| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread 15:41 - Dec 24 with 28382 views | KeithHaynes |
Mr Johnson thanks people on all sides for "finding the philosophers stone" to get a deal.
He adds: "This deal above all means certainty, for the aviation industry, the hauliers... the police, the border forces, and all those that keep us safe.
"It means certainty for our scientists who will be able to work together on great collective projects.
"But above all it means certainty for business." |  |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 14:43 - Jan 3 with 1723 views | Whiterockin |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 03:32 - Jan 3 by deanscfc |
Good question. And the reason it's a good question is because the British media did an absolutely terrible (in my opinion deliberately), terrible job of explaining what was also being lost with the removal of free movement rights.
With free movement, all British people had the rights to 30 countries of their own continent. That's the EU 27 countries plus 3 EEA countries. We had the right to live and work there as if that land was our own. All you needed was to have sufficient funds to look after yourself and not to be a serious criminal/security risk to the country. If you were a young Brit and wanted to learn German for example, you could make the move, find an apartment, and look for jobs working in a bar, in a supermarket, doing labouring etc etc...pretty much any job you wanted. Same in any of those EU countries. You could also apply for pretty much any job in those 30 countries online or while there.
With the loss of Free Movement that right has gone. As a non-EU citizen, you have no rights. You can only hope to get into one of those countries via a type of visa, if it is on offer to someone with your educational background/skills. So for me, I can no longer work in any job throughout the rest of my own continent like before...but I may be able to get a job working in IT, because I have a degree in Computing. But, here's the problem...The vast majority of jobs in the EU are only even open to EU citizens. If you go on a job board and look for jobs in say Germany, or the Netherlands, the vast majority of jobs will say something like 'applicant must be an EU citizen, both now and in future (the last bit was basically a 'Brits need not apply'). In the last year or two, I must have applied for at least 100 jobs in the EU, and every time I either got rejected with no reason, or I got given a reason alluding to the politics of the situation. I could however get an IT job here in the UK easily enough.
Now, of course some jobs are open to non-EU citizens. Most aren't but some are. But then there's another catch. Many countries have a rule where even if a job is open to applicants from anywhere in the world, an employer must be able to prove that before employing a non-EU citizen, they could not find any EU citizen that could do the job. The EU is a single market of hundreds of millions of people - in the vast majority of cases they are going to be able to find someone else who could do the job before a Brit.
So that's that. Not only are most British people now not even eligible for jobs throughout 30 countries of their own continent, even if they are eligible, they are at the back of the queue and really unlikely to get it. So the dreams of having the life experience of working both away yet relatively close to home alongside the canals of Amsterdam are pretty much gone...same in Berlin, Cologne, Brussels etc etc. Also, the days of a youngster being able to go and work in a bar in Spain or Portugal, or maybe even work as a ski instructor...all very likely gone (unless somehow a country changes their rules which is really unlikely). When I speak to leavers they seem surprised that it's not 'as easy as filling out a paper form'. No, it's really, really not.
So anyway, we genuinely did just give away our rights to freely live and work throughout our own continent...not just for ourselves, but for our kids and grandkids. And to me, that is a massive shame. I've been lucky enough to travel through various countries of Europe and I have good friends in some European cities. It genuinely hurts to know that there is now a big barrier between us, and whereas before I could consider the idea of living near them for a while (or more if I like it), now I cannot. Some people might still manage it if they are particularly qualified or skilled in their field, but the chances are really, really slim in my opinion, and that will be the case for years now. And it's probably no surprise that Brits don't have the best reputation in Europe anymore after all the trash talk from our press. I was actually due to fly and just go after a year of unsuccessful online applications from here...wanted to be with some mates out there who funnily enough I had got supporting the Swans...they mentioned they could sort me out with some casual job to tie me over... and then the corona second wave hit - flight was cancelled and the travel ban came in. Screwed in every way. And yeah I am really angry about it. But after weeks of feeling depressed I'm trying not to think about that now. Oh well, another 4 months of isolation in lockdown here and not a f'n clue what to do next. But hopefully the Swans keep winning. |
Please correct me if I'm wrong. The British electorate voted to leave the EU with the aim of improving life in the UK and trying to make it thrive again. You are not happy because it is not your intention to use your skills in the UK to try and improve the quality of life for the British public. You would like to turn your back on the UK and work in Europe, pay taxes in Europe and basically have an "I'm alright Jack sod you" attitude. Well if that is the case it seems even more to me that the British public made the correct decision. |  | | |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 15:12 - Jan 3 with 1693 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 14:43 - Jan 3 by Whiterockin |
Please correct me if I'm wrong. The British electorate voted to leave the EU with the aim of improving life in the UK and trying to make it thrive again. You are not happy because it is not your intention to use your skills in the UK to try and improve the quality of life for the British public. You would like to turn your back on the UK and work in Europe, pay taxes in Europe and basically have an "I'm alright Jack sod you" attitude. Well if that is the case it seems even more to me that the British public made the correct decision. |
You are wrong. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 15:15 - Jan 3 with 1690 views | Whiterockin |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 15:12 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
You are wrong. |
Opinion or fact. | | | |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 15:19 - Jan 3 with 1678 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 03:32 - Jan 3 by deanscfc |
Good question. And the reason it's a good question is because the British media did an absolutely terrible (in my opinion deliberately), terrible job of explaining what was also being lost with the removal of free movement rights.
With free movement, all British people had the rights to 30 countries of their own continent. That's the EU 27 countries plus 3 EEA countries. We had the right to live and work there as if that land was our own. All you needed was to have sufficient funds to look after yourself and not to be a serious criminal/security risk to the country. If you were a young Brit and wanted to learn German for example, you could make the move, find an apartment, and look for jobs working in a bar, in a supermarket, doing labouring etc etc...pretty much any job you wanted. Same in any of those EU countries. You could also apply for pretty much any job in those 30 countries online or while there.
With the loss of Free Movement that right has gone. As a non-EU citizen, you have no rights. You can only hope to get into one of those countries via a type of visa, if it is on offer to someone with your educational background/skills. So for me, I can no longer work in any job throughout the rest of my own continent like before...but I may be able to get a job working in IT, because I have a degree in Computing. But, here's the problem...The vast majority of jobs in the EU are only even open to EU citizens. If you go on a job board and look for jobs in say Germany, or the Netherlands, the vast majority of jobs will say something like 'applicant must be an EU citizen, both now and in future (the last bit was basically a 'Brits need not apply'). In the last year or two, I must have applied for at least 100 jobs in the EU, and every time I either got rejected with no reason, or I got given a reason alluding to the politics of the situation. I could however get an IT job here in the UK easily enough.
Now, of course some jobs are open to non-EU citizens. Most aren't but some are. But then there's another catch. Many countries have a rule where even if a job is open to applicants from anywhere in the world, an employer must be able to prove that before employing a non-EU citizen, they could not find any EU citizen that could do the job. The EU is a single market of hundreds of millions of people - in the vast majority of cases they are going to be able to find someone else who could do the job before a Brit.
So that's that. Not only are most British people now not even eligible for jobs throughout 30 countries of their own continent, even if they are eligible, they are at the back of the queue and really unlikely to get it. So the dreams of having the life experience of working both away yet relatively close to home alongside the canals of Amsterdam are pretty much gone...same in Berlin, Cologne, Brussels etc etc. Also, the days of a youngster being able to go and work in a bar in Spain or Portugal, or maybe even work as a ski instructor...all very likely gone (unless somehow a country changes their rules which is really unlikely). When I speak to leavers they seem surprised that it's not 'as easy as filling out a paper form'. No, it's really, really not.
So anyway, we genuinely did just give away our rights to freely live and work throughout our own continent...not just for ourselves, but for our kids and grandkids. And to me, that is a massive shame. I've been lucky enough to travel through various countries of Europe and I have good friends in some European cities. It genuinely hurts to know that there is now a big barrier between us, and whereas before I could consider the idea of living near them for a while (or more if I like it), now I cannot. Some people might still manage it if they are particularly qualified or skilled in their field, but the chances are really, really slim in my opinion, and that will be the case for years now. And it's probably no surprise that Brits don't have the best reputation in Europe anymore after all the trash talk from our press. I was actually due to fly and just go after a year of unsuccessful online applications from here...wanted to be with some mates out there who funnily enough I had got supporting the Swans...they mentioned they could sort me out with some casual job to tie me over... and then the corona second wave hit - flight was cancelled and the travel ban came in. Screwed in every way. And yeah I am really angry about it. But after weeks of feeling depressed I'm trying not to think about that now. Oh well, another 4 months of isolation in lockdown here and not a f'n clue what to do next. But hopefully the Swans keep winning. |
Excellent post Dean.
Our young people are very pro-European so this will be reversed within a decade.
The end game for the UK is back in the EU.
Even Johnson knows it.
The Irish border is now the Irish Sea, and Gibralter has already chosen a different future.
Scotland will be next up for Indy2.
YesCymru continues to grow.
You only need to look at Covid to test Johnsons judgement.
Japan, a densely populated island nation reported 819 new Covid cases yesterday.
UK, a densely populated island nation reported 57,725 new Covid cases yesterday.
Why the difference?
We have a bunch of English nationalists in charge with nothing to offer except the union flag.
Nye was right. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:30 - Jan 3 with 1649 views | onehunglow |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 15:19 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Excellent post Dean.
Our young people are very pro-European so this will be reversed within a decade.
The end game for the UK is back in the EU.
Even Johnson knows it.
The Irish border is now the Irish Sea, and Gibralter has already chosen a different future.
Scotland will be next up for Indy2.
YesCymru continues to grow.
You only need to look at Covid to test Johnsons judgement.
Japan, a densely populated island nation reported 819 new Covid cases yesterday.
UK, a densely populated island nation reported 57,725 new Covid cases yesterday.
Why the difference?
We have a bunch of English nationalists in charge with nothing to offer except the union flag.
Nye was right. |
The complexity of this issue is manifested by the fact that two people,me and Killy,with diametrically opposite political views agree .
I believed the decision to leave was and is nuts.
Only the super rich,those with wealth assurance ,can feel truly comfortable.
Truth is nobody knows what lies ahead, brexireers hope not believe,in fact they cannot believe as it s not a fact we will be better off.
We have voted for economic suicide and yeah I hope the kids overturn it ,if they can be arsed that is. |  |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:35 - Jan 3 with 1642 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:30 - Jan 3 by onehunglow |
The complexity of this issue is manifested by the fact that two people,me and Killy,with diametrically opposite political views agree .
I believed the decision to leave was and is nuts.
Only the super rich,those with wealth assurance ,can feel truly comfortable.
Truth is nobody knows what lies ahead, brexireers hope not believe,in fact they cannot believe as it s not a fact we will be better off.
We have voted for economic suicide and yeah I hope the kids overturn it ,if they can be arsed that is. |
Respect to the Perchman. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:40 - Jan 3 with 1640 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 15:15 - Jan 3 by Whiterockin |
Opinion or fact. |
Fact.
You have no idea why people voted to leave.
Maybe some wanted to retain tax arrangements.
Others taken in by Farages anti-immigrant posters.
Some might have wanted a better life financially, others only interested in sovereignty rather than economics.
You are just guessing. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 17:30 - Jan 3 with 1628 views | onehunglow |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:40 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Fact.
You have no idea why people voted to leave.
Maybe some wanted to retain tax arrangements.
Others taken in by Farages anti-immigrant posters.
Some might have wanted a better life financially, others only interested in sovereignty rather than economics.
You are just guessing. |
Agreed Killy.
Leavers have no idea what lies ahead.NONE of us do.Thow who think we can go back deacdes when we were pre eminent in world trade can think again.
We are a small island with far fewer natural resources and far greater social /economic issues that people think will get better by leaving an organisation that is Europewide, the continent we live on. Apparently,they are not good enough for us-or so it seems. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 09:50 - Jan 4 with 1529 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:40 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Fact.
You have no idea why people voted to leave.
Maybe some wanted to retain tax arrangements.
Others taken in by Farages anti-immigrant posters.
Some might have wanted a better life financially, others only interested in sovereignty rather than economics.
You are just guessing. |
I think 17.2 people voted to leave because they wanted independence from an undemocratic EU. They were also concerned that the EU kept paying into a corrupt concept were the accounts have not been signed off for over 10 years with the EU accountants regularly stating that over a third of the EU budget cannot be accounted for.
I know you don't believe in any form of democracy unless it it an anti British democracy. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 09:58 - Jan 4 with 1524 views | onehunglow |
who asked thee 17.2/
I'm always puzzled about stats and how they come about. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 09:59 - Jan 4 with 1518 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 09:58 - Jan 4 by onehunglow |
who asked thee 17.2/
I'm always puzzled about stats and how they come about. |
The referendum asked the 17.2 who voted to leave and asked the 15.2 million who voted to remain | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 10:37 - Jan 4 with 1508 views | onehunglow |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 09:59 - Jan 4 by felixstowe_jack |
The referendum asked the 17.2 who voted to leave and asked the 15.2 million who voted to remain |
No. It did not ask WHY. You have made asumption.
I was not asked WHY I wanted to remain at all.
My son was not asked why he wanted to leave.
No reasons-just vote.
Its a clusterfark. Nobody knows what is going to happen.You (and I) but hope it turns out ok. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 22:49 - Jan 4 with 1431 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 10:37 - Jan 4 by onehunglow |
No. It did not ask WHY. You have made asumption.
I was not asked WHY I wanted to remain at all.
My son was not asked why he wanted to leave.
No reasons-just vote.
Its a clusterfark. Nobody knows what is going to happen.You (and I) but hope it turns out ok. |
Well said Perchman. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 09:32 - Jan 5 with 1404 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 22:49 - Jan 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Well said Perchman. |
Democracy has spoken the British people voted for independence. I know you are a great supporter of people having independence when they vote for it. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:22 - Jan 5 with 1386 views | onehunglow |
So to clarify,the people were not ASKED why they voted as they did,as is the case in all elections-obviously.
It is a perfect example of how fractured a country we live in where people simply cannot debate a topic without getting personal,ie,Brexiteers/Remoaners;everyone has to be labled-working class,middle class,ordinary,average,upper ,rich ,accent ,school,size of house and it is all a load of horse poo . | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 01:51 - Jan 6 with 1285 views | BarrySwan |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 17:30 - Jan 3 by onehunglow |
Agreed Killy.
Leavers have no idea what lies ahead.NONE of us do.Thow who think we can go back deacdes when we were pre eminent in world trade can think again.
We are a small island with far fewer natural resources and far greater social /economic issues that people think will get better by leaving an organisation that is Europewide, the continent we live on. Apparently,they are not good enough for us-or so it seems. |
Yawn
Bearing in mind of course you had no idea what lay ahead being in the EU.
Except of course doling out £bns of borrowed money to other countries like a generous uncle while whining about our own institutions in this country being underfunded and struggling because there's nowt in the kitty. | | | |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:14 - Jan 6 with 1214 views | onehunglow |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 01:51 - Jan 6 by BarrySwan |
Yawn
Bearing in mind of course you had no idea what lay ahead being in the EU.
Except of course doling out £bns of borrowed money to other countries like a generous uncle while whining about our own institutions in this country being underfunded and struggling because there's nowt in the kitty. |
If it's boring ,don't comment. Nobody forces you to stay awake.
We are discussing LEAVING and comments are invited a to WHY people voted to leave. They were not,which was ,as you say,also the case when we joined. We were not asked THEN,either. We didnt have a vote.It was done by Heath for his own glory.It is what it is.
Why the fook get personal .This is a perfect example what irks me so much;the utter division of our people and the inability to debate without rancour on any serious subject. Just look at the state we're in. We cannot even agree to a national full on lockdown when thousands are dying so we are not going to agree on a EU leave or remain.
Frankly, to me,it is in our genes and it does us no favours [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 11:28]
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:20 - Jan 6 with 1205 views | BarrySwan |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:14 - Jan 6 by onehunglow |
If it's boring ,don't comment. Nobody forces you to stay awake.
We are discussing LEAVING and comments are invited a to WHY people voted to leave. They were not,which was ,as you say,also the case when we joined. We were not asked THEN,either. We didnt have a vote.It was done by Heath for his own glory.It is what it is.
Why the fook get personal .This is a perfect example what irks me so much;the utter division of our people and the inability to debate without rancour on any serious subject. Just look at the state we're in. We cannot even agree to a national full on lockdown when thousands are dying so we are not going to agree on a EU leave or remain.
Frankly, to me,it is in our genes and it does us no favours [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 11:28]
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The yawn is in response to the same old moaning and whining over and over and over again.
Just get on with your life just like the rest of us will, by all means express a desire to rejoin the EU if you wish, campaign to do so if you wish but spare us the same old hackneyed cliches and whining about children's futures being destroyed etc etc etc over and over again.
Theres the best part of 200 countries worldwide that aren't in the EU
Get over it. | | | |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:36 - Jan 6 with 1201 views | felixstowe_jack |
Interesting report today a marine Scotland boat has intercepted an Irish fishing vessel trying to fish illegally within 12 miles of Scottish land. The Irish skipper claimed it was caused by confusion over Brexit. Well done Scotland for preventing this. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 13:05 - Jan 6 with 1191 views | onehunglow |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:20 - Jan 6 by BarrySwan |
The yawn is in response to the same old moaning and whining over and over and over again.
Just get on with your life just like the rest of us will, by all means express a desire to rejoin the EU if you wish, campaign to do so if you wish but spare us the same old hackneyed cliches and whining about children's futures being destroyed etc etc etc over and over again.
Theres the best part of 200 countries worldwide that aren't in the EU
Get over it. |
Trust me,Barry,there is nothing to get over apart from the attitude of much of our populace but ,at my age,I am thinking that maybe people should make the bed and lie in it,whether it stinks or not.
Good to see you still awake anyway  | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:23 - Jan 6 with 1150 views | Catullus |
As regards working in the EU,
https://www.gov.uk/working-abroad
Now OHL, Yes it's true none of us know what the future will bring outside the EU, it is equally the same for those remaining in the EU. There is no guarantee being in the EU will be a great thing, lomg term. The world isn't like that.
Likewise nobody can guarantee that the future will not turn out good for the UK now. If any of us knew the future we'd be loaded. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 04:36 - Jan 8 with 1016 views | Whiterockin |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:23 - Jan 6 by Catullus |
As regards working in the EU,
https://www.gov.uk/working-abroad
Now OHL, Yes it's true none of us know what the future will bring outside the EU, it is equally the same for those remaining in the EU. There is no guarantee being in the EU will be a great thing, lomg term. The world isn't like that.
Likewise nobody can guarantee that the future will not turn out good for the UK now. If any of us knew the future we'd be loaded. |
"If any of us knew the future we'd be loaded."
If any of us knew the future 2020 would have been so different. | | | |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 10:35 - Jan 8 with 986 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 15:12 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
You are wrong. |
You are still sadly deluded. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 10:41 - Jan 8 with 983 views | onehunglow |
No necesarily.
It's his view.Do you understand that people can disagree .Do you think what you believe is right ?Think again.Then think again.
We are in inchartered waters,the unknown ,a glorious mystery train that nobody knows where it stopping.
I am truly beginning to despair at this great land of ours and how we are falling apart as a nation.
The art of debate and respect for individual has gone and the sky is crying | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:13 - Jan 8 with 974 views | Boundy |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 10:41 - Jan 8 by onehunglow |
No necesarily.
It's his view.Do you understand that people can disagree .Do you think what you believe is right ?Think again.Then think again.
We are in inchartered waters,the unknown ,a glorious mystery train that nobody knows where it stopping.
I am truly beginning to despair at this great land of ours and how we are falling apart as a nation.
The art of debate and respect for individual has gone and the sky is crying |
One line responses from Twm Sion Cati do not constitute a reasoned nor balanced argument , fact . Any way will they change the lottery name to UK lottery instead of the Euro millions ,something else foisted upon us without consent | |
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