| NHS workers not happy 12:56 - Jan 23 with 15106 views | GoldenBear |
Protests against mandatory vaccines. Not going down to well it seems. Looks like the Government have underestimated how this has gone down with them. |  | | |  |
| NHS workers not happy on 11:52 - Jan 24 with 1617 views | Scotia |
| NHS workers not happy on 22:58 - Jan 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
I have some questions for felix, controversial and OHL, are any of you prepared to answer honestly?
Scotia wouldn't even answer the first one.
1. Do the COVID vaccines prevent, slow down or cure cancer?
2. Do they prevent heart attacks?
3. Do they prevent strokes?
4. Do they prevent pneumonia?
5. Do they prevent death by liver or kidney failure?
Anybody prepared to answer? [Post edited 23 Jan 2022 22:59]
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I notice that you've called me out for not answering a questin in a thread I haven't contributed to.
I asked you to explain the releavnce of the first question. You haven't.
The answer to the last four questions is yes in some circumstances. |  | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 11:57 - Jan 24 with 1606 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| NHS workers not happy on 10:47 - Jan 24 by felixstowe_jack |
No but vaccines save lives, 150,000 so far. They also reduce hospital admissions and if only all people were vaccinated there would be less covoid patients in hospital.
The medical staff could then concentrate on treating heart attacks, stokes, liver and kidney failures.
PS you can actually be vaccinated against pneumonia. It is usually given to over 65s or at risk groups.
Happy to answer your questions. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 10:48]
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No hospitals anywhere are over run with Covid cases.
Please provide evidence that they are or stop repeating something that is untrue.
...and by evidence I don't mean some left-wing staff in the NHS talking shite, I mean let's see some videos of overflowing wards.
Somebody repeated an anecdote on here the other week, he quoted an NHS worker to back up his arguments. I read it and thought;
'but I know that member of staff's boss and his version of what's going on in the NHS is very different.'
Whom to believe hey?
I require evidence. |  |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
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| NHS workers not happy on 13:59 - Jan 24 with 1560 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| NHS workers not happy on 11:52 - Jan 24 by Scotia |
I notice that you've called me out for not answering a questin in a thread I haven't contributed to.
I asked you to explain the releavnce of the first question. You haven't.
The answer to the last four questions is yes in some circumstances. |
I have not "called you out", I was explaining that you wouldn't answer to show that it is obviously a contentious question.
If you don't like the reference, well that's tough.
"I asked you to explain the releavnce of the first question."
No you didn't
Quote "No. I'm not going to answer because I've never raised it.
And its a stupid question, probably with some sort of ulterior motive behind the inevitable answer that you have misunderstood. "
So can you explain the circumstances where COVID Vaccines
2. prevent heart attacks?
3. prevent strokes?
4. prevent pneumonia?
5. prevent death by liver or kidney failure?
Because if it is true we would obviously use them from now on to treat those problems wouldn't we? | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 14:01 - Jan 24 with 1560 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| NHS workers not happy on 10:47 - Jan 24 by felixstowe_jack |
No but vaccines save lives, 150,000 so far. They also reduce hospital admissions and if only all people were vaccinated there would be less covoid patients in hospital.
The medical staff could then concentrate on treating heart attacks, stokes, liver and kidney failures.
PS you can actually be vaccinated against pneumonia. It is usually given to over 65s or at risk groups.
Happy to answer your questions. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 10:48]
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I am glad to see that you had the guts to answer no to those questions.
I agree as I think most people would.
Which is why I wonder why the government would lie about it. | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 14:45 - Jan 24 with 1546 views | Scotia |
| NHS workers not happy on 13:59 - Jan 24 by A_Fans_Dad |
I have not "called you out", I was explaining that you wouldn't answer to show that it is obviously a contentious question.
If you don't like the reference, well that's tough.
"I asked you to explain the releavnce of the first question."
No you didn't
Quote "No. I'm not going to answer because I've never raised it.
And its a stupid question, probably with some sort of ulterior motive behind the inevitable answer that you have misunderstood. "
So can you explain the circumstances where COVID Vaccines
2. prevent heart attacks?
3. prevent strokes?
4. prevent pneumonia?
5. prevent death by liver or kidney failure?
Because if it is true we would obviously use them from now on to treat those problems wouldn't we? |
It's not a contentious question, I don't see the relevance of it.
Covid can cause all of those issues. Many of which kill people, these are on their death certificates. When people misrepresent stats they've obtained from FOI requests to the ONS they can claim that the death rate from covid is much lower than it is.
I know somebody who died of Kidney Failure casued by covid. He actually caught covid while receiving dialysis.
https://www.stroke.org.uk/news/does-coronavirus-cause-stroke-look-current-resear
https://www.hriuk.org/health/your-health/lifestyle/people-with-coronavirus-are-a
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n436
https://www.kidney.org/coronavirus/kidney-disease-covid-19
https://gut.bmj.com/content/69/7/1365 | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 15:54 - Jan 24 with 1513 views | howenjack |
This is a non argument ...no one should ever be forced into compulsory vaccinations as the Nuremberg rulings clearly state. The government are acting ILLEGALLY | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:02 - Jan 24 with 1510 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Who said anything about COVID? | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:09 - Jan 24 with 1499 views | Scotia |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:02 - Jan 24 by A_Fans_Dad |
Who said anything about COVID? |
You asked:-
"1. Do the COVID vaccines prevent, slow down or cure cancer?
2. Do they prevent heart attacks?
3. Do they prevent strokes?
4. Do they prevent pneumonia?
5. Do they prevent death by liver or kidney failure"
I answered yes, to the last four. Covid can cause them all, a covid vaccine goes a long way to preventing covid causing them. | | | |
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| NHS workers not happy on 16:22 - Jan 24 with 1493 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:09 - Jan 24 by Scotia |
You asked:-
"1. Do the COVID vaccines prevent, slow down or cure cancer?
2. Do they prevent heart attacks?
3. Do they prevent strokes?
4. Do they prevent pneumonia?
5. Do they prevent death by liver or kidney failure"
I answered yes, to the last four. Covid can cause them all, a covid vaccine goes a long way to preventing covid causing them. |
But these deaths had nothing to do with COVID Deaths, they were "All Cause Mortality" less Covid Deaths.
So please explain how COVID Vaccines affected Non COVID
1. cancer?
2. heart attacks?
3. strokes?
4. pneumonia?
5. liver or kidney failure
and every other desease in the UK. | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:41 - Jan 24 with 1484 views | Scotia |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:22 - Jan 24 by A_Fans_Dad |
But these deaths had nothing to do with COVID Deaths, they were "All Cause Mortality" less Covid Deaths.
So please explain how COVID Vaccines affected Non COVID
1. cancer?
2. heart attacks?
3. strokes?
4. pneumonia?
5. liver or kidney failure
and every other desease in the UK. |
They are directly the result of covid in many cases. The vaccines reduce that incidence.
Of course if you can demonstrate that there is no link to covid then please do.
That's a different question, I answered the one you asked.
What's the relevance of that question? | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:49 - Jan 24 with 1480 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:41 - Jan 24 by Scotia |
They are directly the result of covid in many cases. The vaccines reduce that incidence.
Of course if you can demonstrate that there is no link to covid then please do.
That's a different question, I answered the one you asked.
What's the relevance of that question? |
The relevence is that the government and ONS say that the Vaccines have drastically reduced all cause mortality rates even when COVID mortality is removed from the counts.
But the unvaccinated all cause mortality less COVID has gone up.
Bloody clever these COVID vaccines you know. | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:51 - Jan 24 with 1477 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:41 - Jan 24 by Scotia |
They are directly the result of covid in many cases. The vaccines reduce that incidence.
Of course if you can demonstrate that there is no link to covid then please do.
That's a different question, I answered the one you asked.
What's the relevance of that question? |
Oh wait, you don't believe in rates, so it is pointless telling you. | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 22:06 - Jan 24 with 1432 views | A_Fans_Dad |
So no takers on why the government is lying to you? | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 06:49 - Jan 25 with 1409 views | Scotia |
| NHS workers not happy on 22:06 - Jan 24 by A_Fans_Dad |
So no takers on why the government is lying to you? |
I'd have thought everyone just assumes you're misunderstanding and misrepresting data again. I do.
You haven't addressed my / 100,000 hospitalisation and death figures point yet or provided any proof that the vaccinated v unvaccinated figures are subdivided in to those groups. Of course if you can't.... | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 08:38 - Jan 25 with 1379 views | felixstowe_jack |
| NHS workers not happy on 11:57 - Jan 24 by Ajack_Kerouac |
No hospitals anywhere are over run with Covid cases.
Please provide evidence that they are or stop repeating something that is untrue.
...and by evidence I don't mean some left-wing staff in the NHS talking shite, I mean let's see some videos of overflowing wards.
Somebody repeated an anecdote on here the other week, he quoted an NHS worker to back up his arguments. I read it and thought;
'but I know that member of staff's boss and his version of what's going on in the NHS is very different.'
Whom to believe hey?
I require evidence. |
Over 17,000 covoid patients are being treated in hospital with 640 on ventilators. How much evidence do you need. | |
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| NHS workers not happy on 08:41 - Jan 25 with 1377 views | felixstowe_jack |
| NHS workers not happy on 16:49 - Jan 24 by A_Fans_Dad |
The relevence is that the government and ONS say that the Vaccines have drastically reduced all cause mortality rates even when COVID mortality is removed from the counts.
But the unvaccinated all cause mortality less COVID has gone up.
Bloody clever these COVID vaccines you know. |
Vaccines have saved 150,000 lives so far and reduced hospital admissions by 100,000s as well. | |
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| NHS workers not happy on 08:43 - Jan 25 with 1376 views | felixstowe_jack |
| NHS workers not happy on 22:06 - Jan 24 by A_Fans_Dad |
So no takers on why the government is lying to you? |
Can you provide evidence that the government are lying about the number of deaths and covoid cases. | |
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| NHS workers not happy on 09:05 - Jan 25 with 1364 views | yatesie3 |
Yes | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 12:21 - Jan 25 with 1337 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| NHS workers not happy on 08:43 - Jan 25 by felixstowe_jack |
Can you provide evidence that the government are lying about the number of deaths and covoid cases. |
At last someone with the guts to ask.
Of course you have to read the data which also takes guts to do.
The data is here in an FOI reply dated 9 December 2021.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi
Here is the relevant table
Table 1: Age-standardised mortality rates for all deaths and deaths involving COVID-19, England, deaths occurring between 2 January and 24 September 2021 Age-standardised mortality rate per 100,000 person-years
(95% confidence interval)
Vaccination status Deaths involving COVID-19 All deaths
Unvaccinated 849.7 (840.3, 859.2) 2,187.1 (2,172.2, 2,202.0)
Received only the first dose, less than 21 days ago 192.4 (182.4, 202.4) 811.9 (793.4, 830.4)
Received only the first dose, at least 21 days ago 105.3 (102.8, 107.8) 1,124.3 (1,115.9, 1,132.7)
Received the second dose, less than 21 days ago 7.2 (6.1, 8.2) 464.6 (455.8, 473.4)
Received the second dose, at least 21 days ago 26.2 (25.4, 27.1) 783.6 (779.1, 788)
The average All Cause Mortality for the previous 5 years is 948 therefore when COVID deaths are subtracted from All Cause Mortality we should end up somewhere around 948.
This is what you get if you do so.
Unvaccinated = 1337.4
Received only the first dose, less than 21 days ago = 619.5
Received only the first dose, at least 21 days ago = 1019
Received the second dose, less than 21 days ago = 457.4
Received the second dose, at least 21 days ago = 757.4
So you can see that "Received the second dose, less than 21 days ago" has less than half of the 5 year average of dying from everything else.
The "Received only the first dose, less than 21 days ago = 619.5" is also much lower than the last 5 years.
Miraculous vaccines indeed. [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 12:25]
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| NHS workers not happy on 13:58 - Jan 25 with 1318 views | Scotia |
| NHS workers not happy on 12:21 - Jan 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
At last someone with the guts to ask.
Of course you have to read the data which also takes guts to do.
The data is here in an FOI reply dated 9 December 2021.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi
Here is the relevant table
Table 1: Age-standardised mortality rates for all deaths and deaths involving COVID-19, England, deaths occurring between 2 January and 24 September 2021 Age-standardised mortality rate per 100,000 person-years
(95% confidence interval)
Vaccination status Deaths involving COVID-19 All deaths
Unvaccinated 849.7 (840.3, 859.2) 2,187.1 (2,172.2, 2,202.0)
Received only the first dose, less than 21 days ago 192.4 (182.4, 202.4) 811.9 (793.4, 830.4)
Received only the first dose, at least 21 days ago 105.3 (102.8, 107.8) 1,124.3 (1,115.9, 1,132.7)
Received the second dose, less than 21 days ago 7.2 (6.1, 8.2) 464.6 (455.8, 473.4)
Received the second dose, at least 21 days ago 26.2 (25.4, 27.1) 783.6 (779.1, 788)
The average All Cause Mortality for the previous 5 years is 948 therefore when COVID deaths are subtracted from All Cause Mortality we should end up somewhere around 948.
This is what you get if you do so.
Unvaccinated = 1337.4
Received only the first dose, less than 21 days ago = 619.5
Received only the first dose, at least 21 days ago = 1019
Received the second dose, less than 21 days ago = 457.4
Received the second dose, at least 21 days ago = 757.4
So you can see that "Received the second dose, less than 21 days ago" has less than half of the 5 year average of dying from everything else.
The "Received only the first dose, less than 21 days ago = 619.5" is also much lower than the last 5 years.
Miraculous vaccines indeed. [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 12:25]
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Is that per 100,000 subdivided in to dead people and alive people? | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 14:11 - Jan 25 with 1302 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| NHS workers not happy on 13:58 - Jan 25 by Scotia |
Is that per 100,000 subdivided in to dead people and alive people? |
I am amazed that you aren't crowing about the COVID stats shown here
Unvaccinated = 849.7
Received the second dose, less than 21 days ago = 7.2
100 times better for the vaccinated, isn't that even better than you dreamed?
Even the other second dose is brilliant
Received the second dose, at least 21 days ago =26.2 which is 30 times better than unvaccinated. | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 14:27 - Jan 25 with 1285 views | Scotia |
| NHS workers not happy on 14:11 - Jan 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
I am amazed that you aren't crowing about the COVID stats shown here
Unvaccinated = 849.7
Received the second dose, less than 21 days ago = 7.2
100 times better for the vaccinated, isn't that even better than you dreamed?
Even the other second dose is brilliant
Received the second dose, at least 21 days ago =26.2 which is 30 times better than unvaccinated. |
Why do you think that is the case? Isn't it obvious?
Is that per 100,000 subdivided in to dead people and alive people? | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 15:01 - Jan 25 with 1276 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| NHS workers not happy on 14:27 - Jan 25 by Scotia |
Why do you think that is the case? Isn't it obvious?
Is that per 100,000 subdivided in to dead people and alive people? |
Do you fail to understand what a population is?
It the sum total of all the people in that group. They use that total to divide in to the deaths in that group and then multiply by 100,000, it could be by 100 ie percentage or by a million to get per million.
Even secondary school kids know how it works. | | | |
| NHS workers not happy on 15:07 - Jan 25 with 1271 views | Scotia |
| NHS workers not happy on 15:01 - Jan 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
Do you fail to understand what a population is?
It the sum total of all the people in that group. They use that total to divide in to the deaths in that group and then multiply by 100,000, it could be by 100 ie percentage or by a million to get per million.
Even secondary school kids know how it works. |
What are the groups in this case? The dead and the undead? The hospitalised and the not hospitalised?
The "population" refers to the population of the country and the likelihood of occurence per 100,000 people in the population.
Unless of course you can prove otherwise, but this is what it states in ONS documents:-
"Mortality rates for deaths due to COVID-19 in England decreased to 56.3 deaths per 100,000 people in December 2021 from 69.3 in November. In Wales, the mortality rate decreased to 59.3 deaths per 100,000 people in December 2021 from 106.4 in November."
"The hospital admission rate of COVID-19-confirmed patients in England decreased to 17.62 per 100,000 people in the week ending 16 January 2022. Admission rates decreased in seven out of nine English regions."
The vaccinated hospital admissions and deaths are derived from these figures.
Also you haven't answered this regarding the incredible efficacy of a single dose of vaccine.
"Why do you think that is the case? Isn't it obvious?" [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 15:15]
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| NHS workers not happy on 15:40 - Jan 25 with 1252 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| NHS workers not happy on 15:07 - Jan 25 by Scotia |
What are the groups in this case? The dead and the undead? The hospitalised and the not hospitalised?
The "population" refers to the population of the country and the likelihood of occurence per 100,000 people in the population.
Unless of course you can prove otherwise, but this is what it states in ONS documents:-
"Mortality rates for deaths due to COVID-19 in England decreased to 56.3 deaths per 100,000 people in December 2021 from 69.3 in November. In Wales, the mortality rate decreased to 59.3 deaths per 100,000 people in December 2021 from 106.4 in November."
"The hospital admission rate of COVID-19-confirmed patients in England decreased to 17.62 per 100,000 people in the week ending 16 January 2022. Admission rates decreased in seven out of nine English regions."
The vaccinated hospital admissions and deaths are derived from these figures.
Also you haven't answered this regarding the incredible efficacy of a single dose of vaccine.
"Why do you think that is the case? Isn't it obvious?" [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 15:15]
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No it does not refer to the population of the country, it refers to the population as designated for each age group and then split in to those that are vaccinated and those that are not.
Which is then subdivided in to the population of each of those in the vaccinated status group.
From the ONS User guide to mortality statistics
Age-specific death rates
Age-specific death rates may be calculated for each age group. These are defined as the number of deaths in the age group per 1,000 population in the same age group or:
M[k] = (d[k] divided by p[k]) times 1,000
where
M[k] = age-specific death rate for age group k
d[k] = deaths in age group k
p[k] = population in age group k (mid-year population estimates with the exception for the rate for those aged under one year old where the number of live births are used instead)
[] = age | | | |
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