| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted 07:58 - Nov 5 with 6530 views | Phil_S |
Criticism of the Swansea playing squad and style over the past few years has been relatively small and infrequent. The plaudits have far outweighed the negative comments but over the past few weeks the criticism has increased and in some quarters it almost feels hysterical.
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/33268 |  | | |  |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:08 - Nov 5 with 2981 views | 2face |
I think it is fair for the fans to demand that a game against the arch enemy should be approached with a strategy to win. Playing to "not lose" in the derby is not acceptable imo. And I think it's fair that the fans make it plain for everybody to see. In Barcelona the fans will arrange demonstrations if similar tactics are being used. And I think it is fully appropriate. Against the local rival you either win or you "die" trying. That's what I think.  |  | | |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:19 - Nov 5 with 2965 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:08 - Nov 5 by 2face |
I think it is fair for the fans to demand that a game against the arch enemy should be approached with a strategy to win. Playing to "not lose" in the derby is not acceptable imo. And I think it's fair that the fans make it plain for everybody to see. In Barcelona the fans will arrange demonstrations if similar tactics are being used. And I think it is fully appropriate. Against the local rival you either win or you "die" trying. That's what I think. |
And after watching how awful Cardiff were in the first half surely Laudrup should have made a change THEN , Pozuelo for Shelvey as JJS had little effect on our game and a couple of decent through balls would have got us the goal that probably would have finished them |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:19 - Nov 5 with 2962 views | Phil_S |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:08 - Nov 5 by 2face |
I think it is fair for the fans to demand that a game against the arch enemy should be approached with a strategy to win. Playing to "not lose" in the derby is not acceptable imo. And I think it's fair that the fans make it plain for everybody to see. In Barcelona the fans will arrange demonstrations if similar tactics are being used. And I think it is fully appropriate. Against the local rival you either win or you "die" trying. That's what I think. |
Agreed and the point made in the second paragraph | | | |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:20 - Nov 5 with 2958 views | razorjack |
And god help them in Italy.
Our lot are getting away lightly here. |  |
| Forgive your enemies,but never forget their names. |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:58 - Nov 5 with 2883 views | ScoobyWho |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:20 - Nov 5 by razorjack |
And god help them in Italy.
Our lot are getting away lightly here. |
I don't thinks its much to ask, effort in the derby. |  |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:02 - Nov 5 with 2788 views | _ |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:19 - Nov 5 by Phil_S |
Agreed and the point made in the second paragraph |
Nah, I disagree. Especially about Shelvey.
I watched the game back last night and it was nothing like as bad as many are describing it on here.
I'll post up something later if I get the chance, been doing a bit of research based on last season also.
The team are doing just fine and no different really from any other season in this league - the fans, however, are acting like petulant children demanding this, that and the other with no real clue as to what they mean or if there's anything realistic in what they're asking.
Its the fans who have set themselves up for this fall, no one else. Signing a player for £12m and winning a major cup and being in Europe, perversely hasn't helped. |  |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:13 - Nov 5 with 2758 views | lovejuicejack |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 09:20 - Nov 5 by razorjack |
And god help them in Italy.
Our lot are getting away lightly here. |
Spot on with that post, they say they know what the derby means to us but to me thats just words because if they did know then they would of given blood in that game. we need to voice our disapproval to show we wont put up with it one bit. |  | | |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:14 - Nov 5 with 2754 views | Apathy |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:02 - Nov 5 by _ |
Nah, I disagree. Especially about Shelvey.
I watched the game back last night and it was nothing like as bad as many are describing it on here.
I'll post up something later if I get the chance, been doing a bit of research based on last season also.
The team are doing just fine and no different really from any other season in this league - the fans, however, are acting like petulant children demanding this, that and the other with no real clue as to what they mean or if there's anything realistic in what they're asking.
Its the fans who have set themselves up for this fall, no one else. Signing a player for £12m and winning a major cup and being in Europe, perversely hasn't helped. |
Expectations are ridiculously high with too many of our lot sadly, mate. Too much success too soon for too many of them. |  |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:15 - Nov 5 with 2753 views | lovejuicejack |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:02 - Nov 5 by _ |
Nah, I disagree. Especially about Shelvey.
I watched the game back last night and it was nothing like as bad as many are describing it on here.
I'll post up something later if I get the chance, been doing a bit of research based on last season also.
The team are doing just fine and no different really from any other season in this league - the fans, however, are acting like petulant children demanding this, that and the other with no real clue as to what they mean or if there's anything realistic in what they're asking.
Its the fans who have set themselves up for this fall, no one else. Signing a player for £12m and winning a major cup and being in Europe, perversely hasn't helped. |
We were playing better football last season compared to this regardless of points or table position. | | | |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:20 - Nov 5 with 2737 views | jruss1 |
We were dreadful Sunday, against a very limited team. No other way to describe it. | | | |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:32 - Nov 5 with 2706 views | waynekerr55 |
What I will say is that there does seem to be a lot of "they are told to play that way"
Surely the manager would prefer the wingers to play wide and create chances than run into a brick wall and give the ball away.
I think in football players (a) aren't given enough responsibility and (b) don't take responsibility
Sounds a bit of a contradiction in terms, but that's what it could be |  |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:44 - Nov 5 with 2677 views | Starsky |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:02 - Nov 5 by _ |
Nah, I disagree. Especially about Shelvey.
I watched the game back last night and it was nothing like as bad as many are describing it on here.
I'll post up something later if I get the chance, been doing a bit of research based on last season also.
The team are doing just fine and no different really from any other season in this league - the fans, however, are acting like petulant children demanding this, that and the other with no real clue as to what they mean or if there's anything realistic in what they're asking.
Its the fans who have set themselves up for this fall, no one else. Signing a player for £12m and winning a major cup and being in Europe, perversely hasn't helped. |
I do agree with the essence of your post Chris. Some of the vitriol towards some of our players has been too much. However, when our team captain goes public with his frustration over what went on, I'm listening. Rangel & Williams in particular we're really up for it on the night. The rest of them were out fought in the second half.
If we up the tempo and set up more positively, then we'll have a good season. |  |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:50 - Nov 5 with 2656 views | Zut_Alors |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:32 - Nov 5 by waynekerr55 |
What I will say is that there does seem to be a lot of "they are told to play that way"
Surely the manager would prefer the wingers to play wide and create chances than run into a brick wall and give the ball away.
I think in football players (a) aren't given enough responsibility and (b) don't take responsibility
Sounds a bit of a contradiction in terms, but that's what it could be |
Tricky, though, because you can easily end up with divided squads or unbalanced teams if you start having players deciding their own tactics. In terms of accepting the've under-performed, however, i think you're right on the second point: speaking up like Ash did, admitting you were poor, and then putting things right in forthcoming games is the best way of taking responsibility. [Post edited 5 Nov 2013 11:51]
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:53 - Nov 5 with 2643 views | waynekerr55 |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:50 - Nov 5 by Zut_Alors |
Tricky, though, because you can easily end up with divided squads or unbalanced teams if you start having players deciding their own tactics. In terms of accepting the've under-performed, however, i think you're right on the second point: speaking up like Ash did, admitting you were poor, and then putting things right in forthcoming games is the best way of taking responsibility. [Post edited 5 Nov 2013 11:51]
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I'm not sure about that. I remember reading Graham Hunter's book and Guardiola beat himself up about Inieista's goal against Chelski in 09 (because Iniesta pushed himself further up to play in between the centre backs and centre mids and he didn't think of that) but he was obviously glad as he had made that choice himself rather than pigeon holing himself as per the pre game instructions | |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:05 - Nov 5 with 2619 views | Zut_Alors |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:53 - Nov 5 by waynekerr55 |
I'm not sure about that. I remember reading Graham Hunter's book and Guardiola beat himself up about Inieista's goal against Chelski in 09 (because Iniesta pushed himself further up to play in between the centre backs and centre mids and he didn't think of that) but he was obviously glad as he had made that choice himself rather than pigeon holing himself as per the pre game instructions |
Interesting that. I guess you do want players to be able to mix things up, but not every player is as intelligent as Iniesta. I've always felt one of our main strengths in recent years has been the balance in the squad — every player knowing what he's meant to be doing, link ups like Dyer and Rangel's were the foundation of the attacking flow. Someone like Shelvey, for example, seems, for me, to need clear direction to get the best out of his undoubted natural talent, and at the moment i'm not sure that's either being delivered or interpreted correctly. It's for that same reason i think Michu switching back and forth from striker to AM is disrupting our flow in the final third. | | | |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:07 - Nov 5 with 2613 views | westside |
maybe our players should start doing their talking on the pitch instead of off it !
rangel was having a go at soton that they weren't that good yet we lost to them.
then he was having a go at the redbirds saying medel wasn't worth the money and he'd get sent off yet we lost to them as well and vorm got sent off.
they need to concentrate on themselves and not slagging off the opposition |  | | |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:28 - Nov 5 with 2560 views | ScoobyWho |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:07 - Nov 5 by westside |
maybe our players should start doing their talking on the pitch instead of off it !
rangel was having a go at soton that they weren't that good yet we lost to them.
then he was having a go at the redbirds saying medel wasn't worth the money and he'd get sent off yet we lost to them as well and vorm got sent off.
they need to concentrate on themselves and not slagging off the opposition |
Well, thats what the media reported, what he said is probably far different to that. | |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:41 - Nov 5 with 2516 views | lovejuicejack |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:14 - Nov 5 by Apathy |
Expectations are ridiculously high with too many of our lot sadly, mate. Too much success too soon for too many of them. |
Does that include Huw Jenkins then, I ask as he was in the paper with his expectations? | | | |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:50 - Nov 5 with 2485 views | _ |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:15 - Nov 5 by lovejuicejack |
We were playing better football last season compared to this regardless of points or table position. |
Were we?
I beg to differ....
Swansea City 2-2 Sunderland
Aston Villa 2-0 Swansea City
Swansea City 0-3 Everton
Stoke City 2-0 Swansea City
Swansea City 2-2 Reading
That's 2 points from 15 - 3 of those games were home.
We were shocking against Everton, Villa and Stoke for sure. We were unlucky against Reading but come on, that result isn't any better really than losing to the scum.
Maybe we want to think we were better, maybe its because the scum weren't any threat to us, maybe our expectations have gone completely haywire and a bunch of message board posters are trying to tell Alan Curtis, Morten Wieghorst and Michael Laudrup a thing or two about football?? Or even our players of which we have internationals from Spain, England and Holland included.
It's a facking sham. Our support is shit. [Post edited 5 Nov 2013 12:57]
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:52 - Nov 5 with 2477 views | Flashberryjack |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 11:02 - Nov 5 by _ |
Nah, I disagree. Especially about Shelvey.
I watched the game back last night and it was nothing like as bad as many are describing it on here.
I'll post up something later if I get the chance, been doing a bit of research based on last season also.
The team are doing just fine and no different really from any other season in this league - the fans, however, are acting like petulant children demanding this, that and the other with no real clue as to what they mean or if there's anything realistic in what they're asking.
Its the fans who have set themselves up for this fall, no one else. Signing a player for £12m and winning a major cup and being in Europe, perversely hasn't helped. |
I also watched the game back last night, and I completely agree.
When I watched it live I must admit my mind was clouded by the hysteria that always goes with games against the scum.
But in the cold light of day, we were never as bad as some on here are claiming, not at our best, sure, but certainly not as awful as has been suggested.
Also... not Shelvey's best game admittedly, but the criticism heaped upon him is definitely not warranted.... there were others that played their part in losing that game, but they seem to have escaped most of the sh*te that's being aimed at Shelvey.
We lose an away game..... and f*ck me it's the end of football as we know it... yes! it was against Cardiff, but in the grand scheme of things, just another game.
All of us just need to chill, dust ourselves down and thank the sweet lord for what we have, and get on with rest of the season.
If we/the players allow the stench of losing to our rivals linger, it will eat away at confidence on and off the field.
We have made massive steps over a very short period of time, we must not take all that for granted, and learn not to expect our next steps to be any easier, because some are still drunk on past success.
It's always the last few strides up the mountain that are the hardest, and the ones that carry the greatest expectations but are also the most dangerous. |  |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:54 - Nov 5 with 2474 views | Darran |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:41 - Nov 5 by lovejuicejack |
Does that include Huw Jenkins then, I ask as he was in the paper with his expectations? |
Well considering we were 9th when he must have given the interview i'd say it does.
Especially as we'd still only be 9th if we'd won on Sunday. |  |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:58 - Nov 5 with 2445 views | _ |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:52 - Nov 5 by Flashberryjack |
I also watched the game back last night, and I completely agree.
When I watched it live I must admit my mind was clouded by the hysteria that always goes with games against the scum.
But in the cold light of day, we were never as bad as some on here are claiming, not at our best, sure, but certainly not as awful as has been suggested.
Also... not Shelvey's best game admittedly, but the criticism heaped upon him is definitely not warranted.... there were others that played their part in losing that game, but they seem to have escaped most of the sh*te that's being aimed at Shelvey.
We lose an away game..... and f*ck me it's the end of football as we know it... yes! it was against Cardiff, but in the grand scheme of things, just another game.
All of us just need to chill, dust ourselves down and thank the sweet lord for what we have, and get on with rest of the season.
If we/the players allow the stench of losing to our rivals linger, it will eat away at confidence on and off the field.
We have made massive steps over a very short period of time, we must not take all that for granted, and learn not to expect our next steps to be any easier, because some are still drunk on past success.
It's always the last few strides up the mountain that are the hardest, and the ones that carry the greatest expectations but are also the most dangerous. |
Superb effort. | |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 13:02 - Nov 5 with 2431 views | _ |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 12:54 - Nov 5 by Darran |
Well considering we were 9th when he must have given the interview i'd say it does.
Especially as we'd still only be 9th if we'd won on Sunday. |
Too true.
Jenkins just doesn't want to have a defeatist attitude and that's fair enough, but he's also not being very realistic either as I'm guessing he's having a pop at Laudrup's "we can't finish any higher than 8th" comments.
Laudrup will be doing all in his power to finish as high as he can, even higher than 8th if possible but come on, he's obviously trying to temper some ridiculously high expectations....and failing, unfortunately. | |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 13:20 - Nov 5 with 2384 views | Uxbridge |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 13:02 - Nov 5 by _ |
Too true.
Jenkins just doesn't want to have a defeatist attitude and that's fair enough, but he's also not being very realistic either as I'm guessing he's having a pop at Laudrup's "we can't finish any higher than 8th" comments.
Laudrup will be doing all in his power to finish as high as he can, even higher than 8th if possible but come on, he's obviously trying to temper some ridiculously high expectations....and failing, unfortunately. |
Is Laudrup saying it to dampen expectations, or is he saying it because he doesn't think we have a chance? Bit concerned if it it's the latter ... sure we'll always be underdogs but to concede any chance for victory when we've beaten a lot of the top teams is just throwing things away .... which i think is HJ's point.
It's an interesting point about whether the Swans "crisis" is entirely in the heads of some supporters. I'm not sure it is, but it's a fair question to ask given our league position and record in Europe to date. |  |
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| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 13:48 - Nov 5 with 2326 views | _ |
| Time To Stand Up And Be Counted on 13:20 - Nov 5 by Uxbridge |
Is Laudrup saying it to dampen expectations, or is he saying it because he doesn't think we have a chance? Bit concerned if it it's the latter ... sure we'll always be underdogs but to concede any chance for victory when we've beaten a lot of the top teams is just throwing things away .... which i think is HJ's point.
It's an interesting point about whether the Swans "crisis" is entirely in the heads of some supporters. I'm not sure it is, but it's a fair question to ask given our league position and record in Europe to date. |
You were one of the first to stick the boot in after we'd lost Sunday and lets be honest here, And, you're always one of the first to explain [to Cardiff fans] why we are better than them.
Don't you think that has a lot to do with your outpouring? Not just you, but so many others that have lauded it loud and proud against every scum fan for 3 years?
Their message board did exactly the same thing when we beat them in the League cup in 2009 and when Emnes scored in that 1-0 win up there.
Did you turn on the players and manager when we lost to Stoke 2-0 last season, which was our 3rd defeat on the bounce - no Europe then either and no major cup won?? | |
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