| The financial cost of relegation 17:46 - Dec 30 with 15807 views | dawlishdale |
I am wondering just how much it will cost us if we drop down to L2 from a financial point of view, and have done some rough figures, which may or may not be accurate, but they are my best guess.
These figures are for a full season.
Loss of TV money £200,000
Loss of away fan income £250-300k
Loss of sponsorship / hospitality programme/kit sales £50k
Loss of home support £200,000
I know that these are rough figures, but they represent around £750k in terms of reduced income should we go down.
And yet the Directors tell us that we currently have no money to improve the squad, which suggests to me that we are currently running at a big annual loss, propped up by the Hogan/Allen transfer fees.
I'd suggest we cannot afford NOT to bring in a couple of players in January, and hopefully shifting out or paying off some of the deadwood.
It's a calculated gamble, but one that imho, we can't really afford not to take.
Discuss... |  | | |  |
| The financial cost of relegation on 17:50 - Dec 30 with 9708 views | TVOS1907 |
Apparently, last night the manager said we didn't have any money to spend, yet in today's Observer he says there is some to spend!
Out of your rough figures, it's the loss of away fan income that is the most worrying for me, as that's outwith our control. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 17:52 - Dec 30 with 9708 views | 442Dale |
Where has it been said we have no money to improve the squad? |  |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 17:53 - Dec 30 with 9702 views | electricblue |
"And yet the Directors tell us that we currently have no money to improve the squad, which suggests to me that we are currently running at a big annual loss, propped up by the Hogan/Allen transfer fees. "
When did the directors say that there is no money !
Also if it is correct what they say then where as all that money gone because lack of proper squad investment the past two seasons is showing as the league table position isnt lying..... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 18:30 - Dec 30 with 9626 views | 1mark1 |
There might not be a reduction in home support, if we were winning more games. Any increase in match day attendance might well mean refreshment sales being better, for the home ends.
Obviously though the away support would be a lot less, which in turn effects the refreshments sold.
So as well as overall attendances being down, refreshment sales would take a hit. |  |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 18:36 - Dec 30 with 9600 views | RAFCBLUE |
| The financial cost of relegation on 17:50 - Dec 30 by TVOS1907 |
Apparently, last night the manager said we didn't have any money to spend, yet in today's Observer he says there is some to spend!
Out of your rough figures, it's the loss of away fan income that is the most worrying for me, as that's outwith our control. |
I'd imagine our playing down of finances is to keep teams guessing of our financial capability where we are trying to make signings.
However, the way Hogan's Villa move is turning out and Allen's start at Burton may have reduced some of the bullishness around what money might come our way.
That said, Dawson could move from WBA in January. That would be an unexpected positive.
For away fan reductions, I think the club has to get a bit more active in marketing the club to home supporters. Away fans must aggregate at around 16,000 - 18,000 ticket sales over 23 league games.
That's only 700-800 additional home supporters to be targeted, which did often come with the more successful L2 campaigns.
Planning for L2 is defeatist currently IMO but some serious positive actions need to come out of the club to address the current slide.
Attacking goalscoring football would help! |  |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 19:59 - Dec 30 with 9450 views | BlueMessiah |
Not sure how accurate the figures are but however much it turns out to be that would be the loss for each season we spend back in L2 - which could be more than one.
I know there are those who are sure Hill would bring us back to L1 immediately should he take us down but I wouldn't be quite so sure. This is very much uncharted territory for Hill and he's not coping with it at all well.
A bit of astute investment over the next month or so could save us a huge amount in the long run. We simply must take the gamble! |  |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 20:08 - Dec 30 with 9426 views | Daley_Lama |
If there is no money after the Hogan windfall and the sale of Jamie Allen then i want Owen Oyston out of our club right now! |  |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 20:30 - Dec 30 with 9361 views | D_Alien |
Finances within the club may well be predicated on the assumption that KH will produce a saleable asset most years, and that's not a bad assumption given past performance. Can't think of anyone currently in the first team squad who might attract a bid in the near future, although there's been mention of a promising youngster
If the worst comes to the worst, it's to be hoped the contracts (including the manager's) have clauses which reduce the salaries following relegation, to mitigate against loss of income. At the very least, that should help to concentrate player's minds
Anyone know if that's the case? |  |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 20:39 - Dec 30 with 9332 views | kiwidale |
| The financial cost of relegation on 19:59 - Dec 30 by BlueMessiah |
Not sure how accurate the figures are but however much it turns out to be that would be the loss for each season we spend back in L2 - which could be more than one.
I know there are those who are sure Hill would bring us back to L1 immediately should he take us down but I wouldn't be quite so sure. This is very much uncharted territory for Hill and he's not coping with it at all well.
A bit of astute investment over the next month or so could save us a huge amount in the long run. We simply must take the gamble! |
I made the comment on another thread that I had more faith in Hill getting another promotion should we be relegated which is looking more and more likely than him keeping this team up, but as you point out another promotion at first attempt is by no means certain. I'm amazed if lack of money is an issue surely we are in a better financial position than ever before? I don't subscribe to the planned relegation theory however I do believe that a plan is already being discussed should it happen. Its my opinion that the club is in a stick or twist situation a little tweaking will not fix things. Now is not the time to look for rabbits in hats it will take more than a few bob to recruit the right caliber of player. Whether Dumphy and the board will sanction a splash the cash rescue strategy and gamble is, given past history unlikely however flush we are. I believe we will recruit but at bargain basement level, I hope I'm wrong but although not resigned to it I'm now half expecting relegation. [Post edited 30 Dec 2017 20:51]
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| The financial cost of relegation on 21:35 - Dec 30 with 9219 views | Dalenet |
The whole situation is a worry. We are not well supported despite the efforts during the summer and we find that up to 20% of season ticket holders don't even come to games. If we are relegated we will lose a great deal of income. Would we repeat the season ticket exercise we tried last summer - I suspect not. We couldn't afford it. And there is a risk that attendances will fall again. I don't want to over exaggerate but I would worry whether we could survive more than a few seasons in League Two. We wouldn't be able to cut our cloth quickly enough and we don't have a sugar daddy to help. How would we cover the costs with such a fall in income. Would it be the beginning of the end? I think it would. Sorry.
So we need to hope that Hill turns it around and that we sign some new blood. We need to put up a fight, start scoring and get fans to turn up. At the moment I would just be happy with 5th from bottom and then we can bowl again next season. | | | |
| The financial cost of relegation on 21:36 - Dec 30 with 9217 views | nordenblue |
| The financial cost of relegation on 20:30 - Dec 30 by D_Alien |
Finances within the club may well be predicated on the assumption that KH will produce a saleable asset most years, and that's not a bad assumption given past performance. Can't think of anyone currently in the first team squad who might attract a bid in the near future, although there's been mention of a promising youngster
If the worst comes to the worst, it's to be hoped the contracts (including the manager's) have clauses which reduce the salaries following relegation, to mitigate against loss of income. At the very least, that should help to concentrate player's minds
Anyone know if that's the case? |
Calum Camps is "allegedly"more than just a Jan transfer target..... | | | |
| The financial cost of relegation on 21:50 - Dec 30 with 9186 views | 442Dale |
Again, where do these rumours come from?
Same as incoming rumours, it does nobody involved with a football club any favours. | |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 21:51 - Dec 30 with 9177 views | TVOS1907 |
| The financial cost of relegation on 21:36 - Dec 30 by nordenblue |
Calum Camps is "allegedly"more than just a Jan transfer target..... |
What do you mean? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 21:54 - Dec 30 with 9165 views | RAFCBLUE |
| The financial cost of relegation on 21:36 - Dec 30 by nordenblue |
Calum Camps is "allegedly"more than just a Jan transfer target..... |
I can only speak for myself but if there is a sale of a Camps or McGahey in this transfer window that would signal the clear split of League 1 aspiration vs actual "build a team" behaviour.
I'm all for cashing in at the right time, we are a selling club, but with the late choice to sell Allen for a too good to turn down fee it would be too much.
The season's slogan is "Winning Together" - not "Relegated whilst selling the family silver"
We need to be net adding to squad quality and depth in this transfer window. | |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 22:00 - Dec 30 with 9144 views | D_Alien |
| The financial cost of relegation on 21:35 - Dec 30 by Dalenet |
The whole situation is a worry. We are not well supported despite the efforts during the summer and we find that up to 20% of season ticket holders don't even come to games. If we are relegated we will lose a great deal of income. Would we repeat the season ticket exercise we tried last summer - I suspect not. We couldn't afford it. And there is a risk that attendances will fall again. I don't want to over exaggerate but I would worry whether we could survive more than a few seasons in League Two. We wouldn't be able to cut our cloth quickly enough and we don't have a sugar daddy to help. How would we cover the costs with such a fall in income. Would it be the beginning of the end? I think it would. Sorry.
So we need to hope that Hill turns it around and that we sign some new blood. We need to put up a fight, start scoring and get fans to turn up. At the moment I would just be happy with 5th from bottom and then we can bowl again next season. |
Can understand the concern, but at some stage we're going to find ourselves back in L2, so it's to be hoped the board have made contingency plans - i'd be very surprised if that wasn't the case. Maybe it's why there's "no money" available - it's been put away for a rainy day (yes, yes, i know, not spending can sometimes bring the rainy day forward etc.)
Wasn't going to mention this, but KH has already referred to a "planned relegation" - at the fans forum, in response to a question I raised about survival in the championship, should that occur. Sensible enough; but if the club can plan for a season in the championship which leads to relegation, it'd be very remiss of them not to have plans in place for relegation from L1 | |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 22:22 - Dec 30 with 9086 views | kiwidale |
| The financial cost of relegation on 22:00 - Dec 30 by D_Alien |
Can understand the concern, but at some stage we're going to find ourselves back in L2, so it's to be hoped the board have made contingency plans - i'd be very surprised if that wasn't the case. Maybe it's why there's "no money" available - it's been put away for a rainy day (yes, yes, i know, not spending can sometimes bring the rainy day forward etc.)
Wasn't going to mention this, but KH has already referred to a "planned relegation" - at the fans forum, in response to a question I raised about survival in the championship, should that occur. Sensible enough; but if the club can plan for a season in the championship which leads to relegation, it'd be very remiss of them not to have plans in place for relegation from L1 |
I can only agree with that hence my opinion Dumphy will not gamble. The last thing we need is (new) players on championship wages playing in div2. Bury is not the way to go so its stick or twist? for what its worth I would stick and hope with a couple of astute loan additions we have enough to survive. [Post edited 30 Dec 2017 22:25]
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| The financial cost of relegation on 23:52 - Dec 30 with 8975 views | DiddyDave |
Come on fellas,there`s another half a season to go yet. Ok,things aren`t exactly rosy at the moment,but nothing that a few goals won`t fix over the next few weeks. This time last year we fell in a heap,but what`s to say the reversal won`t happen this year starting with a win over Blackpool tomorrow. Keep the faith,it has to work because the club sure can`t afford to ship KH out. | | | |
| The financial cost of relegation on 09:35 - Dec 31 with 8761 views | NorthernDale |
Whats is worse is that instead of watching the Boltons, Sheffied Utd, Blackburns and Bradfords of this world, we will be back entertaining the Barnets and Crawleys of this world, and I mean no disrespect to these teams, but would you rather see away fans bringing thousands of fans and making the atmosphere better or teams who will bring a few hundred at best.
If we go down and it is looking that way, we could potentially miss out on Sunderland, Birmingham and Bolton, depending on who may come down next season.
The financial implications of such reductions is obvious to me and should be to the board as well. | | | |
| The financial cost of relegation on 09:37 - Dec 31 with 8757 views | RAFCBLUE |
| The financial cost of relegation on 22:22 - Dec 30 by kiwidale |
I can only agree with that hence my opinion Dumphy will not gamble. The last thing we need is (new) players on championship wages playing in div2. Bury is not the way to go so its stick or twist? for what its worth I would stick and hope with a couple of astute loan additions we have enough to survive. [Post edited 30 Dec 2017 22:25]
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Isn't the objective of this transfer window the same, regardless of what league we may believe we will be in with 22 games to play, being build a squad capable of being able to compete in League 1?
That's simply to identify and recruit undervalued players faster and more effectively than our competitors.
Brentford are the best performer here IMO over the last five years. Here's what their Head of Recruitment job looks like:
https://www.brentfordfc.com/siteassets/documents/brentford-fc---head-of-recruitm
Who at Rochdale is responsible for these activities? | |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 10:10 - Dec 31 with 8677 views | fitzochris |
| The financial cost of relegation on 17:52 - Dec 30 by 442Dale |
Where has it been said we have no money to improve the squad? |
I think it came from a Keith Hill interview. |  |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 10:24 - Dec 31 with 8636 views | TVOS1907 |
| The financial cost of relegation on 09:35 - Dec 31 by NorthernDale |
Whats is worse is that instead of watching the Boltons, Sheffied Utd, Blackburns and Bradfords of this world, we will be back entertaining the Barnets and Crawleys of this world, and I mean no disrespect to these teams, but would you rather see away fans bringing thousands of fans and making the atmosphere better or teams who will bring a few hundred at best.
If we go down and it is looking that way, we could potentially miss out on Sunderland, Birmingham and Bolton, depending on who may come down next season.
The financial implications of such reductions is obvious to me and should be to the board as well. |
I’m sure it will be. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 10:26 - Dec 31 with 8630 views | TVOS1907 |
| The financial cost of relegation on 10:10 - Dec 31 by fitzochris |
I think it came from a Keith Hill interview. |
And yet, in yesterday’s Ob, he says there is a bit of money to spend.
Which one is it? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 10:30 - Dec 31 with 8622 views | fitzochris |
| The financial cost of relegation on 10:26 - Dec 31 by TVOS1907 |
And yet, in yesterday’s Ob, he says there is a bit of money to spend.
Which one is it? |
I would love to know (and obviously would prefer the Ob’s version). | |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 10:44 - Dec 31 with 8586 views | 442Dale |
At Christmas last year when all was going well there was a festive message from the chairman. https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2016/december/the-chairmans-christmas-message
While there's no need for the board to comment specifically on the team's current run, where was such a message this year to illustrate to supporters that we can review the bad years in a positive manner too?
Apologies if I missed it or if there's something about to appear later today as we see the year out. | |
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| The financial cost of relegation on 11:13 - Dec 31 with 8521 views | DaleiLama |
| The financial cost of relegation on 10:44 - Dec 31 by 442Dale |
At Christmas last year when all was going well there was a festive message from the chairman. https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2016/december/the-chairmans-christmas-message
While there's no need for the board to comment specifically on the team's current run, where was such a message this year to illustrate to supporters that we can review the bad years in a positive manner too?
Apologies if I missed it or if there's something about to appear later today as we see the year out. |
Such a message would surely have us at a crossroads? Or maybe reenacting an episode of Crossroads? It is a stark reminder of "what a difference a year makes". We are still in the cup (just) but there the similarities end.
I suspect there won't be a message regarding the path we want to steer as we have veered too far from it without an apparent plan to get back on it. I hope I am proven wrong.
I have not given up on this season yet though. We need a massive shot of confidence from somewhere, and I don't see where that's coming from. It won't be from words either. Deeds are what's required for the rest of the season. [Post edited 31 Dec 2017 11:15]
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