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So the BBC have compromised and have not banned this and Land of Hope and Glory from the Proms, an instrumental version will be played instead. Seems sensible not to be singing Britains never never never shall be slaves at a time like this, but Boris Johnson doesn’t agree. Perhaps it is time he went on a diversity course?
I haven't followed this too closely, but wasn't it a case of where there is not going to be an audience for these traditional singalong numbers, that they aren't having a singalong and are just having an instrumental? Is that what the issue is?
acts like this is just confirmation that the BBC does not have long left with it current funding method
[Post edited 25 Aug 2020 15:57]
I suppose it is helpful not rubbing the slavery thing in their faces when slavery has become a massive issue.
This is the first year for 6 years that we haven’t been to the classical music concert at Leeds Castle. There is a point where they play Land of Hope and Glory along with Rule Britannia. Everyone signs along and waves little Union jacks. A Spitfire usually flies over too at some point. It’s all a bit of fun but to be honest, it is a bit outdated and embarrassing. The world has moved on, time for us to do the same. All this bollocks about ruling the waves and not being slaves just makes us look insular and rooted in the past. There is a wonderful piece of music by Holst taken from Jupiter in his Planet Suite which makes up the hymn I Vow To Thee My Country which would be much more appropriate for the current age. Maybe time for a change?
I suppose it is helpful not rubbing the slavery thing in their faces when slavery has become a massive issue.
This is the first year for 6 years that we haven’t been to the classical music concert at Leeds Castle. There is a point where they play Land of Hope and Glory along with Rule Britannia. Everyone signs along and waves little Union jacks. A Spitfire usually flies over too at some point. It’s all a bit of fun but to be honest, it is a bit outdated and embarrassing. The world has moved on, time for us to do the same. All this bollocks about ruling the waves and not being slaves just makes us look insular and rooted in the past. There is a wonderful piece of music by Holst taken from Jupiter in his Planet Suite which makes up the hymn I Vow To Thee My Country which would be much more appropriate for the current age. Maybe time for a change?
that's nice
at least it is another nail in the coffin of the BBCs funding set up
Wints, I wish it was just for that reason, but unfortunately I think it will be the death knell for even more of our traditions. LNOTP is a fantastic evening to watch and what is wrong with the words that people are turning around to suit their own agenda?
"Britain never shall be slaves" can also be interpreted as just that, we won't accept it, but that does not mean it is celebrating the slave trade etc and all that goes with that
This is our history, like it or not, it happened rightly or wrongly I accept, but it happened. The slave trading is not something to be proud of
Sorry SOG, but I'm glad Boris said what he did. Imagine the uproar if they stopped the Notting Hill Carnival which is primarily a black persons domain with their traditional music, dancing etc
We are just wiping the past aside. Ok, none of it would be accepted nowadays and quite rightly, but you must keep traditions and the Proms are in that bracket.
Others will totally disagree with me I know and this is just my opinion but when I go to these classical concerts (I've been to a few) where they end with a flag waving prom type atmosphere, not once do I think those words celebrate what happened 150+ years ago,
I suppose it is helpful not rubbing the slavery thing in their faces when slavery has become a massive issue.
This is the first year for 6 years that we haven’t been to the classical music concert at Leeds Castle. There is a point where they play Land of Hope and Glory along with Rule Britannia. Everyone signs along and waves little Union jacks. A Spitfire usually flies over too at some point. It’s all a bit of fun but to be honest, it is a bit outdated and embarrassing. The world has moved on, time for us to do the same. All this bollocks about ruling the waves and not being slaves just makes us look insular and rooted in the past. There is a wonderful piece of music by Holst taken from Jupiter in his Planet Suite which makes up the hymn I Vow To Thee My Country which would be much more appropriate for the current age. Maybe time for a change?
Just think about it for a minute. What if we were told not to sing "Oh when the Saints go marching in", as there are some slim links with something negative in the past? What would you think, if were banned from singing this as fans, because it supposedly makes people a little less offended by the world? What about shoot the Pompey scum - inciting violence? Reminds people of the shooting in America? We know we don't actually mean we will shoot a Pompey fan - it's just a song!!
The lyrics at the proms don't mention colour, it is just a song. I think it's going too far and all these steps don't have any impact whatsoever anyway. The racists will still be racist, in fact you could argue it will make them worse.
Ah OK, fair enough. I have no issue with people enjoying themselves singing those songs, but some of the lyrics probably don't stand up too well to modern standards. But also, Saints aren't by far the greatest team the world has ever seen either, but I still sing it. I do have a bit of an issue with our national anthem, but that is primarily because it is dull, out of date and not unique.
As an aside, I went to the Royal Albert Hall for a Paul Heaton gig a couple of years ago and did laugh at the sight of thousands of hammer and sickle flags where I had previously enjoyed seeing the Union Flag at Last Night of the Proms. The EU flags at last years Proms were also a nice touch
Just think about it for a minute. What if we were told not to sing "Oh when the Saints go marching in", as there are some slim links with something negative in the past? What would you think, if were banned from singing this as fans, because it supposedly makes people a little less offended by the world? What about shoot the Pompey scum - inciting violence? Reminds people of the shooting in America? We know we don't actually mean we will shoot a Pompey fan - it's just a song!!
The lyrics at the proms don't mention colour, it is just a song. I think it's going too far and all these steps don't have any impact whatsoever anyway. The racists will still be racist, in fact you could argue it will make them worse.
[Post edited 25 Aug 2020 17:16]
Have to agree with that SFJ, and probably put more succinctly than my ramble
And re your last statement, that is also what I believe. All of this ongoing "stuff" is making the country more divisive, not unified
Not overly amused that YNWA has been added to the set list.
Given that Scousers seem to generally be increasingly anti-English (as we have discussed a few times on here previously) it rather grates that their anthem is now deemed suitable for a celebration of this country’s heritage.
Just think about it for a minute. What if we were told not to sing "Oh when the Saints go marching in", as there are some slim links with something negative in the past? What would you think, if were banned from singing this as fans, because it supposedly makes people a little less offended by the world? What about shoot the Pompey scum - inciting violence? Reminds people of the shooting in America? We know we don't actually mean we will shoot a Pompey fan - it's just a song!!
The lyrics at the proms don't mention colour, it is just a song. I think it's going too far and all these steps don't have any impact whatsoever anyway. The racists will still be racist, in fact you could argue it will make them worse.
[Post edited 25 Aug 2020 17:16]
will they now ban nursery rhymes like "Ring a Ring a Rosies" or "Goosey, Goosey Gander" which stem from the Black Death plague
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's off with her head
Wints, I wish it was just for that reason, but unfortunately I think it will be the death knell for even more of our traditions. LNOTP is a fantastic evening to watch and what is wrong with the words that people are turning around to suit their own agenda?
"Britain never shall be slaves" can also be interpreted as just that, we won't accept it, but that does not mean it is celebrating the slave trade etc and all that goes with that
This is our history, like it or not, it happened rightly or wrongly I accept, but it happened. The slave trading is not something to be proud of
Sorry SOG, but I'm glad Boris said what he did. Imagine the uproar if they stopped the Notting Hill Carnival which is primarily a black persons domain with their traditional music, dancing etc
We are just wiping the past aside. Ok, none of it would be accepted nowadays and quite rightly, but you must keep traditions and the Proms are in that bracket.
Others will totally disagree with me I know and this is just my opinion but when I go to these classical concerts (I've been to a few) where they end with a flag waving prom type atmosphere, not once do I think those words celebrate what happened 150+ years ago,
The wokes are taking over! God help them
I think that the Notting Hill Carnival is just a celebration of culture though rather than Empire, subjugation and all that entails. I don’t think we should be embarrassed about our past, but perhaps it is time to leave it in the past rather than continuing to celebrate it?
I think that the Notting Hill Carnival is just a celebration of culture though rather than Empire, subjugation and all that entails. I don’t think we should be embarrassed about our past, but perhaps it is time to leave it in the past rather than continuing to celebrate it?
What are the crime stats for the Notting Hill carnival compares to the last night of the proms?
You never did answer my question about showing me where I want the BBC gone?
It was he who decided to make something up about what I said ......as he normally does
Glad to hear that you don’t want the BBC gone but saying it is another nail in their funding coffin doesn’t exactly make you sound supportive does it. What are the crime figures at the NHC and the last night of the Proms got to do with using Victorian lyrics extolling the virtues of Empire in a song?
Glad to hear that you don’t want the BBC gone but saying it is another nail in their funding coffin doesn’t exactly make you sound supportive does it. What are the crime figures at the NHC and the last night of the Proms got to do with using Victorian lyrics extolling the virtues of Empire in a song?
Glad to hear that you don’t want the BBC gone but saying it is another nail in their funding coffin doesn’t exactly make you sound supportive does it. What are the crime figures at the NHC and the last night of the Proms got to do with using Victorian lyrics extolling the virtues of Empire in a song?
So you don't want to use land of hope and glory written in 1901 but Holst is fine written 13 years later during WW1 when all the commonwealth troops were fighting and dieting for us. Perhaps Vera Lynn should be banned ?
Glad to hear that you don’t want the BBC gone but saying it is another nail in their funding coffin doesn’t exactly make you sound supportive does it. What are the crime figures at the NHC and the last night of the Proms got to do with using Victorian lyrics extolling the virtues of Empire in a song?
on the contrary, I think the BBC would flourish if if made to fight for its meal ticket. It would no longer be pegged down by the impartiality conflict.
I may even decide to pay for it. I may not. The choice in this day and age is what matters.
on the contrary, I think the BBC would flourish if if made to fight for its meal ticket. It would no longer be pegged down by the impartiality conflict.
I may even decide to pay for it. I may not. The choice in this day and age is what matters.
The BBC will become a very different animal if it has to fend totally for itself and the changes may not be for the better. Many of the services it provides worldwide may have to go as they won’t be financially viable.At the moment it costs us each less than a pint a week. The BBC along with the NHS are reasons that we can still be proud of our British institutions. If they both end up having to pay their own way they will never be the same again. The impartiality thing to me is a good thing. We see the way that impartial broadcasters work (Murdoch’s media outlets for example).
The BBC will become a very different animal if it has to fend totally for itself and the changes may not be for the better. Many of the services it provides worldwide may have to go as they won’t be financially viable.At the moment it costs us each less than a pint a week. The BBC along with the NHS are reasons that we can still be proud of our British institutions. If they both end up having to pay their own way they will never be the same again. The impartiality thing to me is a good thing. We see the way that impartial broadcasters work (Murdoch’s media outlets for example).
Sod the BBC and over paid types like Gary Lineker. Quite simple, I’ve just cancelled my licence.
I think the BBC does a fantastic job. Some of the programmes and documentaries that it makes are the envy of the world, the educational materials it produces have been a godsend for me as my kids have progressed through school, the radio output is unrivalled with 6Music seemingly tailor made for me at times.
People from both sides of the political debate complain it is biased against their side, and that suggests it is doing something right. It probably does need to reform, Gary Lineker is one who is no doubt paid too much, but we should also take care of it, as it could be a lot worse.
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