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-£4m of Eze add ons more likely than not to have been triggered or will be during the season (some already has England cap known part) - £500k World Cup money -£700k Dickie money
That leaves £4.8m to save
- Balogun, Johansen, Dickie, Lowe, Bonne, Roberts, Laird, Masterson, Thomas, Shodipo, Amos, 80k weekly salary's off the wage bill at a low estimate. That's £4.2m off the wage bill
Leaves £600k to save
Likely departures to come: Dykes, Willock and Chair. All significant wages (combined £50k a week at v low estimate). Low ball guess £2.6m off the wage bill
That puts us £2m in the black without including their transfer fees. Dykes/Willock sale can expect £5m easily. Chair at a very low, daylight robbery estimate £8m
That gives us a budget of £15m to put together the replacements. With no transfer fees and going free transfer route only that's £288,000 a week of wages to put together our replacements
Any fees adjust accordingly
Then after this season the £25m loss of 21/22 drops off. The new tv deal kicks in and we have a load of head room to spend much more
Eze sale 20% a bonus wish then as well
The numbers don't support your pessimism.
I do get the psychological reflex you have though to assume we are doomed!!!
As they say “it’s the hope that kills you”. So your strategy is to have no hope so you can’t be ‘killed’. Maybe that’s wise but I think you’re over doing it
EDIT I forgot Dieng as well. Fee likely to come there as well and wages also factored in
[Post edited 19 Jun 2023 21:07]
I love Ilias Chair as much as anyone on here, but there's no way anyone is going to offer us anything like 8 million for him.
Second article ( after Dickie) where WLS seem to have gone to pains to state players not suited to Gazza/ Dobbo hoofball…. Can we assume they are not fans?
Second article ( after Dickie) where WLS seem to have gone to pains to state players not suited to Gazza/ Dobbo hoofball…. Can we assume they are not fans?
Surely it’s based upon what we’ve all seen during Ainsworth’s stint as manager. Midfield completely bypassed by direct football. We had a midfielder who didn’t complete a pass during 60 mins on the pitch.
No chance of playing modern football then with or without Ainsworth
Agree. The players leaving are not going to be replaced like for like as there is no money. My issue with Ainsworth (based on his time at Wycombe), is that there will be no attempt to play football. In 10 years there, football wise they did not become easy on the eye. Effective, yes, entertaining no. That's fine if you successful, which Wyconbe were, but we are such a basket case if we are not doing well then the crowd will turn.
Warburtons first season, was in hindsight, a missed opportunity, but the football was fun to watch, with modern football attempted to be played. That's all you can ask for really.
Surely it’s based upon what we’ve all seen during Ainsworth’s stint as manager. Midfield completely bypassed by direct football. We had a midfielder who didn’t complete a pass during 60 mins on the pitch.
[Post edited 20 Jun 2023 4:34]
Johansen was poor under all three managers last season: he’s been released as his fitness has been an issue for ages and he played poorly when in the team. Can’t believe anyone is unhappy we have saved some money by terminating the contract of probably our highest earning but ineffective player.
-£4m of Eze add ons more likely than not to have been triggered or will be during the season (some already has England cap known part) - £500k World Cup money -£700k Dickie money
That leaves £4.8m to save
- Balogun, Johansen, Dickie, Lowe, Bonne, Roberts, Laird, Masterson, Thomas, Shodipo, Amos, 80k weekly salary's off the wage bill at a low estimate. That's £4.2m off the wage bill
Leaves £600k to save
Likely departures to come: Dykes, Willock and Chair. All significant wages (combined £50k a week at v low estimate). Low ball guess £2.6m off the wage bill
That puts us £2m in the black without including their transfer fees. Dykes/Willock sale can expect £5m easily. Chair at a very low, daylight robbery estimate £8m
That gives us a budget of £15m to put together the replacements. With no transfer fees and going free transfer route only that's £288,000 a week of wages to put together our replacements
Any fees adjust accordingly
Then after this season the £25m loss of 21/22 drops off. The new tv deal kicks in and we have a load of head room to spend much more
Eze sale 20% a bonus wish then as well
The numbers don't support your pessimism.
I do get the psychological reflex you have though to assume we are doomed!!!
As they say “it’s the hope that kills you”. So your strategy is to have no hope so you can’t be ‘killed’. Maybe that’s wise but I think you’re over doing it
EDIT I forgot Dieng as well. Fee likely to come there as well and wages also factored in
[Post edited 19 Jun 2023 21:07]
"Then after this season the £25m loss of 21/22 drops off."
This is not true.
The £25m loss is our latest set of reported accounts. It does not drop out of the three-year reporting cycle until we've reported three more sets of accounts and there's a lag because your accounts for the season don't come out until February the following season - so it will drop out only after we've reported Feb 24 (for season 22/23), Feb 25 (23/24) and Feb 26 (24/25).
The £4.5m loss accounts boosted by the Eze sale, on the other hand, roll out a year earlier than that.
At the moment our three year cycle is 19/20 (lost £16m), 20/21 (lost £4.5m), 21/22 (lost £25m). So the next thing to drop off is 19/20, to be replaced by whatever we spent in the disastrous season we've just had 22/23. That happens this coming February.
Then in February 25 is where you potentially have the issue because the £4.5m loss rolls out leaving behind the 21/22 £25m loss, 22/23 and the forthcoming 23/24 season. Which is why there is going to be precious little budget for 23/24 without significant money received for players, because the £25m remains in the cycle but the Eze sale does not.
The new TV deal starts in 24/25 therefore won't see that appear in our accounts until February 2026 - three sets of accounts from now.
Surely it’s based upon what we’ve all seen during Ainsworth’s stint as manager. Midfield completely bypassed by direct football. We had a midfielder who didn’t complete a pass during 60 mins on the pitch.
Second article ( after Dickie) where WLS seem to have gone to pains to state players not suited to Gazza/ Dobbo hoofball…. Can we assume they are not fans?
It's not about being fans of his they are just reporting on what's happening
"Then after this season the £25m loss of 21/22 drops off."
This is not true.
The £25m loss is our latest set of reported accounts. It does not drop out of the three-year reporting cycle until we've reported three more sets of accounts and there's a lag because your accounts for the season don't come out until February the following season - so it will drop out only after we've reported Feb 24 (for season 22/23), Feb 25 (23/24) and Feb 26 (24/25).
The £4.5m loss accounts boosted by the Eze sale, on the other hand, roll out a year earlier than that.
At the moment our three year cycle is 19/20 (lost £16m), 20/21 (lost £4.5m), 21/22 (lost £25m). So the next thing to drop off is 19/20, to be replaced by whatever we spent in the disastrous season we've just had 22/23. That happens this coming February.
Then in February 25 is where you potentially have the issue because the £4.5m loss rolls out leaving behind the 21/22 £25m loss, 22/23 and the forthcoming 23/24 season. Which is why there is going to be precious little budget for 23/24 without significant money received for players, because the £25m remains in the cycle but the Eze sale does not.
The new TV deal starts in 24/25 therefore won't see that appear in our accounts until February 2026 - three sets of accounts from now.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Of course it is true to say after this season the £25m loss of 21/22 drops off
Because we are looking a year ahead when the club handles its budgets. So after this season what matters is 22/23, 23/24 then next summer we will spend accordingly to our 24/25 budget
You are looking at this the wrong way round. Remember the club always know what the accounts were and to copy and paste a post I made on previous thread on this:
We are allowed £39m loss across three years.
20/21 - we know we lost £4.1m 21/22- we know we lost £24.7m 22/23- we can lose then £10.1m. So assume that happened as I don't think anyone believes we are going to fail FFP at the next set of accounts released
21/22- we lost £24.7m 22/23- we can assume lost at a maximum £10.1m. 23/24- we can lose £4.2m
Those are the figures unless you think the club have already failed FFP for our actions last season. It was off these figures that Simon Dorset came to the conclusion we need to make around £10m of savings from last year to this year
Don't get lost on when things are reported. The TV money kicks in next season. So while it is reported later it will be factored into our budgeting next season and the 21/22 season will drop out because that will be 4 seasons ago by then
Not being one to change the negative vibe of the thread but I am intrigued now - I for one would like to judge a fish at archery - however I would like to know would it be long bow or cross bow?
Johansen was poor under all three managers last season: he’s been released as his fitness has been an issue for ages and he played poorly when in the team. Can’t believe anyone is unhappy we have saved some money by terminating the contract of probably our highest earning but ineffective player.
Yeah yeah yeah fine - but it doesn't fit some people's anti-Ainsworth agenda.
Players still here who played minutes last season..
Dieng
drewe kakay jcs dunne paal Nico
Adomah Chair dozzell field Richards EDB
Armstrong dykes willock
Wow when it's put in print like that you can see the mammoth job Ainsworth has to do to rebuild the squad, as Clive says it was always going to happen once we had released players from contracts and loans. As for Johansen the club has made a very smart decision, his inclusion in the squad would have been a noose round our neck, it was very apparent last season that his fitness and stamina was completely shot and his excessive wage would stop us making the signings we need.
Time and again last season we were out run and out fought in nearly every area of the pitch, if you use the Coventry game as an example, we just couldn't get near them or keep up with them, that was so much down to fitness and having the right players in the squad, we lacked pace big time when attacking, again that was down to not having players with the available skill sets.
Basically that squad list that's now left with Ainsworth is shocking and Ferdinand had to take responsibility for that situation, he's done the decent thing and resigned. As for Ainsworth can we please just give him a chance, he inherited a complete sack of s*it and very gradually managed to turn it around, it wasn't pretty but he achieved the results and doesn't appear to be being given any credit for that fact. He knows the deficiencies in that squad, we need players who can compete for 90 plus minutes and some pace up front, teams like Luton, Millwall and Coventry have achieved a lot with low budgets and getting the right players in your squad.
There's a long way to go before the start of the season, let's see what the squad looks like at the start of the season, it's going to be very tough and probably a relegation scrap, but then as I said before Ferdinand has to take the blame for this mess rather than coming out with the rubbish in the press that he can't agree with Ainsworth on transfer targets, yeah mate taking scouting trips to Colombia when we haven't got a pot to pee in doesn't seem very smart
Wow when it's put in print like that you can see the mammoth job Ainsworth has to do to rebuild the squad, as Clive says it was always going to happen once we had released players from contracts and loans. As for Johansen the club has made a very smart decision, his inclusion in the squad would have been a noose round our neck, it was very apparent last season that his fitness and stamina was completely shot and his excessive wage would stop us making the signings we need.
Time and again last season we were out run and out fought in nearly every area of the pitch, if you use the Coventry game as an example, we just couldn't get near them or keep up with them, that was so much down to fitness and having the right players in the squad, we lacked pace big time when attacking, again that was down to not having players with the available skill sets.
Basically that squad list that's now left with Ainsworth is shocking and Ferdinand had to take responsibility for that situation, he's done the decent thing and resigned. As for Ainsworth can we please just give him a chance, he inherited a complete sack of s*it and very gradually managed to turn it around, it wasn't pretty but he achieved the results and doesn't appear to be being given any credit for that fact. He knows the deficiencies in that squad, we need players who can compete for 90 plus minutes and some pace up front, teams like Luton, Millwall and Coventry have achieved a lot with low budgets and getting the right players in your squad.
There's a long way to go before the start of the season, let's see what the squad looks like at the start of the season, it's going to be very tough and probably a relegation scrap, but then as I said before Ferdinand has to take the blame for this mess rather than coming out with the rubbish in the press that he can't agree with Ainsworth on transfer targets, yeah mate taking scouting trips to Colombia when we haven't got a pot to pee in doesn't seem very smart
"Wow when it's put in print like that you can see the mammoth job Ainsworth has to do to rebuild the squad"
I would bet that Ainsworth and Dobson are relishing that as as an opportunity to reshape the (dismal) squad of last season.
I still remain confident that GA&RD will do well -if they're given time. That is the big unknown though.
People were talking about Les being sensitive to criticism. You can magnify that with the board. If the pitchfork types are out in November, I doubt they'll stick to their guns. Again.
Well looks like GA is going to have the chance to get his type of players in this window now.
Johansen didn't have the legs or personality to be an Ainsworth type player. Another year older I think he would have suited us even less
We conceded a ridiculously high amount of goals last season and Johansen for the rare occasions he was fit takes a portion of the blame as he couldn’t get about the pitch enough
Also seems an odd statement to say Chair was "stuck out of the way". He really contributed in key games like Burnley and WBA and was it the Blackburn game back in Feb he was playing brilliantly and then had to go off injured well before half time
If Beale or Warburton had arrived late in a season going as badly as last season and inherited Ainsworth type players. They might have struggled more than otherwise have expected as well
Let's say that's £10,000 a week minimum saved off the wage bill (probably much more but allowing conservatively for a pay off) that's another £500,000 saved.
Not much further to go to meet FFP this year and still have a nice budget for replacing those who have left this summer
How do you know there's 'not much further to go to meet FFP'. Do you know something about our finances nobody else does? Where is this nice budget for this season coming from?
"Wow when it's put in print like that you can see the mammoth job Ainsworth has to do to rebuild the squad"
I would bet that Ainsworth and Dobson are relishing that as as an opportunity to reshape the (dismal) squad of last season.
I still remain confident that GA&RD will do well -if they're given time. That is the big unknown though.
People were talking about Les being sensitive to criticism. You can magnify that with the board. If the pitchfork types are out in November, I doubt they'll stick to their guns. Again.
Yeh the debate is whether you want GA in charge of overseeing that, what image it's going to be done in, what happens if they sack him midway through the season, and how much money they've got to spend on doing it (I think not much, Sakura thinks loads and loads).
There is no debate this needed doing. That squad is broken, and done, and weak. A massive overhaul was definitely needed.
It's going to be very interesting, to say the least, what our team and squad looks like by the end of August.
Of course it is true to say after this season the £25m loss of 21/22 drops off
Because we are looking a year ahead when the club handles its budgets. So after this season what matters is 22/23, 23/24 then next summer we will spend accordingly to our 24/25 budget
You are looking at this the wrong way round. Remember the club always know what the accounts were and to copy and paste a post I made on previous thread on this:
We are allowed £39m loss across three years.
20/21 - we know we lost £4.1m 21/22- we know we lost £24.7m 22/23- we can lose then £10.1m. So assume that happened as I don't think anyone believes we are going to fail FFP at the next set of accounts released
21/22- we lost £24.7m 22/23- we can assume lost at a maximum £10.1m. 23/24- we can lose £4.2m
Those are the figures unless you think the club have already failed FFP for our actions last season. It was off these figures that Simon Dorset came to the conclusion we need to make around £10m of savings from last year to this year
Don't get lost on when things are reported. The TV money kicks in next season. So while it is reported later it will be factored into our budgeting next season and the 21/22 season will drop out because that will be 4 seasons ago by then
Haven't you just highlighted the exact problem Clive is talking about?
By your own calculations in 23/24 we can only lose £4.2m. That is going to be extremely hard for us to do, even with new TV money. So while we can technically get away with a £10m loss this year, we create a bigger rod for ourselves in 23/24.
Fundamentally, whichever way you look at it there is a very limited budget and we shouldn't be aiming to make the biggest loss we're allowed to each year, especially given that will just cause more pain down the road.
Haven't you just highlighted the exact problem Clive is talking about?
By your own calculations in 23/24 we can only lose £4.2m. That is going to be extremely hard for us to do, even with new TV money. So while we can technically get away with a £10m loss this year, we create a bigger rod for ourselves in 23/24.
Fundamentally, whichever way you look at it there is a very limited budget and we shouldn't be aiming to make the biggest loss we're allowed to each year, especially given that will just cause more pain down the road.
[Post edited 20 Jun 2023 12:51]
Thank you. Getting from losing £25m to losing £4m in a couple of seasons requires extreme cut backs and is incredibly difficult to do while maintaining some sort of squad standard. If it was as easy as is being made out, we'd just have done it anyway wouldn't we? I can't imagine the owners want to lose £25m on a team with Andre Gray up front. We've only managed it once recently, and we did that only by selling a player for £16m+£4m. So unless we make another significant sale, it's going to be difficult and the budget is going to be tight.
Lee Hoos did do an interview only a month or so ago saying that we were “absolutely fine” with FFP.
[Post edited 20 Jun 2023 11:06]
TBF when I asked in interview if we'd "pushed the boat out" in 21/22 at the time he said "absolutely not the boat is exactly where it should be" and then when the accounts came out we'd lost £25m.
I would be surprised if we breached FFP under him. He's basically hung his whole reason for being on that never happening again here. But, again, it's clear that with that £25m loss on the three year reporting cycle we are going to have to have a couple of substantially tighter/leaner seasons, the most tight and lean of which is probably the one we've got coming up. Unfortunately it's coincided with the squad needing to be blown up and started over again.
TBF when I asked in interview if we'd "pushed the boat out" in 21/22 at the time he said "absolutely not the boat is exactly where it should be" and then when the accounts came out we'd lost £25m.
I would be surprised if we breached FFP under him. He's basically hung his whole reason for being on that never happening again here. But, again, it's clear that with that £25m loss on the three year reporting cycle we are going to have to have a couple of substantially tighter/leaner seasons, the most tight and lean of which is probably the one we've got coming up. Unfortunately it's coincided with the squad needing to be blown up and started over again.
Yeh Hoos can be a bit vague about things sometimes but I’ve never known him to outright lie. I trust him with our finances. I very much doubt that the £25m loss is down to him, more likely our excitable owners having a bit of a splash.
I’m not sure about Ainsworth being in charge of turning this around either but a tight budget at QPR is still probably more than he’s ever had before.
Yeh Hoos can be a bit vague about things sometimes but I’ve never known him to outright lie. I trust him with our finances. I very much doubt that the £25m loss is down to him, more likely our excitable owners having a bit of a splash.
I’m not sure about Ainsworth being in charge of turning this around either but a tight budget at QPR is still probably more than he’s ever had before.
Which is one of the more logical reasons why they've gone for him. Team needs rebuild, little money to do it, exactly as you say he's used to that.
I liked StefJo, but he was an increasingly difficult watch, and I think the club have done well to get out of the deal. People may laugh but the PR bit is important as it shows other players we're not a club that tosses you under the bus
I liked StefJo, but he was an increasingly difficult watch, and I think the club have done well to get out of the deal. People may laugh but the PR bit is important as it shows other players we're not a club that tosses you under the bus
loads of clubs are dumping excess players and loads of players wont be getting close to what they think they are worth , yes it wont be pretty but as has been said numerous times possesion dosnt always win you games , it might noit be pretty to watch but think whith the right players coming in we should be ok hopefully .
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