| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm 14:21 - May 11 with 19506 views | aleanddale |
How well do you think Boris came across on Sunday night?.
Bit bizarre that instead of making things crystal clear and asking for another push together the whole charade was shrouded in ambiguity.
5/10 from me. |  | | |  |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 14:21 - May 13 with 2026 views | frenzied |
Just another question..
Several mentions have been made re the high mortality rate amongst BAME groups in the uk.are those stats also seen amongst other European countries and if that is the case why are the morbidity rates within Asian and African countries so low?(thank god they are.....)
I did see something amongst all the press information/mis information which suggested the virus in some European countries was much more aggressive than found in others? | | | |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 17:11 - May 13 with 1912 views | Nigeriamark |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 14:21 - May 13 by frenzied |
Just another question..
Several mentions have been made re the high mortality rate amongst BAME groups in the uk.are those stats also seen amongst other European countries and if that is the case why are the morbidity rates within Asian and African countries so low?(thank god they are.....)
I did see something amongst all the press information/mis information which suggested the virus in some European countries was much more aggressive than found in others? |
I don't think they have given a definitive answer yet as to whether it is genetic or due to social economic factors. However I think the epidemiologists should be able to give a definitive answer given time. Poorer countries may not have the same testing or diagnosis criteria as in the west. It is also not yet known if the virus thrives less in hot direct sunlight which may be another factor ( and I am sure there are many more). Genetics don't change if you emigrate to another country so it will be interesting to see the final reasons, because what you point out seems quite odd
Of interest is that many Asian and African countries are potentially better at reacting to contagious diseases than the West. Because of HIV, Ebola, Yellow fever and other viruses in Africa, even some poor countries have good policies. Because of SARS, MERS & even Flu which often hit South East Asia first & sometimes don't even hit the rest of the world to the same degree, these countries are also used to acting more quickly
Because this is the first time we have really been hit so hard, I feel many western countries played "wait and see" for too long & they are the worse affected, & hence big differences in apparent success rates. Every 2 weeks of delay in taking action seems to have made huge differences to infection numbers and again the Epidemiologists will produce some interesting stats, although it will take some months yet |  | | |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 17:33 - May 13 with 1895 views | 49thseason |
Just as an aside, the "standard " classroom size in the UK is between just 56 and 63 Sq metres with the expectation that other rooms will be available for specialist teaching. Apparently this is the smallest space allowed in Europe with the exception of Estonia. I wonder if the bureaucrat who made the decision now regrets not making them larger? |  | | |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 18:45 - May 13 with 1842 views | isitme |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52642895
Interesting to hear Jenny Harries, England's deputy chief medical officer, talk about the "balance of risk and opportunities" when it comes to why children are returning to school.
The risk of a young child dying from coronavirus if they are infected is very slim, whereas the benefit of going to school is huge.
Out of more than 32,000 deaths during the peak of the pandemic over the last five weeks, just two have involved under 14s in England and Wales. That’s out of a population of more than 10 million.
Over the same period, more than 300 children have died from other causes. [Post edited 13 May 2020 18:45]
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 19:03 - May 13 with 1825 views | D_Alien |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 18:45 - May 13 by isitme |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52642895
Interesting to hear Jenny Harries, England's deputy chief medical officer, talk about the "balance of risk and opportunities" when it comes to why children are returning to school.
The risk of a young child dying from coronavirus if they are infected is very slim, whereas the benefit of going to school is huge.
Out of more than 32,000 deaths during the peak of the pandemic over the last five weeks, just two have involved under 14s in England and Wales. That’s out of a population of more than 10 million.
Over the same period, more than 300 children have died from other causes. [Post edited 13 May 2020 18:45]
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And the piece on returning to primary school in Denmark just before today's briefing showed how it can be done, with some imagination but tellingly, the positivity of everyone involved
The head teacher saying that there was initial reluctance by parents to send their children into school but that had dissipated after a fortnight. That's what i think will happen in the UK too
[Post edited 13 May 2020 19:04]
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 19:08 - May 13 with 1810 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 18:45 - May 13 by isitme |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52642895
Interesting to hear Jenny Harries, England's deputy chief medical officer, talk about the "balance of risk and opportunities" when it comes to why children are returning to school.
The risk of a young child dying from coronavirus if they are infected is very slim, whereas the benefit of going to school is huge.
Out of more than 32,000 deaths during the peak of the pandemic over the last five weeks, just two have involved under 14s in England and Wales. That’s out of a population of more than 10 million.
Over the same period, more than 300 children have died from other causes. [Post edited 13 May 2020 18:45]
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I could be wrong here but i think the issue is not the risk it poses to the health of children per se but the fact that kids are often symptomless carriers and the most difficult to get to social distance and observe hygiene procedures. If a family has coronavirus but is in lockdown then the limit of the virus, all things being well, is that family. If schools reopen too soon and symptomless child carriers spread it to other kids and staff and their families etc. then the contagion kicks off again. | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 19:22 - May 13 with 1790 views | 442Dale |
Further info:
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 19:52 - May 13 with 1759 views | D_Alien |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 19:08 - May 13 by BigDaveMyCock |
I could be wrong here but i think the issue is not the risk it poses to the health of children per se but the fact that kids are often symptomless carriers and the most difficult to get to social distance and observe hygiene procedures. If a family has coronavirus but is in lockdown then the limit of the virus, all things being well, is that family. If schools reopen too soon and symptomless child carriers spread it to other kids and staff and their families etc. then the contagion kicks off again. |
You're right regarding the risk factors, but its also worth pointing out that in the piece i referred to, it was reported that an initial slight increase in the number of new cases occurred after the schools went back, but that then settled and continued on a downward trend
Again, that's what i'd expect to happen in the UK too | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 20:38 - May 13 with 1717 views | tony_roch975 |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 19:52 - May 13 by D_Alien |
You're right regarding the risk factors, but its also worth pointing out that in the piece i referred to, it was reported that an initial slight increase in the number of new cases occurred after the schools went back, but that then settled and continued on a downward trend
Again, that's what i'd expect to happen in the UK too |
So, if I've understood you correctly, both you and IsItMe accept there is a greater risk of transmission by pupils (and adults) in a school environment however difficult to quantify and I think you both lean on the side of that risk being worth it when contrasted with the alternate risk to the children's schooling and associated social and health issues? I assume you also would make the choice of workers in schools or parents to take part or not in the re-opening of schools entirely free of any compulsion - legal, financial or otherwise? | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 20:55 - May 13 with 1695 views | tony_roch975 |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 19:22 - May 13 by 442Dale |
Further info:
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we have ways of making you change your mind..... | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 20:57 - May 13 with 1692 views | DaleiLama |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 20:38 - May 13 by tony_roch975 |
So, if I've understood you correctly, both you and IsItMe accept there is a greater risk of transmission by pupils (and adults) in a school environment however difficult to quantify and I think you both lean on the side of that risk being worth it when contrasted with the alternate risk to the children's schooling and associated social and health issues? I assume you also would make the choice of workers in schools or parents to take part or not in the re-opening of schools entirely free of any compulsion - legal, financial or otherwise? |
Just reading this article about the perils of exiting lockdown too quickly.
German has R>1 again now. The flipside of returning to school now and having this occur is the brakes come on again in an emergency stop. It should also be pointed out that SK had no new infections recorded, then the spike I posted about the other day. Walking a tightrope over eggshells?
https://www.ft.com/content/cf719c42-ff2f-4447-9f1c-346477724433?segmentID=5b3cb9 |  |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:19 - May 13 with 1675 views | D_Alien |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 20:38 - May 13 by tony_roch975 |
So, if I've understood you correctly, both you and IsItMe accept there is a greater risk of transmission by pupils (and adults) in a school environment however difficult to quantify and I think you both lean on the side of that risk being worth it when contrasted with the alternate risk to the children's schooling and associated social and health issues? I assume you also would make the choice of workers in schools or parents to take part or not in the re-opening of schools entirely free of any compulsion - legal, financial or otherwise? |
Speaking for myself, of course, and regarding your last point - yes. There should be no compulsion, not in this next phase at least. If the initial step proves successful then that might change. Allowing a phased return to schooling also then frees up parents to return to work where they otherwise wouldn't be able to - again, without compulsion
I'm not one of those parents, and I'm mindful of that
But also mindful that prior to lockdown, penalties were handed out to parents who dared take their children on a family holiday during term time, and the rationale was always that children couldn't - under any circumstances - afford to miss even a few days in school for fear of their future prospects being irretrievably blighted! | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:36 - May 13 with 1652 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 14:21 - May 13 by frenzied |
Just another question..
Several mentions have been made re the high mortality rate amongst BAME groups in the uk.are those stats also seen amongst other European countries and if that is the case why are the morbidity rates within Asian and African countries so low?(thank god they are.....)
I did see something amongst all the press information/mis information which suggested the virus in some European countries was much more aggressive than found in others? |
It’s as much to do with poverty, and the jobs people of BAME are doing. Not BAME politicians or rich people dying. Obviously things like diabetes which has an higher prevalence in BAME population, have an effect, but again poverty has an influence in whether someone gets diabetes like many diseases. |  |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:43 - May 13 with 1639 views | TVOS1907 |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:19 - May 13 by D_Alien |
Speaking for myself, of course, and regarding your last point - yes. There should be no compulsion, not in this next phase at least. If the initial step proves successful then that might change. Allowing a phased return to schooling also then frees up parents to return to work where they otherwise wouldn't be able to - again, without compulsion
I'm not one of those parents, and I'm mindful of that
But also mindful that prior to lockdown, penalties were handed out to parents who dared take their children on a family holiday during term time, and the rationale was always that children couldn't - under any circumstances - afford to miss even a few days in school for fear of their future prospects being irretrievably blighted! |
Re. your last point...
The difference in that situation is that actual lessons and content would be missed, as the rest of the class are being taught.
In circumstances like that, it's the responsibility of the pupils and parents to catch-up on what they missed due to their family holiday.
However, at the moment, all pupils in a class are receiving the same work, which they can then do subject to their own circumstances and family arrangements rather than by the restrictions of the school timetable. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:46 - May 13 with 1634 views | DaleiLama |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 14:21 - May 13 by frenzied |
Just another question..
Several mentions have been made re the high mortality rate amongst BAME groups in the uk.are those stats also seen amongst other European countries and if that is the case why are the morbidity rates within Asian and African countries so low?(thank god they are.....)
I did see something amongst all the press information/mis information which suggested the virus in some European countries was much more aggressive than found in others? |
There isn't much that isn't being studied about this disease and the jury appears to still be out on most of the conclusions from what I have understood, but this story in the Guardian does seem to support some kind of genetic linkage to how the virus interacts with an individuals body.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/study-of-twins-reveals-genetic-eff | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:46 - May 13 with 1633 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 18:45 - May 13 by isitme |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52642895
Interesting to hear Jenny Harries, England's deputy chief medical officer, talk about the "balance of risk and opportunities" when it comes to why children are returning to school.
The risk of a young child dying from coronavirus if they are infected is very slim, whereas the benefit of going to school is huge.
Out of more than 32,000 deaths during the peak of the pandemic over the last five weeks, just two have involved under 14s in England and Wales. That’s out of a population of more than 10 million.
Over the same period, more than 300 children have died from other causes. [Post edited 13 May 2020 18:45]
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That’s fair enough, however children can still spread the disease to other more vulnerable people, including school staff, others in their household and others who they come into contact with, even when showing no symptoms of the disease. | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:53 - May 13 with 1614 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:36 - May 13 by foreverhopefulDale |
It’s as much to do with poverty, and the jobs people of BAME are doing. Not BAME politicians or rich people dying. Obviously things like diabetes which has an higher prevalence in BAME population, have an effect, but again poverty has an influence in whether someone gets diabetes like many diseases. |
Was on ITV news tonight that in hospitals more bame staff are on the front line proportionally |  |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:57 - May 13 with 1612 views | tony_roch975 |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:53 - May 13 by rochdaleriddler |
Was on ITV news tonight that in hospitals more bame staff are on the front line proportionally |
we don't want them over here (unless it's to die for us on the front line) - sorry DA, couldn't resist. | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 22:10 - May 13 with 1582 views | D_Alien |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:43 - May 13 by TVOS1907 |
Re. your last point...
The difference in that situation is that actual lessons and content would be missed, as the rest of the class are being taught.
In circumstances like that, it's the responsibility of the pupils and parents to catch-up on what they missed due to their family holiday.
However, at the moment, all pupils in a class are receiving the same work, which they can then do subject to their own circumstances and family arrangements rather than by the restrictions of the school timetable. |
Good point
If the pupils taken out of school are then able, with their parents, to fulfil that responsibility to catch up, there should be no fine. It's intended to discourage therefore, rather than evidence of irretrievable loss of schooling
I just don't think that one rationale can be put forward but then put aside in different circumstances, and if some pupils return to school on schedule as the lockdown is eased, whilst others don't, and without compulsion, that rather backs up my point | |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 22:23 - May 13 with 1569 views | D_Alien |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 21:57 - May 13 by tony_roch975 |
we don't want them over here (unless it's to die for us on the front line) - sorry DA, couldn't resist. |
Not sure how that relates to me, unless you're referring to my own previous experience?
Clinical staff reach the 'front line' on merit in the NHS, although care homes might be a different matter - but it's entirely scurrilous for anyone to suggest that BAME staff are 'placed' on the front line; there may be an imbalance for reasons such as not being able to recruit sufficient local staff and therefore recruitment is sought from overseas, as with crop pickers for instance, i.e.without making a skills comparison
[Post edited 13 May 2020 22:27]
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 22:33 - May 13 with 1548 views | TVOS1907 |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 22:10 - May 13 by D_Alien |
Good point
If the pupils taken out of school are then able, with their parents, to fulfil that responsibility to catch up, there should be no fine. It's intended to discourage therefore, rather than evidence of irretrievable loss of schooling
I just don't think that one rationale can be put forward but then put aside in different circumstances, and if some pupils return to school on schedule as the lockdown is eased, whilst others don't, and without compulsion, that rather backs up my point |
That would depend on what provision was being made for those pupils in school compared to those out of school. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 22:49 - May 13 with 1531 views | D_Alien |
| Boris update - Sunday 10th May at 7pm on 22:33 - May 13 by TVOS1907 |
That would depend on what provision was being made for those pupils in school compared to those out of school. |
It would, and I'll defer to your professional knowledge of such circumstances | |
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