| Start of the Bentley era? 23:10 - Feb 11 with 9609 views | Sheffield_dale |
Trying to snowball some positivity but is it fair to say today is the start of the Bentley era? Perhaps the end of the Stockdale drain?
The team is now pretty much majority his signings. He's had a full week with the team training. Today was a massive improvement and hopefully sign of things to come.
Going to be a tough ask but I feel we are more equipped than a few weeks ago |  | | |  |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 13:47 - Feb 12 with 3693 views | D_Alien |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 13:39 - Feb 12 by 442Dale |
Sorry missed this.
Not sure it’s mountains out of molehills, more people saying what they saw and going off what the manager said after as well. It’s no big thing at all, we found a way to get the most out of players, that’s the main thing.
Edit: in fact watching out goal gives the best reflection of how we lined up. The three centra at the back, Odoh higher up than Dodgson, midfield of Diagouraga, Keohane and Lloyd coming into central areas when he deems necessary (he contributes to the goal by forcing it on), Henderson and Quigley up front. [Post edited 12 Feb 2023 13:45]
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The flexible 3CB + 2WB setup is rightly being seen as an improvement with new players brought in and only positive vibes are being expressed by those who see it
Positivity can indeed be seen as a mountain, after the past couple of years
[Post edited 12 Feb 2023 13:48]
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 13:54 - Feb 12 with 3671 views | fourfourtwo |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 13:39 - Feb 12 by 442Dale |
Sorry missed this.
Not sure it’s mountains out of molehills, more people saying what they saw and going off what the manager said after as well. It’s no big thing at all, we found a way to get the most out of players, that’s the main thing.
Edit: in fact watching out goal gives the best reflection of how we lined up. The three centra at the back, Odoh higher up than Dodgson, midfield of Diagouraga, Keohane and Lloyd coming into central areas when he deems necessary (he contributes to the goal by forcing it on), Henderson and Quigley up front. [Post edited 12 Feb 2023 13:45]
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So the three centre half’s and Dodgson at the back (4), Odoh slightly higher up next to a midfield 3 (4) and Hendo and Quigley up top (2).
I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just think for people who didn’t attend the game to read we’d played a back five (as we have many times incredibly poorly) it wouldn’t be a true reflection.
As I said we did revert more towards a traditional back 5 late in the game.
May now change user name to fourfiveone. | | | |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 13:57 - Feb 12 with 3648 views | 442Dale |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 13:54 - Feb 12 by fourfourtwo |
So the three centre half’s and Dodgson at the back (4), Odoh slightly higher up next to a midfield 3 (4) and Hendo and Quigley up top (2).
I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just think for people who didn’t attend the game to read we’d played a back five (as we have many times incredibly poorly) it wouldn’t be a true reflection.
As I said we did revert more towards a traditional back 5 late in the game.
May now change user name to fourfiveone. |
Thought people said a back three! Certainly was never a five. |  |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 15:08 - Feb 12 with 3538 views | judd |
O'Donnells save right at the death. |  |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 15:34 - Feb 12 with 3484 views | electricblue |
Even though adshead is an ex Dale player for me he will be classed as part of the Bentley era....
I also think Adshead could play the part that Brierley would have and once upto speed even replace Ball and Kelly........
Adshead was signed in replace of Brierley imho.. |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 15:58 - Feb 12 with 3444 views | 49thseason |
Its interesting that McNulty warmed the defence up pre-game but noone bothered about warming up the Substitutes at half time, they were just on the pitch tapping a a ball to each other whilst the Northampton Subs were doing proper warm-up routines with one of their coaches... Equally you could argue their ought to be a couple of exercise bikes in the changing room for the subs to use during the game instead of just sitting in the dugout. Small things, but its the inches and seconds that make a difference sometimes. |  | | |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 16:53 - Feb 12 with 3353 views | EllDale |
Tapping the ball is an exaggeration in some instances.
There was a fair bit of standing around chatting as well. | | | |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 19:33 - Feb 12 with 3141 views | 49thseason |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 16:53 - Feb 12 by EllDale |
Tapping the ball is an exaggeration in some instances.
There was a fair bit of standing around chatting as well. |
You sort of wonder why they aren't included in the half time discussions like the rest of the squad. | | | |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 21:17 - Feb 12 with 2988 views | Dickydaler |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 19:33 - Feb 12 by 49thseason |
You sort of wonder why they aren't included in the half time discussions like the rest of the squad. |
I must admit I didn't take much notice about the half time bench on Saturday But, certainly this season and possibly even longer, our substitutes HAVE been included in half time dressing room discussions. It's something I have remarked on to others because I could never understand it either. Almost all other teams send their substitutes out for a kick around immediately the half time whistle is blown but we usually include them and only send them back out for the few minutes before the restart. If they weren't included on Saturday then it is a rarity. | | | |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 21:25 - Feb 12 with 2954 views | D_Alien |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 21:17 - Feb 12 by Dickydaler |
I must admit I didn't take much notice about the half time bench on Saturday But, certainly this season and possibly even longer, our substitutes HAVE been included in half time dressing room discussions. It's something I have remarked on to others because I could never understand it either. Almost all other teams send their substitutes out for a kick around immediately the half time whistle is blown but we usually include them and only send them back out for the few minutes before the restart. If they weren't included on Saturday then it is a rarity. |
Yep
On the one hand, 49th is complaining that our subs aren't included in half time team talks, and on the other complaining that we're not sending them out to do extensive warm-ups
Is there any point in doing a warm-up to then sit on the bench for 20-30 minutes? Waste of energy, if you ask me
[Post edited 12 Feb 2023 21:27]
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 10:48 - Feb 13 with 2599 views | AtThePeake |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 13:54 - Feb 12 by fourfourtwo |
So the three centre half’s and Dodgson at the back (4), Odoh slightly higher up next to a midfield 3 (4) and Hendo and Quigley up top (2).
I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just think for people who didn’t attend the game to read we’d played a back five (as we have many times incredibly poorly) it wouldn’t be a true reflection.
As I said we did revert more towards a traditional back 5 late in the game.
May now change user name to fourfiveone. |
It was a back three with Odoh playing as a more advanced wing-back on the right than Dodgson on the left.
We warmed up with a back four then started with a back 5 - as we have done a few times recently, including at Barrow and Salford off the top of the my head. |  |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 10:50 - Feb 13 with 2596 views | AtThePeake |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 21:25 - Feb 12 by D_Alien |
Yep
On the one hand, 49th is complaining that our subs aren't included in half time team talks, and on the other complaining that we're not sending them out to do extensive warm-ups
Is there any point in doing a warm-up to then sit on the bench for 20-30 minutes? Waste of energy, if you ask me
[Post edited 12 Feb 2023 21:27]
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I've stopped subscribing to the Athletic so not sure if this was the article I read at the time but I do remember there being quite a few instances of Wimbledon subs coming off the bench to score or assist goals after they hired a specific substitutes coach to go through an extensive warm-up at half-time.
https://theathletic.com/2819155/2021/09/13/we-call-them-finishers-not-substitute | |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 11:40 - Feb 13 with 2524 views | EllDale |
We make the subs go through the full warmup before a game and then sit them on the bench for 45 minutes in most cases as it's rare that a substitution is made in the first half.
Ok, so they have a desultory amble up and down the touchline every now and then.
When there is a good chance that they might be called upon in the second period though we just leave them to their own devices at halftime.
That doesn't seem logical to me. | | | |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 11:49 - Feb 13 with 2522 views | Sheffield_dale |
It's great that none of us can decipher the formation. This means opposition managers have to keep guessing. The more flexible and interchangeable the better. | | | |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 11:49 - Feb 13 with 2517 views | D_Alien |
Unable to read that due to the sign-up pop-up. What do other teams do?
if we looked at the stats for the impact our subs have had over the years, would it be significantly different? Recalling Dagnall coming off the bench after a long time out injured and grabbing a hat-trick in about 10 minutes suggests the major impacts are made by those with the hunger to do so. I'm not sure he went through an extensive half-time exercise programme | |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 12:24 - Feb 13 with 2430 views | EllDale |
I'm long gone by the time this happens but I've noticed in pitchside post match interviews with managers that you can sometimes see unused substitutes apparently "warming down".
I'm not quite sure of the purpose of this either? | | | |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 14:18 - Feb 13 with 2240 views | AtThePeake |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 11:49 - Feb 13 by D_Alien |
Unable to read that due to the sign-up pop-up. What do other teams do?
if we looked at the stats for the impact our subs have had over the years, would it be significantly different? Recalling Dagnall coming off the bench after a long time out injured and grabbing a hat-trick in about 10 minutes suggests the major impacts are made by those with the hunger to do so. I'm not sure he went through an extensive half-time exercise programme |
I've noticed a few other teams going through more rigorous drills at half-time than our players.
I understand the point of allowing the subs to listen to the team talk and would accept that as a viable reason to not have players out on the pitch at half-time but if our subs are going to 'warm up', then the least they can do is actually warm up rather than amble about aimlessly doing kick-ups and what have you. | |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 16:39 - Feb 13 with 2086 views | D_Alien |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 14:18 - Feb 13 by AtThePeake |
I've noticed a few other teams going through more rigorous drills at half-time than our players.
I understand the point of allowing the subs to listen to the team talk and would accept that as a viable reason to not have players out on the pitch at half-time but if our subs are going to 'warm up', then the least they can do is actually warm up rather than amble about aimlessly doing kick-ups and what have you. |
It's nothing new though and has only become a 'thing' since our fortunes have plummeted. No-one cared less during the Hill years (or not enough to pass comment), nor did it appear to impact upon our promotions and high finishes in L1
One thing i would comment on is Northampton bringing on subs within a couple of minutes of going behind, something we should've done at Salford (at 2-0). I guess it therefore helps if they're ready early doors
[Post edited 13 Feb 2023 19:09]
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 20:46 - Feb 13 with 1801 views | 49thseason |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 16:39 - Feb 13 by D_Alien |
It's nothing new though and has only become a 'thing' since our fortunes have plummeted. No-one cared less during the Hill years (or not enough to pass comment), nor did it appear to impact upon our promotions and high finishes in L1
One thing i would comment on is Northampton bringing on subs within a couple of minutes of going behind, something we should've done at Salford (at 2-0). I guess it therefore helps if they're ready early doors
[Post edited 13 Feb 2023 19:09]
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The thing is, as we all know by now, "its fine margins", that being the case what can we do to find a few percentage points of improvement? The new training facility should help you would think, maybe the Tumeric shots will help, the question is what else can be done that isnt being done? Warming up the subs at half time properly is an obvious area for improvement. The leaders in this sort of stuff are the NFL where players are often not actually on the pitch much, they must have loads of ideas on this sort of topic. I also believe that pure Oxygen inhilation is used by some athĺetes in sports that require a lengthy exertion to improve their VO2 Max levels both before exertion and after as an aid to stronger performance and quicker recovery. Would some Ballet stretches help to prevent injuries? Do players sleep properly when they stay away for some away games? There are loads of tiny changes that might make a difference, if you ignore them you run the risk of being on the wrong end of the " fine margins" | | | |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 21:02 - Feb 13 with 1746 views | 442Dale |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 20:46 - Feb 13 by 49thseason |
The thing is, as we all know by now, "its fine margins", that being the case what can we do to find a few percentage points of improvement? The new training facility should help you would think, maybe the Tumeric shots will help, the question is what else can be done that isnt being done? Warming up the subs at half time properly is an obvious area for improvement. The leaders in this sort of stuff are the NFL where players are often not actually on the pitch much, they must have loads of ideas on this sort of topic. I also believe that pure Oxygen inhilation is used by some athĺetes in sports that require a lengthy exertion to improve their VO2 Max levels both before exertion and after as an aid to stronger performance and quicker recovery. Would some Ballet stretches help to prevent injuries? Do players sleep properly when they stay away for some away games? There are loads of tiny changes that might make a difference, if you ignore them you run the risk of being on the wrong end of the " fine margins" |
In defence of both the current regime and managers/coaching staffs everywhere, it was made clear at the forum the amount of prep work and reliance on stats that takes place. Much as it would at all clubs.
The rest about fine margins is valid but it’s also dependent on speculation and chaos theory unless there Is there any information available that what they do in the NFL is better than what successful football clubs do for example? We might be doing some, all or none of any of the things suggested and we certainly could look more organised at half time, but it’s not the reason we’re bottom of the league.
And, if anything, there’s an argument that looking at the stats and being so in-depth about things like defending set pieces is pointless if you can’t do the basics. | |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 21:09 - Feb 13 with 1727 views | D_Alien |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 20:46 - Feb 13 by 49thseason |
The thing is, as we all know by now, "its fine margins", that being the case what can we do to find a few percentage points of improvement? The new training facility should help you would think, maybe the Tumeric shots will help, the question is what else can be done that isnt being done? Warming up the subs at half time properly is an obvious area for improvement. The leaders in this sort of stuff are the NFL where players are often not actually on the pitch much, they must have loads of ideas on this sort of topic. I also believe that pure Oxygen inhilation is used by some athĺetes in sports that require a lengthy exertion to improve their VO2 Max levels both before exertion and after as an aid to stronger performance and quicker recovery. Would some Ballet stretches help to prevent injuries? Do players sleep properly when they stay away for some away games? There are loads of tiny changes that might make a difference, if you ignore them you run the risk of being on the wrong end of the " fine margins" |
That's assuming that the so-called "fine margins" are more than just a figment of the imagination (or were...)
I'm not arguing against any measure that'd improve us, and listening to Bentley/Chadwick last Thursday there's lots of initiatives they're taking behind the scenes. I'm not seeing anything from the subs (when they're finally made) that suggests they'd be any more likely to have a greater impact with the measures you and others suggest
For instance, Mellor came on last Saturday and immediately got himself ahead of one of their defenders to head a ball forward with speed and athleticism. He didn't look anything like undercooked in terms of being prepared - which brings us back to the point i made around hunger | |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 14:25 - Feb 14 with 1422 views | DaleiLama |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 21:02 - Feb 13 by 442Dale |
In defence of both the current regime and managers/coaching staffs everywhere, it was made clear at the forum the amount of prep work and reliance on stats that takes place. Much as it would at all clubs.
The rest about fine margins is valid but it’s also dependent on speculation and chaos theory unless there Is there any information available that what they do in the NFL is better than what successful football clubs do for example? We might be doing some, all or none of any of the things suggested and we certainly could look more organised at half time, but it’s not the reason we’re bottom of the league.
And, if anything, there’s an argument that looking at the stats and being so in-depth about things like defending set pieces is pointless if you can’t do the basics. |
Can't remember if I mentioned this previously, but when working for a company supplying the auto sector, I was initially bewildered at the lengths especially Japanese OEMs went to get quality 100% on a single part, until it was explained to me that each car has 30k parts and if there is a small fault with each part, you will have a car with 30k faults. The flipside of this is the Marginal Gains Theory - improving and optimising your performance by a small amount across a number of different areas will lead to much more significant, noticeable improvements overall. Having followed cycling for a long time, the evidence is there for all to see in the Brailsford methodology, whether or not other factors came into play.
With respect to football, though, especially at L2 level, playing in a league where "everything is much of a muchness", whilst not discounting the benefits of marginal gains, I can't help but think that working on desire, self-belief and confidence will be lower hanging fruits, which will lead to more success if nurtured. I mentioned before the forum that confidence is lacking just about everywhere within the club and probably nowhere more so than out on the pitch.
I think someone referenced Ten Hag's reaction to Brentford (I think it was) running 11.8km as a team more than Utd, so he made the whole squad go on an 11.8km run and he accompanied them. The point he was making was obvious.
I was reading in the paper on Saturday that Dyche is having Eddie Jones in to glean "golden nuggets". He also has Peter Reid and Joe Royle lined up. Graeme Sharp is also on his list and Kiddo. He said of Peter Reid - if anyone asks who is that little fella, he'll say he had a heart as big as a bison and he could play.
When at Burnley, he had Tony Smith of Warrington Wolves and Stuart Pearce - all just to get ideas from, as a litmus test for visitors to get a feel for the place with outside eyes. Tony said "I know nothing about football, but I know it is right here. I can smell it in the air", which Pearcey agreed with.
I have to say that the starting X1 on Saturday gave more effort and showed more desire and willingness to get stuck in than has been on display for too long. In my opinion, our survival, like winning, will come down to who wants it most, not squeezing an extra 1% of performance out here or there. Not saying performance should be ignored, but the shear will to win is what we need to see more of for the rest of this season. [Post edited 14 Feb 2023 14:27]
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 16:02 - Feb 14 with 1219 views | electricblue |
| Start of the Bentley era? on 20:46 - Feb 13 by 49thseason |
The thing is, as we all know by now, "its fine margins", that being the case what can we do to find a few percentage points of improvement? The new training facility should help you would think, maybe the Tumeric shots will help, the question is what else can be done that isnt being done? Warming up the subs at half time properly is an obvious area for improvement. The leaders in this sort of stuff are the NFL where players are often not actually on the pitch much, they must have loads of ideas on this sort of topic. I also believe that pure Oxygen inhilation is used by some athĺetes in sports that require a lengthy exertion to improve their VO2 Max levels both before exertion and after as an aid to stronger performance and quicker recovery. Would some Ballet stretches help to prevent injuries? Do players sleep properly when they stay away for some away games? There are loads of tiny changes that might make a difference, if you ignore them you run the risk of being on the wrong end of the " fine margins" |
During Suttons stint as manager the squad where doing cardio workouts with an instructor at a local gym and also doing groin and hamstring stretches to help eliminate injuries..... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Start of the Bentley era? on 18:16 - Feb 14 with 1060 views | Hopwoodblue |
Our squad got Mondays & Thursdays off they are that good. |  |
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