| The plane over the Etihad on 13:34 - Jun 23 with 1571 views | jack247 |
| The plane over the Etihad on 12:01 - Jun 23 by Arthur_from_OTB |
Is “White Lives Matter” a true statement?
Yes, but it is wrong to say it. So that means it is wrong to tell the truth.
No. That means white lives don’t matter. |
Context Arthur, context. |  | |  |
| The plane over the Etihad on 13:59 - Jun 23 with 1525 views | chad |
| The plane over the Etihad on 12:47 - Jun 23 by karnataka |
With regard to the OP and whether or not Burnley can ban the perpetrators, it is not a matter of whether or not any laws have been broken, Turf Moor is a private premises so Burnley FC can ban anyone they like for whatever reasons they choose, the same as the owners of any private premises anywhere in the country. It is entirely up to them. |
Is that true, surely law comes into it?
I thought what you claim was very much not the case.
Like if their motives were discriminatory
For instance if the person was gay or if they supported BLM as examples and were banned because of that. |  | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:08 - Jun 23 with 1512 views | ymaohyd |
I must be missing something about this WLM banner issue.
I haven't been racist towards anyone in my life, when going to Uni most of my friends were black or from other ethnic minority backgrounds.
Years ago when in Cardiff, I helped a black woman carry some bags to her car when it was piss+ng down, she turned around and said that it was the kindest thing anyone had done for her the years that she had lived in Cardiff, a lovely comment that I still think about now.
Not saying this banner was right but in the week when more white people have been killed by another asylum seeking nut job, don't really get the outpouring of self disgust. |  |
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| The plane over the Etihad on 14:21 - Jun 23 with 1489 views | Sirjohnalot |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:08 - Jun 23 by ymaohyd |
I must be missing something about this WLM banner issue.
I haven't been racist towards anyone in my life, when going to Uni most of my friends were black or from other ethnic minority backgrounds.
Years ago when in Cardiff, I helped a black woman carry some bags to her car when it was piss+ng down, she turned around and said that it was the kindest thing anyone had done for her the years that she had lived in Cardiff, a lovely comment that I still think about now.
Not saying this banner was right but in the week when more white people have been killed by another asylum seeking nut job, don't really get the outpouring of self disgust. |
White people were not killed due to their colour, had they been black, Indian, Asian, or any other colour who just happened to get in his way, they’d have been killed.
White people are not targeted due to their colour, white people are not (as someone I witnessed in a trial I did last year) complained about by a member of the jury in a note passed to the judge as asked to leave the public gallery when dressed in a suit as they thought they were gang members and intimidating the jury (they were on work experience in a Barrister’s chambers). White people are not racially abused in the street. White people are not targeted by idiots in the US, including the President, they do not have the equivalent of the KKK still marching through streets, they do not have far right idiots in this country, racially abusing them, they do not have statues in Bristol celebrating known slave masters.
As much as I love Fawlty Towers they don’t have characters like the Major using racially abusive words and still being shown today.
I live in Manchester, when the bomb went off and the slogan ‘I 💔 Manchester’ and ‘Manchester together’ was prominent, no one said ‘what about Leeds ?’ When Boston happened and we had ‘Boston Strong’, no one said ‘What about Chicago ?
It’s the same argument that when gay pride marches happening, people demand ‘straight pride’. It’s nonsense. No one is saying that white lives don’t also matter, but until black people obtain equivalence, it will still be necessary. |  | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:25 - Jun 23 with 1480 views | Darran |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:21 - Jun 23 by Sirjohnalot |
White people were not killed due to their colour, had they been black, Indian, Asian, or any other colour who just happened to get in his way, they’d have been killed.
White people are not targeted due to their colour, white people are not (as someone I witnessed in a trial I did last year) complained about by a member of the jury in a note passed to the judge as asked to leave the public gallery when dressed in a suit as they thought they were gang members and intimidating the jury (they were on work experience in a Barrister’s chambers). White people are not racially abused in the street. White people are not targeted by idiots in the US, including the President, they do not have the equivalent of the KKK still marching through streets, they do not have far right idiots in this country, racially abusing them, they do not have statues in Bristol celebrating known slave masters.
As much as I love Fawlty Towers they don’t have characters like the Major using racially abusive words and still being shown today.
I live in Manchester, when the bomb went off and the slogan ‘I 💔 Manchester’ and ‘Manchester together’ was prominent, no one said ‘what about Leeds ?’ When Boston happened and we had ‘Boston Strong’, no one said ‘What about Chicago ?
It’s the same argument that when gay pride marches happening, people demand ‘straight pride’. It’s nonsense. No one is saying that white lives don’t also matter, but until black people obtain equivalence, it will still be necessary. |
Great post though every time Cardiff gets something Partzy says what about Swansea. 😉 |  |
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| The plane over the Etihad on 14:26 - Jun 23 with 1476 views | Sirjohnalot |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:25 - Jun 23 by Darran |
Great post though every time Cardiff gets something Partzy says what about Swansea. 😉 |
Yeah well, that’s different ; ) | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:29 - Jun 23 with 1466 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The plane over the Etihad on 12:33 - Jun 23 by chad |
I would think it was fairly evident to most, i was employing irony
Of course I can not speak for you, because I was applying your own standards and arguments from an organisation you agreed with, to one you didn’t.
I was very pointedly dealing with equality. Or lack of the same. I thought you would admire that.
Oh I understand, I understand quite clearly, as I understand your feints and effects.
What now Lisa? Accuse me of anger, stupidity, tell me more about what I am incapable of. Easier to attack the person than the argument isn’t it. Pretend you are superior. Oh hold on, isn’t this what this is all about stopping?
Don’t forget the old pretending fact is myth, when it does not go your way. Drizz can help with that one. You know the poster that is all about equality and displays rampant ageism.
It is a shame Lisa because you can make some great points.
Division does not cure division. |
I can’t make head nor tail of that.
It’s just a brain dump of straw men arguments. | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:33 - Jun 23 with 1456 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The plane over the Etihad on 13:59 - Jun 23 by chad |
Is that true, surely law comes into it?
I thought what you claim was very much not the case.
Like if their motives were discriminatory
For instance if the person was gay or if they supported BLM as examples and were banned because of that. |
White supremacists are not a protected group under the law.
But your analogy between overt racists and gay people is charming.
It’s pointless - the number of people that are just thick as mince is terrifying. | | | |
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| The plane over the Etihad on 14:35 - Jun 23 with 1451 views | LeonWasGod |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:08 - Jun 23 by ymaohyd |
I must be missing something about this WLM banner issue.
I haven't been racist towards anyone in my life, when going to Uni most of my friends were black or from other ethnic minority backgrounds.
Years ago when in Cardiff, I helped a black woman carry some bags to her car when it was piss+ng down, she turned around and said that it was the kindest thing anyone had done for her the years that she had lived in Cardiff, a lovely comment that I still think about now.
Not saying this banner was right but in the week when more white people have been killed by another asylum seeking nut job, don't really get the outpouring of self disgust. |
And maybe that shows how big a problem this really is. That a highly offensive banner displaying the name of a white supremacist organisation can be flown at this particular time and some normal, non-racist people don't have a problem with it as shown by quite a few on here. There seems to be a concerted effort by right wing agitators to discredit BLM and their efforts seem to be gaining traction.
The response of the club, players, police, and even the airport shows how this kind of thing needs to be dealt with. It was a racist response, trying to masquerade under a claim of 'equality'. No surprise to see the knuckledragger that arranged for it idolises Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.
(The weekend attack has nothing to do with this, it's just been used as false equivalence whataboutery by those looking to discredit BLM. It has no parallel to the origins of the BLM movement. BLM was a response to institutional racism by an organisation charged with treating us fairly; terrorists clearly aren't held to such ideals). |  | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:37 - Jun 23 with 1450 views | jack247 |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:08 - Jun 23 by ymaohyd |
I must be missing something about this WLM banner issue.
I haven't been racist towards anyone in my life, when going to Uni most of my friends were black or from other ethnic minority backgrounds.
Years ago when in Cardiff, I helped a black woman carry some bags to her car when it was piss+ng down, she turned around and said that it was the kindest thing anyone had done for her the years that she had lived in Cardiff, a lovely comment that I still think about now.
Not saying this banner was right but in the week when more white people have been killed by another asylum seeking nut job, don't really get the outpouring of self disgust. |
The WLM banner is a middle finger to the BLM movement. Nothing more, nothing less. Just prejudiced idiots trying to be clever. | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:45 - Jun 23 with 1441 views | Badlands |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:37 - Jun 23 by jack247 |
The WLM banner is a middle finger to the BLM movement. Nothing more, nothing less. Just prejudiced idiots trying to be clever. |
That is vey naive.
White right terrorism is the fastest growing threat to public safety in the UK.
'Police said (2019) they and MI5, which since 2018 has taken the lead on the most serious extreme rightwing plots, were carrying out 80 investigations to stop violence fuelled by ideologies such as white supremacism and Islamophobia.'
Hitler didn't just pop up fully formed.
WLM is a response title to BLM set up by existing white supremacists in the US with links to groups in the UK (and other countries). |  |
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| The plane over the Etihad on 14:52 - Jun 23 with 1430 views | Gwyn737 |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:21 - Jun 23 by Sirjohnalot |
White people were not killed due to their colour, had they been black, Indian, Asian, or any other colour who just happened to get in his way, they’d have been killed.
White people are not targeted due to their colour, white people are not (as someone I witnessed in a trial I did last year) complained about by a member of the jury in a note passed to the judge as asked to leave the public gallery when dressed in a suit as they thought they were gang members and intimidating the jury (they were on work experience in a Barrister’s chambers). White people are not racially abused in the street. White people are not targeted by idiots in the US, including the President, they do not have the equivalent of the KKK still marching through streets, they do not have far right idiots in this country, racially abusing them, they do not have statues in Bristol celebrating known slave masters.
As much as I love Fawlty Towers they don’t have characters like the Major using racially abusive words and still being shown today.
I live in Manchester, when the bomb went off and the slogan ‘I 💔 Manchester’ and ‘Manchester together’ was prominent, no one said ‘what about Leeds ?’ When Boston happened and we had ‘Boston Strong’, no one said ‘What about Chicago ?
It’s the same argument that when gay pride marches happening, people demand ‘straight pride’. It’s nonsense. No one is saying that white lives don’t also matter, but until black people obtain equivalence, it will still be necessary. |
This is one of those times when I read a post and think to myself that nobody could possibly disagree, misunderstand or misinterpret it.
Let's see... | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:52 - Jun 23 with 1430 views | Treforys_Jack |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:33 - Jun 23 by londonlisa2001 |
White supremacists are not a protected group under the law.
But your analogy between overt racists and gay people is charming.
It’s pointless - the number of people that are just thick as mince is terrifying. |
You are turning into just another poster, who if you can't get someone to agree or challenges your viewpoint, calls them thick. You're better than that surely ! |  | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:57 - Jun 23 with 1420 views | chad |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:29 - Jun 23 by londonlisa2001 |
I can’t make head nor tail of that.
It’s just a brain dump of straw men arguments. |
And there it is :)
Look up hypocrisy, might help you
Surprised you could not correctly identify a straw man Lisa, you use it often enough | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:07 - Jun 23 with 1398 views | LeonWasGod |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:52 - Jun 23 by Gwyn737 |
This is one of those times when I read a post and think to myself that nobody could possibly disagree, misunderstand or misinterpret it.
Let's see... |
Welcome, you must be new around here  | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:10 - Jun 23 with 1394 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:57 - Jun 23 by chad |
And there it is :)
Look up hypocrisy, might help you
Surprised you could not correctly identify a straw man Lisa, you use it often enough |
“What now Lisa? Accuse me of anger, stupidity, tell me more about what I am incapable of. Easier to attack the person than the argument isn’t it. Pretend you are superior. Oh hold on, isn’t this what this is all about stopping? “
Yes Chad I do. That’s one I’ve copied from your post above.
You pretended I would say something, distorting and exaggerating for effect then criticised it even though I had never said it.
You do it all the time.
Your post made no sense. | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:23 - Jun 23 with 1374 views | Treforys_Jack |
The only way to beat racism is education and integration, telling people they shouldn't think this or shouldn't say that is never ever going to work. Telling people what to do provokes the opposite effect, it needs to be their choice and I'm a firm believer in intergration, so in a few generations time it will be eradicated almost completely, apart from the obvious extremists who will never change. | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:28 - Jun 23 with 1363 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:52 - Jun 23 by Treforys_Jack |
You are turning into just another poster, who if you can't get someone to agree or challenges your viewpoint, calls them thick. You're better than that surely ! |
There is no way of having a sensible discussion with someone who argues that a football club surely cannot ban a white supremacist if they are not able to ban a gay person.
Thick is the kindest possible explanation for the post.
I can’t be bothered any longer with any of it. There are posts made by some people on this board over the past few weeks that make me deeply ashamed to be a supporter of the same club, and, in many cases, child of the same city.
There are posts which are overtly racist, posts that support people being racist, posts that ‘can’t see anything wrong’ with racism, posts that ‘hate racism but can’t see why black people are moaning’, posts that think ‘if black lives matter then so do white lives’ (as though anyone seriously thinks that the country, media, politicians, structures of our society have EVER indicated that white lives don’t matter), posts that ‘can’t see the difference’ between discrimination by the justice system and other structures of our society and discrimination from a random individual, posts that ‘can’t see the difference’ between murder by a police officer and murder by a criminal scumbag, posts that ‘can’t see the difference’ between a slogan asking for equality with a slogan that is used by white supremacists, posts that ‘can’t see why black people are bothered by statues celebrating slave traders’ while simultaneously crying that Mars are changing the name of a brand of rice.
And now we have people pretending that because a monster murdered three white people in Reading, it’s fine to say ‘white lives matter’, when there is a ten page thread on this site about it, wall to wall coverage on the news, interviews with family and friends of the poor people that were murdered. What part of that indicates that anyone doesn’t think it matters that they were murdered?
And yet a week earlier, 2 sisters were also stabbed to death in a park in London. No one arrested as yet. Hardly any media coverage, no thread on here, no interviews with families and friends on the News at Ten. Can you guess what the difference is?
If people can’t see the issue yet, no amount of discussion will change their minds. They don’t want to listen. The status quo suits them. They may, in may case, not even realise that what they’ve said is hugely offensive. They may not realise that they live in a society which treats people differently. But they sure as hell aren’t interested when it’s pointed out to them. | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:29 - Jun 23 with 1360 views | Lohengrin |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:07 - Jun 23 by LeonWasGod |
Welcome, you must be new around here |
Trouble is, Leon, when John said that white folk aren’t targeted that’s his experience. That’s mine too and probably yours but Fieryjack, who leans about as far left as it’s possible to get without falling over, says that has been his experience of modern day Bradford I’m inclined to believe him. Are you? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| The plane over the Etihad on 15:32 - Jun 23 with 1353 views | Treforys_Jack |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:28 - Jun 23 by londonlisa2001 |
There is no way of having a sensible discussion with someone who argues that a football club surely cannot ban a white supremacist if they are not able to ban a gay person.
Thick is the kindest possible explanation for the post.
I can’t be bothered any longer with any of it. There are posts made by some people on this board over the past few weeks that make me deeply ashamed to be a supporter of the same club, and, in many cases, child of the same city.
There are posts which are overtly racist, posts that support people being racist, posts that ‘can’t see anything wrong’ with racism, posts that ‘hate racism but can’t see why black people are moaning’, posts that think ‘if black lives matter then so do white lives’ (as though anyone seriously thinks that the country, media, politicians, structures of our society have EVER indicated that white lives don’t matter), posts that ‘can’t see the difference’ between discrimination by the justice system and other structures of our society and discrimination from a random individual, posts that ‘can’t see the difference’ between murder by a police officer and murder by a criminal scumbag, posts that ‘can’t see the difference’ between a slogan asking for equality with a slogan that is used by white supremacists, posts that ‘can’t see why black people are bothered by statues celebrating slave traders’ while simultaneously crying that Mars are changing the name of a brand of rice.
And now we have people pretending that because a monster murdered three white people in Reading, it’s fine to say ‘white lives matter’, when there is a ten page thread on this site about it, wall to wall coverage on the news, interviews with family and friends of the poor people that were murdered. What part of that indicates that anyone doesn’t think it matters that they were murdered?
And yet a week earlier, 2 sisters were also stabbed to death in a park in London. No one arrested as yet. Hardly any media coverage, no thread on here, no interviews with families and friends on the News at Ten. Can you guess what the difference is?
If people can’t see the issue yet, no amount of discussion will change their minds. They don’t want to listen. The status quo suits them. They may, in may case, not even realise that what they’ve said is hugely offensive. They may not realise that they live in a society which treats people differently. But they sure as hell aren’t interested when it’s pointed out to them. |
At least you didn't call me thick  , your disdain for Swansea has been showing for a while. There are racists & bigots everywhere just not in Swansea, no need to feel ashamed of Swansea. | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:40 - Jun 23 with 1345 views | Lohengrin |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:32 - Jun 23 by Treforys_Jack |
At least you didn't call me thick , your disdain for Swansea has been showing for a while. There are racists & bigots everywhere just not in Swansea, no need to feel ashamed of Swansea. |
As this thing escalates and her new friends inevitably overstep in some repugnant fashion as their desire to create the headlines becomes a mania the entire edifice of supposition and fancy she’s created is going to come tumbling down.
She’ll not lack for company though, there’s a good half dozen on here are going to be faltering knee-deep alongside her, lamenting like Alec Guinness, ‘Oh! My God! What have I done? What have I done? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| The plane over the Etihad on 15:41 - Jun 23 with 1339 views | chad |
| The plane over the Etihad on 14:33 - Jun 23 by londonlisa2001 |
White supremacists are not a protected group under the law.
But your analogy between overt racists and gay people is charming.
It’s pointless - the number of people that are just thick as mince is terrifying. |
Oh Lisa you do make me smile, you falsely accuse me of straw man then you come up with this. You should get a job as a projectionist.
‘White supremacists are not a protected group under the law
Where did I ever suggest they were Lisa? Or even mention White Supremacists?
‘But your analogy between overt racists and gay people is charming
Never made any such analogy Lisa, just gave 2 examples of why the main legal point K made was inaccurate, which it clearly is, as in response to the OP, K said:
“it is not a matter of whether or not any laws have been broken, Turf Moor is a private premises so Burnley FC can ban anyone they like for whatever reasons they choose, the same as the owners of any private premises anywhere in the country. It is entirely up to them.”
That is a general rule K was presenting, and that was incorrect, and that is what I pointed out. I thought we might like to base our deliberations on facts rather than Lisalaw.
Still interesting to know you consider people wanting to base opinions on facts, thick as mince. Thank goodness we have self adjudged, superior people like you, to keep us in our place. You really should book yourself on an equality seminar. | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:43 - Jun 23 with 1334 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:32 - Jun 23 by Treforys_Jack |
At least you didn't call me thick , your disdain for Swansea has been showing for a while. There are racists & bigots everywhere just not in Swansea, no need to feel ashamed of Swansea. |
I have no disdain for SwanseaSo it hasn’t been showing in the slightest.
I love Swansea, it’s the best city on the planet in my view.
Stop twisting what I’m saying. Your response shows exactly why it’s impossible to have a proper discussion. I didn’t say I’m ashamed of Swansea I said I’m ashamed that some of the people on here are from Swansea. The majority of people on here seem to share my view. | | | |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:44 - Jun 23 with 1330 views | Darran |
I don’t think Chad and Lisa like each other. | |
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| The plane over the Etihad on 15:46 - Jun 23 with 1327 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The plane over the Etihad on 15:40 - Jun 23 by Lohengrin |
As this thing escalates and her new friends inevitably overstep in some repugnant fashion as their desire to create the headlines becomes a mania the entire edifice of supposition and fancy she’s created is going to come tumbling down.
She’ll not lack for company though, there’s a good half dozen on here are going to be faltering knee-deep alongside her, lamenting like Alec Guinness, ‘Oh! My God! What have I done? What have I done? |
Your descent from reasoned argument, however repugnant, into ill-informed drivel is sad to see. I mean that quite genuinely. | | | |
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