| VAR 18:41 - Nov 3 with 6279 views | monmouth |
Shite
FA f*ck things up again. |  |
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| VAR on 13:46 - Nov 4 with 1831 views | swan65split |
| VAR on 12:08 - Nov 4 by ploppy |
Haven't seen the incident in question, but if a player receives attention as a result of a foul for which the opposing player is booked, the player receiving attention doesn't have to leave the field. |
Not sure if player was booked TBH , but was mentioned by the commentators. who never had a good word to say about the ref. |  | | |
| VAR on 17:21 - Nov 4 with 1778 views | Highjack |
It needs to be scrapped completely until they can come up with a clear set of rules and make it actually work without spoiling the flow of the game. The last thing we want as fans is for football to become like the borefest of rugby where every action has to be checked meticulously for several minutes for some infringement somewhere.
Of course none of this would be needed if the referees were competent in the first place. |  |
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| VAR on 17:53 - Nov 4 with 1763 views | SkipTheJack |
However tedious it is to wait for VAR to make a decision, it's still better than seeing your club getting mugged by a rubbish decision in a vital game.
If VAR had been used at the Liberty last season we'd quite probably have been in a FA Cup semi final at Wembley. |  | | |
| VAR on 18:06 - Nov 4 with 1752 views | ploppy |
| VAR on 17:53 - Nov 4 by SkipTheJack |
However tedious it is to wait for VAR to make a decision, it's still better than seeing your club getting mugged by a rubbish decision in a vital game.
If VAR had been used at the Liberty last season we'd quite probably have been in a FA Cup semi final at Wembley. |
Yes, but I'm sure we've benefitted from incorrect decisions in the past. Ashley Williams regularly fouled or handballed in our area.
Regarding the match against Man C: the non-penalty was so obvious it shouldn't have needed VAR - that was just incompetence. And Aguero's toe being offside is one of those ridiculous offsides that should never be given - like Firmino's armpit last weekend. |  | | |
| VAR on 18:51 - Nov 4 with 1725 views | monmouth |
| VAR on 18:06 - Nov 4 by ploppy |
Yes, but I'm sure we've benefitted from incorrect decisions in the past. Ashley Williams regularly fouled or handballed in our area.
Regarding the match against Man C: the non-penalty was so obvious it shouldn't have needed VAR - that was just incompetence. And Aguero's toe being offside is one of those ridiculous offsides that should never be given - like Firmino's armpit last weekend. |
Saw an interesting proposal that to stop the offside nonsense that if any part of the body was onside, then it’s onside. I find that persuasive. | |
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| VAR on 19:30 - Nov 4 with 1698 views | ploppy |
| VAR on 18:51 - Nov 4 by monmouth |
Saw an interesting proposal that to stop the offside nonsense that if any part of the body was onside, then it’s onside. I find that persuasive. |
Trouble is, you could then be onside by a toe. I say give VAR 10secs to make a decision (or 20, or 30, but certainly not 2mins) and don't allow them to project lines from parts of the body to offside lines on the ground. It's nonsense. Identifying whether a part of the body is offside is as subjective as the original decision in many cases. If it's that close, then it's probably within the margin of error of the VAR system, so let it go. | | | |
| VAR on 19:44 - Nov 4 with 1687 views | Highjack |
| VAR on 19:30 - Nov 4 by ploppy |
Trouble is, you could then be onside by a toe. I say give VAR 10secs to make a decision (or 20, or 30, but certainly not 2mins) and don't allow them to project lines from parts of the body to offside lines on the ground. It's nonsense. Identifying whether a part of the body is offside is as subjective as the original decision in many cases. If it's that close, then it's probably within the margin of error of the VAR system, so let it go. |
Quite. The whole point of VAR was to correct “clear and obvious errors”. How the hell is a linesman supposed to spot in real time that for example Firmino’s hand is about an inch offside when it takes a team of people five minutes with multiple camera angles and freeze frame recordings to just about come to a decision that can still be disputed?
It’s an absolute nonsense the way it’s been implemented so far. | |
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| VAR on 20:58 - Nov 4 with 1664 views | NotLoyal |
| VAR on 18:06 - Nov 4 by ploppy |
Yes, but I'm sure we've benefitted from incorrect decisions in the past. Ashley Williams regularly fouled or handballed in our area.
Regarding the match against Man C: the non-penalty was so obvious it shouldn't have needed VAR - that was just incompetence. And Aguero's toe being offside is one of those ridiculous offsides that should never be given - like Firmino's armpit last weekend. |
I still maintain that wasn't incompetence just unconscious bias. |  |
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| VAR on 21:09 - Nov 4 with 1654 views | monmouth |
| VAR on 20:58 - Nov 4 by NotLoyal |
I still maintain that wasn't incompetence just unconscious bias. |
Yep, happens all the time in all sports. Sometimes it's concious bias. | |
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| VAR on 21:11 - Nov 4 with 1649 views | jack2jack |
What's the point of the pitch side monitors, I've yet to see a ref going over to look at them, all seems a bit of a mess ATM. |  | | |
| VAR on 07:09 - Nov 5 with 1589 views | ladyjack |
| VAR on 20:58 - Nov 4 by NotLoyal |
I still maintain that wasn't incompetence just unconscious bias. |
Its often unconscious bias which is usually a big advantage to the bigger teams. |  | | |
| VAR on 14:00 - Nov 5 with 1549 views | ploppy |
I honestly don't think there's any bias by referees - conscious or otherwise. It's just that they're so easily conned by players diving. I mean, why would Sterling have gone to ground against us? He must have been fouled, surely? And the argument that the big teams get the pelanty decisions is nonsense also. The fact is, the better teams spend more time in the opposition penalty area so on balance they will get more penalties. Diving isn't confined to the better teams either. If you ever watch the EFL show on Quest, there's some well dodgy diving goes on in the lower leagues. And the refs are equally as clueless there. | | | |
| VAR on 14:51 - Nov 5 with 1524 views | ladyjack |
| VAR on 14:00 - Nov 5 by ploppy |
I honestly don't think there's any bias by referees - conscious or otherwise. It's just that they're so easily conned by players diving. I mean, why would Sterling have gone to ground against us? He must have been fouled, surely? And the argument that the big teams get the pelanty decisions is nonsense also. The fact is, the better teams spend more time in the opposition penalty area so on balance they will get more penalties. Diving isn't confined to the better teams either. If you ever watch the EFL show on Quest, there's some well dodgy diving goes on in the lower leagues. And the refs are equally as clueless there. |
Some journalist did research on wrong decisions/biasness in football sending recently retired top level refs every game for a Premier League season and for them to look at every goal scored and every goal disallowed, I didn't need no experts it was obvious that Liverpool and Man Utd etc would come out top for wrong decisions in their favour and the Swans would come bottom for having the most wrong decisions go against them.
Man Utd were wrongly 12pts better of over the course of the season compared to what they should have been.
Wrong decisions has nothing to do with being a good team, either a goal should or should not be allowed. | | | |
| VAR on 16:46 - Nov 5 with 1506 views | ploppy |
| VAR on 14:51 - Nov 5 by ladyjack |
Some journalist did research on wrong decisions/biasness in football sending recently retired top level refs every game for a Premier League season and for them to look at every goal scored and every goal disallowed, I didn't need no experts it was obvious that Liverpool and Man Utd etc would come out top for wrong decisions in their favour and the Swans would come bottom for having the most wrong decisions go against them.
Man Utd were wrongly 12pts better of over the course of the season compared to what they should have been.
Wrong decisions has nothing to do with being a good team, either a goal should or should not be allowed. |
Do you have a link? | | | |
| VAR on 17:00 - Nov 5 with 1498 views | ladyjack |
| VAR on 16:46 - Nov 5 by ploppy |
Do you have a link? |
It was a pre season interview on the radio a few years ago talking to the guy that had researched the previous season. | | | |
| VAR on 17:33 - Nov 5 with 1473 views | ladyjack |
Ive just seen it whilst looking for the Leicester winning season [I seen a 'real' table on the net at the time but cant find it now], Leicester had lost unluckily to Spurs after a replay at the end of January in the 3rd round of the cup, I remember not seeing the game but an interview with the Leicester manager and he took it on the chin, some times you get decisions, sometimes you don't blah, blah, blah - I was very impressed how he took it, a month later I seen a site on the net showing a league table of all the wrong decisions for and against, Man Utd and Liverpool were 1 and 2 for wrong decisions in their favour as I would expect [I cant remember which was 1 and which was 2 but that hardly matters to me], joint 2nd - yes you got it Leicester City now its the big teams get the majority of the wrong decisions in their favour and here we were in February and Leicester were in second place for wrong decisions in their favour, Leicester thoroughly deserved to win the league that year but they did surprisingly for a small club have a lot of decisions go their way, no wonder the Leicester manager accepted bad decisions knocking his team out of the cup, they had had virtually every decision go in their favour that season up to that point. Swansea City were bottom for having wrong decisions go against them.
I would have guested Man U and Liverpool being the top two for wrong decisions in their favour and I would have guested Swansea being bottom for having the most wrong decisions go against them but I would not have guessed that Leicester would have been joint second that season [and they went on to win the league]. [Post edited 5 Nov 2019 17:36]
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| VAR on 17:53 - Nov 5 with 1453 views | ladyjack |
Man U last won the Prem league in 2012/13 and it was in the pre season for 2013/14 I heard the radio interview about Man U being 12pts up on wrong decisions [and most of the big clubs getting most of the wrong decisions in their favour and the opposite for the little clubs blah blah] only for the researcher to be asked who he supported and he wouldn't say and then after been asked a few times he said Man U and added without being asked we would have won the league anyway, ive just looked and they won by 11pts so I assume second place were a few points up on wrong decisions but the thing is Man Utd were probably so far clear that the chasing pack probably gave up weeks if not a couple of months before the end of season [concentrated on cups, blooded youngsters, tried out new formations etc]. | | | |
| VAR on 18:02 - Nov 5 with 1447 views | ploppy |
| VAR on 17:33 - Nov 5 by ladyjack |
Ive just seen it whilst looking for the Leicester winning season [I seen a 'real' table on the net at the time but cant find it now], Leicester had lost unluckily to Spurs after a replay at the end of January in the 3rd round of the cup, I remember not seeing the game but an interview with the Leicester manager and he took it on the chin, some times you get decisions, sometimes you don't blah, blah, blah - I was very impressed how he took it, a month later I seen a site on the net showing a league table of all the wrong decisions for and against, Man Utd and Liverpool were 1 and 2 for wrong decisions in their favour as I would expect [I cant remember which was 1 and which was 2 but that hardly matters to me], joint 2nd - yes you got it Leicester City now its the big teams get the majority of the wrong decisions in their favour and here we were in February and Leicester were in second place for wrong decisions in their favour, Leicester thoroughly deserved to win the league that year but they did surprisingly for a small club have a lot of decisions go their way, no wonder the Leicester manager accepted bad decisions knocking his team out of the cup, they had had virtually every decision go in their favour that season up to that point. Swansea City were bottom for having wrong decisions go against them.
I would have guested Man U and Liverpool being the top two for wrong decisions in their favour and I would have guested Swansea being bottom for having the most wrong decisions go against them but I would not have guessed that Leicester would have been joint second that season [and they went on to win the league]. [Post edited 5 Nov 2019 17:36]
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Not sure whether you're disagreeing with that BBC article or not, but to me the analysis shows that the "luck" doesn't go exclusively to the top teams.
Regarding Leicester City - one of the major factors in them winning the league that year was that Vardy, Okazaki and Marhez were diving all over the place and winning penalties and free kicks. Vardy especially was a master at initiating contact with defenders. So my analysis is that the teams with the most convincing divers get decisions in their favour. It still happens - see Mane's dive against Spurs, which effectively won Liverpool the match. Didn't work against Villa - he was booked - but he'll continue. Klopp doesn't agree, obviously. It's not because Liverpool are a top team though, it's because Mane's good at diving - he was good at it at Southampton, and they weren't a top team. Zaha's another example - they get plenty of penalties because Zaha's good at it, not because Palace are a top team. | | | |
| VAR on 18:02 - Nov 5 with 1446 views | ladyjack |
Certain things are obvious, it was always obvious to me that the big clubs get the bulk of the wrong decisions in their favour during my whole time of watching footie, that the bbc was right wing and that Wales would have voted remain if it wasn't for English immigrants now all those things have been backed to a greater or lesser extent by research.
I do think people have to be scrupulously fair to themselves mind to come up with unbiased opinions on what they see, if anybody speculates on the outcome of events then there is no room for sentiment in investing. | | | |
| VAR on 18:15 - Nov 5 with 1428 views | ladyjack |
| VAR on 18:02 - Nov 5 by ploppy |
Not sure whether you're disagreeing with that BBC article or not, but to me the analysis shows that the "luck" doesn't go exclusively to the top teams.
Regarding Leicester City - one of the major factors in them winning the league that year was that Vardy, Okazaki and Marhez were diving all over the place and winning penalties and free kicks. Vardy especially was a master at initiating contact with defenders. So my analysis is that the teams with the most convincing divers get decisions in their favour. It still happens - see Mane's dive against Spurs, which effectively won Liverpool the match. Didn't work against Villa - he was booked - but he'll continue. Klopp doesn't agree, obviously. It's not because Liverpool are a top team though, it's because Mane's good at diving - he was good at it at Southampton, and they weren't a top team. Zaha's another example - they get plenty of penalties because Zaha's good at it, not because Palace are a top team. |
I remember enjoying seeing Liverpool that season in the league not getting the decisions [for once].
When you have seen lots of football over the decades when the likes of Liverpool and Man U don't get a decision its a joy as they nearly always do, something else the more important the game the more likely imo that the big teams are to get a decision in their favour. | | | |
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