| JVZ again 18:17 - Nov 4 with 37940 views | Darran |
Prick.
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| JVZ again on 11:38 - Nov 6 with 2042 views | TheResurrection |
Not at all and not knowingly guilty of double standards. If you believe I am please point them out and I'll explain.
My ire over the years with various members of the hierarchy has been because these people have been gradually taking the Club away from the supporters. Also, a big focus on making sure people are doing the jobs they are supposed to and for the right reasons.
With John, I've posted this on Facebook as can't be bothered to type it out again on here....
""I think John should keep away from social media as the pitch forks are out for him and it's being orchestrated via Prosser. I don't begrudge him getting the tickets. I don't see it as Swans fans missing out. I've got a ticket for tomorrow and always have, so have my mates and we've all been going for years. The 3000 or 4000 that watched us back then will have tickets. He put his money in when him doing so probably meant a lot more than some of the others, him and Tenko. He's put us on the map out in Holland and those Dutch boys have probably seen us a lot more than some of our South Wales plastics should""
The people, well one person really making this a crusdade, I despise. He's got a massive issue with any foreigner it seems, as has been evidenced over the years on this site, be them Danes, Koreans, Dutch, Americans, he's racially aggressive to them all.
I think if we're all honest and I'm sure this has been debated many times over the years on here is the difficulty in begrudging the selling owners their big pay day. Yes, the way they have gone about it has not covered them in glory and that's the real problem we have now.
I still am finding it difficult to look further than the Trust for my main anger but am willing to help their cause in any way I can..... But I warned about this and did so for a very long time... Saying from memory in a post I brought back to life after 2 years that the Ex Dirctors have got the Trust, namely Cooze, exactly where they want him.
To me, the time for all this anger and determination was back then, the time for policing their every move and demanding transparency too.
Darren is a vile person and in addition to the above, a true hypocrite. Where was this creature when we really needed him?
I'll tell you where Mr Pacemaker, he was defending every single one of then, bar John Van Zweden to the hilt.
It's a different story now and he should be completely ashamed of himself for the way he's violated this message board, that's why anything that comes from his mouth or keyboard should be flushed down the toilet where it belongs. |  |
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| JVZ again on 11:45 - Nov 6 with 1998 views | Darran |
| JVZ again on 11:38 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
Not at all and not knowingly guilty of double standards. If you believe I am please point them out and I'll explain.
My ire over the years with various members of the hierarchy has been because these people have been gradually taking the Club away from the supporters. Also, a big focus on making sure people are doing the jobs they are supposed to and for the right reasons.
With John, I've posted this on Facebook as can't be bothered to type it out again on here....
""I think John should keep away from social media as the pitch forks are out for him and it's being orchestrated via Prosser. I don't begrudge him getting the tickets. I don't see it as Swans fans missing out. I've got a ticket for tomorrow and always have, so have my mates and we've all been going for years. The 3000 or 4000 that watched us back then will have tickets. He put his money in when him doing so probably meant a lot more than some of the others, him and Tenko. He's put us on the map out in Holland and those Dutch boys have probably seen us a lot more than some of our South Wales plastics should""
The people, well one person really making this a crusdade, I despise. He's got a massive issue with any foreigner it seems, as has been evidenced over the years on this site, be them Danes, Koreans, Dutch, Americans, he's racially aggressive to them all.
I think if we're all honest and I'm sure this has been debated many times over the years on here is the difficulty in begrudging the selling owners their big pay day. Yes, the way they have gone about it has not covered them in glory and that's the real problem we have now.
I still am finding it difficult to look further than the Trust for my main anger but am willing to help their cause in any way I can..... But I warned about this and did so for a very long time... Saying from memory in a post I brought back to life after 2 years that the Ex Dirctors have got the Trust, namely Cooze, exactly where they want him.
To me, the time for all this anger and determination was back then, the time for policing their every move and demanding transparency too.
Darren is a vile person and in addition to the above, a true hypocrite. Where was this creature when we really needed him?
I'll tell you where Mr Pacemaker, he was defending every single one of then, bar John Van Zweden to the hilt.
It's a different story now and he should be completely ashamed of himself for the way he's violated this message board, that's why anything that comes from his mouth or keyboard should be flushed down the toilet where it belongs. |
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| JVZ again on 11:49 - Nov 6 with 1963 views | Uxbridge |
| JVZ again on 10:35 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
But like you say, this has gone on since our League 1 days. John has been running the travel for years too.
You can't make excuses for Jim White and Cooze having business interests because thing were different back then and not for this John now?
What did you say about looking through Premier league eyes at league one level?
By the way, when you say pseudonym's, doesn't everyone on here have them?
Darran and BigPhilG are one and the same, are you saying Copa Mundial is someone else doing the same? |
An interesting take, but I have a slightly different view.
Taking in order:
Jim - Was involved with the club in League 1, possibly the Championship, I'd have to check the dates. Hasn't been involved for some considerable time. Posted chapter and verse on his financial relationship with the club, in fairness. Either way, long since over.
HC - Programme design contract predated his involvement with Trust. Regularly put out to tender. Not ideal, completely agree, but public knowledge. The SD/SLO and transparency are bigger issues for me there, for which he and the trust have taken considerable flak, and a lot of it fair.
JvZ. As you say, has brought groups of fans over for a significant period of time, and at times when we've been crying out for fans. Must admit I wasn't aware he had his own travel company. Maybe I should have, I don't know, but I'd not seen it mentioned anywhere previously. This has not been an issue where we've had capacity, either in a lower division or less attractive games. So we have a situation where he's now bringing 80 people over for a game where tickets are very difficult to get their hands on. You may well be right, this could well be totally above board, however I think it's right and proper that questions should be asked to find out, which they will. If he had any pull previously because of his position, then that obviously has to end now. I also don't think he has any business being in the directors box these days either.
We can only sort things out for the present and future. I don't think you can hang people for decisions made 9 or 10 years ago against the current circumstances, which is where I disagreed with you on Jim. One thing to note in the new documents, is that if there was ever a situation like that again it would be publicly disclosed.
However, you definitely can judge current actions against current circumstances, which for me is the big difference here. There are valid questions that need answering for the here and now IMO.
As for pseudonym's, I've never understood the point. They'll all get found out eventually anyway, and you look pretty silly when they do. I couldn't tell you who has them and who doesn't, but I like to think I can spot an agenda a mile away. |  |
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| JVZ again on 11:50 - Nov 6 with 1956 views | Darran |
Funny thing I've just remembered I was literally sitting next to Pacemaker in the Trust Forum fighting to stop the first lot of Yanks coming here.
Can't remember seeing you there Chrissy.  | |
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| JVZ again on 12:04 - Nov 6 with 1898 views | Uxbridge |
| JVZ again on 11:38 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
Not at all and not knowingly guilty of double standards. If you believe I am please point them out and I'll explain.
My ire over the years with various members of the hierarchy has been because these people have been gradually taking the Club away from the supporters. Also, a big focus on making sure people are doing the jobs they are supposed to and for the right reasons.
With John, I've posted this on Facebook as can't be bothered to type it out again on here....
""I think John should keep away from social media as the pitch forks are out for him and it's being orchestrated via Prosser. I don't begrudge him getting the tickets. I don't see it as Swans fans missing out. I've got a ticket for tomorrow and always have, so have my mates and we've all been going for years. The 3000 or 4000 that watched us back then will have tickets. He put his money in when him doing so probably meant a lot more than some of the others, him and Tenko. He's put us on the map out in Holland and those Dutch boys have probably seen us a lot more than some of our South Wales plastics should""
The people, well one person really making this a crusdade, I despise. He's got a massive issue with any foreigner it seems, as has been evidenced over the years on this site, be them Danes, Koreans, Dutch, Americans, he's racially aggressive to them all.
I think if we're all honest and I'm sure this has been debated many times over the years on here is the difficulty in begrudging the selling owners their big pay day. Yes, the way they have gone about it has not covered them in glory and that's the real problem we have now.
I still am finding it difficult to look further than the Trust for my main anger but am willing to help their cause in any way I can..... But I warned about this and did so for a very long time... Saying from memory in a post I brought back to life after 2 years that the Ex Dirctors have got the Trust, namely Cooze, exactly where they want him.
To me, the time for all this anger and determination was back then, the time for policing their every move and demanding transparency too.
Darren is a vile person and in addition to the above, a true hypocrite. Where was this creature when we really needed him?
I'll tell you where Mr Pacemaker, he was defending every single one of then, bar John Van Zweden to the hilt.
It's a different story now and he should be completely ashamed of himself for the way he's violated this message board, that's why anything that comes from his mouth or keyboard should be flushed down the toilet where it belongs. |
if you reckon Darran is orchestrating the twitter pitchforks against JvZ then you've got a bigger impression of him than he does of himself, and that's big enough!
There's genuine anger out there. Some at the Trust for sure, a lot at the Americans, but mainly against the sellers. Partly for their actions before, during and after the sale, but also for the state we've been left in on the pitch. To then keep on calling Swans fans "clowns" amongst other things on social media, as well as sending provocative pictures of him lording it up in directors boxes around the country even after selling, is always going to get people's backs up.
You're right, he needs to keep away from social media. However IMO that's largely because he's not helping himself. | |
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| JVZ again on 12:05 - Nov 6 with 1886 views | Darran |
| JVZ again on 11:49 - Nov 6 by Uxbridge |
An interesting take, but I have a slightly different view.
Taking in order:
Jim - Was involved with the club in League 1, possibly the Championship, I'd have to check the dates. Hasn't been involved for some considerable time. Posted chapter and verse on his financial relationship with the club, in fairness. Either way, long since over.
HC - Programme design contract predated his involvement with Trust. Regularly put out to tender. Not ideal, completely agree, but public knowledge. The SD/SLO and transparency are bigger issues for me there, for which he and the trust have taken considerable flak, and a lot of it fair.
JvZ. As you say, has brought groups of fans over for a significant period of time, and at times when we've been crying out for fans. Must admit I wasn't aware he had his own travel company. Maybe I should have, I don't know, but I'd not seen it mentioned anywhere previously. This has not been an issue where we've had capacity, either in a lower division or less attractive games. So we have a situation where he's now bringing 80 people over for a game where tickets are very difficult to get their hands on. You may well be right, this could well be totally above board, however I think it's right and proper that questions should be asked to find out, which they will. If he had any pull previously because of his position, then that obviously has to end now. I also don't think he has any business being in the directors box these days either.
We can only sort things out for the present and future. I don't think you can hang people for decisions made 9 or 10 years ago against the current circumstances, which is where I disagreed with you on Jim. One thing to note in the new documents, is that if there was ever a situation like that again it would be publicly disclosed.
However, you definitely can judge current actions against current circumstances, which for me is the big difference here. There are valid questions that need answering for the here and now IMO.
As for pseudonym's, I've never understood the point. They'll all get found out eventually anyway, and you look pretty silly when they do. I couldn't tell you who has them and who doesn't, but I like to think I can spot an agenda a mile away. |
Ask Phil Sumbler how many usernames I've got when you see him later. | |
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| JVZ again on 12:09 - Nov 6 with 1864 views | Uxbridge |
| JVZ again on 12:05 - Nov 6 by Darran |
Ask Phil Sumbler how many usernames I've got when you see him later. |
Why am I seeing Phil later? Anyway, I don't think you're PhilG.
Anyway, time to go to the game. What could go wrong ... | |
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| JVZ again on 12:10 - Nov 6 with 1855 views | TheResurrection |
Andrew you're falling into the trap of justifying everything again and that's a dangerous game as has been proven in recent weeks.
I know you'll come back with the rationale that your opinion is just as valid as mine but you're not really in a position of strength at this moment and for me I'm still not fully seeing you all apologize for the various issues you've defended over the years.
Please don't mention Jim White's dealings with the Club as that is deeply offensive to me.
The man only put his money in and bought corporate hospitality and all this from his business account on expense whilst he was flogging his software to the club and enjoying all the kudos that came with it.
The more you defend Cooze' position as programme maker and Trust Director the less sympathy you will get from moderate members and posters as this clearly should not have been allowed tocontinue. I read this almost daily on here from well respected people.
And lastly John bringing over around 80 or so fans has been ddiscussed countless times on here even in the Premier League so don't pretend to be surprised about it. | |
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| JVZ again on 12:23 - Nov 6 with 1794 views | Uxbridge |
| JVZ again on 12:10 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
Andrew you're falling into the trap of justifying everything again and that's a dangerous game as has been proven in recent weeks.
I know you'll come back with the rationale that your opinion is just as valid as mine but you're not really in a position of strength at this moment and for me I'm still not fully seeing you all apologize for the various issues you've defended over the years.
Please don't mention Jim White's dealings with the Club as that is deeply offensive to me.
The man only put his money in and bought corporate hospitality and all this from his business account on expense whilst he was flogging his software to the club and enjoying all the kudos that came with it.
The more you defend Cooze' position as programme maker and Trust Director the less sympathy you will get from moderate members and posters as this clearly should not have been allowed tocontinue. I read this almost daily on here from well respected people.
And lastly John bringing over around 80 or so fans has been ddiscussed countless times on here even in the Premier League so don't pretend to be surprised about it. |
OK last post, as I quite fancy a pint ..
I can only give my opinion. I'm not sure what position of strength has to do with it .. should i say something I don't believe because it chimes with the mood at the time? I'd be rightly accused of being a hypocrit if I was to do that. I'm many things, but I don't believe I'm that.
I'm not here to defend Jim. I'm not here to defend Huw. I've posted my views, particularly about the latter, in recent times.
Like I say, I believe we can only look to rectify what is currently happening. The Trust, and Huw, acknowledged its mistakes and has put into place measures to ensure total transparency going forward. I think an excellent appointment has been made as SD. Putting into place measures that will mean that the situations you describe are far less likely to occur is a good step forward, however as always there'll be more work to do.
I do think you're given JvZ a bit of a free pass though. I think there are issues that need addressing there too, just like the Trust has had to. | |
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| JVZ again on 12:45 - Nov 6 with 1707 views | dobjack2 |
| JVZ again on 10:35 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
But like you say, this has gone on since our League 1 days. John has been running the travel for years too.
You can't make excuses for Jim White and Cooze having business interests because thing were different back then and not for this John now?
What did you say about looking through Premier league eyes at league one level?
By the way, when you say pseudonym's, doesn't everyone on here have them?
Darran and BigPhilG are one and the same, are you saying Copa Mundial is someone else doing the same? |
Firstly he is a sell out
Secondly he is taking the pi$$ on Twitter
Thirdly If, and I say if as this story has not been proven, he has been using his position as a director to make money off that position by getting hold of tickets and selling trips using those tickets as the selling point and is still doing it now he is not a director:
Then those are 3 reasons for me to be angry about JVZ.
He may have been running the travel for years but if he has been able to do it by getting priority access to tickets then he is just another one that has been taking the pi$$ for years.
It is an issue that has been brought up on this board before and whatever he has been doing should have been transparent. |  | | |
| JVZ again on 12:46 - Nov 6 with 1701 views | blueytheblue |
T2C complains at Trust ex-Supporters Director making money out of the club.
T2C thinks it's ok for a now ex-Director to run a travel company, falsely representing himself as being a current director whilst profiteering from selling packages to "fans".
No, no double standard there whatsoever. | |
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| JVZ again on 13:07 - Nov 6 with 1621 views | TheResurrection |
| JVZ again on 12:45 - Nov 6 by dobjack2 |
Firstly he is a sell out
Secondly he is taking the pi$$ on Twitter
Thirdly If, and I say if as this story has not been proven, he has been using his position as a director to make money off that position by getting hold of tickets and selling trips using those tickets as the selling point and is still doing it now he is not a director:
Then those are 3 reasons for me to be angry about JVZ.
He may have been running the travel for years but if he has been able to do it by getting priority access to tickets then he is just another one that has been taking the pi$$ for years.
It is an issue that has been brought up on this board before and whatever he has been doing should have been transparent. |
Well he has been doing it for years and you even sound like you're admitting it.
So...... Where were you all back then eh???
Happy to clap along with everything they did.
Not.Good.Enough.
Bleating now is embarrassing. | |
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| JVZ again on 13:13 - Nov 6 with 1603 views | TheResurrection |
| JVZ again on 12:46 - Nov 6 by blueytheblue |
T2C complains at Trust ex-Supporters Director making money out of the club.
T2C thinks it's ok for a now ex-Director to run a travel company, falsely representing himself as being a current director whilst profiteering from selling packages to "fans".
No, no double standard there whatsoever. |
I don't overly care for people on here knowing me.
But if you're going to use my name then have the guts to announce who you are. I'm sure the ridicule would run deep on both sides of the rivalry to find out who you really are.
Anyway, I'm not defending him at will. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy that's so evident all over this site at the moment. | |
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| JVZ again on 13:43 - Nov 6 with 1524 views | DafyddHuw |
| JVZ again on 18:08 - Nov 5 by Wingstandwood |
Sorry I do not know what a hyperbole is? When you're up exceedingly high in the air trainasium style? You do not have to worry about them. Thanks for your concern. And please feel free to educate me so you can boost your self esteem!
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I understand that because your vocabulary is limited, then you feel the need to take your inferiority out on others.
Just try reading some books. |  | | |
| JVZ again on 13:45 - Nov 6 with 1512 views | dobjack2 |
| JVZ again on 13:07 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
Well he has been doing it for years and you even sound like you're admitting it.
So...... Where were you all back then eh???
Happy to clap along with everything they did.
Not.Good.Enough.
Bleating now is embarrassing. |
Can't you post without being rude or is it part of your image?
You appear to be trying to deflect a bit on this one by trying to get me to justify why I am angry with JVZ. I've already said that. You on the other hand don't seem to want to criticise him. Why is that? | | | |
| JVZ again on 13:52 - Nov 6 with 1492 views | Murph75 |
| JVZ again on 13:45 - Nov 6 by dobjack2 |
Can't you post without being rude or is it part of your image?
You appear to be trying to deflect a bit on this one by trying to get me to justify why I am angry with JVZ. I've already said that. You on the other hand don't seem to want to criticise him. Why is that? |
It's his hard boy image. |  | | |
| JVZ again on 14:10 - Nov 6 with 1465 views | TheResurrection |
| JVZ again on 13:45 - Nov 6 by dobjack2 |
Can't you post without being rude or is it part of your image?
You appear to be trying to deflect a bit on this one by trying to get me to justify why I am angry with JVZ. I've already said that. You on the other hand don't seem to want to criticise him. Why is that? |
I'm not interested in deflections. I want to see some go in the top corner but without the mass hypocrisy I'm seeing on a daily basis.
If you think that's rude then I'd suggest mumsnet might be a better place to take your faux outrage to. | |
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| JVZ again on 14:12 - Nov 6 with 1456 views | blueytheblue |
| JVZ again on 13:13 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
I don't overly care for people on here knowing me.
But if you're going to use my name then have the guts to announce who you are. I'm sure the ridicule would run deep on both sides of the rivalry to find out who you really are.
Anyway, I'm not defending him at will. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy that's so evident all over this site at the moment. |
So you can as usual attack the man ( or woman ) rather than the argument?
The hypocracy is at your end.
JvZ isn't bringing "fans" over. He's bringing clients who pay a fair bit on overall travel packages which make money for... JvZ. If he obtained those tickets for sweet FA - care to work out how much money your club gets from it? [Post edited 6 Nov 2016 14:21]
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| JVZ again on 14:19 - Nov 6 with 1432 views | Wingstandwood |
| JVZ again on 13:43 - Nov 6 by DafyddHuw |
I understand that because your vocabulary is limited, then you feel the need to take your inferiority out on others.
Just try reading some books. |
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| JVZ again on 14:26 - Nov 6 with 1409 views | dobjack2 |
| JVZ again on 14:10 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
I'm not interested in deflections. I want to see some go in the top corner but without the mass hypocrisy I'm seeing on a daily basis.
If you think that's rude then I'd suggest mumsnet might be a better place to take your faux outrage to. |
You have no respect for other posters and cry foul when other people are rude to you. I'm going to resist the temptation to speak to you in kind as that would simply lower things to a slanging match and take it away from the topic which is what you appear to want to happen in this thread.
Anyway back on topic there is nothing faux about my anger and I see no hypocrisy in it.
On this thread you seem unwilling to criticise JVZ fair enough we all have our own opinions and I respect that, but I'm not sure which of the points that I made that you disagree with.
Do you think I am wrong to be angry with him for being a sell out?
Do you think I am wrong to be angry with him for taking the pi$$ on Twitter or
If it is proven that he has used his position as a director to make money and to continue to make money now he is no longer a director would I be wrong to be angry with him? | | | |
| JVZ again on 14:35 - Nov 6 with 1385 views | TheResurrection |
| JVZ again on 14:12 - Nov 6 by blueytheblue |
So you can as usual attack the man ( or woman ) rather than the argument?
The hypocracy is at your end.
JvZ isn't bringing "fans" over. He's bringing clients who pay a fair bit on overall travel packages which make money for... JvZ. If he obtained those tickets for sweet FA - care to work out how much money your club gets from it? [Post edited 6 Nov 2016 14:21]
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There's no way he's got those tickets for nothing and they're his mates mostly. He was out with them last night. | |
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| JVZ again on 14:38 - Nov 6 with 1373 views | longlostjack |
| JVZ again on 14:35 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
There's no way he's got those tickets for nothing and they're his mates mostly. He was out with them last night. |
Where did he get so many tickets from now that he's an ex-director? |  |
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| JVZ again on 14:40 - Nov 6 with 1369 views | TheResurrection |
| JVZ again on 14:26 - Nov 6 by dobjack2 |
You have no respect for other posters and cry foul when other people are rude to you. I'm going to resist the temptation to speak to you in kind as that would simply lower things to a slanging match and take it away from the topic which is what you appear to want to happen in this thread.
Anyway back on topic there is nothing faux about my anger and I see no hypocrisy in it.
On this thread you seem unwilling to criticise JVZ fair enough we all have our own opinions and I respect that, but I'm not sure which of the points that I made that you disagree with.
Do you think I am wrong to be angry with him for being a sell out?
Do you think I am wrong to be angry with him for taking the pi$$ on Twitter or
If it is proven that he has used his position as a director to make money and to continue to make money now he is no longer a director would I be wrong to be angry with him? |
Truth of the matter is, I don't care what YOU think.
And I respect many posters on here just not the usual hypocrites and bell ends.
And I will criticise John and am not sticking up for him. But he's been doing this for ten years plus,where were you all then? | |
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| JVZ again on 15:15 - Nov 6 with 1287 views | dobjack2 |
| JVZ again on 14:40 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
Truth of the matter is, I don't care what YOU think.
And I respect many posters on here just not the usual hypocrites and bell ends.
And I will criticise John and am not sticking up for him. But he's been doing this for ten years plus,where were you all then? |
No need to shout and no need to hurl about silly names if someone doesn't agree with your every word. Most people grew out of that when they got to about 10 years of age.
You make a lot of good points in threads so there is no need to act as if you are in a school playground.
Back on track you keep referring to JVZ as John which suggests he is your mate. Fair enough. You say that you are not sticking up for him and he has been doing this for years, fair point that he has been doing it for years but it is only in the last week or so that it has been suggested that he has been profiting out if it and you have been quick enough to attack others you believe have profited out of their positions in the club.
On your last point you are right more fool me for thinking the best of people and not questioning their motives before the first attempted share sale. I now question everyone's motives another sad reflection of the sorry state the club is in. | | | |
| JVZ again on 15:18 - Nov 6 with 1278 views | blueytheblue |
| JVZ again on 14:35 - Nov 6 by TheResurrection |
There's no way he's got those tickets for nothing and they're his mates mostly. He was out with them last night. |
Bit silly having a business and website given it's all really just for his mates, eh?
Can you point to a commercial agreement between your club and JvZ's business please. That would identify if the tickets were paid for or not.
I really am silly for thinking the worst of him. I mean, it's not like anything happened over summer indicating money is more important to him than principles etc... [Post edited 6 Nov 2016 15:19]
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