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Looks increasingly like the Tories will lose over a thousand seats which would be worse than the number they put out as the worst case scenario and for expectation managment.
This follows an equally poor performance in 2019. There is a difference between the two in that Labour aslo perfomed pretty poorly in 2019.
I reckon this is partly due to Starmer replacing Corbyn but more that not being able to afford your weekly shop or get a GP appointment is more important to people than childish woke culture wars and being nasty to immigrants.
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English council elections on 10:28 - May 6 with 1160 views
English council elections on 22:00 - May 5 by Gwyn737
I think a hung parliament is probably favourite at the moment.
Long term I think there’s a change coming as young people grow up poorer. Historically people move to the right with age, for reasons better put by Stuart Lee:
This won’t necessarily be the case going forward.
Y'know, I grew up poorer than my son is. It's all relative.
My sons early years didn't have an outside toilet, he didn't bath in a metal tub in front of a coal fire. He's never had hand-ne-down clothes or football boots and the only time he's gone without anything is when he's being punished. He's got more money in the bank at 14 than I had when I was 24 and had been working for 7 years.
A lot of the things he has didn't exist when I was young, that makes a big difference I guess but todays hard up kids (I generalise but for many it's true) feel hard up when they haven't got the latest console or game, when they haven't got the new smartphone or £150 trainers.
I have deinitely moved to the right but that's put me in the centre, mostly. For me the big difference in Tory and Labour is one makes all of us poor out of an ideology but the other makes us poorer because its helping the rich to get richer, which includes them. Though many Labour MP's are themselves rich.
I think things are already bad enough that Labour could win a majority but that the tories may do things to sway the not so bright such as the inevitable headline tax giveaway just before the election. Here in Wales, of course, it doesn't matter what Labour do. They'll win anyway. Scotland may provide a few shocks next time though.
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English council elections on 10:41 - May 6 with 1128 views
Y'know, I grew up poorer than my son is. It's all relative.
My sons early years didn't have an outside toilet, he didn't bath in a metal tub in front of a coal fire. He's never had hand-ne-down clothes or football boots and the only time he's gone without anything is when he's being punished. He's got more money in the bank at 14 than I had when I was 24 and had been working for 7 years.
A lot of the things he has didn't exist when I was young, that makes a big difference I guess but todays hard up kids (I generalise but for many it's true) feel hard up when they haven't got the latest console or game, when they haven't got the new smartphone or £150 trainers.
I have deinitely moved to the right but that's put me in the centre, mostly. For me the big difference in Tory and Labour is one makes all of us poor out of an ideology but the other makes us poorer because its helping the rich to get richer, which includes them. Though many Labour MP's are themselves rich.
I think things are already bad enough that Labour could win a majority but that the tories may do things to sway the not so bright such as the inevitable headline tax giveaway just before the election. Here in Wales, of course, it doesn't matter what Labour do. They'll win anyway. Scotland may provide a few shocks next time though.
Same for me Cat but we’ll be the last generation for a while that can be the bank of Mum and Dad (I’m generalising of course).
Yes, I agree there’s more around for kids today but there are a number of big things that are harder.
We had:
-affordable housing -well paid non-graduate jobs -free further education (including grants) -access to mortgages -NHS dentists -access to GPs -tighter family units to help with childcare
I’m not making a political point with this, it’s about how time has moved on and in many cases, not necessarily to the better.
By the way, how old are you that you had a tin bath in front of fire? 🤣.
We didn’t have central heating until I was 17 (coal fires) but we did have plumbing!
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English council elections on 11:02 - May 6 with 1113 views
Looks like there’s already briefing coming from Boris’s supporter base dissing Rishi Sunak and that he has to own this etc etc. From where I’m standing, the country is in a mess, but Sunak has more integrity than Boris who is loathed by a much greater number of the general population than Sunak is.
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English council elections on 11:11 - May 6 with 1092 views
English council elections on 11:02 - May 6 by majorraglan
Looks like there’s already briefing coming from Boris’s supporter base dissing Rishi Sunak and that he has to own this etc etc. From where I’m standing, the country is in a mess, but Sunak has more integrity than Boris who is loathed by a much greater number of the general population than Sunak is.
You would be amazed how much support Boris still has in England. I can't understand why but its there.
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English council elections on 12:02 - May 6 with 1045 views
English council elections on 11:11 - May 6 by Whiterockin
You would be amazed how much support Boris still has in England. I can't understand why but its there.
Thats true.
I guess Johnson needs to remember that 57 of his own ministers resigned to force him out. And partygate cut through to the masses.
If he tries to return, it will after a Starmer government.
A new book claims ….. ‘it eventually led to this extraordinary outburst from Johnson: “I am meant to be in control. I am the führer. I’m the king who takes the decisions.”. 🤡 wtf ?
Beware of the Risen People
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English council elections on 12:29 - May 6 with 1021 views
English council elections on 11:11 - May 6 by Whiterockin
You would be amazed how much support Boris still has in England. I can't understand why but its there.
Partly because they managed spin the story to that Johnson was kicked out for having a beer in the garden during Covid.
What actually happened was all his ministers resigned when asked to defend his fib that he didn’t know that he appointed a known groper to the position of chief whip when he obviously did.
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English council elections on 12:40 - May 6 with 1006 views
English council elections on 12:29 - May 6 by Gwyn737
Partly because they managed spin the story to that Johnson was kicked out for having a beer in the garden during Covid.
What actually happened was all his ministers resigned when asked to defend his fib that he didn’t know that he appointed a known groper to the position of chief whip when he obviously did.
I wasn't defending him, just saying you would be surprised how much personal support he has, IMO probably more than Starmer as an individual.
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English council elections on 12:52 - May 6 with 994 views
English council elections on 10:41 - May 6 by Gwyn737
Same for me Cat but we’ll be the last generation for a while that can be the bank of Mum and Dad (I’m generalising of course).
Yes, I agree there’s more around for kids today but there are a number of big things that are harder.
We had:
-affordable housing -well paid non-graduate jobs -free further education (including grants) -access to mortgages -NHS dentists -access to GPs -tighter family units to help with childcare
I’m not making a political point with this, it’s about how time has moved on and in many cases, not necessarily to the better.
By the way, how old are you that you had a tin bath in front of fire? 🤣.
We didn’t have central heating until I was 17 (coal fires) but we did have plumbing!
Well you know I'm older than you. It was the late 60's.
My point was about times have changed, people think they're poor now but they have a lot more than people did in the 50's, 60's and 70's.
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English council elections on 20:26 - May 6 with 885 views
Well you know I'm older than you. It was the late 60's.
My point was about times have changed, people think they're poor now but they have a lot more than people did in the 50's, 60's and 70's.
Agreed and I'm probably older than you. But I would say our expectations were lower and our aspirations were higher. Everywhere was still rebuilding after the war and there was a massive sense of freedom but hardship.
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English council elections on 21:21 - May 6 with 841 views
English council elections on 20:26 - May 6 by Gwyn737
And my point is these are the first generations coming through that’ll be poorer than their parents. They’ll have lower life expectancy too.
Like your situation my boy is much better off at 13 than I was but will he be able to buy a house? Maybe with my help but not all are so lucky.
Levelling up gets further and further away.
I'm not sure about the lower life expectancy. I think the figures are skewed. There's a lot of mental health problems and things like obesity that are affecting young people a lot more than they used to. As a result I think there's a lot more deaths among under 40's that skew the figures, it's just an ooinin and I don't have facts to back it up.
If th average expectancy age has come down then why is our population constantly said to be getting older. I know people are having fewer kids but that can't be the whole story. A lot of people are living to a very good age.
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English council elections on 21:29 - May 6 with 828 views
I'm not sure about the lower life expectancy. I think the figures are skewed. There's a lot of mental health problems and things like obesity that are affecting young people a lot more than they used to. As a result I think there's a lot more deaths among under 40's that skew the figures, it's just an ooinin and I don't have facts to back it up.
If th average expectancy age has come down then why is our population constantly said to be getting older. I know people are having fewer kids but that can't be the whole story. A lot of people are living to a very good age.
A lot of it is having less kids, I agree.
School numbers are dropping through the floor atm.
You’re right about mental health and obesity too. But I’d argue these are other things that our youngsters have to contend with.
I’m aware of my blind spot in this area, Cat. I’ve got a deeply engrained positive regard for young people. Can’t help it!
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English council elections on 21:57 - May 6 with 800 views
English council elections on 21:29 - May 6 by Gwyn737
A lot of it is having less kids, I agree.
School numbers are dropping through the floor atm.
You’re right about mental health and obesity too. But I’d argue these are other things that our youngsters have to contend with.
I’m aware of my blind spot in this area, Cat. I’ve got a deeply engrained positive regard for young people. Can’t help it!
I have nothing against young people, my son is 14! I have something against bad parents who dont prepare their kids for the modern world. I have something against selfish parents who put their own needs ahead of their kids.
Saying that, I do have something against young people who think the world owes them a living.
I have full respect for a teacher who puts his kids need at the top of his agenda too.
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English council elections on 22:04 - May 6 with 797 views
I have nothing against young people, my son is 14! I have something against bad parents who dont prepare their kids for the modern world. I have something against selfish parents who put their own needs ahead of their kids.
Saying that, I do have something against young people who think the world owes them a living.
I have full respect for a teacher who puts his kids need at the top of his agenda too.
You’re a good man, Cat ðŸ‘
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English council elections on 22:08 - May 6 with 794 views
Well, what do you know. The Moggster has stated voter fraud wasn’t an issue, the changes had "made it hard for our own voters" and the requirement for ID was to assist the Conservatives but it’s back fired on them as they lost so many seats.
Id have thought they lost so many seats because they’re a rudderless ship of self serving idiots who can’t see the wood from the trees.
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English council elections on 11:15 - May 16 with 568 views
English council elections on 19:30 - May 15 by majorraglan
Well, what do you know. The Moggster has stated voter fraud wasn’t an issue, the changes had "made it hard for our own voters" and the requirement for ID was to assist the Conservatives but it’s back fired on them as they lost so many seats.
Id have thought they lost so many seats because they’re a rudderless ship of self serving idiots who can’t see the wood from the trees.
Followed by Gove sending a letter to Starmer saying that allowing EU nationals to vote would be undermining democracy when he was the one who tabled the ID laws that Mogg criticised!
Of course, it’s Tory culture wars again. EU nationals voting is not policy (yet), it’s an idea.
What Starmer actually said was:
“The thinking behind it is if someone’s been here say 10, 20, 30 years, contributing to this economy, contributing to the community, they ought to be able to vote.
“Let me bring it alive — I’ve knocked on a lot of doors in the last few years, and you go to doors sometimes in a general election and you’re met with someone who says ‘look, I’m an EU citizen, I’ve been living here for 30 years, I’m married to a Brit.
“‘My kids were raised and brought up here, they’re now working in the UK, we’re all working in lots of community projects but I can’t vote.’
“That feels wrong, and something ought to be done about it.”
This seems to me like it’s worth a reasonable conversation.
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English council elections on 18:18 - May 16 with 510 views
English council elections on 11:15 - May 16 by Gwyn737
Followed by Gove sending a letter to Starmer saying that allowing EU nationals to vote would be undermining democracy when he was the one who tabled the ID laws that Mogg criticised!
Of course, it’s Tory culture wars again. EU nationals voting is not policy (yet), it’s an idea.
What Starmer actually said was:
“The thinking behind it is if someone’s been here say 10, 20, 30 years, contributing to this economy, contributing to the community, they ought to be able to vote.
“Let me bring it alive — I’ve knocked on a lot of doors in the last few years, and you go to doors sometimes in a general election and you’re met with someone who says ‘look, I’m an EU citizen, I’ve been living here for 30 years, I’m married to a Brit.
“‘My kids were raised and brought up here, they’re now working in the UK, we’re all working in lots of community projects but I can’t vote.’
“That feels wrong, and something ought to be done about it.”
This seems to me like it’s worth a reasonable conversation.
I agree with the point you’re making. My understanding is that Starmer is considering expanding the vote to people who’ve got “settled status” or the indefinite right to remain and reside in the UK. In essence we’re talking about people who’ve lived here legitimately for at least 5 years, speak English, work and pay taxes etc. There are exceptions including people who are very wealthy and invest large amounts of money in the UK who can apply after 2 or 3 years.
I was initially quite sceptical having read about it in a few newspapers, but having done some reading I think it’s something that should form part of a mature and considered conversation. We allow qualifying commonwealth citizens and ROI citizens to vote here.
Edit - typo re predictive text.
[Post edited 16 May 2023 21:56]
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English council elections on 18:28 - May 16 with 500 views
English council elections on 18:18 - May 16 by majorraglan
I agree with the point you’re making. My understanding is that Starmer is considering expanding the vote to people who’ve got “settled status” or the indefinite right to remain and reside in the UK. In essence we’re talking about people who’ve lived here legitimately for at least 5 years, speak English, work and pay taxes etc. There are exceptions including people who are very wealthy and invest large amounts of money in the UK who can apply after 2 or 3 years.
I was initially quite sceptical having read about it in a few newspapers, but having done some reading I think it’s something that should form part of a mature and considered conversation. We allow qualifying commonwealth citizens and ROI citizens to vote here.
Edit - typo re predictive text.
[Post edited 16 May 2023 21:56]
It would be great to have a grown up conversation about it but I’m not optimistic.
The other part was on votes for 16 year olds and I’m really wrestling with myself to form a solid opinion on it.
My natural reaction (and by legal definition) they’re still children but on the other hand, if you’re old enough to work, pay tax and NI why shouldn’t you have a voice? 🤷ðŸ»
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English council elections on 20:03 - May 16 with 480 views
English council elections on 18:28 - May 16 by Gwyn737
It would be great to have a grown up conversation about it but I’m not optimistic.
The other part was on votes for 16 year olds and I’m really wrestling with myself to form a solid opinion on it.
My natural reaction (and by legal definition) they’re still children but on the other hand, if you’re old enough to work, pay tax and NI why shouldn’t you have a voice? 🤷ðŸ»
I agree entirely about residents voting, by te same token if you have lived outside the UK for a prolonged length of time then why should you get a vote?
I am against 16 year olds voting and I don't think they pay tax either. I think there's more of an argument for raising the voting age than lowering it. I believe Welsh Labour want to lower the age because young people are more likely to vote labour. They haven't yet made their own minds up either, they will follow their parents.
On a separate issue, I think the minimm wage should be the same for all age groups. If you do the same job as someone you should get the same pay. An 18 year old could be married and have kids on the way but get paid less than a 21 year old (who has no kids) for the same job. it's unfair.
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English council elections on 22:07 - May 16 with 450 views
I agree entirely about residents voting, by te same token if you have lived outside the UK for a prolonged length of time then why should you get a vote?
I am against 16 year olds voting and I don't think they pay tax either. I think there's more of an argument for raising the voting age than lowering it. I believe Welsh Labour want to lower the age because young people are more likely to vote labour. They haven't yet made their own minds up either, they will follow their parents.
On a separate issue, I think the minimm wage should be the same for all age groups. If you do the same job as someone you should get the same pay. An 18 year old could be married and have kids on the way but get paid less than a 21 year old (who has no kids) for the same job. it's unfair.
Totally agree with you in relation to wages, I went in to a shop last Sunday that was part of a major chain, all the staff on duty looked really young, 16,17 and 18 years of age which equates to £5.28 an hour. It’s completely wrong.
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