| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm 18:10 - Aug 11 with 28860 views | Hubert |
Just seen it on twitter, Mail journo |  | | |  |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 14:33 - Aug 12 with 1868 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 13:32 - Aug 12 by jakarmi |
I cant beleive some of the posters on here saying "we should just pay up" etc. Yes of course we should just pay up to any club that says we owe them money, whether we do or not.
My take is Utrecht are trying it on - they have nothing to lose so why not chnace it. |
"They" are trying it on?
Really? |  |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 14:55 - Aug 12 with 1826 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 14:33 - Aug 12 by _ |
"They" are trying it on?
Really? |
There are really not many alternatives here. Either the Swans have pulled a swifty or they haven't. If they haven't then Utrecht's complaint is without merit and they're chancing their arm. |  |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 14:59 - Aug 12 with 1820 views | Shaky |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 10:12 - Aug 12 by reddythered |
I'm well aware of what market vaue is.
I'm well aware and have stated it's ridiculous to use a nominal market value.
What I stated would be the approach used to *determine* an "appropriate" market value. After all, how could any organisaton expect a massive bid from teams, huh?
Which feeds back into the original post about Vorm; Utrecht feel they have a market value for him want cash.... |
OK, I'm with you now.
Clearly the confusion has arisen due to you use of the term 'market price' when what you in fact meant was 'Reddy's Proprietary Market Price'**
** adjusted for market prices Reddy doesn't like.
Sorry to say I am not entirely convinced your innovative definition will catch on, but good luck with it anyway.  |  |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:20 - Aug 12 with 1790 views | JackSomething |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 14:55 - Aug 12 by Uxbridge |
There are really not many alternatives here. Either the Swans have pulled a swifty or they haven't. If they haven't then Utrecht's complaint is without merit and they're chancing their arm. |
Exactly.
What's depressing (but not surprising given our current fanbase) is how many have already decided we've pulled a fast one and how damaging that is to us.
Waiting for the facts from FIFA is obviously not an option for some people. [Post edited 12 Aug 2014 15:20]
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| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:30 - Aug 12 with 1764 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:20 - Aug 12 by JackSomething |
Exactly.
What's depressing (but not surprising given our current fanbase) is how many have already decided we've pulled a fast one and how damaging that is to us.
Waiting for the facts from FIFA is obviously not an option for some people. [Post edited 12 Aug 2014 15:20]
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Aye, the assumptions going on are a bit weird. The whole mud sticks argument is equally baffling. If a third party goes around spouting nonsense, it's not really the club's fault. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:41 - Aug 12 with 1733 views | dobjack2 |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:30 - Aug 12 by Uxbridge |
Aye, the assumptions going on are a bit weird. The whole mud sticks argument is equally baffling. If a third party goes around spouting nonsense, it's not really the club's fault. |
Whilst I agree there is also a saying that there is no smoke without fire. Even if this comes to nothing there will be a smell of it may have been legal but sharp practice hanging over us. | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:46 - Aug 12 with 1719 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:20 - Aug 12 by JackSomething |
Exactly.
What's depressing (but not surprising given our current fanbase) is how many have already decided we've pulled a fast one and how damaging that is to us.
Waiting for the facts from FIFA is obviously not an option for some people. [Post edited 12 Aug 2014 15:20]
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It's clear to see that we've hidden the real cost of Vorm in the transfer "deal" as a whole.
Firstly, Is there anyone of any sane mind thinking otherwise?
Good, so.....
The poor Utrecht chairman and their fans have no doubt been following Vorm's progress since we basically mugged them off for £1.5m (good business) He has been first choice Premier League player for us when fit.
Now....
If Spurs hadn't wanted Vorm do any of you really think we would have sold him for nothing?
How many of you would be up in arms about that?
Most people would have been looking for anywhere between £2m and £5m. Without a doubt.
Utrecht also understand the same.
We camouflaged his price to stitch up a fellow club - a club who are not one of the rich super-powers of world football. A club, in that respect, like ourselves.
Nothing illegal has gone on - just a proper shafting and bad practice.
We have got form for things like this in the past.
Pay up the money and issue an apology. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:46 - Aug 12 with 1719 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:41 - Aug 12 by dobjack2 |
Whilst I agree there is also a saying that there is no smoke without fire. Even if this comes to nothing there will be a smell of it may have been legal but sharp practice hanging over us. |
There's also innocent until proven guilty. Unless we're saying there's no such thing as a truly innocent party, which I have to say is bollox. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:50 - Aug 12 with 1705 views | Tom1912 |
There is a lot of smoke without fire in football. | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:50 - Aug 12 with 1704 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:46 - Aug 12 by _ |
It's clear to see that we've hidden the real cost of Vorm in the transfer "deal" as a whole.
Firstly, Is there anyone of any sane mind thinking otherwise?
Good, so.....
The poor Utrecht chairman and their fans have no doubt been following Vorm's progress since we basically mugged them off for £1.5m (good business) He has been first choice Premier League player for us when fit.
Now....
If Spurs hadn't wanted Vorm do any of you really think we would have sold him for nothing?
How many of you would be up in arms about that?
Most people would have been looking for anywhere between £2m and £5m. Without a doubt.
Utrecht also understand the same.
We camouflaged his price to stitch up a fellow club - a club who are not one of the rich super-powers of world football. A club, in that respect, like ourselves.
Nothing illegal has gone on - just a proper shafting and bad practice.
We have got form for things like this in the past.
Pay up the money and issue an apology. |
How much money should we pay up?
What form do we have in this regard?
How is it clear to see that the cost of his transfer has been hidden?
We don't know the details of this deal at all. Unless that becomes public knowledge, it's all pure speculation.
On a similar line, I'd have valued Davies at somewhere north of £15m. Others had him less than £10m. The market was seeing similar or inferior players going for even more. It seems clear we sold him nearer the latter price. Who's right?
It's the assumption that there must be something fishy going on here I don't get. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:52 - Aug 12 with 1690 views | JackSomething |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:46 - Aug 12 by _ |
It's clear to see that we've hidden the real cost of Vorm in the transfer "deal" as a whole.
Firstly, Is there anyone of any sane mind thinking otherwise?
Good, so.....
The poor Utrecht chairman and their fans have no doubt been following Vorm's progress since we basically mugged them off for £1.5m (good business) He has been first choice Premier League player for us when fit.
Now....
If Spurs hadn't wanted Vorm do any of you really think we would have sold him for nothing?
How many of you would be up in arms about that?
Most people would have been looking for anywhere between £2m and £5m. Without a doubt.
Utrecht also understand the same.
We camouflaged his price to stitch up a fellow club - a club who are not one of the rich super-powers of world football. A club, in that respect, like ourselves.
Nothing illegal has gone on - just a proper shafting and bad practice.
We have got form for things like this in the past.
Pay up the money and issue an apology. |
If we've followed the rules, then I fail to understand how any supporter of the club could want us to hand over a substantial amount of money when we don't have to.
Especially when those same supporters want money spent on the squad, expanding the stadium, lowering ticket prices, etc... | |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:53 - Aug 12 with 1678 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:52 - Aug 12 by JackSomething |
If we've followed the rules, then I fail to understand how any supporter of the club could want us to hand over a substantial amount of money when we don't have to.
Especially when those same supporters want money spent on the squad, expanding the stadium, lowering ticket prices, etc... |
Well that I can understand. I always think we should act honourably where at all possible. Not a soft touch of course, but if Utrecht are due then we should pay them.
It's the whole Utrecht being due thing that isn't clear at all. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:53 - Aug 12 with 1674 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:50 - Aug 12 by Uxbridge |
How much money should we pay up?
What form do we have in this regard?
How is it clear to see that the cost of his transfer has been hidden?
We don't know the details of this deal at all. Unless that becomes public knowledge, it's all pure speculation.
On a similar line, I'd have valued Davies at somewhere north of £15m. Others had him less than £10m. The market was seeing similar or inferior players going for even more. It seems clear we sold him nearer the latter price. Who's right?
It's the assumption that there must be something fishy going on here I don't get. |
Just an honest answer please.... No fluff, just hit me straight up.
The scenario:
QPR are in for a keeper; they choose Vorm, the haggle begins. The PS forum has a thread with differing opinions on his value.
What would you have said? | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:57 - Aug 12 with 1659 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:53 - Aug 12 by Uxbridge |
Well that I can understand. I always think we should act honourably where at all possible. Not a soft touch of course, but if Utrecht are due then we should pay them.
It's the whole Utrecht being due thing that isn't clear at all. |
Well that's exactly what has happened. Phew, finally...
Creative [accountancy] transfer dealings | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:59 - Aug 12 with 1654 views | Tom1912 |
That example isn't comparable because in real life no one wanted Vorm. Not even us. Which is where the problem lies.
The question is would we have got better value keeping Vorm on the bench at a cost of £1.5m-£2m in wages than by letting him go for free? | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:01 - Aug 12 with 1650 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:53 - Aug 12 by _ |
Just an honest answer please.... No fluff, just hit me straight up.
The scenario:
QPR are in for a keeper; they choose Vorm, the haggle begins. The PS forum has a thread with differing opinions on his value.
What would you have said? |
QPR? £20m. Anyone else? Take the zero off. £2-3m maybe? I dunno. Not a lot though.
He's only worth what we can sell him for, and while Liverpool were mentioned I didn't exactly see a billing war going for him. Plus remember we already signed his replacement and if we didn't get rid we'd be left with an unhappy goalkeeper who would likely cost us somewhere around £2m a year to sit on the bench. That's a significant factor. We wanted rid and we found a taker. Could we have got more if we'd waited? Possibly. Has someone of his quality been sold for loads more in the past? Undoubtedly.
Vorm's been junk for about 18 months. He had something like a 60% save percentage at some point last season, which is beyond awful. That Southampton game burnt the last bridge for me. I'm just glad we've replaced him with someone IMO who is better and without costing us in the process. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:01 - Aug 12 with 1648 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:59 - Aug 12 by Tom1912 |
That example isn't comparable because in real life no one wanted Vorm. Not even us. Which is where the problem lies.
The question is would we have got better value keeping Vorm on the bench at a cost of £1.5m-£2m in wages than by letting him go for free? |
Don't be ridiculous - No one wanted him!??
What makes you think you know that then?
We already know Liverpool and Spurs made enquiries. Fack, he even went to one of them (not bad for no-one wanting him) haha. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:01 - Aug 12 with 1648 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:57 - Aug 12 by _ |
Well that's exactly what has happened. Phew, finally...
Creative [accountancy] transfer dealings |
It has? I'm still none the wiser. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:05 - Aug 12 with 1637 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:01 - Aug 12 by Uxbridge |
QPR? £20m. Anyone else? Take the zero off. £2-3m maybe? I dunno. Not a lot though.
He's only worth what we can sell him for, and while Liverpool were mentioned I didn't exactly see a billing war going for him. Plus remember we already signed his replacement and if we didn't get rid we'd be left with an unhappy goalkeeper who would likely cost us somewhere around £2m a year to sit on the bench. That's a significant factor. We wanted rid and we found a taker. Could we have got more if we'd waited? Possibly. Has someone of his quality been sold for loads more in the past? Undoubtedly.
Vorm's been junk for about 18 months. He had something like a 60% save percentage at some point last season, which is beyond awful. That Southampton game burnt the last bridge for me. I'm just glad we've replaced him with someone IMO who is better and without costing us in the process. |
Haha!!!
So you reluctantly came up with £2m to £3m and that you had to grit your teeth to type out.
So adding on at least another half a million to a million to apply some more rationality into your "value" you're talking £3m to £4m.
That sounds about right for a Dutch international first team Premier League regular.
That, Andrew, is his true value and that would have netted Utrecht, what, £500k to £800k or so... | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:07 - Aug 12 with 1626 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:05 - Aug 12 by _ |
Haha!!!
So you reluctantly came up with £2m to £3m and that you had to grit your teeth to type out.
So adding on at least another half a million to a million to apply some more rationality into your "value" you're talking £3m to £4m.
That sounds about right for a Dutch international first team Premier League regular.
That, Andrew, is his true value and that would have netted Utrecht, what, £500k to £800k or so... |
You're confusing value if someone was looking to buy him versus value we'd sell him just to get him off the books.
The former might well be £4m. The latter could well be nil. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:08 - Aug 12 with 1620 views | Witneyjack |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:46 - Aug 12 by Uxbridge |
There's also innocent until proven guilty. Unless we're saying there's no such thing as a truly innocent party, which I have to say is bollox. |
Which is precisely what I said earlier in this thread. Why people can't wait to see the outcome of Utrecht's complaint to FIFA before criticising the club is beyond me. |  | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:10 - Aug 12 with 1613 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:07 - Aug 12 by Uxbridge |
You're confusing value if someone was looking to buy him versus value we'd sell him just to get him off the books.
The former might well be £4m. The latter could well be nil. |
There's no way in Gods earth would we just get rid of a sale-able asset of £3m to £4m just to get him off the books.
Vorm is not a free transfer player. No way at all.
Can you imagine the uproar on here if we'd got shot for Jackshit!?!? | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:14 - Aug 12 with 1592 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:05 - Aug 12 by _ |
Haha!!!
So you reluctantly came up with £2m to £3m and that you had to grit your teeth to type out.
So adding on at least another half a million to a million to apply some more rationality into your "value" you're talking £3m to £4m.
That sounds about right for a Dutch international first team Premier League regular.
That, Andrew, is his true value and that would have netted Utrecht, what, £500k to £800k or so... |
just one correction (or 2 actually).
When he was sold he was a third choice Dutch goalkeeper and the Swansea City back up goalkeeper to the one that we had already (note timings here) brought in from Arsenal.
£1.5m - £2m for the Swansea back up goalie seems like a fair price to me. | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:14 - Aug 12 with 1591 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:10 - Aug 12 by _ |
There's no way in Gods earth would we just get rid of a sale-able asset of £3m to £4m just to get him off the books.
Vorm is not a free transfer player. No way at all.
Can you imagine the uproar on here if we'd got shot for Jackshit!?!? |
If he's costing us £2m a year, and we need to free up the cash for whatever reason, then it's quite likely we'd accept a much lower price isn't it?
Maybe not free, but a 50% reduction for a quick sale and get him off the books? Sounds quite plausible to me.
[Post edited 12 Aug 2014 16:15]
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:32 - Aug 12 with 1555 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:14 - Aug 12 by londonlisa2001 |
just one correction (or 2 actually).
When he was sold he was a third choice Dutch goalkeeper and the Swansea City back up goalkeeper to the one that we had already (note timings here) brought in from Arsenal.
£1.5m - £2m for the Swansea back up goalie seems like a fair price to me. |
Haha!
Yes, that's one way to rationalise it and even that would provide Utrecht with a sell on fee.
Do you think we would have touted him as back-up keeper when tying to sell him then? The rhetoric coming from the club would be they would fight it out for no. 1.
Poor effort, Lisa, very poor. | |
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