| Sarah Everad 17:01 - Sep 30 with 16803 views | Sirjohnalot |
A whole life sentence is extremely rare, only used in exceptional circumstances outside sexual killers of children, targeted police, multiple murderers etc.
What this animal did was so horrific the Judge ruled he will never be released, he will die in prison. It was the only possible sentence the Judge could impose, even though the press reports are horrific they did not report on all that he did. Evil psychopaths like can never be reformed.
Evil beyond belief, whilst there may be some debate about what should happen to Katie Price, I cannot imagine, for one second what on earth his barrister could have said on his behalf.
It's really important, as I've read online, people criticising his Counsel, that he was represented, to ensure that Justice is done, to ensure the law is applied correctly. If you are instructed, you are ethicially obliged to take it on, unless you think it is beyond your capabilities, or you know one of the parties so that you cannot be impartial etc.
It is likely that it will be appealed, you would not be carrying out your job properly if you didn't , such is the exceptional sentence, but I cannot see any Court overruling it.
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| Sarah Everad on 16:18 - Oct 1 with 950 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Sarah Everad on 13:48 - Oct 1 by controversial_jack |
He was known to be dodgy, and with a nickname like that. It reinforces my point that all cops close ranks and cover each others backs, |
No, no they don’t. Have you read the sentencing remarks ? The judge expressly said the police did the opposite, they trawled through over a 1000 hours of cctv to nail this man. Without the incredible investigation by the police, he’d have got off or the very least ran a trial. Due to the diligence, the evidence was overwhelming. The police hate a dirty copper.
In my career, I’ve come across a few dodgy coppers but that is the same in any profession, including mine. Police I know ran towards the MEN building here in Manchester, they’ve laid down their lives to protect others, vast majority do the job to do good. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 16:28 - Oct 1 with 940 views | fbreath |
All this advice of what to do if stopped by a police officer ring this number , do this do that is all well and good but not many would have their wits about them at the time with the adrenalin etc. that would be going through them even though they have done nothing wrong. Its just the fact of being confronted by the police does this to most innocent people.
I know I s***t myself if being followed in my car by police car and not doing anything wrong. Its a reaction most people have.
Are the police going to allow someone they suspect to make a phone call to someone else in say a foreign language who could be advising someone to get rid of stolen goods etc. as the police are on to them pretending they are actually asking for help.
Don't think the Met boss has thought it through its all just soundbites. |  |
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| Sarah Everad on 16:53 - Oct 1 with 913 views | Gwyn737 |
| Sarah Everad on 14:32 - Oct 1 by Dr_Parnassus |
Of course I know the details, it’s horrific.
What you are saying though is that no woman should be arrested by a male officer off the back of it. So that’s a police custody issue, custody begins at the minute of apprehension and arrest. Be that on the street, in a car or at the station.
So many men have been arrested on trumped up charges in order for police to then beat them, even kill them. But nobody is advocating that men shouldn’t be arrested by men.
This is a police vetting and recruitment issue. While you say everyone should be sacked if they have a history of violence against women, I say they should be if they have a history of violence full stop.
That vetting process would of course have stopped this in its tracks as he would not be an officer with the powers of arrest. Plus of course the majority victims of violence and deaths at the hands of authority figures would also decline, or at least should.
I am sure we have discussed it before and I have given my views on selective protection, I despise it. I just can’t fathom why someone would allow an officer to continue working if he has an extremely violent history against men and sack them if they have a history of violence against women.
Everyone deserves protection and it’s continuously overlooked. It doesn’t have to be a competition. If we are having reviews of policing and reviews of process, then let’s protect every victim, not just a select few. |
I agree with most of that.
Seems to be the narrative has become “How do we stop another Sarah Everard?” When we should be asking “How do we stop another Wayne Couzens?” |  | | |
| Sarah Everad on 16:56 - Oct 1 with 904 views | KeithHaynes |
| Sarah Everad on 16:28 - Oct 1 by fbreath |
All this advice of what to do if stopped by a police officer ring this number , do this do that is all well and good but not many would have their wits about them at the time with the adrenalin etc. that would be going through them even though they have done nothing wrong. Its just the fact of being confronted by the police does this to most innocent people.
I know I s***t myself if being followed in my car by police car and not doing anything wrong. Its a reaction most people have.
Are the police going to allow someone they suspect to make a phone call to someone else in say a foreign language who could be advising someone to get rid of stolen goods etc. as the police are on to them pretending they are actually asking for help.
Don't think the Met boss has thought it through its all just soundbites. |
Careful mate, you will be accused of all sorts 😉 |  |
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| Sarah Everad on 17:41 - Oct 1 with 870 views | Catullus |
| Sarah Everad on 16:56 - Oct 1 by KeithHaynes |
Careful mate, you will be accused of all sorts 😉 |
Maybe even common sense!
I agree with him. If I see a police car behind me I react nervously but that doesn't happen when on foot, if an officer is walking behind me I feel safe. It's strange really.
I think it's poor advice to tell women (or men) to challenge a plain clothes officer, that could lead to all sorts of nonsense and injuries. No, the Met needs to make changes. Then it's also up to the Met to screen their officers better. Didn't Couzens have a conviction for something? And now they think he has committed other crimes.
I think a lot of us have had dodgy interactions with the police, specially us football fans. We have to remember that the police are only human too and there's good and bad everywhere. Jess Phillips saying women shouldn't have to change their behaviour seems wrong to me too. We all have a duty to ourselves, we all need to be careful and take whatever steps are necessary for our own safety, we can't just walk around blaming other people, we have to look after ourselves first and foremost.
Not the Sarah Everard had put herslef in a silly situation, she was walking in a populated area. She just believed that Couzens was a safe person because of his warrant card, that's why the police need to make changes. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 19:46 - Oct 1 with 809 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 16:18 - Oct 1 by Sirjohnalot |
No, no they don’t. Have you read the sentencing remarks ? The judge expressly said the police did the opposite, they trawled through over a 1000 hours of cctv to nail this man. Without the incredible investigation by the police, he’d have got off or the very least ran a trial. Due to the diligence, the evidence was overwhelming. The police hate a dirty copper.
In my career, I’ve come across a few dodgy coppers but that is the same in any profession, including mine. Police I know ran towards the MEN building here in Manchester, they’ve laid down their lives to protect others, vast majority do the job to do good. |
Half the cases that have previously been mentioned in this thread have the police closing ranks, Hillsborough, Cardiff 3 etc
The police are paid well to do their job, civilians run towards danger to help without being paid to do so, the police are public servants and unfortunately don't do a good enough job, just like the judiciary they don't do a good enough job either as the truth is secondary to them, it's just a game, a charade trying to convince the jury to find in their favour to win the game, trying to get the truth and the correct verdict is secondary. |  |
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| Sarah Everad on 19:51 - Oct 1 with 803 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 17:41 - Oct 1 by Catullus |
Maybe even common sense!
I agree with him. If I see a police car behind me I react nervously but that doesn't happen when on foot, if an officer is walking behind me I feel safe. It's strange really.
I think it's poor advice to tell women (or men) to challenge a plain clothes officer, that could lead to all sorts of nonsense and injuries. No, the Met needs to make changes. Then it's also up to the Met to screen their officers better. Didn't Couzens have a conviction for something? And now they think he has committed other crimes.
I think a lot of us have had dodgy interactions with the police, specially us football fans. We have to remember that the police are only human too and there's good and bad everywhere. Jess Phillips saying women shouldn't have to change their behaviour seems wrong to me too. We all have a duty to ourselves, we all need to be careful and take whatever steps are necessary for our own safety, we can't just walk around blaming other people, we have to look after ourselves first and foremost.
Not the Sarah Everard had put herslef in a silly situation, she was walking in a populated area. She just believed that Couzens was a safe person because of his warrant card, that's why the police need to make changes. |
I think it's good advice to challenge plain clothes police as for starters somebody could be impersonating a police officer and secondly there a sexual predators within the police, the Times newspaper did an investigation a few years ago. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 19:55 - Oct 1 with 800 views | onehunglow |
| Sarah Everad on 19:51 - Oct 1 by trampie |
I think it's good advice to challenge plain clothes police as for starters somebody could be impersonating a police officer and secondly there a sexual predators within the police, the Times newspaper did an investigation a few years ago. |
Ive done three years Plain Clothes.
Frankly,I wish they 'd end it.People do not trust them and we will just have to accept the fact there will be more crime .
It is a war out there.Criminals v Public.
Depends who you want to succeed.
This is hard on time for many ,as is obvious on here ,reading the filthy shyte from the likes of Walt. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:07 - Oct 1 with 795 views | KeithHaynes |
| Sarah Everad on 17:41 - Oct 1 by Catullus |
Maybe even common sense!
I agree with him. If I see a police car behind me I react nervously but that doesn't happen when on foot, if an officer is walking behind me I feel safe. It's strange really.
I think it's poor advice to tell women (or men) to challenge a plain clothes officer, that could lead to all sorts of nonsense and injuries. No, the Met needs to make changes. Then it's also up to the Met to screen their officers better. Didn't Couzens have a conviction for something? And now they think he has committed other crimes.
I think a lot of us have had dodgy interactions with the police, specially us football fans. We have to remember that the police are only human too and there's good and bad everywhere. Jess Phillips saying women shouldn't have to change their behaviour seems wrong to me too. We all have a duty to ourselves, we all need to be careful and take whatever steps are necessary for our own safety, we can't just walk around blaming other people, we have to look after ourselves first and foremost.
Not the Sarah Everard had put herslef in a silly situation, she was walking in a populated area. She just believed that Couzens was a safe person because of his warrant card, that's why the police need to make changes. |
Ands they are ? | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:08 - Oct 1 with 791 views | trampie |
Some police have been known to trick and deceive women particularly under cover types, the police closed ranks and tried to deny such undercover units existed but the police lied and now say they have disbanded these units so they claim, yeah yeah.
Oh course some in the past have not just tricked, blackmailed and deceived but forced themselves on women, what with people being in power being in a position of power can lead to corruption especially when dealing with vunerable types then something needs to be done, don't trust strangers till they earn your trust and that applies to the police as well. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:10 - Oct 1 with 790 views | KeithHaynes |
| Sarah Everad on 20:08 - Oct 1 by trampie |
Some police have been known to trick and deceive women particularly under cover types, the police closed ranks and tried to deny such undercover units existed but the police lied and now say they have disbanded these units so they claim, yeah yeah.
Oh course some in the past have not just tricked, blackmailed and deceived but forced themselves on women, what with people being in power being in a position of power can lead to corruption especially when dealing with vunerable types then something needs to be done, don't trust strangers till they earn your trust and that applies to the police as well. |
So,
When someone doesn’t know they are the police they trick them ? | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:20 - Oct 1 with 782 views | Catullus |
| Sarah Everad on 20:07 - Oct 1 by KeithHaynes |
Ands they are ? |
Well there are experts who deal with this kind of thing but I'd suggest plain clothes officers only travle in pairs on duty and off duty they cannot pull people over but can only eport them. then if another thing like this is tried the person will hopefully know to run like hell!
Then there's screening. The checks that are done (or are supposed to be done) must be made more stringent. Maybe regular psychological checks.
Do all police have to give a DNA sample? Maybe they should so they can be excluded from any investigation at the beginning?
I'm sure brighter people than I can make good suggestions. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:20 - Oct 1 with 778 views | onehunglow |
| Sarah Everad on 20:08 - Oct 1 by trampie |
Some police have been known to trick and deceive women particularly under cover types, the police closed ranks and tried to deny such undercover units existed but the police lied and now say they have disbanded these units so they claim, yeah yeah.
Oh course some in the past have not just tricked, blackmailed and deceived but forced themselves on women, what with people being in power being in a position of power can lead to corruption especially when dealing with vunerable types then something needs to be done, don't trust strangers till they earn your trust and that applies to the police as well. |
Some police then.Not all?
That right?
How would Plaid police . ?
We are now seeing my point regarding public attitude to public and it's cowardice to back the bet option they have to fight crime.It aint perfect,it can never be.It never was and never will but these violent,untrustworthy scum are the ones between Good (that s us) and Evil "Scum criminals.
How would you catch major criminals Tramp ,say a serial violent burglar. How would you watch for him?In full uniform ?
I know this site is full of anti police but the naievity is staggering | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:27 - Oct 1 with 776 views | KeithHaynes |
| Sarah Everad on 20:20 - Oct 1 by onehunglow |
Some police then.Not all?
That right?
How would Plaid police . ?
We are now seeing my point regarding public attitude to public and it's cowardice to back the bet option they have to fight crime.It aint perfect,it can never be.It never was and never will but these violent,untrustworthy scum are the ones between Good (that s us) and Evil "Scum criminals.
How would you catch major criminals Tramp ,say a serial violent burglar. How would you watch for him?In full uniform ?
I know this site is full of anti police but the naievity is staggering |
It’s a shame the naivety is so bad it’s almost challenging the intelligence of the author. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:34 - Oct 1 with 759 views | onehunglow |
| Sarah Everad on 20:27 - Oct 1 by KeithHaynes |
It’s a shame the naivety is so bad it’s almost challenging the intelligence of the author. |
I was due to meet Jon at Preston but he got held up.
With hindsight I d rather have swerved that pitiful performance and pitted my wits against him. He seems a decent man;I just struggle with the morality in Court with Lawyers;you and I will have seen many vicious bar tewards found not guilty simply because a barrister has intimidated and befuddle a witness,not to say humiliate them. We've both seen it.
I honestly believe Police should have the right to withdraw labour and to have the balls to fight this onslaught of wholescale and hysterical abuse aimed at EVERY officer both present and retired.That means YOU,Keith. I know what sort of officer you were and you can check me out too. I take this personally,as we all should.
In short,Couzens deserves death and a slow one but to stain all officers aint right | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:40 - Oct 1 with 759 views | majorraglan |
| Sarah Everad on 12:02 - Oct 1 by Sirjohnalot |
In the Magistrates Court, no, you will not get legal aid. That was stopped. If you pay privately and are found Not Guilty, you will not get anywhere near all your money back, in fact people have been bankrupted trying to defend themselves.
In the Crown Court, if you are worknig, you will get legal aid, but you also then have to pay contributions to the Court for the case being brought to court which can be up to 90 % of your disposable income.
In reality if the Crown has a QC, then the defence will also be entitled to one. |
Can I just check, if someone is unemployed and they are taken to the Magistrates Court do they get Legal Aid? | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 20:44 - Oct 1 with 755 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Sarah Everad on 20:40 - Oct 1 by majorraglan |
Can I just check, if someone is unemployed and they are taken to the Magistrates Court do they get Legal Aid? |
Yes, I think the threshold is around £14,000. (Not been a solicitor for quite a few years so not filled one in for a while ) | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 20:47 - Oct 1 with 750 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 20:10 - Oct 1 by KeithHaynes |
So,
When someone doesn’t know they are the police they trick them ? |
They infiltrate left wing groups, peace groups, animal rights groups and trick the women in those groups, interestingly they don't tend to infiltrate right wing groups but that is another story. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:51 - Oct 1 with 743 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Sarah Everad on 20:34 - Oct 1 by onehunglow |
I was due to meet Jon at Preston but he got held up.
With hindsight I d rather have swerved that pitiful performance and pitted my wits against him. He seems a decent man;I just struggle with the morality in Court with Lawyers;you and I will have seen many vicious bar tewards found not guilty simply because a barrister has intimidated and befuddle a witness,not to say humiliate them. We've both seen it.
I honestly believe Police should have the right to withdraw labour and to have the balls to fight this onslaught of wholescale and hysterical abuse aimed at EVERY officer both present and retired.That means YOU,Keith. I know what sort of officer you were and you can check me out too. I take this personally,as we all should.
In short,Couzens deserves death and a slow one but to stain all officers aint right |
It’s an imperfect system, but there isn’t one which is better than it. Problem is none of us know if someone has normally committed eg a sex offence other than the people there.
In hindsight, re Preston. I should’ve texted you my seat number, would’ve been better than watching the game | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 20:52 - Oct 1 with 742 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 20:20 - Oct 1 by onehunglow |
Some police then.Not all?
That right?
How would Plaid police . ?
We are now seeing my point regarding public attitude to public and it's cowardice to back the bet option they have to fight crime.It aint perfect,it can never be.It never was and never will but these violent,untrustworthy scum are the ones between Good (that s us) and Evil "Scum criminals.
How would you catch major criminals Tramp ,say a serial violent burglar. How would you watch for him?In full uniform ?
I know this site is full of anti police but the naievity is staggering |
Tag the police so their movements are known in case they get up to no good.
Get a tough guy or gal in at the top of the police to bring in tough measures to stop any police corruption. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 20:57 - Oct 1 with 729 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 20:20 - Oct 1 by Catullus |
Well there are experts who deal with this kind of thing but I'd suggest plain clothes officers only travle in pairs on duty and off duty they cannot pull people over but can only eport them. then if another thing like this is tried the person will hopefully know to run like hell!
Then there's screening. The checks that are done (or are supposed to be done) must be made more stringent. Maybe regular psychological checks.
Do all police have to give a DNA sample? Maybe they should so they can be excluded from any investigation at the beginning?
I'm sure brighter people than I can make good suggestions. |
Some good points there Cat. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 21:14 - Oct 1 with 713 views | majorraglan |
| Sarah Everad on 20:20 - Oct 1 by Catullus |
Well there are experts who deal with this kind of thing but I'd suggest plain clothes officers only travle in pairs on duty and off duty they cannot pull people over but can only eport them. then if another thing like this is tried the person will hopefully know to run like hell!
Then there's screening. The checks that are done (or are supposed to be done) must be made more stringent. Maybe regular psychological checks.
Do all police have to give a DNA sample? Maybe they should so they can be excluded from any investigation at the beginning?
I'm sure brighter people than I can make good suggestions. |
Police recruiting is governed by guidance published by the Home Office / College of Policing and is quite comprehensive.
Applicants to the police and PCSO’s have to provide a sample of their DNA, Fingerprints which are checked against the National Data base, they are also Drug tested. Guy I work with is going through a PCSO recruiting process at the moment. The guidance would also cover previous convictions.
Not sure there’d be capacity to do the psychological profile, the people best placed to informed or flag up concerns would be the colleagues. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 21:21 - Oct 1 with 698 views | majorraglan |
| Sarah Everad on 20:44 - Oct 1 by Sirjohnalot |
Yes, I think the threshold is around £14,000. (Not been a solicitor for quite a few years so not filled one in for a while ) |
Thanks.
I seem to recall that Nigel Evans MP was accused of some impropriety a few years ago and that the case ended up in Crown Court and it cost him a fortune in legal fees, so much so that the Government were considering a review of the system on account the way it impacted on working people. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 21:22 - Oct 1 with 698 views | KeithHaynes |
| Sarah Everad on 20:47 - Oct 1 by trampie |
They infiltrate left wing groups, peace groups, animal rights groups and trick the women in those groups, interestingly they don't tend to infiltrate right wing groups but that is another story. |
They infiltrate all groups that present a threat to national security, to think otherwise is at best ill informed or politically motivated. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 21:37 - Oct 1 with 675 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 21:22 - Oct 1 by KeithHaynes |
They infiltrate all groups that present a threat to national security, to think otherwise is at best ill informed or politically motivated. |
That is not what has been reported some very dangerous right wing group have been ignored or barely looked at, in Northern Ireland (technically part of the UK - as a Welshman what a joke that is but that is a different story) some right wing groups and the police collaborated.
I think they think that the left present a danger to the governing elite as they might gain traction and mass appeal, the right on the other hand just being seen as nutters. | |
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