| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts 10:49 - Jun 23 with 8945 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
Great article, and obviously unbiased as the lad is from Exeter. He raises some interesting points to be honest.
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/opinion/portsmouth-v-southampton-where-best-pl
Portsmouth v Southampton: Where is the best place to live?
"OK, time to come clean. Before joining The News in February, I worked at the Southern Daily Echo newspaper for 15 years, breathing Southampton air for all that time and managing to survive with my health intact.
But please, those of you who pull a face whenever the 'S' word is mentioned, don't hold my employment history against me. And anyway, you'd have been a keen fly on the wall at some of the editorial meetings we had.
That's because we often looked down the M27 towards Portsmouth with an envious eye.
For several years we badgered the local council to do something, anything, to give Southampton city that elusive WOW factor. And why did we do that? Because Portsmouth was stealing so much of the south Hampshire glory, that's why. As a paper, we were at times envious of Portsmouth.
The Spinnaker Tower might have ended up going wildly over budget, but the undoubted fact was this '“ it went up, structurally as well as in price. And in going up, it gave Portsmouth an instant icon which could adorn many a marketing poster, as well as a unique visitor attraction. They didn't have anything like this in Southampton at the time and '“ more than a decade on '“ they still don't.
Perhaps that's why in a recent YouGov survey which asked more than 55,000 people for their views on 57 UK cities, Portsmouth came in ahead of Southampton.
Portsmouth was 34th with an approval rating of 64 per cent, while Southampton was eight places behind on 55 per cent. If I was a Portsmouth citizen, though, I wouldn't have crowed too much '“ after all, your city was still ranked behind Stoke-on-Trent (16th!), Plymouth (29th) and even Gloucester (33rd).
Anyway, putting that survey to one side, let's look at some other examples of Portsmouth getting the upper hand on Southampton from a city perspective.
Long before the Spinnaker was dreamt of, Southampton hosted the first Great South Run in 1990. It was a big success, but that didn't stop the event being moved to Portsmouth 12 months later. It has been a huge annual event ever since, earning Portsmouth both worldwide publicity and massive financial windfalls. Those with long memories at the Echo used to moan about that every time the race came around in late October.
Remaining on a sporting theme, Southampton were desperate for Olympic sailing legend Sir Ben Ainslie to make the city his America's Cup base in 2015, but despite talks lost out when Ainslie, who lived just down the road in Lymington, chose Portsmouth instead. As a result, Southampton council leader Simon Letts accused the government of bribing Ainslie into moving to Portsmouth '“ comments he later withdrew after 'sour grapes' jibes from Portsmouth politicians.
Against those 'wins', Portsea Island suffered one major sporting 'loss' to the lot at the other end of the M27.
For more than a century, Portsmouth hosted several Hampshire cricket games every year '“Â more than 300 first class matches in total '“ but the last came in 2000 before the county built their new home at West End on the outskirts of Southampton.
In my book the loss of county cricket should be mourned more than an athletics race celebrated '“ however big that race might be '“ or championing the fact you've sweet-talked an Olympic legend into basing himself in your waters rather than in Southampton ones.
Financially, though, the GSR and America's Cup races would have boosted the Portsmouth economy more than 18 years of Hampshire playing occasional games in front of a few thousand spectators. And money talks, right?
Elsewhere, despite the loss of county cricket, Portsmouth triumphs in many head-to-head comparisons.
Musically, my time at the Daily Echo coincided with Portsmouth's Victorious Festival not only starting but quickly morphing into one of the best of its kind anywhere in the south. That was a source of exasperation to us at the Daily Echo too.
For the past few years, Common People and Let's Rock have brought thousands of music fans back to Southampton Common but, in terms of big names, Victorious usually wins.
Look at this year's respective bills: Victorious boasted the likes of Paul Weller, Kaiser Chiefs, Brian Wilson and The Prodigy compared to Common People's Lily Allen, Boney M and the Jacksons. Craig David, born and bred in Southampton, was even due to perform in Portsmouth rather than his home city in 2018 before the second day of Mutiny was cancelled in the wake of the deaths of two festivalgoers.
Port Solent recently celebrated its 30th anniversary and hundreds of people poured into the marina to eat and drink in one of the 15 restaurants and pubs that adorn the boardwalk areas.
But did you know that, in terms of waterfront living, Southampton got there first? Its equivalent, at Ocean Village, opened in 1986 with Danny La Rue performing the official unveiling of the Canute's Pavilion shops complex the following year. But three decades on it lacks the buzz that a visit to Port Solent can provide.
Canute's was demolished in 2008, there are a lot fewer restaurants in Ocean Village, and the Cineworld cinema closed last month. A sparkling new hotel has certainly added to the skyline there, but overall I would prefer to live in Port Solent if I had the choice of the two. And I'm not biased towards Portsmouth or Southampton; I'm just someone born and bred in Exeter (15th in the YouGov list) with a reasonable knowledge of both cities' attractions and speaking, or writing, as I see it.
And this is what else I see '“ Portsmouth boasting the better waterfront facilities, with Gunwharf Quays a great location for some outlet shopping and something to eat while looking out to sea (and across to blocks of flats in Gosport). The views from Portsdown Hill on a sunny, clear day are also simply wonderful. I'm a sucker for a good cityscape, and nowhere in Southampton provides such spectacular views.
And while Portsmouth can offer up Southsea to anyone wanting a day out topping up their tan on a beach, the best Southampton can do is Weston Shore. I wouldn't want to swim there, the 'beach' is more dirty shingle than sand, but the views are great ... if you like views of oil refineries, that is.
And the Historic Dockyard is simply dripping with, er, history. Southampton's SeaCity Museum does its best but is no match for HMS Warrior and Mary Rose. In fairness, though, what is if you're looking to immerse yourself in that sort of attraction.
I asked my partner, who has lived in Portsmouth for the best part of 30 years, if there was anything she thought the home of the Saints did better than the home of Pompey.
'Shops,' was her one word answer, and it's an unarguable point.
WestQuay, with its flagship John Lewis store, offers the high street retail experience you cannot find in Portsmouth. Ikea might not be everyone's cup of tea '“ or, indeed, plate of meatballs '“ but it also undoubtedly helps boost visitor 'footfall', an expression I detest.
Those in the blue corner will hold up Gunwharf and Port Solent in opposition to WestQuay and its restaurant-dominated sibling WestQuay2. I'm a big fan of both the former, but there are better shops and a wide range of places to fill your stomach in the latter pair.
Returning to money, there is one possible obvious answer as to why a succession of Southampton councils has gone down the retail route '“ the buoyant cruise ship market. Every time a ship visits the city it's worth about £2m to the local/regional economy '“ and with 500 such visits in 2017 that's a cool £2bn. And cruise passengers like to visit shops.
Aesthetically, a debate about whether Portsmouth or Southampton is the nicer-looking city could take up several of these columns and still we wouldn't be close to a definitive answer, if one exists.
I will, though, quote from the Southampton-born architecture critic Owen Hatherley's excellent book A Guide To The New Ruins of Great Britain. Talking of the rivalry between the cities, he writes: '˜Portsmouth is alleged to be an insular island, yet has played the Blairite iconic architecture/urban regeneration game far more effectively, with its Spinnaker observation tower and glass sky scrapers forming an incongruously slick enclave in amongst the two-up-two-downs. Southampton's urban renaissance entails nondescript retail and Barrett boxes.'
See, we're back to the Spinnaker again. Hatherley wrote that in 2010, but the subsequent eight years hasn't changed my view that he is right. And just think '“ if you hadn't knocked down the Tricorn (see last week's column) I'd be saying even nicer things about Portsmouth!"
An interesting article to say the least!!!!! [Post edited 23 Jun 2022 11:27]
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 10:54 - Jun 23 with 6469 views | SonicBoom |
I have to commend Mr 130 for his trolling. He appears, starts a pointless thread of squabbling that goes on for 15 pages, then disappears again for a while. |  | | |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 10:57 - Jun 23 with 6458 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 10:54 - Jun 23 by SonicBoom |
I have to commend Mr 130 for his trolling. He appears, starts a pointless thread of squabbling that goes on for 15 pages, then disappears again for a while. |
The problem is that there is no football to talk about. | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 10:59 - Jun 23 with 6450 views | PatfromPoole |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 10:57 - Jun 23 by 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
The problem is that there is no football to talk about. |
This never stops you any other time of the year. |  |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 11:02 - Jun 23 with 6435 views | Heisenberg |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 10:57 - Jun 23 by 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
The problem is that there is no football to talk about. |
Exams finished ? |  |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 11:04 - Jun 23 with 6429 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
I genuinely didn't realise that the Cineworld cinema had closed. | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 11:05 - Jun 23 with 6426 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 10:59 - Jun 23 by PatfromPoole |
This never stops you any other time of the year. |
Hardly ever start a new thread these days. Them the facts Pat. | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 11:09 - Jun 23 with 6425 views | Butty101 |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 10:59 - Jun 23 by PatfromPoole |
This never stops you any other time of the year. |
I only read the first paragraph but i guess the gist is, bloke used to live in Southampton and work for echo. Moves to portsmouth and works for the news. So to fit in slags Southampton off brilliant... |  |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:13 - Jun 23 with 6316 views | TripleNiemi |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 10:57 - Jun 23 by 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
The problem is that there is no football to talk about. |
Hello pal, long time no speak.
How do you rate yer chances of getting out of the tin pot league this year? |  |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:26 - Jun 23 with 6302 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:13 - Jun 23 by TripleNiemi |
Hello pal, long time no speak.
How do you rate yer chances of getting out of the tin pot league this year? |
I wouldn't call Soton tin-pot, but I would say that is was a shame you missed out to Bradford in the opportunity to get lots of government spending in the City of Culture competition to develop Soton as a half-decent city to visit. | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:40 - Jun 23 with 6283 views | PatfromPoole |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:26 - Jun 23 by 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
I wouldn't call Soton tin-pot, but I would say that is was a shame you missed out to Bradford in the opportunity to get lots of government spending in the City of Culture competition to develop Soton as a half-decent city to visit. |
Levelling up, pal.
Southampton is already high up the ladder on culture. | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:43 - Jun 23 with 6279 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:40 - Jun 23 by PatfromPoole |
Levelling up, pal.
Southampton is already high up the ladder on culture. |
Is that so? It seems a lot of tourists haven't cottoned onto this yet. Give them time eh? | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:47 - Jun 23 with 6267 views | felly1 |
To be fair he has some points. Most people I know always comment how there is more to do and see in Pompey.
I'm Southampton born and bred with no intention of going anywhere else.
But I've spent well over 10 years working all over Pompey.
Slowly I began to warm to the place (ashamed to admit this but true)
It's clearly got its fair share of grim areas, Landport, Sommerstown and Buckland spring to mind but Southsea is pretty nice and much more of an enjoyable place to go than anywhere in Southampton.
I love the free live music on Southsea Common on Sundays..loads of people chilled out on the grass, drinking and dancing whilst you got a nice sea view whilst enjoying the music.
.Never been to Victorious but the line up looks OK... Far better than the crappy "Let's Rock" we have to pay for.
Youll always have a shite football team though. |  | | |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:50 - Jun 23 with 6257 views | TripleNiemi |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:43 - Jun 23 by 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
Is that so? It seems a lot of tourists haven't cottoned onto this yet. Give them time eh? |
Pal, just imagine the heights Pompey could have reached (as a City) if their hometown football club had of paid off all their outstanding debts to the local community. Could have been the next 'London' i reckon...... | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:54 - Jun 23 with 6241 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:47 - Jun 23 by felly1 |
To be fair he has some points. Most people I know always comment how there is more to do and see in Pompey.
I'm Southampton born and bred with no intention of going anywhere else.
But I've spent well over 10 years working all over Pompey.
Slowly I began to warm to the place (ashamed to admit this but true)
It's clearly got its fair share of grim areas, Landport, Sommerstown and Buckland spring to mind but Southsea is pretty nice and much more of an enjoyable place to go than anywhere in Southampton.
I love the free live music on Southsea Common on Sundays..loads of people chilled out on the grass, drinking and dancing whilst you got a nice sea view whilst enjoying the music.
.Never been to Victorious but the line up looks OK... Far better than the crappy "Let's Rock" we have to pay for.
Youll always have a shite football team though. |
A brave and honest reply.
What is common people like? Admittedly, Pompey has put all their eggs in one music festival and not two, and the location has always been a winner
Most British cities have got crap areas, and pompey is no different, but walking for miles all around the seafront and into old Portsmouth has always been good. Of course, now you can walk to Hilsea, and also to Farlington/ Havant mostly on paths/cycle lanes.
I keep saying it, but the remaing waterfront area (Mayflower park?) at Soton is a massive opportunity, but I half expect your council to mess it up, and mostly build flats/ houses.
I'm not sure about always having a shite football team, things can change very quickly in football. | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:57 - Jun 23 with 6235 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:50 - Jun 23 by TripleNiemi |
Pal, just imagine the heights Pompey could have reached (as a City) if their hometown football club had of paid off all their outstanding debts to the local community. Could have been the next 'London' i reckon...... |
Were they our debts or the racketeers debts? It seems someone made a bit of money, but it wasn't the club, and the fans had to pay some of those debts to buy the club. Nice fans | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:02 - Jun 23 with 6225 views | SaintNick |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 11:09 - Jun 23 by Butty101 |
I only read the first paragraph but i guess the gist is, bloke used to live in Southampton and work for echo. Moves to portsmouth and works for the news. So to fit in slags Southampton off brilliant... |
Actually the bloke in question never lived in Southampton, he lived in Fordingbridge during his time as Sports Editor of the Daily Echo and being a family man with young children at the time, didn't actually spend much time in Southampton's culture in the City centre etc.
Likewise he rarely went to St Mary's, unless Exeter City were playing there.
He is a decent fella, he drove me down to watch Saints in an evening game down in Exeter in our promotion season from League One.
He moved down to Portsmouth when he met a new partner after being made redundant from the Echo.
He now seems to earn his living with the Portsmouth News writing articles in praise of Pompey, which is fair enough they like people saying nice things about them down there to try and convince them they are relevant.
But you can make things seem fact, he waxes about the Victorious festival and whilst he talks that up as why Pompey is a more musical City that Southampton fails to mention that aise from those three days of the year, Pompey pales into insignificance when compared to Southampton.
Pompey has basically two venues, the Guildhall that rarely puts on current acts and the Wedgewood Rooms which is best described as their equivalent of the Joiner.
Whilst we have our Guildhall with plenty of current acts , the Mayflower who are now starting to put on music gigs again after a 3 decade absence, The Brook, The 1865 club, the Engine Rooms, the Joiners and even the Concorde Club.
All of these combine to give a varied musical experience from popular current acts, through past greats to up and coming bands at venues of varying sizes.
Just this one example shows how you can twist the truth, claim that Pompey is a buzzing musical city just because of one three day festival
I like the author in question, but as I say when I knew him he was far from being a resident of the city "breathing Southampton air for all that time and managing to survive with my health intact. " he breathed it in Redbridge for 8 hours a day 5 days a week less 5 weeks holiday.
It seems he has been taken over by the Portsmyth syndrome. |  |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:18 - Jun 23 with 6182 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:02 - Jun 23 by SaintNick |
Actually the bloke in question never lived in Southampton, he lived in Fordingbridge during his time as Sports Editor of the Daily Echo and being a family man with young children at the time, didn't actually spend much time in Southampton's culture in the City centre etc.
Likewise he rarely went to St Mary's, unless Exeter City were playing there.
He is a decent fella, he drove me down to watch Saints in an evening game down in Exeter in our promotion season from League One.
He moved down to Portsmouth when he met a new partner after being made redundant from the Echo.
He now seems to earn his living with the Portsmouth News writing articles in praise of Pompey, which is fair enough they like people saying nice things about them down there to try and convince them they are relevant.
But you can make things seem fact, he waxes about the Victorious festival and whilst he talks that up as why Pompey is a more musical City that Southampton fails to mention that aise from those three days of the year, Pompey pales into insignificance when compared to Southampton.
Pompey has basically two venues, the Guildhall that rarely puts on current acts and the Wedgewood Rooms which is best described as their equivalent of the Joiner.
Whilst we have our Guildhall with plenty of current acts , the Mayflower who are now starting to put on music gigs again after a 3 decade absence, The Brook, The 1865 club, the Engine Rooms, the Joiners and even the Concorde Club.
All of these combine to give a varied musical experience from popular current acts, through past greats to up and coming bands at venues of varying sizes.
Just this one example shows how you can twist the truth, claim that Pompey is a buzzing musical city just because of one three day festival
I like the author in question, but as I say when I knew him he was far from being a resident of the city "breathing Southampton air for all that time and managing to survive with my health intact. " he breathed it in Redbridge for 8 hours a day 5 days a week less 5 weeks holiday.
It seems he has been taken over by the Portsmyth syndrome. |
The Guildhall doesn't have current acts?
Portsmouth basically only has 2 music venues?
Ok Nick | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:32 - Jun 23 with 6167 views | PatfromPoole |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:18 - Jun 23 by 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
The Guildhall doesn't have current acts?
Portsmouth basically only has 2 music venues?
Ok Nick |
I have been to gigs at the Guildhall, Pyramids and Wedgwood Rooms.
But bigger acts tend to avoid all of them; the main time they will be in Portsmouth is for Victorious.
Whereas bigger acts regularly play Southampton Guildhall.
Oasis played Southampton Guildhall and the Joiners. Did they ever play at Portsmouth? | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:42 - Jun 23 with 6116 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:32 - Jun 23 by PatfromPoole |
I have been to gigs at the Guildhall, Pyramids and Wedgwood Rooms.
But bigger acts tend to avoid all of them; the main time they will be in Portsmouth is for Victorious.
Whereas bigger acts regularly play Southampton Guildhall.
Oasis played Southampton Guildhall and the Joiners. Did they ever play at Portsmouth? |
Not that Oasis is the benchmark, but they certainly played at the Wedgewood rooms
Looks like most of the big bands now play at Portsmouth during the summer season, but many give Soton a miss. [Post edited 23 Jun 2022 13:44]
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:43 - Jun 23 with 6114 views | TripleNiemi |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:32 - Jun 23 by PatfromPoole |
I have been to gigs at the Guildhall, Pyramids and Wedgwood Rooms.
But bigger acts tend to avoid all of them; the main time they will be in Portsmouth is for Victorious.
Whereas bigger acts regularly play Southampton Guildhall.
Oasis played Southampton Guildhall and the Joiners. Did they ever play at Portsmouth? |
Agree Pat....
The Wedgewood Rooms and Pyramids pale into indignificance when compared to one of the best music venues around in The Joiners Arms. One only has to check out the acts (as you have aluded to) that have graced that place, along with the awards it has received.
That said, in all fairness to 130, i have attended the Victorious Festival on many occasions and have to say it has always been decent on the right years. | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:46 - Jun 23 with 6097 views | 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 13:43 - Jun 23 by TripleNiemi |
Agree Pat....
The Wedgewood Rooms and Pyramids pale into indignificance when compared to one of the best music venues around in The Joiners Arms. One only has to check out the acts (as you have aluded to) that have graced that place, along with the awards it has received.
That said, in all fairness to 130, i have attended the Victorious Festival on many occasions and have to say it has always been decent on the right years. |
https://www.victoriousfestival.co.uk/
Not bad this year | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 14:11 - Jun 23 with 6060 views | PatfromPoole |
Victorious is very decent this year.
Sadly my wife wants us to go to Car Fest instead 🙄. She got fed up of the 6-mile bus trips from Farlington.
Of course if it had been held at Southampton Common, there might have been more room for camping……. | |
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| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 14:15 - Jun 23 with 6058 views | felly1 |
| Portsmouth v Southampton : The facts on 12:54 - Jun 23 by 130yrs_and_one_Cup |
A brave and honest reply.
What is common people like? Admittedly, Pompey has put all their eggs in one music festival and not two, and the location has always been a winner
Most British cities have got crap areas, and pompey is no different, but walking for miles all around the seafront and into old Portsmouth has always been good. Of course, now you can walk to Hilsea, and also to Farlington/ Havant mostly on paths/cycle lanes.
I keep saying it, but the remaing waterfront area (Mayflower park?) at Soton is a massive opportunity, but I half expect your council to mess it up, and mostly build flats/ houses.
I'm not sure about always having a shite football team, things can change very quickly in football. |
People always say our council blow opportunities to make our waterfront a nice place to eat/drink party etc.
Although I partly agree with them I do remind them we live on the edge of an estuary which means it's a stinking nudfest when the tide goes out, and we face opposite to an oil refinery and waste burning giant silver dome.
As for Common people.. We'll to be honest I've not gone to any music festivals in Southampton, but the lineup is a bit more cool and dance oriented, djs and the like.
Party in the Park is just some of the worst aspects of 80s music.
I work with loads of scaffolders and roofers from Pompey and Leigh Park.. Yes I get called Scummer sometimes but it's all good.
Bottom line is I don't give a monkeys if Pompey is more attractive to an outsider, better music venues, worse, whatever.
Southampton is my town.. My shithole.
Pompey is clearly where your happy, so we're both good. | | | |
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