| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! 15:27 - Nov 3 with 20256 views | NOTRAC |
Although the 2014 accounts have not been published and submitted to Companies House in respect of Swansea City AFC ,the Trust has just published their 2014 accounts on their new website.
From these one thing stands out.The Trust has received a further dividend for the 2014 year of £210,000 which means that a total dividend of £1m has been declared and paid to all the shareholders.
This means that for each £100,000 originally invested by each shareholder they have now received a Return of £300,000, that is, three times their original investments.
If it is true that they are also looking to sell their shares to the American investors there is only one thing that can be said about them
They are greedy bastards who are no different to Mr Petty, the man they once decried.
Surely they should now do a Mel Nurse, and gift their shares back to the club, and prove that they are men of integrity and not the crap that they appear to be turning into. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:37 - Nov 3 with 1333 views | Parlay |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:20 - Nov 3 by perchrockjack |
I've a few questions.
Are we saying now the board is greedy and in some way only out to screw the club.
Are we also saying that any extra money coming into the club is not wanted..
Are we saying then we need to change the aforementioned greedy board or directors because although being in the top six of premier league we seem really worried about this, which tends to suggest ,if true, the board cannot be trusted to do the right thing.
Seeing what they ve done for the club, and I might be the naive one, i m quite happy for them to run my club and frankly what they earn from it doesn't bother me, I can recall times when nobody invested in our club ..ever... |
Investment almost always isn't a good thing though Perch, quite why football fans think it is amazes me after example upon example of the opposite. Ive been on many a football forum where "attracting investors" actually seems like a desirable goal and an achievement. Its a stunning stance, which in my opinion is born out of naivety.
If i was a man that could afford a nice merc, a nice house and lovely holidays and still have a bit to tuck away each month... Then a bank came along and gave me a credit card in my name and spent it on my behalf affording me a Ferrari, a mansion and months away at a time, it would certainly be nice for the time the credit card was funded. Then they ask for it back, AND interest. (Remember, nobody invests in a club like ours to not make a profit).
I then have to sell my car, my house, give up my holiday and use my saved up money to pay it all back. Im left with no house, no car, no savings and my future is completely uncertain.
These investments are not investments at all, they are loans. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:38 - Nov 3 with 1324 views | Uxbridge |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 22:52 - Nov 3 by Dyfnant |
Whats the point of a Trust vote unless your aware of any actual investment details, which I assume the trust director would be unable to officially share. |
Sufficient information would need to be shared in order for the members to make an informed decision. Excellent question though... what that would constitute is an interesting topic. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:40 - Nov 3 with 1315 views | Phil_S |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 19:35 - Nov 3 by tomdickharry |
Your not alone.
We have read a great deal recently about the shareholding of the Trust,consequently let us consider the position of the Trust board if and when an investment offer is placed before them.Who instructs them whether to accept or defray the offer,the fans circa 18000 or the voting members of the Trust circa 122.Guidance please. |
Did you actually read the Trust statement - we had this discussion yesterday? |  | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:40 - Nov 3 with 1311 views | Dyfnant |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:11 - Nov 3 by tomdickharry |
Simply because the Trust board will not have a mandate from Trust members,just as I assume the Trust did not have a Mandate to state they were against investment.Again I assume all Trust members will have a copy of any investment offer and vote democratically at a Trust meeting,"power to the people" often just ends up as"power to a few people". |
If the voters have the necessary info then fair enough, otherwise I suppose we have to blindly back the Trust chairmans opinion.
I think some details of what this investment is expected to do for the club should be forthcoming, certainly can't see it affecting any NDA |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:42 - Nov 3 with 1308 views | Phil_S |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:38 - Nov 3 by Uxbridge |
Sufficient information would need to be shared in order for the members to make an informed decision. Excellent question though... what that would constitute is an interesting topic. |
Pretty much as Uxbridge said - we would need to give the members sufficient information with which they could make a decision which would have to include details of the offer and also the pros and cons of acceptance/denial
And contrary to what certain people will tell you it will be a massively informed piece of information with the correct experts involved | | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:42 - Nov 3 with 1300 views | perchrockjack |
Thanks for that parlay. Good points.
Note I'm not thst daft ,really, to accept all what someone tells me, if fact I believe little.
Therefore, I too would be sceptical about anyone from outside looking to put n investment and take a chunk out of my club.
People have a right to be concerned, strudel in the late 70s promised us a new stadium and the whole world but we got trashed as a result.
Different gravy now but yeah we should be circumspect..
However ,to dismiss it out of hand ,as it seems on here, is wrong.
It's also a case of do we trust the people in charge of our club now. Some don't.
Anyway, peaceful night and hope we both see the new day | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:43 - Nov 3 with 1305 views | jackonicko |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:32 - Nov 3 by perchrockjack |
Yep, or anyone else who can help.
Where do we go from here.
Reading this thread doula confuse an outsider into thinking here was a club falling out of the sky.
This is a time to be happy, proud and confident yet reading some of the comments on here is staggering.
Posters asking other posters to prove themselves to the rest "us".
Madness |
We can be happy, proud and confident of the football team right now.
People are just rightly asking questions of what might happen should the ownership model that has got us to our happy, proud and confident place on the field, suddenly be replaced.
Right now, we have no details of any 'investment'. As and when we get those details, we should ask even more questions.
It's what separates us from the rest of the Premier League. We don't just roll over when a billionaire comes calling. We should be happy, proud and confident about that, too. |  | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:45 - Nov 3 with 1290 views | perchrockjack |
And that s fair enough jackonico. Agree with that.
Warm feeling back now | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:45 - Nov 3 with 1294 views | Phil_S |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:11 - Nov 3 by tomdickharry |
Simply because the Trust board will not have a mandate from Trust members,just as I assume the Trust did not have a Mandate to state they were against investment.Again I assume all Trust members will have a copy of any investment offer and vote democratically at a Trust meeting,"power to the people" often just ends up as"power to a few people". |
As we stated yesterday and you were unable to provide then please tell me where the Trust said they were against investment. I won't wait around for long
Interestingly - and you may not like this - but the Trust do not have to take a decision like this to its members that is what a Trust board is elected for
But it is also something we fundamentally disagree with hence the last line in the statement you didn't read properly | | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:47 - Nov 3 with 1288 views | Phil_S |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:40 - Nov 3 by Dyfnant |
If the voters have the necessary info then fair enough, otherwise I suppose we have to blindly back the Trust chairmans opinion.
I think some details of what this investment is expected to do for the club should be forthcoming, certainly can't see it affecting any NDA |
You can take it from me that you won't need to ever 'blindly back my opinion' on situations like this
However, as it stands at the moment we cannot give you any information as to what investment is expected to do because there is no offer on the table | | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:56 - Nov 3 with 1261 views | AngelRangelQS |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:47 - Nov 3 by Phil_S |
You can take it from me that you won't need to ever 'blindly back my opinion' on situations like this
However, as it stands at the moment we cannot give you any information as to what investment is expected to do because there is no offer on the table |
How will any vote work Phil?
Would there be any get-together beforehand for discussions? Maybe a Q&A with any potential investors?
Are we saying that we could be in a position whereby an investor says "I'll only buy shares in this company if I can have them all" and the vote simply comes down to a "yes" or "no" to investment?
Again, I'm assuming that if an investor is happy to keep the trust around, it wouldn't even be an issue? |  | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 00:46 - Nov 4 with 1227 views | _ |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:37 - Nov 3 by Parlay |
Investment almost always isn't a good thing though Perch, quite why football fans think it is amazes me after example upon example of the opposite. Ive been on many a football forum where "attracting investors" actually seems like a desirable goal and an achievement. Its a stunning stance, which in my opinion is born out of naivety.
If i was a man that could afford a nice merc, a nice house and lovely holidays and still have a bit to tuck away each month... Then a bank came along and gave me a credit card in my name and spent it on my behalf affording me a Ferrari, a mansion and months away at a time, it would certainly be nice for the time the credit card was funded. Then they ask for it back, AND interest. (Remember, nobody invests in a club like ours to not make a profit).
I then have to sell my car, my house, give up my holiday and use my saved up money to pay it all back. Im left with no house, no car, no savings and my future is completely uncertain.
These investments are not investments at all, they are loans. |
Fair play to you old friend for having that much patience with him. That's a lesson for me there.
I think youve finally made the penny drop though, well done. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 00:59 - Nov 4 with 1215 views | Dyfnant |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:56 - Nov 3 by AngelRangelQS |
How will any vote work Phil?
Would there be any get-together beforehand for discussions? Maybe a Q&A with any potential investors?
Are we saying that we could be in a position whereby an investor says "I'll only buy shares in this company if I can have them all" and the vote simply comes down to a "yes" or "no" to investment?
Again, I'm assuming that if an investor is happy to keep the trust around, it wouldn't even be an issue? |
Can't see much use in the trust personally if someone else has a controlling interest. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 01:13 - Nov 4 with 1193 views | Davillin |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 00:59 - Nov 4 by Dyfnant |
Can't see much use in the trust personally if someone else has a controlling interest. |
Please think about your statement for a moment.
1. In reality, the Trust does not have a controlling interest now, yet they're doing precisely what the Trust was constituted to do.
2. And not by a long shot are they finished battling for the supporters! And that's whether or not the present possible sea change takes place. |  |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 01:19 - Nov 4 with 1190 views | Davillin |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 22:11 - Nov 3 by jackonicko |
The trust is one member, one vote. You don't get extra credit for being there longer. You don't get extra credit for having put more money in than others. That's the way it should be.
If the trust is filled with members who vote to sell the trust shareholding, that's the mandate of the fans. If you don't want that to happen, then make sure your voice is heard.
That's democracy. |
Jackonicko, you might be interested to know that in the earliest days of planning a supporters trust, the very points you make in your first sentence were very strenuously debated in private and semi-private discussions.
Thanks for sounding the clarion call about supporting the supporters trust! | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 01:34 - Nov 4 with 1178 views | Davillin |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 22:52 - Nov 3 by Dyfnant |
Whats the point of a Trust vote unless your aware of any actual investment details, which I assume the trust director would be unable to officially share. |
First, the Trust director on the SCFC Board has a legal and ethical obligation to the Trust Board to discuss with them everything that happens at the SCFC Board that pertains to the club. In point of fact, the Trust Board is the only entity to whom the Trust director is obligated.
Second, I have not the slightest doubt that when the Trust has information that is solid and valid, and when decisions are needed, the Trust will inform the members, and even non-members will learn.
Mr Sumbler has repeatedly stated that there's nothing yet to go on. I'm sure that it is as he suggests -- my guess is perhaps informal chatter, maybe a "testing of the water" by carefully-crafted leaks, but no firm offer, no SCFC Board action, and most pointedly, no plans at the Trust on how to deal with no offers.
Even if someone is starting to draft the many and complex legal documents required, they would still have to be presented to the SCFC Board for discussion and either approval or rejection or more negotiations. Even that level of activity may not be solid enough yet for the Trust to need to take any formal action, in my opinion, although it would start a buzz of informal activity by the Trust Board.
It's hard to be patient when so much is at risk, but cooler heads will prevail.
"Trust the Trust." [Post edited 4 Nov 2014 1:42]
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 02:10 - Nov 4 with 1162 views | Dyfnant |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 01:34 - Nov 4 by Davillin |
First, the Trust director on the SCFC Board has a legal and ethical obligation to the Trust Board to discuss with them everything that happens at the SCFC Board that pertains to the club. In point of fact, the Trust Board is the only entity to whom the Trust director is obligated.
Second, I have not the slightest doubt that when the Trust has information that is solid and valid, and when decisions are needed, the Trust will inform the members, and even non-members will learn.
Mr Sumbler has repeatedly stated that there's nothing yet to go on. I'm sure that it is as he suggests -- my guess is perhaps informal chatter, maybe a "testing of the water" by carefully-crafted leaks, but no firm offer, no SCFC Board action, and most pointedly, no plans at the Trust on how to deal with no offers.
Even if someone is starting to draft the many and complex legal documents required, they would still have to be presented to the SCFC Board for discussion and either approval or rejection or more negotiations. Even that level of activity may not be solid enough yet for the Trust to need to take any formal action, in my opinion, although it would start a buzz of informal activity by the Trust Board.
It's hard to be patient when so much is at risk, but cooler heads will prevail.
"Trust the Trust." [Post edited 4 Nov 2014 1:42]
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'Trust the trust' was kind of my point | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 02:16 - Nov 4 with 1156 views | Dyfnant |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 01:13 - Nov 4 by Davillin |
Please think about your statement for a moment.
1. In reality, the Trust does not have a controlling interest now, yet they're doing precisely what the Trust was constituted to do.
2. And not by a long shot are they finished battling for the supporters! And that's whether or not the present possible sea change takes place. |
No one has a controlling stake at the moment, this alone is what makes the trusts stake valuable to us. My kids can tell me what they'd like for dinner but I'll tell them what I'm buying. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 02:29 - Nov 4 with 1143 views | Parlay |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 00:46 - Nov 4 by _ |
Fair play to you old friend for having that much patience with him. That's a lesson for me there.
I think youve finally made the penny drop though, well done. |
Ive drilled it into the Cardiff lot for long enough. They still think their club has billions because tan is a billionaire. Mind blowing. | |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 07:07 - Nov 4 with 1074 views | AngelRangelQS |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 01:13 - Nov 4 by Davillin |
Please think about your statement for a moment.
1. In reality, the Trust does not have a controlling interest now, yet they're doing precisely what the Trust was constituted to do.
2. And not by a long shot are they finished battling for the supporters! And that's whether or not the present possible sea change takes place. |
Agreed.
At the end of the day it'll always be better to have the trust on the inside than the outside.
At the very least we'd have the fans views represented at all times. Yes, maybe it would be pointless if the owners were megalomaniac nutters but if they were okay then it would just be business as usual no? | | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 07:24 - Nov 4 with 1040 views | Phil_S |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:56 - Nov 3 by AngelRangelQS |
How will any vote work Phil?
Would there be any get-together beforehand for discussions? Maybe a Q&A with any potential investors?
Are we saying that we could be in a position whereby an investor says "I'll only buy shares in this company if I can have them all" and the vote simply comes down to a "yes" or "no" to investment?
Again, I'm assuming that if an investor is happy to keep the trust around, it wouldn't even be an issue? |
All the consultation will have to be done with a level of knowledge. We cannot take anyone's view without at least giving them some detail as to what is happening, what the options are and possibly even what our recommendation is from the experts we have been consulting with
"Again, I'm assuming that if an investor is happy to keep the trust around, it wouldn't even be an issue? "
An interesting question. Now if they said they wanted to work with us then I guess there wouldn't be an issue but there may still be a question of do we work with them with less shares and the cash in the bank from the sale of those. Not saying that is the plan or the strategy but we need to make everyone aware of all the options during a consultation
As I said technically (and legally) we do not need to take this to a consultation process, it is clear that the Trust board is set up to make these decisions on the behalf of the membership. However, I would not be comfortable that the decision was taken without the consultation and I don't think there are many on the Trust board who would be
Without banging jackonicko's drum for him, the time to join the Trust is now | | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 07:57 - Nov 4 with 1009 views | Clinton |
Reading through the thread, as an evil US millionaire, I've formulated an evil genius plan
1) pay for Trust membership lots of tame 'ringers'
2) have myself and pals voted onto the trust board at the next election. It's democracy you see.
3) take all the Trusts money
4) use the trust shareholding to lanch a bid on the vast moneymaking machine known as SCFC
Heh, heh, heh, heh ,heh power at last [Post edited 4 Nov 2014 7:59]
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| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 08:06 - Nov 4 with 993 views | monmouth |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 23:45 - Nov 3 by Phil_S |
As we stated yesterday and you were unable to provide then please tell me where the Trust said they were against investment. I won't wait around for long
Interestingly - and you may not like this - but the Trust do not have to take a decision like this to its members that is what a Trust board is elected for
But it is also something we fundamentally disagree with hence the last line in the statement you didn't read properly |
Well I for one would prefer the Trust board to take the decision. At least then I know it is being taken exclusively by long term Swansea City fans with the clubs best interest at heart.
edit - even if I were to personally disagree, the above still holds true [Post edited 4 Nov 2014 8:07]
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| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 08:14 - Nov 4 with 979 views | 1jack |
I have no trouble with the directors being paid, they have done a great job and they deserve it.
Now, we all gave money to save the club, some gave what they could afford, some gave more. The common denominator was to save the club, none of us expected, or wanted, to get anything back.
I do not want shares to be sold and we must not let it happen, I urge everyone to become a member of the trust to make the trust's voice louder. |  | | |
| A million quid for the shareholders It's official! on 08:48 - Nov 4 with 944 views | icecoldjack |
Im no expert on any of this thats for sure.
What i will say is that reading this thread makes me proud as fook in being a jack and knowing there are some smart cookies out there asking searching questions is one the reasons the club has achieved what it has.
As said above, it sets us apart from other clubs .
Anyone wanting to speculate on scfc is looking to accumalate thats the bottom line for me, the details can sometimes fog the true intemt.
The more searchimg the questions the better it is for our club.
Just what questions need to be asked,well, im not really clever enough to ask them myself which is why imfimd this thread superb .
Its a wake up call to everyome though and for me its good to know some of our support hasnt forgotton the lomg hard road that built our success. |  | | |
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