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Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness.
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The 20MPH punishments on 22:25 - Nov 16 with 1671 views
I apologise if you think I insulted you or your intelligence it wasn't my intention.We both have strong opinions on the subject, for myself I seething as another planned policy to weaken the Welsh economy for what ever twisted idealogy (because for me that's exactly what it is along a myriad of other impositions imposed on us )Those in Cardiff are willing to gamble on the future of our children because by their own admission there will a financial penalty to be had for this madness,I wonder if those in Cardiff have carried out studies on the mental health of those who have no jobs ,no advancement if they do and what will our kids futures hold when it comes to obtaining meaningful employment The young are leaving Wales now because they can't find any of the above so do you belive that the potential to save ten lifes(which could be using other means) ,the impact on future investment into Wales ,the loss of tourism is worth it .
What is happening to Wales is destruction, nothing more nothing less.
It's beyond all comprehension and even the most cynical anti-devolution type would never ever have predicted what is unfolding right before our very eyes. It’s absolutely staggering and frightening to contemplate another ten years of this.
The modus operandi is to do the complete and utter opposite of what is required, what is rational, what is urgent, what is responsible, what is moral and what is sane.
It started from day one during times for example when the likes of that idiot (would not last a day in profit and loss sector!) Rhodri Morgan wanted to waste tens of millions of pounds on a superfluous Cardiff mono-rail shuttle service specifically for A.M’s with buggies, that Llew Smith described as “Noddy cars” and a complete and utter waste of money.
BBC Dragons Eye music for that particular piece epitomised what a complete and utter farce devolution well and truly is. This melody should be 'Drakefords' signiture tune for both himself and 20mph PR!
Argus!
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The 20MPH punishments on 22:29 - Nov 16 with 1666 views
It is, and always has been obvious that the 20mph limit in Wales has not been introduced for reasons of safety.
People who continue to insist to the contrary should be mocked, not apologised to.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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The 20MPH punishments on 22:57 - Nov 16 with 1638 views
The 20MPH punishments on 22:57 - Nov 16 by lifelong
Also those who say that the 20mph limit was introduced as a direct attempt to bring down the Welsh economy should be laughed at, not agreed with.
You may know differently but I haven't seen any post which declared that's what the main aim of their policy is ,but its consequence of their policy for sure .
I wonder how many lives will be indirectly lost because of this madness , ?
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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The 20MPH punishments on 12:10 - Nov 17 with 1555 views
I apologise if you think I insulted you or your intelligence it wasn't my intention.We both have strong opinions on the subject, for myself I seething as another planned policy to weaken the Welsh economy for what ever twisted idealogy (because for me that's exactly what it is along a myriad of other impositions imposed on us )Those in Cardiff are willing to gamble on the future of our children because by their own admission there will a financial penalty to be had for this madness,I wonder if those in Cardiff have carried out studies on the mental health of those who have no jobs ,no advancement if they do and what will our kids futures hold when it comes to obtaining meaningful employment The young are leaving Wales now because they can't find any of the above so do you belive that the potential to save ten lifes(which could be using other means) ,the impact on future investment into Wales ,the loss of tourism is worth it .
Maybe I misunderstood you when you said in this post that you see this policy as another planned policy to weaken the Welsh economy. There was no need for the apology, but I thought it was very decent of you to do so. I simply cannot see that the 20mph limit will have such a drastic effect on Wales and the Welsh economy. There are similar restrictions in other parts of the UK and abroad, including tourist tax, which appear to little or no adverse affect, with other countries planning such restrictions. As well as the estimated 10 lives these restrictions, if adhered to, could prevent many people being seriously injured.
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The 20MPH punishments on 17:52 - Nov 17 with 1503 views
The 20MPH punishments on 12:10 - Nov 17 by lifelong
Maybe I misunderstood you when you said in this post that you see this policy as another planned policy to weaken the Welsh economy. There was no need for the apology, but I thought it was very decent of you to do so. I simply cannot see that the 20mph limit will have such a drastic effect on Wales and the Welsh economy. There are similar restrictions in other parts of the UK and abroad, including tourist tax, which appear to little or no adverse affect, with other countries planning such restrictions. As well as the estimated 10 lives these restrictions, if adhered to, could prevent many people being seriously injured.
93 Road deaths in Wales in 2022. Only 30 of these occurred I 30mph zones. Drakeford's estimated of a 30% reduction in road deaths in the new 20 mph is not backed by any evidence. Even Drakeford said there MIGHT be upto 10 fewer deaths per year.
Wonder how many extra deaths will be caused by the extra pollution.
If Drakeford was really concerned about road deaths he would consider dualling single carriageway A roads which are the deadliest roads in Wales.
The 20MPH punishments on 20:04 - Nov 16 by lifelong
It is estimated that obesity in Wales costs he NHS £73m, smoking costs the NHS in Wales an estimated £303m, excess alcohol costs an estimated £120m. Those figures being per year. Maybe we need to be looking at reducing those costs rather than complaining about the costs of attempting to save more lives.
Well yes, those are eye watering costs but this 20mph won't save anywhere near as many lives as those medical issues cost and that was part of the point too.
They need to do something big that will have a massive effect not tinker around with small gains that just really annoys a whoe lot of people.
For example, the hospital in newport with the very latest proton beam equipment that still lays idle, ho many lives might that equipment save? How about investing in the roads infrastructure which might improve the economy, raise more money in taxes and help the economy, remember the Senedd has tax raising poers now. How about banning vapes straight off in Wales?
I'm sure other, more intelligent posters than I, could come up with some great suggestions.
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The 20MPH punishments on 18:59 - Nov 17 with 1475 views
93 Road deaths in Wales in 2022. Only 30 of these occurred I 30mph zones. Drakeford's estimated of a 30% reduction in road deaths in the new 20 mph is not backed by any evidence. Even Drakeford said there MIGHT be upto 10 fewer deaths per year.
Wonder how many extra deaths will be caused by the extra pollution.
If Drakeford was really concerned about road deaths he would consider dualling single carriageway A roads which are the deadliest roads in Wales.
This is getting very repetitive but what extra pollution are you on about?
There are a number of studies online that state driving at 20mph produces less pollution than driving at 30mph. Here’s just one of hem. Oh! and only 30 deaths in 2022 in 30mph limits, that’s a poor statistic don’t you think? That’s almost as bad as somebody comparing 10 people killed by cows over the past 10 years. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&
The 20MPH punishments on 18:59 - Nov 17 by lifelong
This is getting very repetitive but what extra pollution are you on about?
There are a number of studies online that state driving at 20mph produces less pollution than driving at 30mph. Here’s just one of hem. Oh! and only 30 deaths in 2022 in 30mph limits, that’s a poor statistic don’t you think? That’s almost as bad as somebody comparing 10 people killed by cows over the past 10 years. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&
How many people drive a ONE litre car? How many people live in an entirely flat area, doing 20 uphill in 3rd or 4th gear will see you stalling a lot.
People who have spent years driving up to 30 can't suddenly adjust to 20 without some time to adjust.
That website is hardly without bias, it's called "The Ethical Choice" so it's hardly mythbusting and the video is hardly scientific evidence either, it's little more than opinion.
Not sure why comparing deaths at 30 is a poor statistic, one of the main reasons given for lowering the limit was to save lives so how many people died at 30 is pretty relevant.
The truth about 20 is we won't know the true outcome for years. My biggest problem is that those people who cause most of the deaths, the bad and dangerous drivers, they are still out there, they are still ignoring speed limits and driving damgerously. I had one behind me the other day, I was going slowly because the van in front was but the berk behind me came shooting right up close, manouvered badly then overtook me but slowed down (for context this was on a slip road onto the M4) when we were on the motorway (he was in the outside lane) to give me hand signals and yell abuse. he probably thinks he is a great driver but he'll kill someone one day, hopefully just himself.
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The 20MPH punishments on 09:00 - Nov 18 with 1398 views
Word of caution for everybody. Just did a speed awareness course. One lady got done for 22mph in a 20 zone . I got caught on Fabian Way. It was a fair cop! One bloke was 1 mph over in the same spot. One thing I've realized and this was mentioned by the two guys running it. Is that you just can't drive now like you did in the 80s and 90s. . Watch the speed limit and leave extra time for your journey.
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The 20MPH punishments on 09:20 - Nov 18 with 1382 views
Word of caution for everybody. Just did a speed awareness course. One lady got done for 22mph in a 20 zone . I got caught on Fabian Way. It was a fair cop! One bloke was 1 mph over in the same spot. One thing I've realized and this was mentioned by the two guys running it. Is that you just can't drive now like you did in the 80s and 90s. . Watch the speed limit and leave extra time for your journey.
The woman doing 22 mph in the 20 should complain, it’s outside NPCC guidelines to prosecute at 22mph and unless I’d seen the paperwork I have to be honest I’d treat it with a pinch of salt. A few years ago one of my mates got a ticket withdrawn because he was booked by a cop doing 44 mph in a 40.
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The 20MPH punishments on 09:41 - Nov 18 with 1379 views
Word of caution for everybody. Just did a speed awareness course. One lady got done for 22mph in a 20 zone . I got caught on Fabian Way. It was a fair cop! One bloke was 1 mph over in the same spot. One thing I've realized and this was mentioned by the two guys running it. Is that you just can't drive now like you did in the 80s and 90s. . Watch the speed limit and leave extra time for your journey.
Cheers for the remainder that we're now entering a new anti motorist phase in our lives . Its aim is nothing to do with safety nor the environment its primary reason is to raise moneys for hard pressed councils. There are now 18 different types of speed cameras in this country the newest VECTOR-SR cameras do not flash and use the latest in infra-red technology that means white lines don't have to be painted on the roads they are monitoring .New cars produced now have speed limiters in their vehicles and yet road deaths have fallen dramatically year on with all manner of safety devices fitted within the vehicle. The highway code still quotes stopping distances from an era where drum brakes non abs cross ply tyres were ever present. If this money raised was used to improve our transport links and bring them up to a standard worthy of the 21st century then great but no that would go against everything the left and Drakeford & co believes in ,, the very people who are chauffeured around the country preaching to everyone else Car tax raise, Insurance costs doubling High fuel prices Ulez schemes ( they're coming to a Welsh town near you. Toll roads is the next phase of their master plan , The two taking the speed awareness course were right about one thing , its definitely not the 90's , more like Orwells 1984
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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The 20MPH punishments on 11:55 - Nov 18 with 1352 views
Word of caution for everybody. Just did a speed awareness course. One lady got done for 22mph in a 20 zone . I got caught on Fabian Way. It was a fair cop! One bloke was 1 mph over in the same spot. One thing I've realized and this was mentioned by the two guys running it. Is that you just can't drive now like you did in the 80s and 90s. . Watch the speed limit and leave extra time for your journey.
I'd be interested to know what the speedo said because if they said she was doing 22 her speedo was likley to be showing 25/26.
Whenever I go past on of those warning signs doing bang on 20, it shows 16/17mph.
If the womans speedo was shoing 22 then she was most likely under the speed limit.
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The 20MPH punishments on 12:00 - Nov 18 with 1349 views
Cheers for the remainder that we're now entering a new anti motorist phase in our lives . Its aim is nothing to do with safety nor the environment its primary reason is to raise moneys for hard pressed councils. There are now 18 different types of speed cameras in this country the newest VECTOR-SR cameras do not flash and use the latest in infra-red technology that means white lines don't have to be painted on the roads they are monitoring .New cars produced now have speed limiters in their vehicles and yet road deaths have fallen dramatically year on with all manner of safety devices fitted within the vehicle. The highway code still quotes stopping distances from an era where drum brakes non abs cross ply tyres were ever present. If this money raised was used to improve our transport links and bring them up to a standard worthy of the 21st century then great but no that would go against everything the left and Drakeford & co believes in ,, the very people who are chauffeured around the country preaching to everyone else Car tax raise, Insurance costs doubling High fuel prices Ulez schemes ( they're coming to a Welsh town near you. Toll roads is the next phase of their master plan , The two taking the speed awareness course were right about one thing , its definitely not the 90's , more like Orwells 1984
Labour will up the ante on the motorist . That much is clear Motorists are an easy touch because few would willingly give up their car and go public transport. Imagine relying on the rail network or local buses, Taking cars away from people puts them under the power of Union run rail and bus networks .
Cheers for the remainder that we're now entering a new anti motorist phase in our lives . Its aim is nothing to do with safety nor the environment its primary reason is to raise moneys for hard pressed councils. There are now 18 different types of speed cameras in this country the newest VECTOR-SR cameras do not flash and use the latest in infra-red technology that means white lines don't have to be painted on the roads they are monitoring .New cars produced now have speed limiters in their vehicles and yet road deaths have fallen dramatically year on with all manner of safety devices fitted within the vehicle. The highway code still quotes stopping distances from an era where drum brakes non abs cross ply tyres were ever present. If this money raised was used to improve our transport links and bring them up to a standard worthy of the 21st century then great but no that would go against everything the left and Drakeford & co believes in ,, the very people who are chauffeured around the country preaching to everyone else Car tax raise, Insurance costs doubling High fuel prices Ulez schemes ( they're coming to a Welsh town near you. Toll roads is the next phase of their master plan , The two taking the speed awareness course were right about one thing , its definitely not the 90's , more like Orwells 1984
Worse than that, big brother is watching you inside your car.
Cheers for the remainder that we're now entering a new anti motorist phase in our lives . Its aim is nothing to do with safety nor the environment its primary reason is to raise moneys for hard pressed councils. There are now 18 different types of speed cameras in this country the newest VECTOR-SR cameras do not flash and use the latest in infra-red technology that means white lines don't have to be painted on the roads they are monitoring .New cars produced now have speed limiters in their vehicles and yet road deaths have fallen dramatically year on with all manner of safety devices fitted within the vehicle. The highway code still quotes stopping distances from an era where drum brakes non abs cross ply tyres were ever present. If this money raised was used to improve our transport links and bring them up to a standard worthy of the 21st century then great but no that would go against everything the left and Drakeford & co believes in ,, the very people who are chauffeured around the country preaching to everyone else Car tax raise, Insurance costs doubling High fuel prices Ulez schemes ( they're coming to a Welsh town near you. Toll roads is the next phase of their master plan , The two taking the speed awareness course were right about one thing , its definitely not the 90's , more like Orwells 1984
In terms of speeding fines, the money doesn’t go to the councils coffers. The money from speed awareness courses goes to the Road Safety Partnership and is used to pay for road safety improvements, traffic calming and all that kind of stuff. The money from the fines for fixed penalty points on your driving licence doesn’t go anywhere near councils, it all goes straight to the Westminster government. It used to be the same with parking tickets, but slowly individual councils decriminalised the process and took over enforcement.
I’m not disagreeing with the other points you made though.
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The 20MPH punishments on 10:20 - Nov 19 with 1088 views
The 20MPH punishments on 17:55 - Nov 18 by majorraglan
In terms of speeding fines, the money doesn’t go to the councils coffers. The money from speed awareness courses goes to the Road Safety Partnership and is used to pay for road safety improvements, traffic calming and all that kind of stuff. The money from the fines for fixed penalty points on your driving licence doesn’t go anywhere near councils, it all goes straight to the Westminster government. It used to be the same with parking tickets, but slowly individual councils decriminalised the process and took over enforcement.
I’m not disagreeing with the other points you made though.
The problem is, there all the parties seem to favour the same policies. Cons, labour, Plaid, all support the war on motorists
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The 20MPH punishments on 14:04 - Nov 19 with 1042 views
ULEZ and similar schemes are part of the crackdown on motorists, but policy makers don't always seem to factor in unintended consequences. It is reported that the London Ambulance Service is going to have to lay out almost £65 million to make its vehicles compliant.
The 20MPH punishments on 14:04 - Nov 19 by AnotherJohn
ULEZ and similar schemes are part of the crackdown on motorists, but policy makers don't always seem to factor in unintended consequences. It is reported that the London Ambulance Service is going to have to lay out almost £65 million to make its vehicles compliant.
The 20MPH punishments on 14:04 - Nov 19 by AnotherJohn
ULEZ and similar schemes are part of the crackdown on motorists, but policy makers don't always seem to factor in unintended consequences. It is reported that the London Ambulance Service is going to have to lay out almost £65 million to make its vehicles compliant.
I've seen that term "cracking down on motorists " quite a bit lately, just what have we as a volleying done exactly to warrant this relentless war against those of us who drive cars , we can't go anywhere without a camera picking up whether the vehicles mot's, taxed or insured , speed limits now imposed on new roads ,no new roads to be built ,the state of the roads coditions is an embarrassment to a so called modern society. I drive an old diesel car which has all of the above , it's serviced regularly, repaired when required ,recently passed another MOT with no advisores including an emissions test. My car tax is £300 , monthly fuel bill £90. I have clean license no points ever, I've been fortunate not to ever claim on my insurance in over 40+ years yet despite that my insurance will double on its next renewal ,now I have to plod along at sub 20mph for the pleasure of getting to A to B .I never ever thought I'd ever say this but I'm beginning to hate the country I live in
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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The 20MPH punishments on 14:31 - Nov 19 with 1011 views
I've seen that term "cracking down on motorists " quite a bit lately, just what have we as a volleying done exactly to warrant this relentless war against those of us who drive cars , we can't go anywhere without a camera picking up whether the vehicles mot's, taxed or insured , speed limits now imposed on new roads ,no new roads to be built ,the state of the roads coditions is an embarrassment to a so called modern society. I drive an old diesel car which has all of the above , it's serviced regularly, repaired when required ,recently passed another MOT with no advisores including an emissions test. My car tax is £300 , monthly fuel bill £90. I have clean license no points ever, I've been fortunate not to ever claim on my insurance in over 40+ years yet despite that my insurance will double on its next renewal ,now I have to plod along at sub 20mph for the pleasure of getting to A to B .I never ever thought I'd ever say this but I'm beginning to hate the country I live in
I’ve been on the roads since 1966. It’s always been thus Motorists complain but do nothing Easy target for money
The 20MPH punishments on 14:18 - Nov 19 by JACKMANANDBOY
I would have expected emergency vehicles to be exempt and upgraded at replacement?
That would seem to me to be the sensible, pragmatic approach, but it isn't the one taken. It seems that TfL has an MoU with each of the three emergency services - police, fire service and ambulance service - that requires all their vehicles to be compliant by 2025.
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