| Accounts 23:34 - Feb 11 with 19538 views | leedsdale |
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| Accounts on 15:45 - Feb 12 with 2515 views | pioneer |
If I had time on my hands I would..... but it would be nice if they could simply point out which bits are to be kept confidential, if they want shareholders to comply. |  | | |
| Accounts on 16:01 - Feb 12 with 2482 views | Ancoats_Blue |
| Accounts on 13:05 - Feb 12 by milnrowblue |
Looking at this whole situation, it’s clear that we need to invest in the future not only on the pitch but off it.
Finding a way to pull in fans as a club with a dense amount of other clubs around us is always going to be a tough ask.
Marketing our “product” to a younger audience is arguably the only way we’re going to sustainably pick up footfall through the gates over the coming years.
A fresh outlook is needed on how the club is marketed e.g. stylish kits, match day entertainment (barring BBM ball), online presence.
We may catch the odd local fans of elite teams who slip through the net if they ever become disenchanted by top tier football, but we also have to aim to be a fresh outfit which can attract youth, rather than a small, Northern club who are just plodding along between relegation and promotion.
We have our fans to who have been with us for years and will never leave, so it’s time to expand our reach and bring in the next generation, which will of course help with revenue. |
Rochdale has a population of ~110k and the borough a population of ~220k so there's plenty of scope to expand the fanbase even with the challenges of being so close to the likes of Manchester, Burnley and the constant TV coverage of the premier league.
Obviously a more successful team on the pitch = bums on seats. That's the hard bit and there's no guarantee we'll be entertaining to watch or successful (my definition of success is different to the next mans).
But, the club should be doing more to attract new fans. A lot of the stuff they've done in recent years is good. Cheap tickets for adults and kids, and work in the local schools for e.g. are commendable. So I won't knock any of that.
That said there are some really quick wins that would help the club move with the times. E-tickets. Incorporate data into a CRM. Segment the database and flog tickets to people. Chase people up to use their "bring a friends" vouchers if they haven't. Ask people why they haven't attended in XYZ days/weeks/months.
Run entry for a quid type promos at least once a season. Gather data, follow up on it.
Improve the match day experience. Real food. Real beer. Get local pubs/chippies/restaurants to run the catering. Get local brewers on board.
Bands on match day. Real bands and not some bloke singing oasis covers over a backing track.
Happy hours when we win (anyone been to the home end at Accy would know that goes down well).
Encourage atmosphere. As cringey as "ultras" groups can be no one can deny the groups of young lads waving flags drumming and singing at Accy, Fleetwood, Oldham improve the atmosphere no end. I'm fairly sure the respective clubs encouraged these groups to form.
In an ideal world if you were to start from scratch you'd not build a ground in the location of Spotland. It's a pain to get to, there's nothing much interesting around it. Barring the funds to build a new ground why don't the club explore shuttle buses from the town centre, borough centres or train stations to ferry people to the ground? Other clubs do this with good reason. Keep people drinking/eating etc where they want to be and get them up to the ground as easily and quickly as possible.
None of this is reinventing the wheel. Other clubs do it. We don't. [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 16:07]
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| Accounts on 16:08 - Feb 12 with 2452 views | 442Dale |
| Accounts on 15:35 - Feb 12 by pioneer |
Just received electronic version of shareholder copy which we are asked to keep confidential! Rationale is some of what shareholders receive is not in the version submitted to companies house but we are not told which bits.
Another concern is large reduction in development association income...I wont mention figures in case thats the confidential bit.
Need to get back on the straight and narrow. |
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2020/january/fansforumpostponement/
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2020/01/fans-forum-postponed/
<<“ The Fans Forum arranged for Monday 13th January has been postponed.
The club contacted the Trust earlier in the week to suggest that the Newcastle replay might require a postponement of the Forum. New dates were discussed and it was agreed by both parties that a date around the end of the month may be more appropriate as this would then allow the club to discuss the end of year accounts for the 2018-19 season giving a more transparent picture of the club in the process.”>>
So rearranging the forum would “...then allow the club to discuss the end of year accounts for the 2018-19 season giving a more transparent picture of the club in the process.”
We have been told next Monday there will be “a more transparent picture of the club”. There is no reason whatsoever why such commitments can’t be met. |  |
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| Accounts on 16:19 - Feb 12 with 2420 views | scarrow |
These are terrible figures but - this season has seen a smaller budget I'm led to believe and an increase in cup revenue plus the sales of Matheson and Adshead and income from Dawson so financially it's a lot more stable.
Paying off Hill and Beech was always going to be a massive dent on the figures. |  |
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| Accounts on 16:21 - Feb 12 with 2416 views | fermin |
| Accounts on 15:45 - Feb 12 by pioneer |
If I had time on my hands I would..... but it would be nice if they could simply point out which bits are to be kept confidential, if they want shareholders to comply. |
The last three pages are not on the Companies House version - I notice this because these are the pages I find most understandable. I am not sure if there are any differences further up. It is difficult to compare these P&L figures in details with previous years as they appear to have changed the categories (eg split on wages). [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 16:24]
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| Accounts on 17:25 - Feb 12 with 2308 views | milnrowblue |
| Accounts on 16:01 - Feb 12 by Ancoats_Blue |
Rochdale has a population of ~110k and the borough a population of ~220k so there's plenty of scope to expand the fanbase even with the challenges of being so close to the likes of Manchester, Burnley and the constant TV coverage of the premier league.
Obviously a more successful team on the pitch = bums on seats. That's the hard bit and there's no guarantee we'll be entertaining to watch or successful (my definition of success is different to the next mans).
But, the club should be doing more to attract new fans. A lot of the stuff they've done in recent years is good. Cheap tickets for adults and kids, and work in the local schools for e.g. are commendable. So I won't knock any of that.
That said there are some really quick wins that would help the club move with the times. E-tickets. Incorporate data into a CRM. Segment the database and flog tickets to people. Chase people up to use their "bring a friends" vouchers if they haven't. Ask people why they haven't attended in XYZ days/weeks/months.
Run entry for a quid type promos at least once a season. Gather data, follow up on it.
Improve the match day experience. Real food. Real beer. Get local pubs/chippies/restaurants to run the catering. Get local brewers on board.
Bands on match day. Real bands and not some bloke singing oasis covers over a backing track.
Happy hours when we win (anyone been to the home end at Accy would know that goes down well).
Encourage atmosphere. As cringey as "ultras" groups can be no one can deny the groups of young lads waving flags drumming and singing at Accy, Fleetwood, Oldham improve the atmosphere no end. I'm fairly sure the respective clubs encouraged these groups to form.
In an ideal world if you were to start from scratch you'd not build a ground in the location of Spotland. It's a pain to get to, there's nothing much interesting around it. Barring the funds to build a new ground why don't the club explore shuttle buses from the town centre, borough centres or train stations to ferry people to the ground? Other clubs do this with good reason. Keep people drinking/eating etc where they want to be and get them up to the ground as easily and quickly as possible.
None of this is reinventing the wheel. Other clubs do it. We don't. [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 16:07]
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Exactly my point. There are so many simple things that the club can be doing to attract a new crowd of Dale fans.
All you’ve mentioned are easily done and cost little to nothing to get going.
It’s not just us, but a lot of lower league clubs are selling a structured product that is outdated, pushing fans around their respective areas to bigger clubs who show an interest in them rather than the same stagnant stuff year in, year out.
I have no qualms with our marketing team as we don’t know who is ultimately the judge on all these decisions, and I like to think they have the same ideas as us.
What I do know is that if we don’t begin to implement new ideas into the club soon to get new fans through the door, we’ll just keep falling even further behind. | | | |
| Accounts on 17:35 - Feb 12 with 2276 views | judd |
| Accounts on 16:19 - Feb 12 by scarrow |
These are terrible figures but - this season has seen a smaller budget I'm led to believe and an increase in cup revenue plus the sales of Matheson and Adshead and income from Dawson so financially it's a lot more stable.
Paying off Hill and Beech was always going to be a massive dent on the figures. |
Interesting thought that the year could have been panning out as usual financially until the management team was sacked? |  |
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| Accounts on 18:29 - Feb 12 with 2171 views | Dorislove |
| Accounts on 17:35 - Feb 12 by judd |
Interesting thought that the year could have been panning out as usual financially until the management team was sacked? |
If so why sack them ,get them to work under the new budget after CD was removed. |  | | |
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| Accounts on 18:41 - Feb 12 with 2144 views | Ninco |
| Accounts on 17:25 - Feb 12 by milnrowblue |
Exactly my point. There are so many simple things that the club can be doing to attract a new crowd of Dale fans.
All you’ve mentioned are easily done and cost little to nothing to get going.
It’s not just us, but a lot of lower league clubs are selling a structured product that is outdated, pushing fans around their respective areas to bigger clubs who show an interest in them rather than the same stagnant stuff year in, year out.
I have no qualms with our marketing team as we don’t know who is ultimately the judge on all these decisions, and I like to think they have the same ideas as us.
What I do know is that if we don’t begin to implement new ideas into the club soon to get new fans through the door, we’ll just keep falling even further behind. |
To be fair, they did that kid for a quid day a few weeks ago, and I didn't notice any increase in attendance. It probably lost the club money because the kids who already go would have paid less. It must be soul destroying for the club when they put these things on and nobody bothers. They can't force people in.
For me, the only way they can sell the club is to play good entertaining successful football. If people see exciting stuff on the TV highlights or hear how good it was from someone who went, they are more likely to want to go themselves. | | | |
| Accounts on 18:51 - Feb 12 with 2124 views | dale81 |
| Accounts on 17:25 - Feb 12 by milnrowblue |
Exactly my point. There are so many simple things that the club can be doing to attract a new crowd of Dale fans.
All you’ve mentioned are easily done and cost little to nothing to get going.
It’s not just us, but a lot of lower league clubs are selling a structured product that is outdated, pushing fans around their respective areas to bigger clubs who show an interest in them rather than the same stagnant stuff year in, year out.
I have no qualms with our marketing team as we don’t know who is ultimately the judge on all these decisions, and I like to think they have the same ideas as us.
What I do know is that if we don’t begin to implement new ideas into the club soon to get new fans through the door, we’ll just keep falling even further behind. |
To be fair to the marketing team, I think they've really stepped up online this season on social media with graphic and video content.
Just need to continue trying to progress even more to the next level. | | | |
| Accounts on 19:38 - Feb 12 with 2036 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Accounts on 12:07 - Feb 12 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
Although the latest set of accounts are a concern I doubt that there is a single club in lg1 or 2 that is making a profit, mainly due to spiralling wages that wouldn’t be acceptable in any other industry for what is generally a bang average product.
Having said that certain questions need to be asked.
Does the board accept that the club will continue to make a loss for the foreseeable future?
If so, is the board able or willing to underwrite these losses?
If not, does the board expect the club to be self financing & what are it’s plans to achieve this?
One thing that does puzzle me is the drop in TV revenue, can anyone enlighten me as to what the basic payment from the EFL to league 1 clubs is per season? |
If rumours are true we’ve been paying a centre forward who hasn’t scored for over a year and over two years at the COA £104k a year.
There is nothing astute, prudent or remotely sensible about that.
The club used to be renowned for its prudence, to the point of almost being cruel. I’m thinking Cavanagh (after captaining the side to promotion n’all).
Something changed under Hill. If you were with him you were rewarded. [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 20:03]
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| Accounts on 19:41 - Feb 12 with 2025 views | 49thseason |
| Accounts on 18:41 - Feb 12 by Ninco |
To be fair, they did that kid for a quid day a few weeks ago, and I didn't notice any increase in attendance. It probably lost the club money because the kids who already go would have paid less. It must be soul destroying for the club when they put these things on and nobody bothers. They can't force people in.
For me, the only way they can sell the club is to play good entertaining successful football. If people see exciting stuff on the TV highlights or hear how good it was from someone who went, they are more likely to want to go themselves. |
They could do a dad and lad or lass season ticket into the Sandy for £ 200 limited to say 300 . I took my lad in there when he was 7 or 8 as he could run around a bit if he got bored, much better than sitting down
The Sandy should be the gateway into watching Rochdale, so tinpot trophy games should all be £5 for dad and lads with 1000 tickets, given to Secondary schools a couple of weeks before each game. The pester power alone would sell most of them. |  | | |
| Accounts on 20:12 - Feb 12 with 1935 views | James1980 |
As has been often mentioned, the pitch MUST be sorted out.
How many fans who go on a game by game basis won't be buying a ticket for Saturday because they think it will be called off. Then won't go on Saturday and pay on the gate because they have made other arrangements.
Perhaps change the catchment area for the country season ticket so people closer can purchase one.
I think a link with TFGM to provide free travel on matchdays is worth looking into | |
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| Accounts on 20:24 - Feb 12 with 1899 views | Zac_B |
| Accounts on 18:41 - Feb 12 by Ninco |
To be fair, they did that kid for a quid day a few weeks ago, and I didn't notice any increase in attendance. It probably lost the club money because the kids who already go would have paid less. It must be soul destroying for the club when they put these things on and nobody bothers. They can't force people in.
For me, the only way they can sell the club is to play good entertaining successful football. If people see exciting stuff on the TV highlights or hear how good it was from someone who went, they are more likely to want to go themselves. |
Sadly, I'm not sure many kids are likely to drag themselves away from Instagram/Snapchat/Facebook for long enough to sit in a football ground for two hours - whether that's for £20, £1 or for free | | | |
| Accounts on 20:27 - Feb 12 with 1894 views | Cleedale |
| Accounts on 12:07 - Feb 12 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
Although the latest set of accounts are a concern I doubt that there is a single club in lg1 or 2 that is making a profit, mainly due to spiralling wages that wouldn’t be acceptable in any other industry for what is generally a bang average product.
Having said that certain questions need to be asked.
Does the board accept that the club will continue to make a loss for the foreseeable future?
If so, is the board able or willing to underwrite these losses?
If not, does the board expect the club to be self financing & what are it’s plans to achieve this?
One thing that does puzzle me is the drop in TV revenue, can anyone enlighten me as to what the basic payment from the EFL to league 1 clubs is per season? |
Re-your last question Platty here's some 'slightly' out-of-date figures as the amounts have (I think) increased since then. These figures were for each year and I believe were for a 3 season period that ended 2018/19? Btw., this is just copied from an EFL email from them in reply to similar questions. Also, think there is the (circa) £180,000 youth payment on top of this for each year. The total for each club in L1 is around the £1.5m mark :-
"In terms of overall financial distributions, all League clubs receive a share of what is called 'basic award' which encompasses broadcasting revenue, which for the current 16/17 season is as follows:
Basic Award (per club - '000)
Championship - 2,034m
League 1 - 702k
League 2 - 472k
Each club receives the same amount. There are no ladder payments depending on where clubs finish. However in addition, the EFL and Premier League have a separate agreement with regards to solidarity payments. Currently all clubs in the EFL therefore also receive a share of the solidarity money as follows:
Solidarity (per club - '000)
Championship - 4.3m
League 1 - 645k
League 2 - 430k | | | |
| Accounts on 21:01 - Feb 12 with 1826 views | judd |
| Accounts on 15:35 - Feb 12 by pioneer |
Just received electronic version of shareholder copy which we are asked to keep confidential! Rationale is some of what shareholders receive is not in the version submitted to companies house but we are not told which bits.
Another concern is large reduction in development association income...I wont mention figures in case thats the confidential bit.
Need to get back on the straight and narrow. |
As fermin points out, the pages not submitted as part of statutory accounts are clearly identified at the bottom of the last 3 pages.
Edited with a MASSIVE apology to fermin. Thanks to TVOS for RATTING [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 21:13]
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| Accounts on 21:06 - Feb 12 with 1820 views | TVOS1907 |
| Accounts on 21:01 - Feb 12 by judd |
As fermin points out, the pages not submitted as part of statutory accounts are clearly identified at the bottom of the last 3 pages.
Edited with a MASSIVE apology to fermin. Thanks to TVOS for RATTING [Post edited 12 Feb 2020 21:13]
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Bit harsh calling him vermin... |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Accounts on 21:13 - Feb 12 with 1787 views | judd |
| Accounts on 21:06 - Feb 12 by TVOS1907 |
Bit harsh calling him vermin... |
Cheers TVOS. Edited | |
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| Accounts on 21:14 - Feb 12 with 1788 views | fitzochris |
| Accounts on 21:13 - Feb 12 by judd |
Cheers TVOS. Edited |
Rats. |  |
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| Accounts on 21:20 - Feb 12 with 1769 views | TVOS1907 |
Vassily? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Accounts on 21:24 - Feb 12 with 1752 views | judd |
| Accounts on 21:20 - Feb 12 by TVOS1907 |
Vassily? |
Blimey | |
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| Accounts on 21:27 - Feb 12 with 1746 views | fitzochris |
| Accounts on 21:20 - Feb 12 by TVOS1907 |
Vassily? |
Petroleum jelly? | |
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| Accounts on 21:33 - Feb 12 with 1715 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| Accounts on 20:27 - Feb 12 by Cleedale |
Re-your last question Platty here's some 'slightly' out-of-date figures as the amounts have (I think) increased since then. These figures were for each year and I believe were for a 3 season period that ended 2018/19? Btw., this is just copied from an EFL email from them in reply to similar questions. Also, think there is the (circa) £180,000 youth payment on top of this for each year. The total for each club in L1 is around the £1.5m mark :-
"In terms of overall financial distributions, all League clubs receive a share of what is called 'basic award' which encompasses broadcasting revenue, which for the current 16/17 season is as follows:
Basic Award (per club - '000)
Championship - 2,034m
League 1 - 702k
League 2 - 472k
Each club receives the same amount. There are no ladder payments depending on where clubs finish. However in addition, the EFL and Premier League have a separate agreement with regards to solidarity payments. Currently all clubs in the EFL therefore also receive a share of the solidarity money as follows:
Solidarity (per club - '000)
Championship - 4.3m
League 1 - 645k
League 2 - 430k |
Cheers for the info Clee. |  | | |
| Accounts on 22:09 - Feb 12 with 1642 views | 49thseason |
There are hundreds, probaby thousands of kids playing for junior teams on Saturday mornings. I know we do group deals with different teams at some home games, but lots more need to have the opportunity to attend regularly and get the bug. | | | |
| Accounts on 22:13 - Feb 12 with 1628 views | judd |
| Accounts on 22:09 - Feb 12 by 49thseason |
There are hundreds, probaby thousands of kids playing for junior teams on Saturday mornings. I know we do group deals with different teams at some home games, but lots more need to have the opportunity to attend regularly and get the bug. |
Or bring back those who have been before. When we did it parents paid a fee to enter the ground. Filling up empty spaces. | |
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