| The revival of New Labour and clear red water 09:52 - Jan 5 with 1208 views | AnotherJohn |
Wes Streeting’s announcement in the papers today of addressing the problems of the NHS through improved patient choice of hospital for elective services, and his recent mention of greater use of private hospitals to reduce waiting times, signal a revival of the New Labour policies introduced by Alan Milburn in the noughties. Giving patients the ability to choose between at least three hospitals when they were referred for investigations or treatment was an English NHS policy continued by the Tories/Lib Dems after 2010, but never universally implemented because of variable commitment from GPs and the pressures that tight budgets and later the pandemic brought.
The interesting thing is that patient choice was fiercely resisted by Labour in Wales. First Minister Rhodri Morgan spoke of the "clear red water" between Westminster and Cardiff Bay. Policy makers in Wales attacked the consumerism and market bias of the English New Labour policies. Rather the Welsh Government’s declared strategy was to “... empower the community to have its voice heard and heeded, rather than simply being given a choice of treatment location.” Similarly our government stated that the use of private providers to carry out NHS work would end in Wales (although waiting times pressures in some areas meant it actually continued).
A key special advisor on health to the First Minister at that time was Mark Drakeford. I doubt that our present Health Minister has changed his mind. Are we about to see MSs again muttering about clear red water and the right-leaning tendencies within New Labour?
[Post edited 5 Jan 10:21]
|  | | |  |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 09:58 - Jan 5 with 974 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Milburn made a fortune out of private health care and now advises the current Westminster government.
Streeting does seem to be getting some action in the English NHS, the Welsh NHS seems stuck. Jeremy Miles said there's no reason for Welsh patients to go to England. |  |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 09:58 - Jan 5 with 973 views | Whiterockin |
There is no new Labour. Labour are Labour the Conservatives are Conservatives, they always revert back to type. We need a massive change in politics throughout the UK and devolution and independence are not the answer. |  | | |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 10:13 - Jan 5 with 955 views | AnotherJohn |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 09:58 - Jan 5 by Whiterockin |
There is no new Labour. Labour are Labour the Conservatives are Conservatives, they always revert back to type. We need a massive change in politics throughout the UK and devolution and independence are not the answer. |
Agree about the last bit, but anybody with a good memory will know that key Welsh policy actors of the noughties did contrast their traditional Labour views with the New Labour policies they associated with Blair. I could point you to publications by Drakeford and another special advisor of that time - Mike Sullivan - that make that distinction. | | | |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 11:41 - Jan 5 with 882 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 09:58 - Jan 5 by Whiterockin |
There is no new Labour. Labour are Labour the Conservatives are Conservatives, they always revert back to type. We need a massive change in politics throughout the UK and devolution and independence are not the answer. |
Devo max is the first step.
Independence the second step.
Centralised Westmonster government simply ensures wales is never a priority and always an after thought.
Johnson would refer to the administration in Cardiff Bay and the administration in Edinburgh rather than use the terms Welsh Govt and Scottish Govt. For posh boy unionists its all a funny game, unfortunately for the people of Wales and Scotland it means our needs are never the priority call.
Welsh coal tips need making safe, UK govt not prepared to protect lives.
Meanwhile millions spent on bombs for foreign wars. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 11:47 - Jan 5 with 878 views | Boundy |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 11:41 - Jan 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Devo max is the first step.
Independence the second step.
Centralised Westmonster government simply ensures wales is never a priority and always an after thought.
Johnson would refer to the administration in Cardiff Bay and the administration in Edinburgh rather than use the terms Welsh Govt and Scottish Govt. For posh boy unionists its all a funny game, unfortunately for the people of Wales and Scotland it means our needs are never the priority call.
Welsh coal tips need making safe, UK govt not prepared to protect lives.
Meanwhile millions spent on bombs for foreign wars. |
A new year but the same old tired gibberish , you need a new script writer because you've become extremely boring , and I had such high hopes for you. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 11:59 - Jan 5 with 866 views | raynor94 |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 11:41 - Jan 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Devo max is the first step.
Independence the second step.
Centralised Westmonster government simply ensures wales is never a priority and always an after thought.
Johnson would refer to the administration in Cardiff Bay and the administration in Edinburgh rather than use the terms Welsh Govt and Scottish Govt. For posh boy unionists its all a funny game, unfortunately for the people of Wales and Scotland it means our needs are never the priority call.
Welsh coal tips need making safe, UK govt not prepared to protect lives.
Meanwhile millions spent on bombs for foreign wars. |
Labour have given Wales £25 million, as a first payment to remove coal tips, I think they are the UK government aren't they? |  |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 14:40 - Jan 5 with 771 views | union_jack |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 11:47 - Jan 5 by Boundy |
A new year but the same old tired gibberish , you need a new script writer because you've become extremely boring , and I had such high hopes for you. |
Did you though? Really?? |  |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 17:03 - Jan 5 with 710 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 09:58 - Jan 5 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Milburn made a fortune out of private health care and now advises the current Westminster government.
Streeting does seem to be getting some action in the English NHS, the Welsh NHS seems stuck. Jeremy Miles said there's no reason for Welsh patients to go to England. |
Jeremy Miles said there's no reason for Welsh patients to go to England.
No, absolutely no reason besides so many people waiting years for treatment and becoming despondent and even depressed by being in constant pain and suffering.
Milburn advising the current government is shocking, we can all predict the advice he gives will be of benefit to private medical suppliers including those he makes money from. He'd obviously deny that and we all know politicians never lie! | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 17:18 - Jan 5 with 700 views | onehunglow |
Welsh folk still receiving specialist treatment on Wirral and aliverpool as Wales lacks this | |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 17:56 - Jan 5 with 663 views | AnotherJohn |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 17:18 - Jan 5 by onehunglow |
Welsh folk still receiving specialist treatment on Wirral and aliverpool as Wales lacks this |
Yes, there has long been a flow of patients for some specialised tertiary care surgery, such as cardiac procedures, neuro-surgery and spinal injuries, to English centres. What has been more controversial is the use of treatment centres set up to process large numbers of routine surgical cases such as joint replacements, hernia repair and cataracts. In England, following Milburn's reforms, large number of NHS patients were channelled through private sector treatment centres of this kind, and indeed a private option was supposed to be available as part of the patient choice scheme. Welsh politicians did not like these schemes, but with waiting lists creeping up in the south, Cardiff and Vale sent large numbers of patients to one of the few NHS treatment centres in Weston Super Mare, which was based on a similar model. The centre paid European, mainly Swedish, doctors to work sessions when a string of e.g. knee replacements would be carried out. Unfortunately, the consequences were not good.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/patients-in-botched-ops-scandal-228591
Views in Wales then hardened further against this kind of solution to long waiting times.There has been some limited use of English private or NHS providers when Health Boards were under real pressure, but my sense is that any general move to the kind of arrangement that Wes Streeting is outlining will go down like a lead balloon in certain Welsh political and health service circles.
So my opening post was just predicting a bit of friction ahead between the Westminster Labour Government and Labour in the Senedd. That would be nothing new. For those who say "Labour is Labour" just take a look at Rhodri Morgan's entry on Wiki, and what happened just before and after his appointment as First Minister. [Post edited 5 Jan 19:32]
| | | |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 18:06 - Jan 5 with 642 views | Whiterockin |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 17:56 - Jan 5 by AnotherJohn |
Yes, there has long been a flow of patients for some specialised tertiary care surgery, such as cardiac procedures, neuro-surgery and spinal injuries, to English centres. What has been more controversial is the use of treatment centres set up to process large numbers of routine surgical cases such as joint replacements, hernia repair and cataracts. In England, following Milburn's reforms, large number of NHS patients were channelled through private sector treatment centres of this kind, and indeed a private option was supposed to be available as part of the patient choice scheme. Welsh politicians did not like these schemes, but with waiting lists creeping up in the south, Cardiff and Vale sent large numbers of patients to one of the few NHS treatment centres in Weston Super Mare, which was based on a similar model. The centre paid European, mainly Swedish, doctors to work sessions when a string of e.g. knee replacements would be carried out. Unfortunately, the consequences were not good.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/patients-in-botched-ops-scandal-228591
Views in Wales then hardened further against this kind of solution to long waiting times.There has been some limited use of English private or NHS providers when Health Boards were under real pressure, but my sense is that any general move to the kind of arrangement that Wes Streeting is outlining will go down like a lead balloon in certain Welsh political and health service circles.
So my opening post was just predicting a bit of friction ahead between the Westminster Labour Government and Labour in the Senedd. That would be nothing new. For those who say "Labour is Labour" just take a look at Rhodri Morgan's entry on Wiki, and what happened just before and after his appointment as First Minister. [Post edited 5 Jan 19:32]
|
Builthie would probably give a true perspective, but do people living in mid Wales need to travel to England for A&E hospitals. Not on the Aberystwyth side but East. | | | |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 18:14 - Jan 5 with 621 views | AnotherJohn |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 18:06 - Jan 5 by Whiterockin |
Builthie would probably give a true perspective, but do people living in mid Wales need to travel to England for A&E hospitals. Not on the Aberystwyth side but East. |
See here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67900980
Edit: But this is a different issue - not what Streeting is proposing for elective services. [Post edited 5 Jan 18:15]
| | | |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 18:21 - Jan 5 with 596 views | Whiterockin |
Health should not be devolved, it just adds too many complications. | | | |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 19:23 - Jan 5 with 558 views | Boundy |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 14:40 - Jan 5 by union_jack |
Did you though? Really?? |
Maybe , it is the start of a New Year and with it hope | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 19:25 - Jan 5 with 557 views | AnotherJohn |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 18:21 - Jan 5 by Whiterockin |
Health should not be devolved, it just adds too many complications. |
The flows and financing are quite complicated. See here for the types of work done across the border.
https://www.gov.wales/nhs-cross-border-care-between-wales-and-england-2024-html#
I don't think A&E attendances are included in these figures because English ICPs and Welsh Health Boards must provide A&E services for everybody present in their area irrespective of residency (non-UK nationals may be charged if admitted). I don't think there is automatically a cross-border transfer payment for each case processed, but I'd guess that a Health Board such Powys will be making an annual block contribution to reflect the regular patient flow.
The downside of devolved healthcare is that patients in different UK home countries may end up with different entitlements, that transfer payments are complicated, and that there is a tendency towards duplicating functions that could be handled at UK level. There are just a few areas that are still managed on a UK NHS basis, such as international relations including legal agreements, medicines safety, national health security and professional regulation. Rhodri Morgan, on the other hand, argued for policy divergence and said: ""Divergence is inherent in devolution… [Wales] will suit the agenda to Welsh needs and then in England they will suit the agenda to England's needs". He would be halfway into Killy's camp (Devo-Max).
Anyway, I will desist as most are bored by too much detail. | | | |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 23:03 - Jan 5 with 481 views | trampie |
The last figures for 2023/4 i seen was that there was over 7000 English residents that received hospital care in Wales, I'm surprised it's that many, also English residents registered with Welsh doctors also get free prescriptions but apparently the prescription has to be picked up from a chemist in Wales.
Also something like a quarter of the entire population of Wales was born in England and therefore get treated by the Welsh nhs, I haven't heard of the Welsh NHS refusing to treat people from England but there has been cases reported in the press that ive provided links for in the past of the English NHS refusing to treat Welsh patients and them wanting more money off us. [Post edited 5 Jan 23:17]
|  |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 05:22 - Jan 6 with 396 views | AnotherJohn |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 23:03 - Jan 5 by trampie |
The last figures for 2023/4 i seen was that there was over 7000 English residents that received hospital care in Wales, I'm surprised it's that many, also English residents registered with Welsh doctors also get free prescriptions but apparently the prescription has to be picked up from a chemist in Wales.
Also something like a quarter of the entire population of Wales was born in England and therefore get treated by the Welsh nhs, I haven't heard of the Welsh NHS refusing to treat people from England but there has been cases reported in the press that ive provided links for in the past of the English NHS refusing to treat Welsh patients and them wanting more money off us. [Post edited 5 Jan 23:17]
|
The figures are right there in the link I posted above. 7.300 English patients were admitted for FCEs in 2023/24, while there were 60,700 FCE admissions of Welsh residents to English NHS hospitals. It is possible that one admission generates more than one FCE, so Trampie may be right about actual number of admissions being a bit lower. Nearly 75% of English patients were emergency admissions, and this is probably associated with tourism. The Welsh patient pattern was different with 60% being elective admissions. | | | |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 07:55 - Jan 6 with 356 views | trampie |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 05:22 - Jan 6 by AnotherJohn |
The figures are right there in the link I posted above. 7.300 English patients were admitted for FCEs in 2023/24, while there were 60,700 FCE admissions of Welsh residents to English NHS hospitals. It is possible that one admission generates more than one FCE, so Trampie may be right about actual number of admissions being a bit lower. Nearly 75% of English patients were emergency admissions, and this is probably associated with tourism. The Welsh patient pattern was different with 60% being elective admissions. |
The point is because of English white flight tending to be older people coming to Wales it places a huge strain on the Welsh nhs, also the Welsh nhs have to provide a service to people in some places that are sparsely populated over a large area, as a generalisation it might be said that the Welsh nhs have a more difficult task than the English nhs and therefore in that light doing better than the English nhs due to the hand they have been dealt. | |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 08:35 - Jan 6 with 321 views | raynor94 |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 07:55 - Jan 6 by trampie |
The point is because of English white flight tending to be older people coming to Wales it places a huge strain on the Welsh nhs, also the Welsh nhs have to provide a service to people in some places that are sparsely populated over a large area, as a generalisation it might be said that the Welsh nhs have a more difficult task than the English nhs and therefore in that light doing better than the English nhs due to the hand they have been dealt. |
Right up there with many of your other preposterous postings.
The Welsh NHS is a total shambles, Jeremy Miles the scarlet pimpernel of the Welsh government, UK government has given Wales £21 billion settlement the largest sum in devolution history.
And look at the mess we are in, just another xenophobic post from you. | |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 08:55 - Jan 6 with 297 views | trampie |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 08:35 - Jan 6 by raynor94 |
Right up there with many of your other preposterous postings.
The Welsh NHS is a total shambles, Jeremy Miles the scarlet pimpernel of the Welsh government, UK government has given Wales £21 billion settlement the largest sum in devolution history.
And look at the mess we are in, just another xenophobic post from you. |
It is a total and utter mess but when it's all weighed up (its weighted against Welsh health boards as the demographics in Wales dont seem to be adequately taken into consideration by the UK government) the English health boards are not much better.
Some quislings on here seem to think that to criticise Wales, Welsh people, Welsh institutions is OK but to criticise UK or English institutions and the like is not as they label it racist or xenophobic, seems like the racism and xenophobia is the otherway around. [Post edited 6 Jan 9:03]
| |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 09:11 - Jan 6 with 263 views | raynor94 |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 08:55 - Jan 6 by trampie |
It is a total and utter mess but when it's all weighed up (its weighted against Welsh health boards as the demographics in Wales dont seem to be adequately taken into consideration by the UK government) the English health boards are not much better.
Some quislings on here seem to think that to criticise Wales, Welsh people, Welsh institutions is OK but to criticise UK or English institutions and the like is not as they label it racist or xenophobic, seems like the racism and xenophobia is the otherway around. [Post edited 6 Jan 9:03]
|
Quislings? Give your head a wobble, we are a United Kingdom and long may it continue. | |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 09:25 - Jan 6 with 243 views | onehunglow |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 17:56 - Jan 5 by AnotherJohn |
Yes, there has long been a flow of patients for some specialised tertiary care surgery, such as cardiac procedures, neuro-surgery and spinal injuries, to English centres. What has been more controversial is the use of treatment centres set up to process large numbers of routine surgical cases such as joint replacements, hernia repair and cataracts. In England, following Milburn's reforms, large number of NHS patients were channelled through private sector treatment centres of this kind, and indeed a private option was supposed to be available as part of the patient choice scheme. Welsh politicians did not like these schemes, but with waiting lists creeping up in the south, Cardiff and Vale sent large numbers of patients to one of the few NHS treatment centres in Weston Super Mare, which was based on a similar model. The centre paid European, mainly Swedish, doctors to work sessions when a string of e.g. knee replacements would be carried out. Unfortunately, the consequences were not good.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/patients-in-botched-ops-scandal-228591
Views in Wales then hardened further against this kind of solution to long waiting times.There has been some limited use of English private or NHS providers when Health Boards were under real pressure, but my sense is that any general move to the kind of arrangement that Wes Streeting is outlining will go down like a lead balloon in certain Welsh political and health service circles.
So my opening post was just predicting a bit of friction ahead between the Westminster Labour Government and Labour in the Senedd. That would be nothing new. For those who say "Labour is Labour" just take a look at Rhodri Morgan's entry on Wiki, and what happened just before and after his appointment as First Minister. [Post edited 5 Jan 19:32]
|
I can only report that I have countless times in the past escorted North Wales Ambiwlans from the M53 into the Tunnels for onward treatment at Alder Hey.
It still goes on .
Welsh children’s lives saved . In England .
Without this ,welsh kids die.
That simple
Should be above puerile nationalistic drivel
It’s clearly not
It’s clear many of you down there are utterly ignorant of basic facts and live in la la land | |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 09:33 - Jan 6 with 223 views | trampie |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 09:25 - Jan 6 by onehunglow |
I can only report that I have countless times in the past escorted North Wales Ambiwlans from the M53 into the Tunnels for onward treatment at Alder Hey.
It still goes on .
Welsh children’s lives saved . In England .
Without this ,welsh kids die.
That simple
Should be above puerile nationalistic drivel
It’s clearly not
It’s clear many of you down there are utterly ignorant of basic facts and live in la la land |
Thousands of English people treated by the Welsh nhs every year, as pointed out above by another poster lots of it emergency jobs and not appointments, you seem to think it's all one way. | |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 16:21 - Jan 6 with 132 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
I heard Streeting going on about using the Independent Sector today, that's his new name for Private Healthcare. | |
| |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 16:56 - Jan 6 with 124 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The revival of New Labour and clear red water on 11:47 - Jan 5 by Boundy |
A new year but the same old tired gibberish , you need a new script writer because you've become extremely boring , and I had such high hopes for you. |
Thing is, its still true see ….. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
