| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. 09:40 - May 2 with 4577 views | kirbys |
It's worth highlighting the fact that inspite of some serious managerial disturbances Dales youth team has had another very successful season. Whilst not quite emulating last years magnificent performance, credit is due to Beechy, Tony Ellis and company for producing and maintaining a side that was very difficult to beat and was always likely to score. I only wish more players could find their way into the ranks of the first team squad, we only appear to allow a maximum of two per season - which cannot be right if there are more players worthy of the step up, especially in a time when wholesale squad changes are in the offing. Other seasons there may be none good enough, but this apparent imposed limit, if it exists, cannot be good for the future outcomes.
It will be interesting to see whether there are going to be changes in this successful youth managment set up, we should be proud of their collective achievements and do everything in the clubs power to build on them. Mr Coleman and Mr Dunphy please take note.
Whilst on my soap box, who else would like to see more publicity, reports, comments about the youth team? We really should do more in this respect.
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| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 10:47 - May 2 with 4478 views | Dickydaler |
I'm sure if any player is worthy of a chance of training with the first team to see if they can hack it with the big boys Beech and Ellis will have put their names forward. It is quite a big step from youth squad to actually playing for the first team. After saying that I also would like to see more youth players given the chance.
I have watched a number of youth team matches during the last couple of seasons and there have been a few who have stood out for me. But whether they have what it takes for a higher level of football only the management can assess this as they work with them day in day out.
It seems to me that very few youth team players get put forward for the step up at most clubs; I'm not sure if this is fact but thats the impression I get.
Yes it would be good if more info was given to us from the club via the website and programme and I'm sure it would be, but it is probably a matter of priority; few employees involved in a great deal of work. I did have this conversation with TVOS once and he would be only too pleased to include articles about the youth team in the prog if someone was willing to commit to regular submissions. | | | |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 11:04 - May 2 with 4445 views | TVOS1907 |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 10:47 - May 2 by Dickydaler |
I'm sure if any player is worthy of a chance of training with the first team to see if they can hack it with the big boys Beech and Ellis will have put their names forward. It is quite a big step from youth squad to actually playing for the first team. After saying that I also would like to see more youth players given the chance.
I have watched a number of youth team matches during the last couple of seasons and there have been a few who have stood out for me. But whether they have what it takes for a higher level of football only the management can assess this as they work with them day in day out.
It seems to me that very few youth team players get put forward for the step up at most clubs; I'm not sure if this is fact but thats the impression I get.
Yes it would be good if more info was given to us from the club via the website and programme and I'm sure it would be, but it is probably a matter of priority; few employees involved in a great deal of work. I did have this conversation with TVOS once and he would be only too pleased to include articles about the youth team in the prog if someone was willing to commit to regular submissions. |
That's correct DD.
News and match reports were submitted the season before this one, but they have dried up this year and it's very inconvenient to leave a page waiting for something, only for it not to appear by the deadlines, if at all.
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 11:05 - May 2 with 4444 views | fitzochris |
The importance of youth players cannot be overlooked, as it's obviously where every player starts out. Even Beckham was one once.
For a club like ours, where transfer fees tend to be a no-go, creating our own players is even more vital. Broken toys are fine, but as Crewe have proven at this level time and time again, you can't beat a build-your-own policy. Not only does it give you initial success on the pitch it ultimately keeps the club running financially too.
I'm surprised we haven't made more of this avenue in the past and hope we do so in the future. |  |
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| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 11:16 - May 2 with 4429 views | StAnnesDale |
There is a very good reason why so few youth team players make the step up to first team level. They are not good enough for professional football. If it was a case of Rochdale not recoginsing potential, then all our released youth team players would end up playing professionally for another club. They nearly always don't. A good youth team is like a good reserve team - irrelevant. What you want is the occasional good player coming through to first team squad rather than a good youth team who are all good at that level but short of the required standard for League football.
The Chairman knows this and so do the Managers - including ex youth team managers like Hill.
Most clubs consider a 1:10 ration a success, i.e. 1 player from any youth team moving on to play regularly for the first team.
You also have to remember that the majority of youth team players who are at the big clubs are also getting released so when choosing youth team level players to recruit to first team squads there are 100s of players available not just home grown ones. | | | |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 11:20 - May 2 with 4419 views | D_Alien |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 11:05 - May 2 by fitzochris |
The importance of youth players cannot be overlooked, as it's obviously where every player starts out. Even Beckham was one once.
For a club like ours, where transfer fees tend to be a no-go, creating our own players is even more vital. Broken toys are fine, but as Crewe have proven at this level time and time again, you can't beat a build-your-own policy. Not only does it give you initial success on the pitch it ultimately keeps the club running financially too.
I'm surprised we haven't made more of this avenue in the past and hope we do so in the future. |
I really hate to say this, but surely this was the reasoning behind Steve Eyre's appointment last summer? Without digging up old wounds, if anyone thinks it was a "thoughtless" appointment, it wasn't. It just didn't work. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 11:35 - May 2 with 4395 views | fitzochris |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 11:20 - May 2 by D_Alien |
I really hate to say this, but surely this was the reasoning behind Steve Eyre's appointment last summer? Without digging up old wounds, if anyone thinks it was a "thoughtless" appointment, it wasn't. It just didn't work. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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But I would suggest it is the job of the youth manager or his assistant to actively scout and recruit young talent, not the first team manager. The latter only comes into play once the youth team manager puts forward a youth player to be judged for the first team. | |
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| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 12:59 - May 2 with 4262 views | seasidedale |
Eyres did say at beginning of the season wanted weekly written reports on the youth team so he could monitor progress | | | |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 14:08 - May 2 with 4152 views | D_Alien |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 12:21 - May 2 by PDIDDY |
bringing on players is not a first team coaches job, the youth/ressie coach does that, then they progress to the 1st team where if all goes well they get a move but errr was in charge of kids at city, not 18/19 yr olds who had come through the ranks. so you are talking utter garbage, nowty knickers  |
Surely not?
I thought Eyre was 2nd only to Mancini and youngsters emerged ready for first team action and a move to the premiership at the age of 17
I stand corrected by your superior knowledge of male youths. | |
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| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 14:14 - May 2 with 4134 views | PDIDDY |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 14:08 - May 2 by D_Alien |
Surely not?
I thought Eyre was 2nd only to Mancini and youngsters emerged ready for first team action and a move to the premiership at the age of 17
I stand corrected by your superior knowledge of male youths. |
obviously you do, read your 1st post on the matter, blind beggar on saturday? you can buy me a beer |  |
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| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 19:17 - May 2 with 3980 views | TalkingSutty |
Is it cost effective to run a youth team or would we be better disbanding it and ploughing the money into the first team ?
How much per year does it cost in staff/players wages, transport, kit, etc. Do the benefits outweigh the costs ?? |  | | |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 19:35 - May 2 with 3934 views | phomem |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 19:17 - May 2 by TalkingSutty |
Is it cost effective to run a youth team or would we be better disbanding it and ploughing the money into the first team ?
How much per year does it cost in staff/players wages, transport, kit, etc. Do the benefits outweigh the costs ?? |
Gilks, Thompson, Warner anyone else progressed to first team regular from yt over last few years? |  | | |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 19:36 - May 2 with 3932 views | ChaffRAFC |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 19:17 - May 2 by TalkingSutty |
Is it cost effective to run a youth team or would we be better disbanding it and ploughing the money into the first team ?
How much per year does it cost in staff/players wages, transport, kit, etc. Do the benefits outweigh the costs ?? |
But what incentive is there then to try and progress as a footballer at the age of say 10 at our club. We have the young kids who who play at that age and may be very good but will then go to the likes of bury and Oldham, they then start going to watch games, we lose them completely.
Definitely worth keeping for me. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 10:09 - May 3 with 3769 views | SFD |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 19:17 - May 2 by TalkingSutty |
Is it cost effective to run a youth team or would we be better disbanding it and ploughing the money into the first team ?
How much per year does it cost in staff/players wages, transport, kit, etc. Do the benefits outweigh the costs ?? |
You Keith Hill in disguise ???????? |  | | |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 14:41 - May 3 with 3622 views | johnofheywood |
Haven't the 'rules' on the geographical area that kids can be taken on from been changed this year, enabling the Premier League clubs just to take what they want from where they want? There was something on the Football League show or Late Kick Off about it, calling into question whether it would be worthwhile the 'lower league' clubs continuing to run academies and youth teams. It looks as though everything now is just run for the Premier Leagues clubs benefit. Having said that, we all dream of unearthing a diamond that will secure the clubs future for a few more seasons! | | | |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 19:40 - May 3 with 3523 views | jasp67 |
The rules were supposed to change for the start of next season, but it may be put back another year as there is a lot of work involved. The current structure will be replaced by the Elite Player Performance Programme, which as it suggests is all geared up around the premier league. There will no longer be centres of excellence and academy's. Clubs will fall into one of four categories, based on facilities, coaching staff, education and money that the club is prepared to spend on youth development. Category one is for the super rich such as city, category two is where most academy clubs will fall into. Lower league Centres of excellence clubs will aim to get into category three, The Dale included. Category four won't have a youth system. Most league clubs did not want the programme as there has been some huge changes to the way the big boys pay compensation to the lower league clubs, no more tribunal, just a fixed rate. The premier league threatened to hold back finances if the league did not sign up to it, typical. Hopefully we will keep our youth development programme because there are some great players who love wearing the Rochdale badge and the set up is superb |  | | |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 10:13 - May 4 with 3444 views | kirbys |
| Mr Dunphy and Mr Coleman please take note. on 19:40 - May 3 by jasp67 |
The rules were supposed to change for the start of next season, but it may be put back another year as there is a lot of work involved. The current structure will be replaced by the Elite Player Performance Programme, which as it suggests is all geared up around the premier league. There will no longer be centres of excellence and academy's. Clubs will fall into one of four categories, based on facilities, coaching staff, education and money that the club is prepared to spend on youth development. Category one is for the super rich such as city, category two is where most academy clubs will fall into. Lower league Centres of excellence clubs will aim to get into category three, The Dale included. Category four won't have a youth system. Most league clubs did not want the programme as there has been some huge changes to the way the big boys pay compensation to the lower league clubs, no more tribunal, just a fixed rate. The premier league threatened to hold back finances if the league did not sign up to it, typical. Hopefully we will keep our youth development programme because there are some great players who love wearing the Rochdale badge and the set up is superb |
I was unaware of the changes in structure as outlined by jasp67 - thanks for that information.
I guess this is a real threat to the set up at Rochdale following years of investment and over recent seasons brilliant performances in the league. Like all ventures it takes time to reach optimim and some on this site point out the paltry number of players reaching the first team. I can only say that the current management set up is producing above average performances for a number of seasons now - winning the league last year was a magnificent achievement- it would only be a matter of time before players are produced to the required standard to make the step up to full time pro.
This will be hindered by the limit on acceptance that appears to be operated by the club. If no one is good enough, then fair enough, no one should go forward for a contract, but if we have 4 good enough why not exploit all the hard work, nurturing and education and reward them and the staff. Ultimately it would pay back the investment.
Now we see a real threat to all lower club youth team set ups and who will gain from this - certainly not Englands young talent nor local football.
As for the premier league, what an awful reputation they have for young player development, rather buying from abroad.
Football has the gun pointing at it's foot for short term gain once more. | | | |
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