| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 16:14 - Feb 6 with 16393 views | NotLoyal |
Sheffield United: Wes Foderingham, Sander Berge, Billy Sharp (captain), John Egan, Max Lowe, Anel Ahmedhodzic, Oliver Norwood, Jack Robinson, Jayden Bogle, James McAtee, Iliman Ndiaye.
Substitutes: Adam Davies, John Fleck, Chris Basham, Oli McBurnie, Ismaila Coulibaly, Ben Osborn, Ciaran Clark.
Swansea City: Andy Fisher; Kyle Naughton, Ben Cabango, Nathan Wood, Ryan Manning; Jay Fulton, Matt Grimes (captain), Olivier Ntcham, Ollie Cooper, Liam Cullen, Joel Piroe.
Substitutes: Lewis Webb, Harry Darling, Joe Allen, Luke Cundle, Morgan Whittaker, Liam Walsh, Matty Sorinola.
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 07:37 - Feb 13 with 1175 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 07:33 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
The issue you have is you are conparing players two or three years later if you consider the first playoff semi season.
Go look up the side that lost in the semi final, do you really believe that the current XI are better than that one?
To me i would say that only Allen and Piroe would make that XI |
I was comparing to them at the time.
Half that side is the one we have right now, and another handful you wouldn’t swap.
So how is it worse? |  |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 08:24 - Feb 13 with 1117 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 08:04 - Feb 13 by STID2017 |
That is a much stronger side and squad than we have now.
To dismiss Ayew, a proven Premier League and World Cup scorer is silly.
He is the best goalscorer to play for us since Bony.
Woodman would be an automatic choice for any Swans manager at Championship level.
Benda and Fisher don't get further than the subs bench with that team
Allen and Piroe are the only shoe ins for me.
Even then, Allen is injury prone now and cannot play the number of minutes he was playing two years ago.
Same for Naughton who is a bit player now for us, sadly |
I haven’t dismissed him, just factually said Piroe is an upgrade.
Piroe - 1 goal contribution every 143 mins
Ayew - 1 goal contribution every 178 mins
Benda would be chosen over Woodman every day of the week in a possession based Swansea side, not even up for debate.
The team we have now is absolutely stronger than the one in the picture, which is a cobbled together mess in reality.
Amazed how he got us so close with such a weakened side.
Shows the difference in what a competent manager can do with a side like ours vs an incompetent one. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 08:46 - Feb 13 with 1105 views | STID2017 |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 08:24 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
I haven’t dismissed him, just factually said Piroe is an upgrade.
Piroe - 1 goal contribution every 143 mins
Ayew - 1 goal contribution every 178 mins
Benda would be chosen over Woodman every day of the week in a possession based Swansea side, not even up for debate.
The team we have now is absolutely stronger than the one in the picture, which is a cobbled together mess in reality.
Amazed how he got us so close with such a weakened side.
Shows the difference in what a competent manager can do with a side like ours vs an incompetent one. |
All points are debatable.
Whole point of a forum.
Ayew is a long established goalscorer who contributes a lot of assists as well to the side.
I would have loved to have had Piroe alongside him though.
Same with a fully fit Joe Allen in the final.
Woodman is a far superior keeper.
Potter, Cooper or Martin would be crazy not to use him. |  |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 08:52 - Feb 13 with 1098 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 08:46 - Feb 13 by STID2017 |
All points are debatable.
Whole point of a forum.
Ayew is a long established goalscorer who contributes a lot of assists as well to the side.
I would have loved to have had Piroe alongside him though.
Same with a fully fit Joe Allen in the final.
Woodman is a far superior keeper.
Potter, Cooper or Martin would be crazy not to use him. |
My data includes both assists and goals - Piroe is an upgrade.
Woodman would be on the bench in this team. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:53 - Feb 13 with 1102 views | BryanSwan |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 07:37 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
I was comparing to them at the time.
Half that side is the one we have right now, and another handful you wouldn’t swap.
So how is it worse? |
It's all opinions. Mine would be that.
Mulder & Woodman are probably equal to Benda but better than Fisher
Roberts is better than Latibaudiere.
2020 Naughton better than current Naughton.
Cabango is probably slightly better now.
VDH & Guehi are better than either Darling or Wood.
Bidwell and Manning, not too much between them.
Allen is better than Hourihane.
Grimes and Fulton are Grimes and Fulton.
Ayew probably equal to Piroe and Lowe/Brewster being better than Obafemi. |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:37 - Feb 13 with 1069 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:53 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
It's all opinions. Mine would be that.
Mulder & Woodman are probably equal to Benda but better than Fisher
Roberts is better than Latibaudiere.
2020 Naughton better than current Naughton.
Cabango is probably slightly better now.
VDH & Guehi are better than either Darling or Wood.
Bidwell and Manning, not too much between them.
Allen is better than Hourihane.
Grimes and Fulton are Grimes and Fulton.
Ayew probably equal to Piroe and Lowe/Brewster being better than Obafemi. |
But you are combining two teams there, and comparing them to this one? He didn’t get the benefit of combining his teams so it’s not a fair comparison.
If you compare 2 squads to 1 then that’s always going to skew the results.
Surely you compare to each individually.
Lowe has a worse scoring and assist record than Obafemi.
Ayew has a worse scoring and assist record than Piroe.
Agree not much between Woodman and Benda, although in this system Benda wins.
The rest we agree on, which makes this team stronger than Coopers.
Guehi and Roberts are the only two I would swap back for their direct replacements in this team. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:56 - Feb 13 with 1045 views | BryanSwan |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:37 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
But you are combining two teams there, and comparing them to this one? He didn’t get the benefit of combining his teams so it’s not a fair comparison.
If you compare 2 squads to 1 then that’s always going to skew the results.
Surely you compare to each individually.
Lowe has a worse scoring and assist record than Obafemi.
Ayew has a worse scoring and assist record than Piroe.
Agree not much between Woodman and Benda, although in this system Benda wins.
The rest we agree on, which makes this team stronger than Coopers.
Guehi and Roberts are the only two I would swap back for their direct replacements in this team. |
Not combining them, I am just stating that i think those players at that time were better than current ones.
From the semi final season I would maybe only swap Piroe for Brewster and Allen for Gallagher.
From the playoff final season it would be Piroe for Lowe and Allen for Hourihane.
Our style of play was much more conservative under Cooper and we created very few true chances. Not a slight on Piroe but I would take Ayew any day. As for Obafemi 15 in 51games isn't any better than Lowes 14 in 44 or Brewsters 10 in 20. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:06 - Feb 13 with 1036 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:56 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
Not combining them, I am just stating that i think those players at that time were better than current ones.
From the semi final season I would maybe only swap Piroe for Brewster and Allen for Gallagher.
From the playoff final season it would be Piroe for Lowe and Allen for Hourihane.
Our style of play was much more conservative under Cooper and we created very few true chances. Not a slight on Piroe but I would take Ayew any day. As for Obafemi 15 in 51games isn't any better than Lowes 14 in 44 or Brewsters 10 in 20. |
Yes but “that time” spanned 24 months.
We didn’t have all those players at the same time, and we are comparing squad for squad.
Why would you swap Piroe for Brewster?
He’s worth less than Piroe, scores less than Piroe, assists less than Piroe.
Piroe has nearly scored more this season than Brewster has in his entire career. 4 in his last 57 games. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:58 - Feb 13 with 1013 views | BryanSwan |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:06 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes but “that time” spanned 24 months.
We didn’t have all those players at the same time, and we are comparing squad for squad.
Why would you swap Piroe for Brewster?
He’s worth less than Piroe, scores less than Piroe, assists less than Piroe.
Piroe has nearly scored more this season than Brewster has in his entire career. 4 in his last 57 games. |
Squad for squad only Allen and Piroe would get in either of the XI from the Cooper seasons in my opinion.
I've said above that Piroe would get in over Brewster or Lowe, but not over Ayew. Would've been interesting to see Ayew and Piroe play together. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:09 - Feb 13 with 999 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:58 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
Squad for squad only Allen and Piroe would get in either of the XI from the Cooper seasons in my opinion.
I've said above that Piroe would get in over Brewster or Lowe, but not over Ayew. Would've been interesting to see Ayew and Piroe play together. |
Manning or Cooper would certainly get in over Bidwell.
The keepers pretty much offset but Benda more suited to our style
Ntcham would tear strips off Hourihane
The rest of the team is the same side as today, expect a young Guehi on loan and Roberts (now also in the Championship).
Piroe has more assists and goals than Ayew at this level and nowhere near the same amount of minutes on the pitch as Ayew.
To suggest there is some great difference between the two teams just isn’t reflected in the facts. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 11:10]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:29 - Feb 13 with 987 views | BryanSwan |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:09 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Manning or Cooper would certainly get in over Bidwell.
The keepers pretty much offset but Benda more suited to our style
Ntcham would tear strips off Hourihane
The rest of the team is the same side as today, expect a young Guehi on loan and Roberts (now also in the Championship).
Piroe has more assists and goals than Ayew at this level and nowhere near the same amount of minutes on the pitch as Ayew.
To suggest there is some great difference between the two teams just isn’t reflected in the facts. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 11:10]
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How is the rest of the side the same as today? There are only 3 players from the Playoff final that are still regular starters: Grimes, Fulton and Cabango.
Oli Cooper over Biwell?
There is a great difference as there are 8 different players and of the 8 I'd prefer 6 from the playoff final XI. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:40 - Feb 13 with 982 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:29 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
How is the rest of the side the same as today? There are only 3 players from the Playoff final that are still regular starters: Grimes, Fulton and Cabango.
Oli Cooper over Biwell?
There is a great difference as there are 8 different players and of the 8 I'd prefer 6 from the playoff final XI. |
Because that is the rest of the side.
Do I really have to go through it again?
Get your fingers out and count.
1. Piroe proven to be better than Ayew
2. Cooper/Manning better than Bidwell
3, Obafemi better than Lowe
4. Keepers offset but Benda more suited
5. Guehi better than Wood - but he was only on loan as a youngster
6. Roberts better than Lati
7. Allen/Ntcham better than Hourihane
8. Grimes
9. Naughton
10. Cabango
11. Fulton
We still have.
That’s 5 spots better today, 4 the same, 2 worse.
I’m being kind there too, as Fulton, Cabango and Grimes are all better iterations of themselves than they were 2 seasons ago.
Todays squad wins. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 11:46]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:45 - Feb 13 with 977 views | BryanSwan |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:40 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Because that is the rest of the side.
Do I really have to go through it again?
Get your fingers out and count.
1. Piroe proven to be better than Ayew
2. Cooper/Manning better than Bidwell
3, Obafemi better than Lowe
4. Keepers offset but Benda more suited
5. Guehi better than Wood - but he was only on loan as a youngster
6. Roberts better than Lati
7. Allen/Ntcham better than Hourihane
8. Grimes
9. Naughton
10. Cabango
11. Fulton
We still have.
That’s 5 spots better today, 4 the same, 2 worse.
I’m being kind there too, as Fulton, Cabango and Grimes are all better iterations of themselves than they were 2 seasons ago.
Todays squad wins. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 11:46]
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It is an opinion, there is no correct answer no matter how many times it is written.
You rate players differently to what i do, fair enough. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:51 - Feb 13 with 973 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:45 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
It is an opinion, there is no correct answer no matter how many times it is written.
You rate players differently to what i do, fair enough. |
Indeed. But a lot of it is easily proven by their performance metrics.
More than happy for you to rate players differently, more than happy for you to say you prefer the other squad - but to say there is a big difference just isn’t true.
A third of it is the same. Another third is demonstrably better.
There is only a few contentious points and neither tip the balance greatly in one direction or the other. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:13 - Feb 13 with 959 views | BryanSwan |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:51 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Indeed. But a lot of it is easily proven by their performance metrics.
More than happy for you to rate players differently, more than happy for you to say you prefer the other squad - but to say there is a big difference just isn’t true.
A third of it is the same. Another third is demonstrably better.
There is only a few contentious points and neither tip the balance greatly in one direction or the other. |
It really depends what you look at, I mean statistically Woodman is far superior to Benda and Guehi to Darling.
But what they don't show is the way the team plays and how other players factor in. I.e Guehi is better than Darling which also benefits Woodmans performance.
I'd say having players of the ilk of Ayew, Roberts and Guehi now would make us a completely different side. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 12:17 - Feb 13 with 953 views | Dr_Winston |
I would take Ayew ahead of Piroe. I'd also take Bidwell ahead of Manning. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:23 - Feb 13 with 944 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:13 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
It really depends what you look at, I mean statistically Woodman is far superior to Benda and Guehi to Darling.
But what they don't show is the way the team plays and how other players factor in. I.e Guehi is better than Darling which also benefits Woodmans performance.
I'd say having players of the ilk of Ayew, Roberts and Guehi now would make us a completely different side. |
Guehi better than Darling, absolutely. No arguments from me.
Woodman better than Benda? Not for me. But again, even if that were true, it doesn’t really tip the balance either way. It would be minimally impactful.
Piroe provides more to the rest of the team than Ayew did, and I love Ayew.
Roberts I agree, I’d love him back… but I wouldn’t be swapping all the benefits of this current side just to have him back and 19 year old Guehi on loan.
Most of those players left over from that squad are also better versions of themselves today (Cabango, Grimes, Manning and Fulton).
So wherever side of the divide you land on with these players, it’s minimal. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:43 - Feb 13 with 935 views | BryanSwan |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:23 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Guehi better than Darling, absolutely. No arguments from me.
Woodman better than Benda? Not for me. But again, even if that were true, it doesn’t really tip the balance either way. It would be minimally impactful.
Piroe provides more to the rest of the team than Ayew did, and I love Ayew.
Roberts I agree, I’d love him back… but I wouldn’t be swapping all the benefits of this current side just to have him back and 19 year old Guehi on loan.
Most of those players left over from that squad are also better versions of themselves today (Cabango, Grimes, Manning and Fulton).
So wherever side of the divide you land on with these players, it’s minimal. |
Benda or Woodman is one I'm not fussed on, both are okay goalkeepers in my opinion.
I would say though that i thought Ayew contributed much more to the team outside of goals, his tracking back, tackling, heading etc surely all exceed Piroe. Especially this season where Piroe has seemed to have dipped from last year.
I do think its forgotten that Bidwell racked up 10 or so assists that season, i don't rate him massively more than Manning but you have to admit thats a fair old contribution. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:52 - Feb 13 with 930 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:43 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
Benda or Woodman is one I'm not fussed on, both are okay goalkeepers in my opinion.
I would say though that i thought Ayew contributed much more to the team outside of goals, his tracking back, tackling, heading etc surely all exceed Piroe. Especially this season where Piroe has seemed to have dipped from last year.
I do think its forgotten that Bidwell racked up 10 or so assists that season, i don't rate him massively more than Manning but you have to admit thats a fair old contribution. |
Piroe has 42 goals and assists in 73 appearances.
Ayew had 35 goals and assists in 94 appearances.
Ayew was an excellent player for us, but Piroe outstrips him and there is no chance I swap them back.
Bidwell was okay, but again not someone who is going to tip the balance either way. If Coventry offered a straight swap deal for Manning or Cooper we would laugh our heads off. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:51 - Feb 13 with 888 views | BryanSwan |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:52 - Feb 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Piroe has 42 goals and assists in 73 appearances.
Ayew had 35 goals and assists in 94 appearances.
Ayew was an excellent player for us, but Piroe outstrips him and there is no chance I swap them back.
Bidwell was okay, but again not someone who is going to tip the balance either way. If Coventry offered a straight swap deal for Manning or Cooper we would laugh our heads off. |
They are quite different players really, depending on what you want from a forward would depend on who you went for.
Ayew was a workhorse up fron for us in those two seasons, properly got stuck in. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 17:36 - Feb 13 with 861 views | Whiterockin |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 12:17 - Feb 13 by Dr_Winston |
I would take Ayew ahead of Piroe. I'd also take Bidwell ahead of Manning. |
Without a doubt. |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:55 - Feb 13 with 840 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:51 - Feb 13 by BryanSwan |
They are quite different players really, depending on what you want from a forward would depend on who you went for.
Ayew was a workhorse up fron for us in those two seasons, properly got stuck in. |
But one far more effective than the other as a striker.
If we offered Forest a straight swap deal they would snatch our hands off. | |
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| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 06:48 - Feb 14 with 799 views | Dr_Winston |
| Sheffield United v Swansea City : Matchday Thread 22;23 on 17:36 - Feb 13 by Whiterockin |
Without a doubt. |
Joel is a good player, but Ayew worked twice as hard for the team. He led by example every single game. Plus he played in a side that was even less attacking than this one and somehow dragged it into the playoffs twice through sheer force of will. Bringing him back will ultimately go down as a mistake, but you'd have to be a bit of a prat to deny that he did his level best to earn every bit of his contract.
I'm happy to have Manning in the squad, but his performances at WB are a bit overrated for me. He's not compensating for his lack of pace with good enough service going forward, whilst Bidwell did. [Post edited 14 Feb 2023 6:55]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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