| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread 02:07 - Jan 3 with 13583 views | ModeratorC |
Welcome to the Luke Williams derby. The game where he will take charge of the Swans in the first half and the Baggies in the second. And then hopefully feck off with them up the M5 š
 A point gained for the Swans : Allen isnāt dead Baggies ! 4th Jan 2025 16:28Just over 14,600 attended this game at the Swansea.com. Take away the visitors support and around 13,000 Swans fans were allegedly at this game. Season ticket holders are always included whether there or not and the ground look very bare. If there was eleven thousand home fans at this game I would have been surprised. Thatās a good few thousand who have stayed away this afternoon. And well down to what we could have expected on the last Saturday before the majority return to work on Monday.  2
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:01 - Jan 5 with 779 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 11:21 - Jan 5 by Dr_Winston |
I'm not sure how many previously quite prolific forwards we're going to get through (one of whom has already become a firm fan favourite elsewhere) before people start to consider the possibility that the forwards aren't the problem. |
Cullen has the same amount of goals as Yates and Kukharevych between them this season.
Vipotnik has the same game for us every week. He doesnāt attempt to impose himself on play, shies away from physical contact, presses gamely, comes short and plays a lay off once or twice a half, usually has a shot that ādoesnāt miss by muchā and gets substituted after an hour having touched the ball 10 to 15 times.
Bianchini comes on, raw undoubtedly, but at least he puts himself about and shows a bit of desire.
Vipotnik may come good at some point and heās going to score every five or six games by virtue of being a centre forward, but his contribution so far hat been negligible. Iām sick of people blaming other players for it. | | | |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:03 - Jan 5 with 769 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 11:52 - Jan 5 by Dr_Winston |
This is precisely the problem. By the time we do get into the opponent's final third their defence has had the chance to get itself set, which is why we end up so tediously having to go back and fore between the flanks and middle.
Possession for the sake of possession just leads to boring football. Possession with intent is key, and that's where we've been falling down for most of the past four or five years. People are starting to vote with their feet at the lack of entertainment on offer. There must have been less than 10,000 there yesterday. The family stand was particularly sparsely populated because what youngster raised on Tiktok and Youtube wants to be bored out of their skull watching this? |
Unfortunately I fear it may get worse as Williams needs results so will be looking to grind these out having admitted on Friday if he doesn't deliver he will not be here | |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:06 - Jan 5 with 756 views | Whiterockin |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 11:39 - Jan 5 by Dr_Winston |
Two shots on target from nearly 60% possession so no, we quite clearly didn't create several opportunities. The one single opening Vipotnik had he flashed a shot just centimetres past the post. For the rest of the game both he (and eventually Bianchini) had nothing to work with.
The other question is why, when Cullen was having such a stinker, we didn't take him off and play both Vip and Bianchini together, something Williams seems entirely reluctant to do.
Football is a simple game but we seem determined to vastly overcomplicate it. If one of the shortest players on the pitch can head an equaliser when we finally do put a half tidy ball into the box, why do we end up spending so much time faffing about with the ball through the middle and on the edge of the area instead of trying to move the ball with more pace and intent than we do?
None of our attacking players are being well served by this dross. There was one moment in the first half where in the space of about ten seconds Grimes received the ball three times in enough space to turn and move forward yet chose to immediately pass it back where it came from each time. Any attempt to try and play with tempo or on the counter is stifled by the skipper, clearly either acting under orders or a manager too weak to stop him. [Post edited 5 Jan 12:01]
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Two shots on target out of eleven tells me we were not very good at finishing under 20% on target. League leaders Leeds yesterday had seventeen shots nine on target over 50% accuracy. It still says to me the problem is up front. |  | | |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:19 - Jan 5 with 704 views | Dr_Winston |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:06 - Jan 5 by Whiterockin |
Two shots on target out of eleven tells me we were not very good at finishing under 20% on target. League leaders Leeds yesterday had seventeen shots nine on target over 50% accuracy. It still says to me the problem is up front. |
Those shots include wild ones from outside the box though. Tymon is good at those.
If we were getting clear opportunities in the 18 yard box and missing them then I could get behind the idea that it was a striker issue, but we're not even getting the touches in the box. Never mind chances. Out of 732 total touches yesterday just fifteen were in the area. In that Leeds game it was 22 out of 519. Less possession, but they're doing more with it.
Incidentally, those successful final third passes that people keep bigging Grimes up about caught my eye. Leeds had just 47. Us? 105 in total. No doubt the majority played to someone on the flank who eventually passed it back. Racking up the stats.
Leeds get the ball forward quickly with the minumum of fuss as we found out down here. Carved us open time and again as we could not get set defensively. We give opponents as much time as they need to do it, and just end up butting our heads up against a defensive wall. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:23 - Jan 5 with 697 views | Whiterockin |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:19 - Jan 5 by Dr_Winston |
Those shots include wild ones from outside the box though. Tymon is good at those.
If we were getting clear opportunities in the 18 yard box and missing them then I could get behind the idea that it was a striker issue, but we're not even getting the touches in the box. Never mind chances. Out of 732 total touches yesterday just fifteen were in the area. In that Leeds game it was 22 out of 519. Less possession, but they're doing more with it.
Incidentally, those successful final third passes that people keep bigging Grimes up about caught my eye. Leeds had just 47. Us? 105 in total. No doubt the majority played to someone on the flank who eventually passed it back. Racking up the stats.
Leeds get the ball forward quickly with the minumum of fuss as we found out down here. Carved us open time and again as we could not get set defensively. We give opponents as much time as they need to do it, and just end up butting our heads up against a defensive wall. |
Leeds have far more pace in the team as seen when we played them, the quick ball is recovered easier. I bet if Dan James played for us he would have quick ball behind the full back. | | | |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:29 - Jan 5 with 678 views | Dr_Winston |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:23 - Jan 5 by Whiterockin |
Leeds have far more pace in the team as seen when we played them, the quick ball is recovered easier. I bet if Dan James played for us he would have quick ball behind the full back. |
The amount of times in recent games I've seen Bianchini (no slouch) make runs for passes that almost never come I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.
We're just not geared up to do things quickly. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:35 - Jan 5 with 608 views | union_jack |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:23 - Jan 5 by Whiterockin |
Leeds have far more pace in the team as seen when we played them, the quick ball is recovered easier. I bet if Dan James played for us he would have quick ball behind the full back. |
I think thatās a tad optimistic WR. Heād get sucked in to the turgid style just like the rest.
The playersā ability is one thing but many managers get a āsum of the parts is greater than the wholeā when they play a system suitable to the assets at their disposal. We donāt.
Iāve said before but in my opinion LW is a lazy coach. He doesnāt seem to work out the opposition in advance and keeps flogging the dead horse. Sometimes it comes off, sometimes it doesnāt. But with a bit of planning and tactical adjustments we could be more successful in those games. |  |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:41 - Jan 5 with 599 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 12:01 - Jan 5 by jack247 |
Cullen has the same amount of goals as Yates and Kukharevych between them this season.
Vipotnik has the same game for us every week. He doesnāt attempt to impose himself on play, shies away from physical contact, presses gamely, comes short and plays a lay off once or twice a half, usually has a shot that ādoesnāt miss by muchā and gets substituted after an hour having touched the ball 10 to 15 times.
Bianchini comes on, raw undoubtedly, but at least he puts himself about and shows a bit of desire.
Vipotnik may come good at some point and heās going to score every five or six games by virtue of being a centre forward, but his contribution so far hat been negligible. Iām sick of people blaming other players for it. |
Why buy raw | |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:44 - Jan 5 with 599 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:35 - Jan 5 by union_jack |
I think thatās a tad optimistic WR. Heād get sucked in to the turgid style just like the rest.
The playersā ability is one thing but many managers get a āsum of the parts is greater than the wholeā when they play a system suitable to the assets at their disposal. We donāt.
Iāve said before but in my opinion LW is a lazy coach. He doesnāt seem to work out the opposition in advance and keeps flogging the dead horse. Sometimes it comes off, sometimes it doesnāt. But with a bit of planning and tactical adjustments we could be more successful in those games. |
Youāre right, thereās a lot of frustration watching us and while he tweaks tactics, he doesnāt change them unless heās forced into it. Everybody knows how we are going to play.
But I keep going back to the state of our squad and the fact weāre nowhere near a relegation battle. By rights we should be in one. Results wise, weāre overachieving regardless of whether it can be a hard watch and how inconsistent we are.
I still want him out, but thatās because heās made it clear he doesnāt want to be here and will dump us the minute he gets a slightly better offer. | | | |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:47 - Jan 5 with 593 views | RichardO |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 11:52 - Jan 5 by Dr_Winston |
This is precisely the problem. By the time we do get into the opponent's final third their defence has had the chance to get itself set, which is why we end up so tediously having to go back and fore between the flanks and middle.
Possession for the sake of possession just leads to boring football. Possession with intent is key, and that's where we've been falling down for most of the past four or five years. People are starting to vote with their feet at the lack of entertainment on offer. There must have been less than 10,000 there yesterday. The family stand was particularly sparsely populated because what youngster raised on Tiktok and Youtube wants to be bored out of their skull watching this? |
What I don't understand why we are not prepared to play passes into the box when we are on the edge of it, Their defence is set up so there is little space to play in but it is too tight? We play balls in tight areas to get out of the defence often coming up short but it does work at times and yet we aren't prepared to do it up front the percentage of chances to be made and penalties to be had, even just a player taking on a defender on the edge must increase the chance of making something happen rather than knocking it pacifily across the edge.
There is an element of risk as we push players in the box but providing we have the correct cover in place similarly to most of our attacking corners the threat of counter attacks should be reduced. [Post edited 5 Jan 14:01]
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:48 - Jan 5 with 592 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:44 - Jan 5 by jack247 |
Youāre right, thereās a lot of frustration watching us and while he tweaks tactics, he doesnāt change them unless heās forced into it. Everybody knows how we are going to play.
But I keep going back to the state of our squad and the fact weāre nowhere near a relegation battle. By rights we should be in one. Results wise, weāre overachieving regardless of whether it can be a hard watch and how inconsistent we are.
I still want him out, but thatās because heās made it clear he doesnāt want to be here and will dump us the minute he gets a slightly better offer. |
Agreed
Sooner he goes the better
Heās on borrowed time
We need him out and reset | |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:52 - Jan 5 with 569 views | union_jack |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:44 - Jan 5 by jack247 |
Youāre right, thereās a lot of frustration watching us and while he tweaks tactics, he doesnāt change them unless heās forced into it. Everybody knows how we are going to play.
But I keep going back to the state of our squad and the fact weāre nowhere near a relegation battle. By rights we should be in one. Results wise, weāre overachieving regardless of whether it can be a hard watch and how inconsistent we are.
I still want him out, but thatās because heās made it clear he doesnāt want to be here and will dump us the minute he gets a slightly better offer. |
I want him out because heās not good enough. If he was good enough and wanted out Iād want him to stay. | |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:55 - Jan 5 with 562 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:52 - Jan 5 by union_jack |
I want him out because heās not good enough. If he was good enough and wanted out Iād want him to stay. |
His loss of gravitas has tumbled in just one week.
Agreed
Iām off to knit one and pearl one anyway | |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:56 - Jan 5 with 560 views | Fireboy2 |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:52 - Jan 5 by union_jack |
I want him out because heās not good enough. If he was good enough and wanted out Iād want him to stay. |
I just want him out because he's tried to manipulate a move to another club and has tried to bullish!t his way out of it. |  | | |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:04 - Jan 5 with 519 views | Boundy |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:56 - Jan 5 by Fireboy2 |
I just want him out because he's tried to manipulate a move to another club and has tried to bullish!t his way out of it. |
I wonder how long has he got before he stinks the place out ,there were still enough chanting his name and waiting around to see his fist pumps at the match yesterday to make me think there's still support outside the echelons of the Club and until that stops and turns to boos then maybe he'll be able to turn this around either way he's disrespected the Club and supporters something I find unforgivable. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the peopleānot the master." |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:07 - Jan 5 with 510 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:41 - Jan 5 by onehunglow |
Why buy raw |
Because Levein and Kaplan were holding the purse strings | | | |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:07 - Jan 5 with 507 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:04 - Jan 5 by Boundy |
I wonder how long has he got before he stinks the place out ,there were still enough chanting his name and waiting around to see his fist pumps at the match yesterday to make me think there's still support outside the echelons of the Club and until that stops and turns to boos then maybe he'll be able to turn this around either way he's disrespected the Club and supporters something I find unforgivable. |
His fall from grace has been nothing but dramatic but OHL saw this six months ago
Itās a slow train coming
Get him out
Get every vestige of Russell Martin out too
We need a reset
We need a footballing enema | |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:09 - Jan 5 with 494 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:52 - Jan 5 by union_jack |
I want him out because heās not good enough. If he was good enough and wanted out Iād want him to stay. |
Itās a results business. The results have been better than they should have given the players he has.
Whether the method behind getting those results is frustrating is a secondary consideration.
One injury and weāve got Cyrus Christie at centre back. | | | |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:16 - Jan 5 with 466 views | Boundy |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:07 - Jan 5 by onehunglow |
His fall from grace has been nothing but dramatic but OHL saw this six months ago
Itās a slow train coming
Get him out
Get every vestige of Russell Martin out too
We need a reset
We need a footballing enema |
I have to admit to wanting to give him time this due to a couple of good performances but the past weeks shenanigans by him has tipped me over in wanting him gone as soon as . he's clearly lost the players and with that any chance of much needed stability and perhaps having a decent transfer window.
We seem to go through managers as quickly as them up the road not a trait I admire or want, just hope the next manager whoever it maybe won't continue this carousel of managers we seem to be on. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the peopleānot the master." |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:18 - Jan 5 with 460 views | RichardO |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:44 - Jan 5 by jack247 |
Youāre right, thereās a lot of frustration watching us and while he tweaks tactics, he doesnāt change them unless heās forced into it. Everybody knows how we are going to play.
But I keep going back to the state of our squad and the fact weāre nowhere near a relegation battle. By rights we should be in one. Results wise, weāre overachieving regardless of whether it can be a hard watch and how inconsistent we are.
I still want him out, but thatās because heās made it clear he doesnāt want to be here and will dump us the minute he gets a slightly better offer. |
Yesterday he changed where Pearl-Harris has came into the team, putting him on for the Cullen role whose to say it didn't have the right effect on the end result, he hasn't played in there before.
Small tactical changes seem to be taking time to implement but do you really want the car crashes of Martin's choices at the back, substitutions that mean countless moving to different positions then back again.
I'm not defending William's with regards to what has happened off the field just what he is trying to do on the field with a weak squad, we are not getting the ball quick enough but we have been stuck in this rut for quick some time.
We have done it under different managers but usually leave ourselves wide open at the back, Cooper had a measure of success at the back but had problems getting the ball purposefully up top.
The midfield is not strong enough we known that for a number of years that is why we bought Downes and Franco but we need more than just one, the likes of Franco in the midfield role is not enough.
Injuries haven't helped in an attacking sense in the midfield and the same old problems exist there in the midfield defensive roles, if teams attack us we look vulnerable in the middle of the park. [Post edited 5 Jan 14:53]
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:39 - Jan 5 with 434 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:16 - Jan 5 by Boundy |
I have to admit to wanting to give him time this due to a couple of good performances but the past weeks shenanigans by him has tipped me over in wanting him gone as soon as . he's clearly lost the players and with that any chance of much needed stability and perhaps having a decent transfer window.
We seem to go through managers as quickly as them up the road not a trait I admire or want, just hope the next manager whoever it maybe won't continue this carousel of managers we seem to be on. |
Thatās ok
Wolves sacked their manager and have improved dramatically
It happens in clubs
Get him out | |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:48 - Jan 5 with 416 views | Dr_Winston |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 13:47 - Jan 5 by RichardO |
What I don't understand why we are not prepared to play passes into the box when we are on the edge of it, Their defence is set up so there is little space to play in but it is too tight? We play balls in tight areas to get out of the defence often coming up short but it does work at times and yet we aren't prepared to do it up front the percentage of chances to be made and penalties to be had, even just a player taking on a defender on the edge must increase the chance of making something happen rather than knocking it pacifily across the edge.
There is an element of risk as we push players in the box but providing we have the correct cover in place similarly to most of our attacking corners the threat of counter attacks should be reduced. [Post edited 5 Jan 14:01]
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It's partly because we don't have a player who can play those kinds of balls consistently (we've never properly replaced Paterson and Cullen for all his recent purple patch is not the answer) and partly because, as previously mentioned, by the time we're in the position to start threatening their box they've got enough players back to defend to make the job that much harder anyway.
You'd expect our main creative midfielder to step up and do it but he seems quite happy to just keep passing it from side to side, taking as little risk as possible. Risks are something that they appear to have been repetitively drilled out of taking. It makes us predictable.
Another indicator of that is how often do we leave two players up when we're defending a corner? | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 15:02 - Jan 5 with 381 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:18 - Jan 5 by RichardO |
Yesterday he changed where Pearl-Harris has came into the team, putting him on for the Cullen role whose to say it didn't have the right effect on the end result, he hasn't played in there before.
Small tactical changes seem to be taking time to implement but do you really want the car crashes of Martin's choices at the back, substitutions that mean countless moving to different positions then back again.
I'm not defending William's with regards to what has happened off the field just what he is trying to do on the field with a weak squad, we are not getting the ball quick enough but we have been stuck in this rut for quick some time.
We have done it under different managers but usually leave ourselves wide open at the back, Cooper had a measure of success at the back but had problems getting the ball purposefully up top.
The midfield is not strong enough we known that for a number of years that is why we bought Downes and Franco but we need more than just one, the likes of Franco in the midfield role is not enough.
Injuries haven't helped in an attacking sense in the midfield and the same old problems exist there in the midfield defensive roles, if teams attack us we look vulnerable in the middle of the park. [Post edited 5 Jan 14:53]
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Not at all. Iām not attacking the playing style. It can be a hard watch, but Iāll make allowances when heās clearly only got a very small group of championship level players.
Midfield, youāre absolutely right. | | | |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 15:08 - Jan 5 with 360 views | jack247 |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:07 - Jan 5 by onehunglow |
His fall from grace has been nothing but dramatic but OHL saw this six months ago
Itās a slow train coming
Get him out
Get every vestige of Russell Martin out too
We need a reset
We need a footballing enema |
Not quite. A lot of people āsuddenlyā want him out because heās pimped himself to West Brom.
He hasnāt done that without encouragement. Whether they go for him or not, West Brom have seen something they like. Maybe itās squeezing results out of weak squads with tight budgets.
Maybe you could see (slightly) bigger clubs being interested in him and him acting like a tart 6 months ago. It took me by surprise.
We had a reset and a footballing enema last season. He gave us the worst start to a season for three decades and got sacked. | | | |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 15:26 - Jan 5 with 325 views | RichardO |
| Swansea City v West Bromwich Albion : Match day thread on 14:48 - Jan 5 by Dr_Winston |
It's partly because we don't have a player who can play those kinds of balls consistently (we've never properly replaced Paterson and Cullen for all his recent purple patch is not the answer) and partly because, as previously mentioned, by the time we're in the position to start threatening their box they've got enough players back to defend to make the job that much harder anyway.
You'd expect our main creative midfielder to step up and do it but he seems quite happy to just keep passing it from side to side, taking as little risk as possible. Risks are something that they appear to have been repetitively drilled out of taking. It makes us predictable.
Another indicator of that is how often do we leave two players up when we're defending a corner? |
Would be happy to have one up top If you have the the likes of Key, Ronald and Eom in the team I think if you hold the ball clever enough they can join a counter attack quickly similar to Lowe getting onto the long ball and waiting for Key to arrive and score a cracking goal.
Especially if teams are at the bottom of the league and struggling to defend.
Remember Cundle( know you were not a fan) running at the defensive and getting into the box he made a hash of his shot and in the confusion the forward moving Cooper(again another who you have express an opinion isn't the answer) with his reaction scored even in the tight areas attacked the confusion caused meant openings we capitalised on.
Lampard's shots in and around the box because of the confusion caused by others earned him a lot of goals often deflection but they all count.
Opinions are opinions most of us try and explain our rational.
Unless you try to play the tight passes how do you know if you can play them consistently or not. We don't play them on the edge of the box that often when we do we have seen results but that might impact of a players passing stats and prove him a bad player.
William's has now said we have to be controlled in our attack but that doesn't mean we slow it down so much as to
lose any advantage we have gained. [Post edited 5 Jan 15:36]
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