| The 20MPH punishments 08:34 - Aug 3 with 137481 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well the punishment for breaking the limit,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-confirm-how-punish-drivers-
Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness. |  | | |  |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:59 - Apr 15 with 1038 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:15 - Apr 15 by Boundy |
You can't keep generalising ,the vast majority of drivers in this country are sensible ,courteous and drive within the law ,if they weren't then there would be utter carnage (there isn't).We don't all turn into the Hulk behind the wheel nor do cyclists nor pedestrians who all have a part to play in keeping them and others safe.It is an attack on motorists and I won't be convinced otherwise. |
I am not.
I speak from experience
The majority of drivers of cars believe they are “ good” drivers and ,as such,don’t like being told that actually they are not.
You can call a man a bad lover before calling him a bad driver .
That is because most drivers never ever extend their knowledge or apply basic principles,the first of which is to check your car before EVERY journey, that’s all lighting systems ,horn, tyres .
Please don’t tell me most do that .
The result is that drivers coast along in their cage believing all is well when it might not be . | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 17:25 - Apr 15 with 1025 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:48 - Apr 15 by lifelong |
3 people a day are killed or seriously injured on the roads in Wales, the vast majority being seriously injured. For a small country of 3 million people those are pretty poor stats. |
That's 0.000099% of the population. Even if you extrapolate it over the year, it's 0.0365%. Considering the millions, maybe even tens of millions of journeys taken every year, the only logical conclusion is that Welsh roads are astoundingly safe. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 17:42 - Apr 15 with 1008 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:26 - Apr 14 by onehunglow |
It’s the law,stupid if not.
Highways are just that ,highways
Trouble is millions are not fit enough to get behind a wheel.
They kill
Pedestrians do not
Incredibly ,I have read on here they are the cause of “ accidents” . No such thing as accident either. It’s why they are revered to as Road Traffic Collisions |
Hang on now, you said,
Trouble is millions are not fit enough to get behind a wheel.
They kill
Don't you think that's hyperbolic? Millions of drivers do not kill. If millions of drivers killed then millions of people would be dying from car accidents.
Pedestrians get themselves killed and injured, do you remember this,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/swansea-bus-video-hit-crossing-217
Pedestrains at a crossing who ignore the lights and cross anyway. As it turned out the woman who got hit didnn't even look up, the others started to cross and without looking up from her phone off she went and got hit by the bus.
Stupid pedestrians, stupid cyclists and stupid motorists, they are all to blame and 20mph won't change that. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:37 - Apr 15 with 967 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:42 - Apr 15 by SullutaCreturned |
Hang on now, you said,
Trouble is millions are not fit enough to get behind a wheel.
They kill
Don't you think that's hyperbolic? Millions of drivers do not kill. If millions of drivers killed then millions of people would be dying from car accidents.
Pedestrians get themselves killed and injured, do you remember this,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/swansea-bus-video-hit-crossing-217
Pedestrains at a crossing who ignore the lights and cross anyway. As it turned out the woman who got hit didnn't even look up, the others started to cross and without looking up from her phone off she went and got hit by the bus.
Stupid pedestrians, stupid cyclists and stupid motorists, they are all to blame and 20mph won't change that. |
But 20mph has made a change, for the better in a number of locations, you and others on here simply will not accept it. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:17 - Apr 15 with 941 views | max936 |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:37 - Apr 15 by lifelong |
But 20mph has made a change, for the better in a number of locations, you and others on here simply will not accept it. |
Its a pain in the arse if you spend your day driving from customer to customer. I can visit as many as 6 or more customers on any given day, was in Gowerton first thing then Pontardulais, back to Gorsenion and last job in Loughor today, lots of 20's in those journeys.
When I'm down west its even worse, when first job is a 1,1/2 hrs away, then others 30 mins away from each other, then you got over a hrs drive home, honestly its a nightmare.
Getting to bloody old for it all now!
Different if you are going shopping or off on a jolly. |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 20:34 - Apr 15 with 924 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:37 - Apr 15 by lifelong |
But 20mph has made a change, for the better in a number of locations, you and others on here simply will not accept it. |
I don't think anyone doubted that it would make a difference "in a number of locations" the majority agreed that there were places where introducing a 20 mph limit would be beneficial. What the majority in Wales are objecting too is a default speed limit where it is not beneficial. Clearly demonstrated by nearly half a million signing the petition which has worked because the Senedd have now decided to debate it. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:34 - Apr 15 with 886 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:37 - Apr 15 by lifelong |
But 20mph has made a change, for the better in a number of locations, you and others on here simply will not accept it. |
Please could you provide examples of where the change has been to the betterment of the locality. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 21:35 - Apr 15 with 885 views | majorraglan |
| The 20MPH punishments on 08:34 - Apr 15 by felixstowe_jack |
Unfortunately they never produced decent in depth statistics in the year before 20 mph was introduced so they have nothing to compare it with.
What they needed was as in depth analysis of deaths and injuries in 30 mph to include
Deaths and injuries caused by
Drug and drink driving
Dangerous driving
Excessive speeding over and above 30 mph
Deaths and injuries involving banned drivers, uninsured drivers, non licence holders and under age drivers.
Pedestrians and cyclist casualties
Motor bike casualties
Casualties in accidents where drivers were driving under legal speed limit.
Unless they have this information no one will have any idea if the 20 mph limit has any impact at all.
Things we know for sure
More pollution caused by driving in lower inefficient gears
Longer journey times
More congestion
A less efficient Welsh economy. |
I’d be pretty surprised if they didn’t have this type and level of data as local authorities would use this type of information to inform decision making around road safety initiatives, Gosafe would potentially use it for speed enforcement profiling. Used to know a few traffic cops and they use to have to put a stats form in every time they dealt with a road traffic collision where there was an injury, all that info you’ve described would be captured. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:26 - Apr 15 with 856 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:42 - Apr 15 by SullutaCreturned |
Hang on now, you said,
Trouble is millions are not fit enough to get behind a wheel.
They kill
Don't you think that's hyperbolic? Millions of drivers do not kill. If millions of drivers killed then millions of people would be dying from car accidents.
Pedestrians get themselves killed and injured, do you remember this,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/swansea-bus-video-hit-crossing-217
Pedestrains at a crossing who ignore the lights and cross anyway. As it turned out the woman who got hit didnn't even look up, the others started to cross and without looking up from her phone off she went and got hit by the bus.
Stupid pedestrians, stupid cyclists and stupid motorists, they are all to blame and 20mph won't change that. |
No I don't and which jerk up arrowed that
Millions do, really
Thought we could discuss and debate on here | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 22:33 - Apr 15 with 851 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:34 - Apr 15 by Boundy |
Please could you provide examples of where the change has been to the betterment of the locality. |
By reducing deaths, serious injuries, slight injuries and road accidents. The examples of long term studies are on this thread. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 06:03 - Apr 16 with 809 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:33 - Apr 15 by lifelong |
By reducing deaths, serious injuries, slight injuries and road accidents. The examples of long term studies are on this thread. |
But where is the evidence that the change has reduced deaths, serious injuries, slight injuries and road accidents, as you have claimed. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 07:13 - Apr 16 with 790 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:26 - Apr 15 by onehunglow |
No I don't and which jerk up arrowed that
Millions do, really
Thought we could discuss and debate on here |
We can discuss and debate. But when someone says something as laughably idiotic as "millions of drivers kill", then they're going to get pulled up on it. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 08:14 - Apr 16 with 767 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 07:13 - Apr 16 by Dr_Winston |
We can discuss and debate. But when someone says something as laughably idiotic as "millions of drivers kill", then they're going to get pulled up on it. |
We can discuss and debate .
Lovely.
In the same way a poster states pedestrians are the biggest cause of accidents .
There are 50 million with a driving licence in Great Britain.
There are 40 million licensed vehicles
There are 1000 RTCs every day
Now then, you don’t agree with 30 mph.
I’m not convinced it’s workable either
We live with 20 mph right here and nobody adheres to it but the Welsh Police are keener . [Post edited 16 Apr 8:22]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 09:09 - Apr 16 with 756 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 08:14 - Apr 16 by onehunglow |
We can discuss and debate .
Lovely.
In the same way a poster states pedestrians are the biggest cause of accidents .
There are 50 million with a driving licence in Great Britain.
There are 40 million licensed vehicles
There are 1000 RTCs every day
Now then, you don’t agree with 30 mph.
I’m not convinced it’s workable either
We live with 20 mph right here and nobody adheres to it but the Welsh Police are keener . [Post edited 16 Apr 8:22]
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Pedestrians are the biggest cause of accidents. That is a absolute fact and I have proved so using the Office for National Statistics own figures.
Thet you keep arguing against the inarguable basically puts you on the same level as flat Earthers, or 9/11 Truthers. Fit only for mockery. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 09:30 - Apr 16 with 747 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:09 - Apr 16 by Dr_Winston |
Pedestrians are the biggest cause of accidents. That is a absolute fact and I have proved so using the Office for National Statistics own figures.
Thet you keep arguing against the inarguable basically puts you on the same level as flat Earthers, or 9/11 Truthers. Fit only for mockery. |
“ The biggest cause of accidents”
Now,,as we are having a half decent debate,take another objective view of that statement and then reanalyse it.
You’re a bright man and maybe,just maybe,you can see my view.
As for mockery, really. Sone of the greatest people to have lived have been mocked as those mocking were beneath contempt .
To stand out from the crowd is not always easy and “ mockery” can be damaging so it should be used sparingly .
Now,thanks and have a genuinely lovely day
As for stats…
https://www.seriousinjurylaw.co.uk/resources/blog/5-major-causes-of-uk-road-traf
We are out to get sandblasted on our local beach [Post edited 16 Apr 9:32]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 09:36 - Apr 16 with 742 views | Whiterockin |
That is not Wales. I have driven quite a bit in Scotland including Edinburgh and Glasgow, the 20 mph restrictions are mostly in the inner city and it is not a default speed limit. [Post edited 16 Apr 9:39]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 09:44 - Apr 16 with 724 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:30 - Apr 16 by onehunglow |
“ The biggest cause of accidents”
Now,,as we are having a half decent debate,take another objective view of that statement and then reanalyse it.
You’re a bright man and maybe,just maybe,you can see my view.
As for mockery, really. Sone of the greatest people to have lived have been mocked as those mocking were beneath contempt .
To stand out from the crowd is not always easy and “ mockery” can be damaging so it should be used sparingly .
Now,thanks and have a genuinely lovely day
As for stats…
https://www.seriousinjurylaw.co.uk/resources/blog/5-major-causes-of-uk-road-traf
We are out to get sandblasted on our local beach [Post edited 16 Apr 9:32]
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So, my source of information is the ONS, whilst yours is an ambulance chasing law firm.
It's almost masochism with you isn't it? | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 09:44 - Apr 16 with 723 views | onehunglow |
Life'
What about increasing motorway limit to 80mph | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 09:47 - Apr 16 with 723 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:36 - Apr 16 by Whiterockin |
That is not Wales. I have driven quite a bit in Scotland including Edinburgh and Glasgow, the 20 mph restrictions are mostly in the inner city and it is not a default speed limit. [Post edited 16 Apr 9:39]
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I know it’s not in Wales, it might as well be in Timbaktoo because you and others just will not accept it. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:03 - Apr 16 with 719 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:47 - Apr 16 by lifelong |
I know it’s not in Wales, it might as well be in Timbaktoo because you and others just will not accept it. |
Pot, meet kettle. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 10:36 - Apr 16 with 713 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:44 - Apr 16 by onehunglow |
Life'
What about increasing motorway limit to 80mph |
With the volume of traffic on motorways these days 70 mph is fast enough. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:04 - Apr 16 with 671 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:36 - Apr 16 by lifelong |
With the volume of traffic on motorways these days 70 mph is fast enough. |
Fair point | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 18:58 - Apr 16 with 629 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:26 - Apr 15 by onehunglow |
No I don't and which jerk up arrowed that
Millions do, really
Thought we could discuss and debate on here |
I did debate and as I pointed out, MILLIONS do not kill or MILLIONS would be dying on the roads,
In reported road collisions in Great Britain in the year ending June 2023 there were an estimated:
1,633 fatalities, a decline of 9% compared to the year ending June 2022
29,429 killed or seriously injured (KSI) casualties, a decline of 1% compared to the year ending June 2022
133,443 casualties of all severities, a decline of 3% compared to the year ending June 2022
Considering the four main road user groups and demographics, the statistics show in Great Britain the year ending June 2023, compared to the year ending June 2022:
the biggest estimated percentage change for fatalities was pedal cyclists, which showed a decline of 22%
pedal cyclists had the biggest estimated percentage change for all casualties, showing a decline of 8%
77% of fatalities and 62% of casualties of all severities were male
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-in-great-brita
At those rates it would take 612 years for 1 million people to die. Hyperbole is exactly what you used. | | | |
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