| Gylfi 15:33 - Aug 4 with 86549 views | Darran |
He's off. |  |
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| Gylfi on 01:03 - Aug 9 with 2889 views | Nirvana |
| Gylfi on 00:41 - Aug 9 by Kerouac |
- We have been taken the piss out of before while our peers (such as Southampton) have managed to sell for top dollar.
- That situation would continue indefinitely unless we make a stand and say no to below market offers
- Spurs have just sold a right-back that they had already replaced for £50m FFS! Siggy earns a team, any team he plays for (with the set pieces alone), more points than Kyle Naughton...Jesus Christ, he is desired by Everton to replace Ross Barkley (who is also going for around £50m
- We set the price early doors and we have stuck to it
- In my opinion Siggy and his agent then tried to create a situation whereby we dropped our price (by refusing to go on tour), his motive being to curry favour with Everton and get some more wedge in his backpocket when he signs.
- We cannot allow our players to believe that it is they or their agent who decides whether we have received a fair offer, that is Swansea City's decision and we must protect our interests.
- We cannot allow our competitors to perceive us as a soft touch any longer...if our players are good enough for the top clubs (Sinclair, Allen, Vorm, Davies, Bony, Ash...Siggy, Llorente, Mawson) then WE are good enough to be paid the same prices that these clubs pay every other club when they go shopping.
- I said we would get £50m eventually and it would seem that way too me right now...there is a lot of old bollocks written on here about the business and the money.
In business, when it comes to doing a deal, you need a pair of bollocks and a cool head.
- Many have tried to make out that Everton are in the driving seat, that it is they who will set the price and the date of this transfer...last day of the window etc.
I don't think so. I believe the Americans will not budge on the price and I believe that if Everton don't come up with the money this week Siggy won't be leaving at all.
I'm fine with that. It will have been made clear to other clubs, Siggy and the rest of our players that we are not to be f*cked with.
What I am frustrated with is this idea that we don't have any money to spend without the sale of Siggy and the lack of action to address the squad depth.
If, IF, Clement wants Yiadom from Barnsley, why can't he sign him?
If, IF, we were interested in signing Chalobah why aren't we making an effort to bring in another midfielder.
If, IF, we were sweet talking John Terry to come and be a very expensive, 'Daz slow', substitute...why haven't we brought in central defensive cover yet?
Badstuber? FFS!
Our wingers are clearly shite. Why don't we move a couple on and get in someone young and hungry on loan?
I am not buying the argument that we don't have any money. That argument doesn't stack up. |
Very good post, Kerouac.
I don't know whether the Siggy agent and all that is true or not, but everything else is spot on.
There are three options only:
1) Everton pay £50m and Siggy is sold
2) Everton refuse and Siggy stays
3) Siggy puts in a transfer request
Selling our best player at a discount, simply because of some hypothetical players we COULD get, is lunacy. There is no guarantee any of them would be up to the task of keeping us up. We get two duds, we struggle, Clement leaves, and we're in the Championship. Siggy is proven quality and that won't change next season. Stick with him and we're pretty much secure.
Regarding spending outside of the Siggy sale, it doesn't make sense to me either. There's got to be enough money lying around for an upgrade at fullback and winger, at least. Maybe PC has his targets and he won't accept anyone not on his list. I don't know. Something's amiss, though.
If we keep Siggy/Llorente I'll be happy, but we could've and should've added a few more pieces. Plenty of time left still, so we'll see. |  | | |
| Gylfi on 01:16 - Aug 9 with 2857 views | E20Jack |
Until people can look at the accounts and find this mystical money then it is pie in the sky. There doesnt HAVE to be money lying around just because we are in the Premier league, and this notion is why people cannot grasp the financial side of the transfer market.
There is risk in everything. Siggy may have a bad season, he may get an injury, he may decide he doesnt want to put effort in, we may get relegated as a result (our worst seasons have come with him in the side). However keeping him only guarantees we will be without him and any of his money to replace him with in a few short seasons time.
Which of course is footballing and financial suicide. [Post edited 9 Aug 2017 1:17]
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| Gylfi on 01:16 - Aug 9 with 2856 views | Kerouac |
| Gylfi on 00:52 - Aug 9 by E20Jack |
So where is this money coming from then?
The accounts are there for all to see. Over the last 7 years we have spend on average 300k per season on players (net). But that doesn't take into consideration agents fees and signing on fees. So we have made a loss on transfers in and out.
Say Siggy leaves in 3 years and runs his contract down. We want to spend an amount of money to keep us progressing (£20m?) so where does this surpluss come from? |
Firstly, if we really don't have any money when we have been one of the few clubs to consistently make a profit every year, starting off with a lower wage bill than everyone else in the league and with tons of Sky cash coming through the door every season...then the people in charge have really made a pigs ear of it, and there is plenty of evidence to support that view;
- Not getting top dollar in terms of star player sales
- failing to get serious transfer fees for proven Premier League performers (see Chico)
- Paying off managers and their coaching staff every 2 minutes (all started with Laudrup...why oh why oh why oh why couldn't some of you have any fecking patience. Believe you me, that period was the start of our decline.
- Bringing shite like Gomis and Tabannou in and then paying them off at the end of their time here
- Baston FFS!
- Handing out long, well paid contracts to back up players who haven't earned them and who aren't good enough to contribute at this level.
- Handing out contracts to our favourite old players...FFS! This is supposed to be business. Be ruthless.
However, we have already vastly reduced the wage bill this season from last and are a few mill up on the transfer market.
For that reason alone we should be able to fund the purchase of a £5-10m player...and we should be able to do that and rest easy on the facts that there is plenty more deadwood to shift and the golden goose transfer, in the guise of Siggy, in the pipeline.
...and on Siggy, I agree that it is prudent to sell 1 star player at the top of their transfer value every year or so and replace with the younger version.
I have never denied that this model is sensible for a club our size...and I hope to see Siggy go for £50m.
I am just not having that the entirety of our transfer business should hinge on the sale of said star player.
We should be wheeling and dealing.
In this window alone there has been firm interest for Bartley and Montero.
In the previous window we could have got a decent transfer fee for Ki.
These are all bit part players that we could have replaced with potential. |  |
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| Gylfi on 01:16 - Aug 9 with 2856 views | dameedna |
The one fly in the ointment is that as we have not done much transfer business Everton know they are disrupting our plans.
Trotted out many a timebut we do have 6 or 7 new players and Siggy and Llorente are still here.
Take away the disruption and frustration causedby the Siggy and Llorente show and we would be in a good position having signed Mesa, Abs, Carroll, Ayew, Olsson, Narsingh and lost Cork, Baston and Gomis.
We are potentially going to struggle without Siggy and Llorente but it will be a good first month to see how we fare with a new more fliud line up.
For example Fer, Carroll, Ayew, Abraham and Routledge have looked sensational in my opinion and I would be starting them even if Siggy stays. |  | | |
| Gylfi on 01:27 - Aug 9 with 2829 views | E20Jack |
| Gylfi on 01:16 - Aug 9 by Kerouac |
Firstly, if we really don't have any money when we have been one of the few clubs to consistently make a profit every year, starting off with a lower wage bill than everyone else in the league and with tons of Sky cash coming through the door every season...then the people in charge have really made a pigs ear of it, and there is plenty of evidence to support that view;
- Not getting top dollar in terms of star player sales
- failing to get serious transfer fees for proven Premier League performers (see Chico)
- Paying off managers and their coaching staff every 2 minutes (all started with Laudrup...why oh why oh why oh why couldn't some of you have any fecking patience. Believe you me, that period was the start of our decline.
- Bringing shite like Gomis and Tabannou in and then paying them off at the end of their time here
- Baston FFS!
- Handing out long, well paid contracts to back up players who haven't earned them and who aren't good enough to contribute at this level.
- Handing out contracts to our favourite old players...FFS! This is supposed to be business. Be ruthless.
However, we have already vastly reduced the wage bill this season from last and are a few mill up on the transfer market.
For that reason alone we should be able to fund the purchase of a £5-10m player...and we should be able to do that and rest easy on the facts that there is plenty more deadwood to shift and the golden goose transfer, in the guise of Siggy, in the pipeline.
...and on Siggy, I agree that it is prudent to sell 1 star player at the top of their transfer value every year or so and replace with the younger version.
I have never denied that this model is sensible for a club our size...and I hope to see Siggy go for £50m.
I am just not having that the entirety of our transfer business should hinge on the sale of said star player.
We should be wheeling and dealing.
In this window alone there has been firm interest for Bartley and Montero.
In the previous window we could have got a decent transfer fee for Ki.
These are all bit part players that we could have replaced with potential. |
When have we consistantly made a profit every year?
Off the top of my head we lost £13m over the last 2 years. We lost £9m in year 1. We posted a £15m profit in year 3 (post tax)
So thats cumulative losses of £7m in 4 and a quarter years of our 6 year PL life. There is 20 months of accounts I have not taken into consideration (I cant remember seeing the figures) but clearly isnt going to show oodles of profit to a point where we can spend consistantly on top players without selling.
People continually mention the Sky money without considering our operating costs alone take the majority of that up immediately. [Post edited 9 Aug 2017 1:35]
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| Gylfi on 01:30 - Aug 9 with 2816 views | Nirvana |
| Gylfi on 01:16 - Aug 9 by Kerouac |
Firstly, if we really don't have any money when we have been one of the few clubs to consistently make a profit every year, starting off with a lower wage bill than everyone else in the league and with tons of Sky cash coming through the door every season...then the people in charge have really made a pigs ear of it, and there is plenty of evidence to support that view;
- Not getting top dollar in terms of star player sales
- failing to get serious transfer fees for proven Premier League performers (see Chico)
- Paying off managers and their coaching staff every 2 minutes (all started with Laudrup...why oh why oh why oh why couldn't some of you have any fecking patience. Believe you me, that period was the start of our decline.
- Bringing shite like Gomis and Tabannou in and then paying them off at the end of their time here
- Baston FFS!
- Handing out long, well paid contracts to back up players who haven't earned them and who aren't good enough to contribute at this level.
- Handing out contracts to our favourite old players...FFS! This is supposed to be business. Be ruthless.
However, we have already vastly reduced the wage bill this season from last and are a few mill up on the transfer market.
For that reason alone we should be able to fund the purchase of a £5-10m player...and we should be able to do that and rest easy on the facts that there is plenty more deadwood to shift and the golden goose transfer, in the guise of Siggy, in the pipeline.
...and on Siggy, I agree that it is prudent to sell 1 star player at the top of their transfer value every year or so and replace with the younger version.
I have never denied that this model is sensible for a club our size...and I hope to see Siggy go for £50m.
I am just not having that the entirety of our transfer business should hinge on the sale of said star player.
We should be wheeling and dealing.
In this window alone there has been firm interest for Bartley and Montero.
In the previous window we could have got a decent transfer fee for Ki.
These are all bit part players that we could have replaced with potential. |
Great post again, Kerouac.
I hope we keep Siggy but if we get £50m we have to sell, especially if he wants out.
Other than that, agree wholeheartedly. | | | |
| Gylfi on 01:31 - Aug 9 with 2814 views | Kerouac |
| Gylfi on 01:16 - Aug 9 by dameedna |
The one fly in the ointment is that as we have not done much transfer business Everton know they are disrupting our plans.
Trotted out many a timebut we do have 6 or 7 new players and Siggy and Llorente are still here.
Take away the disruption and frustration causedby the Siggy and Llorente show and we would be in a good position having signed Mesa, Abs, Carroll, Ayew, Olsson, Narsingh and lost Cork, Baston and Gomis.
We are potentially going to struggle without Siggy and Llorente but it will be a good first month to see how we fare with a new more fliud line up.
For example Fer, Carroll, Ayew, Abraham and Routledge have looked sensational in my opinion and I would be starting them even if Siggy stays. |
I was encouraged by the Sampdoria game, we did look good.
Abraham is the real deal, I have always rated Fer as an attacking threat (even before he joined us I used to point him out to our son and say "we'd better watch that one, he is a proper handful") and he seems to have a chemistry with Abraham...they were clearly enjoying playing together.
I saw some comments on here criticising Mesa...I am going to stick my neck out here (having only seen him in 1 pre-season friendly) and say that he too is the real deal. I was very reassured. Solid in the tackle, read the game well, used it well. He and Carroll will be just great in midfield for me.
The problem is depth, and I can't ignore that we have a big problem if a couple of the first team drop out, and I can't ignore that some of the problems have been storing up for a while.
I'm at the stage where I would like to see something done about right-back now.
I'm at the stage where I can't believe the paucity of our wingers...the fact that we have never had a genuinely left footed winger worthy of the name in our Prem years.
I'm at the stage where I can't believe we only have 2 trustworthy centre-halves...1 of whom is a youngster and the other can't pass the fecking thing.
I know that it would take only 2 injuries at the back to relegate us (any 2 from the 4 starters).
I have had enough of excuses. | |
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| Gylfi on 01:36 - Aug 9 with 2794 views | E20Jack |
| Gylfi on 01:31 - Aug 9 by Kerouac |
I was encouraged by the Sampdoria game, we did look good.
Abraham is the real deal, I have always rated Fer as an attacking threat (even before he joined us I used to point him out to our son and say "we'd better watch that one, he is a proper handful") and he seems to have a chemistry with Abraham...they were clearly enjoying playing together.
I saw some comments on here criticising Mesa...I am going to stick my neck out here (having only seen him in 1 pre-season friendly) and say that he too is the real deal. I was very reassured. Solid in the tackle, read the game well, used it well. He and Carroll will be just great in midfield for me.
The problem is depth, and I can't ignore that we have a big problem if a couple of the first team drop out, and I can't ignore that some of the problems have been storing up for a while.
I'm at the stage where I would like to see something done about right-back now.
I'm at the stage where I can't believe the paucity of our wingers...the fact that we have never had a genuinely left footed winger worthy of the name in our Prem years.
I'm at the stage where I can't believe we only have 2 trustworthy centre-halves...1 of whom is a youngster and the other can't pass the fecking thing.
I know that it would take only 2 injuries at the back to relegate us (any 2 from the 4 starters).
I have had enough of excuses. |
If you want all those players then we must get the money to buy them. | |
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| Gylfi on 01:41 - Aug 9 with 2765 views | Nirvana |
| Gylfi on 01:16 - Aug 9 by dameedna |
The one fly in the ointment is that as we have not done much transfer business Everton know they are disrupting our plans.
Trotted out many a timebut we do have 6 or 7 new players and Siggy and Llorente are still here.
Take away the disruption and frustration causedby the Siggy and Llorente show and we would be in a good position having signed Mesa, Abs, Carroll, Ayew, Olsson, Narsingh and lost Cork, Baston and Gomis.
We are potentially going to struggle without Siggy and Llorente but it will be a good first month to see how we fare with a new more fliud line up.
For example Fer, Carroll, Ayew, Abraham and Routledge have looked sensational in my opinion and I would be starting them even if Siggy stays. |
Take out Routledge/Fer, add Siggy/Llorente, and I agree with you, Dameedna.
Both Siggy and Llorente are quality footballers, and I'd love to see them in a system that would show that. Last season was about survival, especially under Clement. Maybe this one is about playing good football again. We'll see.
But, they have both shown their ability over many seasons and clubs, and they deserve the chance to prove themselves if we return to our Swanselona days. My guess is they'd be exemplary players, and very effective. | | | |
| Gylfi on 01:43 - Aug 9 with 2756 views | Kerouac |
| Gylfi on 01:36 - Aug 9 by E20Jack |
If you want all those players then we must get the money to buy them. |
We have shipped out enough wages already to sign at least 1 decent player. Do you disagree?
...and if we want decent players to fill our problem positions we must stop WASTING money on shite like Baston, Gomis and Tabannou...and on sentimental contracts for 32 year old wingers, clapped out old full-backs and injury prone substitutes....and mountains of goalkeepers.
Jesus Christ we need two!
Supplemented by youth products and/or the loan system/free agents in the unlikely scenario that our 2 senior goalkeepers both cark it in a freak training ground incident.
What the actual f*cking f*ck have we been playing at wasting all that money on nobodies who occasionally play in goal for the U23s while Rangel has slowed to walking pace? [Post edited 9 Aug 2017 1:50]
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| Gylfi on 02:01 - Aug 9 with 2728 views | E20Jack |
| Gylfi on 01:43 - Aug 9 by Kerouac |
We have shipped out enough wages already to sign at least 1 decent player. Do you disagree?
...and if we want decent players to fill our problem positions we must stop WASTING money on shite like Baston, Gomis and Tabannou...and on sentimental contracts for 32 year old wingers, clapped out old full-backs and injury prone substitutes....and mountains of goalkeepers.
Jesus Christ we need two!
Supplemented by youth products and/or the loan system/free agents in the unlikely scenario that our 2 senior goalkeepers both cark it in a freak training ground incident.
What the actual f*cking f*ck have we been playing at wasting all that money on nobodies who occasionally play in goal for the U23s while Rangel has slowed to walking pace? [Post edited 9 Aug 2017 1:50]
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Yes I disagree mate. I doubt we have saved enough to be able to spend eight figures on players without any notable sales. Those players we bring in will be replacing any wages we got rid of - meaning we still need to fund transfer fees, agent fees, signing on fees and registration fees.
I agree our transfer windows have been woeful. Baston, Tabanou, Gomis to name but a few. But that was money generated from sales such as Bony, Allen, Sinclair, Ayew, Williams. That wasnt money out of thin air. We must start investing wisely, of that we can agree. [Post edited 9 Aug 2017 2:05]
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| Gylfi on 02:12 - Aug 9 with 2712 views | AnotherJohn |
One version emanating from the Telegraph is that there was verbal agreement on a £45m upfront deal with no adds ons, but that the Toffees then reneged and went back to the earlier offer. Personally I think it is time to tell them to jog on. |  | | |
| Gylfi on 04:11 - Aug 9 with 2584 views | dameedna |
Fer and Abraham have linked well. Ayew, Carroll and Routs did the same. Abraham i can see is going to take us to the next level but it is a new level for him and he may not get the chances he hopes for.
That pass from Ayew when Abs lined up to shoot and passed nstead to the left maybe Carroll. That Ayew pass was perfect the whole defence was sure Abs was going to shoot just because of the deftness. Then Abs got on the end and takes on all half chances and rebounds. I think it was Ayews break or could have been Routs that started.
But....
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Sampdoria were slack and open. The game against Brum was tighter. Mesa was allowed to look good i believe by Sampdoria. The test will be different at Southampton.
We still have our two tried and tested players and if they stay and stay injury free we will need them. If they go we may well struggle. Good on our club for holding out. | | | |
| Gylfi on 05:24 - Aug 9 with 2514 views | icecoldjack |
| Gylfi on 01:27 - Aug 9 by E20Jack |
When have we consistantly made a profit every year?
Off the top of my head we lost £13m over the last 2 years. We lost £9m in year 1. We posted a £15m profit in year 3 (post tax)
So thats cumulative losses of £7m in 4 and a quarter years of our 6 year PL life. There is 20 months of accounts I have not taken into consideration (I cant remember seeing the figures) but clearly isnt going to show oodles of profit to a point where we can spend consistantly on top players without selling.
People continually mention the Sky money without considering our operating costs alone take the majority of that up immediately. [Post edited 9 Aug 2017 1:35]
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If the Sky money takes up almost all our operating costs , then the club has indeed been run by utter incompetents !
Many on here have been saying for years how poorly we are doing things, signing rubbish and giving out long contracts to people who never play etc,etc.
Yet they are still here, taking a wage for their poor running of the Swans, utter madness, surely the focus from all fans should be why we're at the point where 85% of the money is needed just to keep us ticking over ? |  | | |
| Gylfi on 05:29 - Aug 9 with 2506 views | Shonky |
"When have we consistantly made a profit every year? "
I will just leave this here as no one seems to want to answer it.
Morons making up facts to suit arguments again. |  |
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| Gylfi on 06:48 - Aug 9 with 2370 views | jack247 |
If Siggy ends up staying, having missed pre season and disillusioned, while Clement and the squad have had a long period of uncertainty, it's not a good thing. I can't see how people are making that argument.
If we really wanted to keep him, we'd have just issued a 'hands off'' and played him in the friendlies. I've got a feeling it's reached the point where it has become about principle and saving face now. We are in real danger of cutting our nose off | | | |
| Gylfi on 07:25 - Aug 9 with 2258 views | AnotherJohn |
| Gylfi on 06:48 - Aug 9 by jack247 |
If Siggy ends up staying, having missed pre season and disillusioned, while Clement and the squad have had a long period of uncertainty, it's not a good thing. I can't see how people are making that argument.
If we really wanted to keep him, we'd have just issued a 'hands off'' and played him in the friendlies. I've got a feeling it's reached the point where it has become about principle and saving face now. We are in real danger of cutting our nose off |
If Everton really have reneged on an earlier offer then I think we just have to accept the risk and remind Siggy of his three year + contract. Caving in would be a marker of weakness that would reinforce the impression that we will always roll over and sell below top-dollar. I don't see the Americans doing that. | | | |
| Gylfi on 07:37 - Aug 9 with 2205 views | ExiledJack |
| Gylfi on 01:16 - Aug 9 by E20Jack |
Until people can look at the accounts and find this mystical money then it is pie in the sky. There doesnt HAVE to be money lying around just because we are in the Premier league, and this notion is why people cannot grasp the financial side of the transfer market.
There is risk in everything. Siggy may have a bad season, he may get an injury, he may decide he doesnt want to put effort in, we may get relegated as a result (our worst seasons have come with him in the side). However keeping him only guarantees we will be without him and any of his money to replace him with in a few short seasons time.
Which of course is footballing and financial suicide. [Post edited 9 Aug 2017 1:17]
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Different opinions don't necessarily indicate that people cannot grasp the financial side of the transfer market, it's hardly rocket science after all.
The accounts will certainly be enlightening, as while there doesn't have to be money lying around there certainly should be if we're being run properly. We have many advantages with our squad composition and being based in Swansea that should assist our wage bill in comparison to other clubs. If our operating costs are equal to our income each and every season, footballing and financial suicide is an apt summation.
The risk in a model where we simply have to sell our crown jewels every year is that we are at the behest of other clubs in the market, as we are currently seeing play out with Everton. Far better to operate from a position of strength. Incidentally, despite Koeman's comments I don't believe Everton's desire for Siggy is strong enough for an equitable trade, hopefully another club will have a need for a player of his skill set before the window closes. | | | |
| Gylfi on 07:40 - Aug 9 with 2189 views | jack247 |
| Gylfi on 07:25 - Aug 9 by AnotherJohn |
If Everton really have reneged on an earlier offer then I think we just have to accept the risk and remind Siggy of his three year + contract. Caving in would be a marker of weakness that would reinforce the impression that we will always roll over and sell below top-dollar. I don't see the Americans doing that. |
I have my doubts as to whether they will too.
Puttng aside the fact that £40m + is a huge amount of money for him, we have been completely played over this transfer. I just hope they don't attempt to save face by walking away, as it would leave us with an unhappy, unfit player who probably isn't worth the original offer anyway. | | | |
| Gylfi on 08:14 - Aug 9 with 2033 views | Whiterockin |
Next move for me is.
Inform Siggy immediately that unless he puts in a transfer request today he is back in the squad for Saturday. He can be integrated from the bench if required.
If he puts in a transfer request sell him to Leicester for £40M if they still want him. By the time you take off Siggys cut, Spurs percentage, fees and tax there will not be a lot in it.
Furthermore Everton will get what they deserve. |  | | |
| Gylfi on 08:24 - Aug 9 with 2004 views | Neath_Jack |
We'll be relegated without Gylfi being here next year? Put your knickers back on ffs, grown men most of you are mind.
Coupled with Bartley signing a new contract, we'll be in League 1 in a couple of years too.
We have some of the worst "fans" in the world. |  |
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| Gylfi on 09:01 - Aug 9 with 1836 views | 34dfgdf54 |
So we are less than £5mill apart, some papers saying they have offered £45mill up front, but we won't budge off £50mill.
No way in a million years can that be true, £45mill up front I'll drive him up there myself and not even claim the petrol back. |  | | |
| Gylfi on 09:10 - Aug 9 with 1787 views | raynor94 |
| Gylfi on 09:01 - Aug 9 by 34dfgdf54 |
So we are less than £5mill apart, some papers saying they have offered £45mill up front, but we won't budge off £50mill.
No way in a million years can that be true, £45mill up front I'll drive him up there myself and not even claim the petrol back. |
I think you would be killed in the rush, if this is over £5 million, I hope the truth comes out one day over this farcical situation |  |
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| Gylfi on 09:14 - Aug 9 with 1762 views | SwansNZ |
| Gylfi on 09:10 - Aug 9 by raynor94 |
I think you would be killed in the rush, if this is over £5 million, I hope the truth comes out one day over this farcical situation |
5 million to Huw, is a whole new player. |  |
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| Gylfi on 09:17 - Aug 9 with 1745 views | raynor94 |
| Gylfi on 09:14 - Aug 9 by SwansNZ |
5 million to Huw, is a whole new player. |
This hasn't anything to do with Huw | |
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