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It was touched on by a poster who replied to Clive's match report on the home page. Could racism be a factor in the non stop and over the top abuse Chris Ramsey is getting? Hey just putting it out there guys( I know that will go down well on Disco's irritation thread) Don't shoot the messenger etc etc...
looks like these two would be full members pf the lgbt group be a good squad theres a question when they are all out and flouncing about best poo pirates eleven ?
[Post edited 29 Oct 2015 12:55]
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Big Elephant in the room.. on 15:06 - Oct 29 with 2320 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 09:32 - Oct 29 by isawqpratwcity
I fail to see how employing ex-Tottenham staff qualifies for the description 'social experiment' (his phrase, not mine), but you believe what you want.
Getting back to the main point, the question of whether or not CR should be replaced: for me the evidence says 'definitely not yet'.
Well they are mostly black from what I've been told.
Big Elephant in the room.. on 10:05 - Oct 29 by captainmycaptian
on a serious note any idiot that thinks that if CR was winning / playing well that the crowd would not be behind him is a fool. social experiments are for libtard who sip mocha coffees sourced from fair traded cats feces while thinking they are saving the world. anyway I think......
There's a mountain of evidence on here that plenty are "not behind him" even after a win/playing well.
Many were on here Saturday evening giving Warnock credit for the 3-0 & predicting more doom and gloom (and a sacking) if he has the temerity to lose the next match.
For the record , to say the negativity is racially motivated is idiotic in my view.
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Big Elephant in the room.. on 23:02 - Oct 29 with 2234 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 15:06 - Oct 29 by Mvpeter
Well they are mostly black from what I've been told.
What evidence do you have that he is capable?
The only criterion that would qualify these appointments as a social experiment would be race (feel free to provide another if you can). BtB's last contribution now claims CR's appointment isn't about his colour. I read that as a withdrawal.
As for capability, we are 10th, and our record is 5-4-4. You can argue that is not entirely due to the manager/coach, and I would agree. But if he was inept, we couldn't be in that position.
Big Elephant in the room.. on 23:02 - Oct 29 by isawqpratwcity
The only criterion that would qualify these appointments as a social experiment would be race (feel free to provide another if you can). BtB's last contribution now claims CR's appointment isn't about his colour. I read that as a withdrawal.
As for capability, we are 10th, and our record is 5-4-4. You can argue that is not entirely due to the manager/coach, and I would agree. But if he was inept, we couldn't be in that position.
And that's what was suggested.....did you read my comment?
I'm a little confused as to why an inept manager with an 100 million pound squad can't achieve wins against the bottom 10 of the championship.
Individual goals have papered over the cracks. Happened again at the weekend. The things that you would attribute to management, like organisation and style, simply haven't been there. Same as under Harry really.
Big Elephant in the room.. on 08:52 - Oct 30 by Mvpeter
And that's what was suggested.....did you read my comment?
I'm a little confused as to why an inept manager with an 100 million pound squad can't achieve wins against the bottom 10 of the championship.
Individual goals have papered over the cracks. Happened again at the weekend. The things that you would attribute to management, like organisation and style, simply haven't been there. Same as under Harry really.
Sorry, can't let two things on that go unchallenged
£100M squad - really?!
Love this one "Goals have papered over the cracks"
Damn those pesky goals spoiling all the misery eh?!
If it wasn't for being top scorers in the div we would be bottom - brilliant!
Big Elephant in the room.. on 09:22 - Oct 30 by PinnerPaul
Sorry, can't let two things on that go unchallenged
£100M squad - really?!
Love this one "Goals have papered over the cracks"
Damn those pesky goals spoiling all the misery eh?!
If it wasn't for being top scorers in the div we would be bottom - brilliant!
No you're right it's nice and cheap. It was £108.3m last time we were in the division but £100m would be crazy. Just like I was crazy for suggesting that that was what we were doing last time. Perpetually crazy me, except when you actually look at what I've said with the benefit of hindsight, oh but that's luck.
I'd love that one too if that's what I'd said. Shame the internet stores that information isn't it. I quite clearly said INDIVIDUAL GOALS. How do you paper over cracks without papering?
Damn pesky wallpaper spoiling the decorations. Doesn't work does it?
Because 'papering over the cracks' means 'short term positive actions that are unsustainable in the long term (due to the following issues) are masking the greater fundamental issues at play'
Sort of like how promotion to the premier league papered over the cracks of this club and it's lack of infrastructure.
Big Elephant in the room.. on 10:50 - Oct 30 by Mvpeter
No you're right it's nice and cheap. It was £108.3m last time we were in the division but £100m would be crazy. Just like I was crazy for suggesting that that was what we were doing last time. Perpetually crazy me, except when you actually look at what I've said with the benefit of hindsight, oh but that's luck.
I'd love that one too if that's what I'd said. Shame the internet stores that information isn't it. I quite clearly said INDIVIDUAL GOALS. How do you paper over cracks without papering?
Damn pesky wallpaper spoiling the decorations. Doesn't work does it?
Because 'papering over the cracks' means 'short term positive actions that are unsustainable in the long term (due to the following issues) are masking the greater fundamental issues at play'
Sort of like how promotion to the premier league papered over the cracks of this club and it's lack of infrastructure.
Damn pesky promotion spoiling QPR football......
[Post edited 30 Oct 2015 11:56]
I think you've actually gone a little bit mad.
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Big Elephant in the room.. on 11:51 - Oct 30 with 2104 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 12:12 - Oct 30 by Mvpeter
Yes my reasoned explanation of a turn of phrase was a maniacal rant.
Thats intellectual dishonesty and you know it. Especially when you're trying to dig me out because of your own claim.
[Post edited 30 Oct 2015 12:12]
Your "reasoned explanation" wouldn't have sounded out of place being shouted out across a crowded street by a man being loaded into the back of a white van. I'm digging you out for that, nothing more. You do it all the time, ranting on about how your opinion is fact and anybody who disagrees is a foolish idiot. I haven't once mentioned your £100m squad line, just that one of the posts that mentioned it read like the work of an unhinged person. "Intellectual dishonesty" - how fcking old are you?
I'll "dig you out" for the individual goals bolox though. Ramsey and Ferdinand signed JET, a known maverick and scorer of spectacular individual goals on his day, also a known lazy fcker and not a team player. They've made him fight for his place, got him working hard for the team and turned him into what looks like a decent Championship player - something much more experienced managers at Ipswich and Cardiff failed to do. Now you're saying the spectacular goals he's scored are papering over their other failings. How would we have those spectacular goals to even serve as paper if they hadn't signed him and got him playing for the team in the first place? Should they not be credited with signing and developing a player capable of winning a game for them even when the performances aren't up to scratch?
By that logic Eric Cantona papered over the cracks of Alex Ferguson's early Manchester United reign. Forget that Ferguson signed a maverick player but known trouble maker, forget that he turned him into a fantastic team centre forward and one of the best players in the country, forget all of that and instead say that without Cantona's individual brilliance Ferguson would have been stuck with Brain McClair and would have won fck all so actually he's inept and just got lucky by signing good players.
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Big Elephant in the room.. on 13:25 - Oct 30 with 2026 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 12:21 - Oct 30 by Northernr
Your "reasoned explanation" wouldn't have sounded out of place being shouted out across a crowded street by a man being loaded into the back of a white van. I'm digging you out for that, nothing more. You do it all the time, ranting on about how your opinion is fact and anybody who disagrees is a foolish idiot. I haven't once mentioned your £100m squad line, just that one of the posts that mentioned it read like the work of an unhinged person. "Intellectual dishonesty" - how fcking old are you?
I'll "dig you out" for the individual goals bolox though. Ramsey and Ferdinand signed JET, a known maverick and scorer of spectacular individual goals on his day, also a known lazy fcker and not a team player. They've made him fight for his place, got him working hard for the team and turned him into what looks like a decent Championship player - something much more experienced managers at Ipswich and Cardiff failed to do. Now you're saying the spectacular goals he's scored are papering over their other failings. How would we have those spectacular goals to even serve as paper if they hadn't signed him and got him playing for the team in the first place? Should they not be credited with signing and developing a player capable of winning a game for them even when the performances aren't up to scratch?
By that logic Eric Cantona papered over the cracks of Alex Ferguson's early Manchester United reign. Forget that Ferguson signed a maverick player but known trouble maker, forget that he turned him into a fantastic team centre forward and one of the best players in the country, forget all of that and instead say that without Cantona's individual brilliance Ferguson would have been stuck with Brain McClair and would have won fck all so actually he's inept and just got lucky by signing good players.
This post has been edited by an administrator
'Your "reasoned explanation" wouldn't have sounded out of place being shouted out across a crowded street by a man being loaded into the back of a white van. I'm digging you out for that, nothing more. '
Which you say based on absolutely nothing. You don't give a reason. Is it or is it not the definition of the phrase? Did I explain the phrase arbitrarily or was my usage of it questioned? Very curious.
'You do it all the time, ranting on about how your opinion is fact and anybody who disagrees is a foolish idiot.' Ironic. Evidence for this ridiculous claim?
' haven't once mentioned your £100m squad line' No you just questioned my sanity based on a comment that was comprised of this point and one other. It was reasonable to assume that this line was relevant as you did not specify what you took exception to.
I'm old enough to understand what intellectual dishonesty is and so are you.
'Ramsey and Ferdinand signed JET, a known maverick and scorer of spectacular individual goals on his day, also a known lazy fcker and not a team player.' Ok.
'They've made him fight for his place, got him working hard for the team and turned him into what looks like a decent Championship player - something much more experienced managers at Ipswich and Cardiff failed to do. '
Woah woah woah now we're entering crazy town. He's turned into a decent Championship player because of a two game spell? We're comparing his output as a 24 year old with him as a 19-20 year old?
Let's assume that JET has made strides and is now a decent championship player and it's due to their influence. How would that not be papering over the cracks? Did YOU not write this article entitled 'Second Half Performance Papers Over Cracks?
Is this not YOU suggesting that the player signed by Harry Redknapp had papered over the cracks in the performance of this Harry Redknapp team? Is this an illogical argument because we should simply be praising Harry Redknapp?
Big Elephant in the room.. on 13:25 - Oct 30 by Mvpeter
'Your "reasoned explanation" wouldn't have sounded out of place being shouted out across a crowded street by a man being loaded into the back of a white van. I'm digging you out for that, nothing more. '
Which you say based on absolutely nothing. You don't give a reason. Is it or is it not the definition of the phrase? Did I explain the phrase arbitrarily or was my usage of it questioned? Very curious.
'You do it all the time, ranting on about how your opinion is fact and anybody who disagrees is a foolish idiot.' Ironic. Evidence for this ridiculous claim?
' haven't once mentioned your £100m squad line' No you just questioned my sanity based on a comment that was comprised of this point and one other. It was reasonable to assume that this line was relevant as you did not specify what you took exception to.
I'm old enough to understand what intellectual dishonesty is and so are you.
'Ramsey and Ferdinand signed JET, a known maverick and scorer of spectacular individual goals on his day, also a known lazy fcker and not a team player.' Ok.
'They've made him fight for his place, got him working hard for the team and turned him into what looks like a decent Championship player - something much more experienced managers at Ipswich and Cardiff failed to do. '
Woah woah woah now we're entering crazy town. He's turned into a decent Championship player because of a two game spell? We're comparing his output as a 24 year old with him as a 19-20 year old?
Let's assume that JET has made strides and is now a decent championship player and it's due to their influence. How would that not be papering over the cracks? Did YOU not write this article entitled 'Second Half Performance Papers Over Cracks?
Is this not YOU suggesting that the player signed by Harry Redknapp had papered over the cracks in the performance of this Harry Redknapp team? Is this an illogical argument because we should simply be praising Harry Redknapp?
Big Elephant in the room.. on 08:52 - Oct 30 by Mvpeter
And that's what was suggested.....did you read my comment?
I'm a little confused as to why an inept manager with an 100 million pound squad can't achieve wins against the bottom 10 of the championship.
Individual goals have papered over the cracks. Happened again at the weekend. The things that you would attribute to management, like organisation and style, simply haven't been there. Same as under Harry really.
Yes, I read your comment. While I don't find affirmative action offensive, it would be a highly dangerous course of action given the state of the club's finances. Also, I couldn't see Fernandes adopting such a strategy without trying to make publicity out of it. So no, I don't see Ramsey's appointment being based upon race at all.
Worse, Benny the Ball's labelling of the appointment as a 'social experiment' was, in my opinion, designed to inflame. It portrays the club's management as reckless and imprudent. Much worse, it dog-whistles racist sentiments. Again, in my opinion, the epithet needs to be condemned and, again, I point out the BtB appears to have withdrawn the description.
I agree that individual goals can change the perception of a game. But that works both ways, doesn't it? As for last week-end, three 'individual goals' is stretching the point a bit too far.
As for organisation and style, you may have missed Clive's reporting of CR's preferred set-up:
"Having met CR over the summer and asked him what his favoured formation is he said 433 every time, and we're not playing that ATM which suggests he doesn't think we have the players for it. 4-2-3-1 suits our players because we have an over supply of players for the hole and an undersupply of central midfielders who can get up and down the pitch."
Big Elephant in the room.. on 13:53 - Oct 30 by isawqpratwcity
Yes, I read your comment. While I don't find affirmative action offensive, it would be a highly dangerous course of action given the state of the club's finances. Also, I couldn't see Fernandes adopting such a strategy without trying to make publicity out of it. So no, I don't see Ramsey's appointment being based upon race at all.
Worse, Benny the Ball's labelling of the appointment as a 'social experiment' was, in my opinion, designed to inflame. It portrays the club's management as reckless and imprudent. Much worse, it dog-whistles racist sentiments. Again, in my opinion, the epithet needs to be condemned and, again, I point out the BtB appears to have withdrawn the description.
I agree that individual goals can change the perception of a game. But that works both ways, doesn't it? As for last week-end, three 'individual goals' is stretching the point a bit too far.
As for organisation and style, you may have missed Clive's reporting of CR's preferred set-up:
"Having met CR over the summer and asked him what his favoured formation is he said 433 every time, and we're not playing that ATM which suggests he doesn't think we have the players for it. 4-2-3-1 suits our players because we have an over supply of players for the hole and an undersupply of central midfielders who can get up and down the pitch."
Fair enough. I've had that accusation leveled at the club by a black employee. Well actually he was telling my dad but I was there too. He was suggesting that there was appointments being made throughout the academy and they were mostly black and friends of Les' and he was not happy because many people he considered good coaches had lost their jobs by letter unjustly. Nothing is provable here. It could all be true but Les simply thinks that is the best thing for the club. Who knows.
'I agree that individual goals can change the perception of a game. But that works both ways, doesn't it? As for last week-end, three 'individual goals' is stretching the point a bit too far. '
Absolutely. I was just talking about the first one. Then we had our tails up and MK had to chase the game.
'"Having met CR over the summer and asked him what his favoured formation is he said 433 every time, and we're not playing that ATM which suggests he doesn't think we have the players for it. 4-2-3-1 suits our players because we have an over supply of players for the hole and an undersupply of central midfielders who can get up and down the pitch."'
See I'd say that was fair if he would actually play one of those in the hole players in the hole and would actually play the central midfielders who can get up and down the pitch. Fer/Chery and Luongo/Gladwin respectively. When he's not doing that it seems like a problem that he's created.
Big Elephant in the room.. on 14:19 - Oct 30 by Mvpeter
Fair enough. I've had that accusation leveled at the club by a black employee. Well actually he was telling my dad but I was there too. He was suggesting that there was appointments being made throughout the academy and they were mostly black and friends of Les' and he was not happy because many people he considered good coaches had lost their jobs by letter unjustly. Nothing is provable here. It could all be true but Les simply thinks that is the best thing for the club. Who knows.
'I agree that individual goals can change the perception of a game. But that works both ways, doesn't it? As for last week-end, three 'individual goals' is stretching the point a bit too far. '
Absolutely. I was just talking about the first one. Then we had our tails up and MK had to chase the game.
'"Having met CR over the summer and asked him what his favoured formation is he said 433 every time, and we're not playing that ATM which suggests he doesn't think we have the players for it. 4-2-3-1 suits our players because we have an over supply of players for the hole and an undersupply of central midfielders who can get up and down the pitch."'
See I'd say that was fair if he would actually play one of those in the hole players in the hole and would actually play the central midfielders who can get up and down the pitch. Fer/Chery and Luongo/Gladwin respectively. When he's not doing that it seems like a problem that he's created.
So Les favours black people. Or friends. Or both. Or neither. Who knows indeed? You form your own assessment of the situation and I'll form mine. May I say your Dad's contact sounds somewhat disgruntled?
No. If you follow it with two more unanswered goals, the first one really can't be described as "papering over the cracks".
I'll pass on debating the role of individual players. We're tenth. When we're knocking twentieth, I might agree with you.
Big Elephant in the room.. on 00:27 - Oct 29 by bacardiinbrissie
My dad is a massive lump from grenada and started me at QPR Id love to know who your mate was and his dads name. Im almost certain I'd know of him..Not Lewis hamilton i assume. ?!
Note- I'm guessing you've figured Im mixed race too
Just wondering .Do you know my mate? And if not why were you so sure you would? And why did you ask if it was Lewis Hamilton ? His dad is f'cking tiny..
Big Elephant in the room.. on 15:34 - Oct 30 by isawqpratwcity
So Les favours black people. Or friends. Or both. Or neither. Who knows indeed? You form your own assessment of the situation and I'll form mine. May I say your Dad's contact sounds somewhat disgruntled?
No. If you follow it with two more unanswered goals, the first one really can't be described as "papering over the cracks".
I'll pass on debating the role of individual players. We're tenth. When we're knocking twentieth, I might agree with you.
Yeah he did sound disgruntled but tbf he usually does, I don't think he's gone anywhere though. My point was that I can understand the different interpretations.
I think it can if it followed 70 minutes of a pretty poor performance. I'm not trying to say it was Bolton level papering or Wembley level.
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