us getting reports back from the clubs he's on loan at. Please feel free to totally ignore this message also. |
Wait you're trying to say he's not an unknown quantity based on lower league experience? So we know what we're getting here? Believe that if you will but if you believe that constitutes 'ignoring everything anyone says' then you're delusional.
I even directly addressed this very point by clarifying that it was because it was due to the level those appearances were and I directly addressed your post about the reports in the very next comment.
Laughable and not worth my time. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:31 - Jul 6 with 2565 views | QPunkR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:22 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
Wait you're trying to say he's not an unknown quantity based on lower league experience? So we know what we're getting here? Believe that if you will but if you believe that constitutes 'ignoring everything anyone says' then you're delusional.
I even directly addressed this very point by clarifying that it was because it was due to the level those appearances were and I directly addressed your post about the reports in the very next comment.
Laughable and not worth my time. |
Sorry, of course we should go and spunk untold meelions on 'proven' players. Because that's worked ever so well for us these past few seasons | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:45 - Jul 6 with 2382 views | QPR_Jim |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:22 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
Wait you're trying to say he's not an unknown quantity based on lower league experience? So we know what we're getting here? Believe that if you will but if you believe that constitutes 'ignoring everything anyone says' then you're delusional.
I even directly addressed this very point by clarifying that it was because it was due to the level those appearances were and I directly addressed your post about the reports in the very next comment.
Laughable and not worth my time. |
QPunkR has clearly addressed your original comments. We, as a club, are clearly focusing on youth and trying to reduce squad size by having a younger more energetic squad. The problem with youth is that it doesn't mean experience, you seldom have both. At some point somebody has to give them a chance to take the step up, Harriman has earned it and would probably have not re-signed for the club if we intended to put him on the bench.
If we could have kept Ehmer I don't think we would have needed to add anything to the defence, but this strategy of buying established players to keep youth products out of the squad made it hard to keep hold of these players. |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:02 - Jul 6 with 2320 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 10:16 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
It's not that he's a kid, he's just quite the unknown. I'm more inclined to think Furlong will come through anyway but it's a big responsibility thrust upon them.
One extreme to the other if we do that. |
Sorry Peter, but this is how it should be done. You can't continually go out buying someone who's allegedly 'proven' or a 'known quantity'. It's a recipe for disaster. Both are decent enough to do an ok job - and we need to be a bit patient and live with it. As long as they don't single-handedly send us down (which seems difficult), then that's all we need next season. |  |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:13 - Jul 6 with 2285 views | simmo |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 12:03 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
I don't want all of our eggs in the two youth players basket. Entering the season relying on purely youth players in one position is dangerous.
Signing a player is going against our ethos? |
Why is this any different from signing the current 1st choice RB at Luton, who previously had over 30 apprearances at Gillinghan and over 20 at Wycombe? Why doesn't that experience count like it does with Gladwin, Luongo and the other young players we have bought from lower leagues? (edit: after looking it up, Harriman actually has more league appearances than both of these guys).
I appreciate your point that's its a bit of a gamble, but it's more of a measured risk considering 1) Harriman has plenty of competitive experience for his age 2) We know all about him as he's a product of our own academy and 3) He has perfromed well when playing for the above teams.
Our approach is changing to get back to where we were post spunking money on former champions league winners and I can;t complain about that, even if it does mean we are taking a few risks with younger/less proven players in certain positions.
Also, in my humble opinion, I think Harriman is easily good enough for the Championship [Post edited 6 Jul 2015 13:19]
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| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:27 - Jul 6 with 2239 views | PhilmyRs |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:02 - Jul 6 by Antti_Heinola |
Sorry Peter, but this is how it should be done. You can't continually go out buying someone who's allegedly 'proven' or a 'known quantity'. It's a recipe for disaster. Both are decent enough to do an ok job - and we need to be a bit patient and live with it. As long as they don't single-handedly send us down (which seems difficult), then that's all we need next season. |
I don’t think scouting and signing a young, promising up and coming right back or even an established one (similar to Simpson) is taking us back to the dark old days. We’ve always been better at spotting talent rather than developing from within. Sinton, Sinclair, Cook, the Bard, Carlisle, Crouch were all products of other clubs academies, not ours. Should there be a player out there that suits our new philosophy — e.g. good age and hungry to develop and improve — we shouldn’t be against signing them just because we’ve got a guy that plays in the same position and has come through our youth system.
Ultimately what it comes down to is whether the club deem Harriman good enough to establish himself in the squad. He’s gained the lower league experience and played a lot of football. You’d hope we’ve gained a sound understanding of what sort of player he is. If the view is that his level is League 1 and will never be higher, we shouldn’t stick him in this season because he’s ‘one of ours’.
Getting a good deal on a player via decent scouting is still in line with our new philosophy and just as importantly the way we used to operate as a football club. Austin, we gave him a chance and he’s going to make us money, the same can be said of Phillips. Two years ago we didn’t say hey Tom Hitchcock you’re a youngster knocking about our youth team, want to start the season? No, we spotted a good, hungry player at Burnley and paid money for him and we’re now about to get that money back and some.
Buying players is not the problem, it’s signing players on big money that see us as a step down which is. | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:35 - Jul 6 with 2221 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:02 - Jul 6 by Antti_Heinola |
Sorry Peter, but this is how it should be done. You can't continually go out buying someone who's allegedly 'proven' or a 'known quantity'. It's a recipe for disaster. Both are decent enough to do an ok job - and we need to be a bit patient and live with it. As long as they don't single-handedly send us down (which seems difficult), then that's all we need next season. |
F*** me I've been one of the few actively arguing to use our youth for years. Why does it have to be an all or nothing scenario? We go from refusing to give people a handful of appearances during an injury crisis to completely relying on youth players.
This is absolutely not the way things should be done. I can not think of one example of a club beginning a season with only untested youth team graduates at a position. I can not think of a single example where that kind of responsibility has been placed on kids.
So as long as we don't go down we can throw these two in at the deep end with no one to provide advice, take over during times of bad form etc and sod their confidence? Because no young player is ever ruined by doing exactly what you're saying?
Doesn't sound like a much better plan than say starting Harriman signing another right back and sending furlong to Wycombe on loan. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:03 - Jul 6 with 2143 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:35 - Jul 6 by Mvpeter |
F*** me I've been one of the few actively arguing to use our youth for years. Why does it have to be an all or nothing scenario? We go from refusing to give people a handful of appearances during an injury crisis to completely relying on youth players.
This is absolutely not the way things should be done. I can not think of one example of a club beginning a season with only untested youth team graduates at a position. I can not think of a single example where that kind of responsibility has been placed on kids.
So as long as we don't go down we can throw these two in at the deep end with no one to provide advice, take over during times of bad form etc and sod their confidence? Because no young player is ever ruined by doing exactly what you're saying?
Doesn't sound like a much better plan than say starting Harriman signing another right back and sending furlong to Wycombe on loan. |
Bollocks. Sorry.
As has been pointed out, Harriman has played loads of games in league one and two. Hardly untried. If we had signed someone his age from a league one club you wouldn't be saying a word! What an absolute load of garbage.
I love it when people talk about 'ruining' kids. Listen, if they're going to make it, they'll make it, simple as that. If they're going to go to pieces because of a few tough games early in their career, they were never going to make it anyway. We also have Ned who can move across to RB if it really, really goes tits up. Not really much of an issue.
Really, it's not that different to when we started the season with Gallen and Dichio up front - OK, they had some experience the season before and yes we went down - but actually the pair of them did pretty bloody well and certainly weren't to blame for our relegation.
You need to chill. Harriman and Furlong are fine options at right back. If you don't try them now, then when do you? We spend more money now on an RB and we'll just limit their chances even further. If we were in the Prem, for what it's worth, I'd agree totally. But we're not. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:28 - Jul 6 with 2112 views | PhilmyRs |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:03 - Jul 6 by Antti_Heinola |
Bollocks. Sorry.
As has been pointed out, Harriman has played loads of games in league one and two. Hardly untried. If we had signed someone his age from a league one club you wouldn't be saying a word! What an absolute load of garbage.
I love it when people talk about 'ruining' kids. Listen, if they're going to make it, they'll make it, simple as that. If they're going to go to pieces because of a few tough games early in their career, they were never going to make it anyway. We also have Ned who can move across to RB if it really, really goes tits up. Not really much of an issue.
Really, it's not that different to when we started the season with Gallen and Dichio up front - OK, they had some experience the season before and yes we went down - but actually the pair of them did pretty bloody well and certainly weren't to blame for our relegation.
You need to chill. Harriman and Furlong are fine options at right back. If you don't try them now, then when do you? We spend more money now on an RB and we'll just limit their chances even further. If we were in the Prem, for what it's worth, I'd agree totally. But we're not. |
I don't know, had Gallen tucked away a couple of gilt edged chances against Coventry at home...
I listen to all these debates but surely it comes down to whether the people at QPR — coaching team, Manager and Director of Football — think Harriman is good enough? Yes he’s got a year’s extension but I don’t read too much into that. We love to give out a contract to stop the player walking away but doesn’t necessarily mean they’re rated.
Harriman has played enough games now for the coaches to form an opinion of him as a player. I confess I’ve not kept tabs on all his performances but people within the club should have done. Surely if the overriding view is that he won’t ever be a Championship quality player we shouldn’t put him in this season just because he’s come via our youth team? | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:33 - Jul 6 with 2103 views | Northernr |
Harriman looked very decent on the rare occasions I saw him play for Wycombe and Luton. If we were signing him now on a free transfer from Luton we'd all be very positive about how we've scouted a young defender with lots of potential from the lower leagues. |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:39 - Jul 6 with 2081 views | WilloW4 |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 10:21 - Jul 6 by BlackandGoldR |
Personally I think Caulker will go late in the window to a West Brom/Aston Villa type (If Vlaar goes) but I think we want to keep him and build an Onuoha-Caulker partnership. Think they will do a job in the championship. Hill is 3rd choice (at the moment) and younger lads are 4th so losing Ehmer could be a loss.
Right Back is Furlongs/Harrimans and LB is Yuns, Robinson wont be back for a while. So a loan LB from the prem and a new CB is what we need next. |
"Onuoha-caulker partnership, think they'll do a job in the championship"..? What ? Why?.. Don't understand how some think that these two can cut it in the championship even...each to their own and fair enough, but in my humble they're both average at best, awful at worst... Mistakes a plenty with those two as centre backs...just a thought. |  | | |
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