| The proposed loan of Fede 19:49 - Jul 23 with 19312 views | oldcob |
to Newcastle. Am I the only one who sees no sense in this? Newcastle gain, they get an experienced Premiership International centre back. Fede gains he's playing the standard of football he wishes. Apart from saving Fede's wages, what are Swansea City getting out of this? I can't see anything. Why would we agree to this?
[Post edited 23 Jul 2018 20:01]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:24 - Jul 25 with 1556 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:17 - Jul 25 by londonlisa2001 |
Bony left well after Tutumlu had gone.
Yes it was due to their ability to source players for the club that we couldn’t have brought in otherwise thus increasing our profits.
I didn’t agree with it, however.
I had no problems when Tutu was told to sling his hook, and I agreed with the sacking of Laudrup at the time he was sacked. He seemed to lose interest once Tutu went in my opinion. But that’s very different to the question posed. |
Either way, if not Bony then others - are you saying players agents had to forgo their payments as Tutumlu took them instead?
That sounds highly unlikely. He was not these players agents. |  |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:26 - Jul 25 with 1549 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 15:12 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
I remember AN example of short termism yes. Not SUCH an example of short termism no. They aren’t comparable.
With Fernándes’ money they could continue to purchase high earning experienced pros. We couldn’t continue reducing our pot. That’s the difference.
One was set up as a cyclical short term plan (old player comes in, then replaced with another so on and so forth) so it was short termism from Ferdinand’s point of view, not QPR’s - he would just be replaced with the next one, they had the means to do it.
We did not have the means to keep reducing our pot by the managers agent creaming millions off our incomes and outgoings. Not financially viable.
I didn’t want Laudrup to do anything. The era turned out to be excellent for the fan if viewed through a keyhole, and I selfishly wouldn’t change it. But I would be doing my own intelligence a disservice by not noting the absolute intentional lack of foresight that brought it about and the knock on affect that had.
Our ethos was always to buy, develop, sell, regenerate. That is the only way a club like us can survive. After we succumbed to the greed of the Laudrup era, the stench and temptation never really left no matter how hard we tried. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 15:15]
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So how much money did Laudrup waste on short term signings then? |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:29 - Jul 25 with 1530 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:26 - Jul 25 by Brynmill_Jack |
So how much money did Laudrup waste on short term signings then? |
Oh God, please read the thread
Or at least make sure you are in the same classroom as Shakey hand. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:29 - Jul 25 with 1536 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:24 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Either way, if not Bony then others - are you saying players agents had to forgo their payments as Tutumlu took them instead?
That sounds highly unlikely. He was not these players agents. |
Unfortunately there are a number of ‘intermediaries’ who operate on each sale and purchase.
As I said, it’s ridiculous. In that Bony case there were quite a few involved if you recall, not just his agent.
The price paid gets adjusted to take these things into account. It’s why the headline price and the money received are so far apart and why some agents are multi, multi millionaires.
The whole system needs to be cleaned up in my opinion. | | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:32 - Jul 25 with 1501 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:29 - Jul 25 by londonlisa2001 |
Unfortunately there are a number of ‘intermediaries’ who operate on each sale and purchase.
As I said, it’s ridiculous. In that Bony case there were quite a few involved if you recall, not just his agent.
The price paid gets adjusted to take these things into account. It’s why the headline price and the money received are so far apart and why some agents are multi, multi millionaires.
The whole system needs to be cleaned up in my opinion. |
So do you believe there was no difference in motives or amounts paid to agents per signing/sale between the Laudrup era and the Monk or Rodgers era for example. It was all for the long term benefit of the club? Remember this is approach not result. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:41 - Jul 25 with 1472 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:32 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
So do you believe there was no difference in motives or amounts paid to agents per signing/sale between the Laudrup era and the Monk or Rodgers era for example. It was all for the long term benefit of the club? Remember this is approach not result. |
If you stop and think about it, a deal whereby an agent or management team is rewarded on players in and players out overall is actually more closely aligned with the club’s long term objectives than a system where an agent and player are divorced from the overall position.
As an example, Ayew’s agent doesn’t much care what happens to the values of other team players that he doesn’t act for if Ayew leaves the club. It doesn’t affect him in any way. But an agent that is effectively the agent for the club as a whole, has a very real interest in how an individual sale or loan may affect the team as a whole, as he’s taking an overall view on the total value of the squad.
I think it changes actions, but as I said, I don’t see it as a short term vs long term approach. If anything, long term improvements in the club (and, as a result, the values of every player, rather than an individual player, and also the ability to attract better players) plays into the hands of someone with an overall deal rather than one tied to just one or two players.
Doesn’t make it right. That wasn’t my point. | | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:45 - Jul 25 with 1456 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:29 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Oh God, please read the thread
Or at least make sure you are in the same classroom as Shakey hand. |
I'm really sorry, I've been rushed off my feet today. Could you indulge me? | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:48 - Jul 25 with 1441 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:41 - Jul 25 by londonlisa2001 |
If you stop and think about it, a deal whereby an agent or management team is rewarded on players in and players out overall is actually more closely aligned with the club’s long term objectives than a system where an agent and player are divorced from the overall position.
As an example, Ayew’s agent doesn’t much care what happens to the values of other team players that he doesn’t act for if Ayew leaves the club. It doesn’t affect him in any way. But an agent that is effectively the agent for the club as a whole, has a very real interest in how an individual sale or loan may affect the team as a whole, as he’s taking an overall view on the total value of the squad.
I think it changes actions, but as I said, I don’t see it as a short term vs long term approach. If anything, long term improvements in the club (and, as a result, the values of every player, rather than an individual player, and also the ability to attract better players) plays into the hands of someone with an overall deal rather than one tied to just one or two players.
Doesn’t make it right. That wasn’t my point. |
Of course it changes actions, not necessarily for the better. It can be spun any way, but a managers agent getting a cut of any sales and any purchases is never realistically going to be a good thing. In a letter sent to the FA, Swansea directors complained that unless a player was attached to Tutumlu then Laudrup would reject the transfer.
If it was such a healthy thing then why was Tutumlu banned from the club? He is a parasite feeding off the football club. They were in it for the cash, not to further the club. When things went bad as short termism tends to - he looked completely and utterly disinterested as nearly all have commented on. The club and its long term future was never a viable train of thought, that much is obvious certainly to no great lengths anyway.
Why don’t we agree with it? Why would we not advocate this as a business model? Because it is not a viable long term strategy. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 21:50]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:51 - Jul 25 with 1435 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:45 - Jul 25 by Brynmill_Jack |
I'm really sorry, I've been rushed off my feet today. Could you indulge me? |
Im not reciting the thread to you no. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:54 - Jul 25 with 1426 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:48 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Of course it changes actions, not necessarily for the better. It can be spun any way, but a managers agent getting a cut of any sales and any purchases is never realistically going to be a good thing. In a letter sent to the FA, Swansea directors complained that unless a player was attached to Tutumlu then Laudrup would reject the transfer.
If it was such a healthy thing then why was Tutumlu banned from the club? He is a parasite feeding off the football club. They were in it for the cash, not to further the club. When things went bad as short termism tends to - he looked completely and utterly disinterested as nearly all have commented on. The club and its long term future was never a viable train of thought, that much is obvious certainly to no great lengths anyway.
Why don’t we agree with it? Why would we not advocate this as a business model? Because it is not a viable long term strategy. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 21:50]
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I didn’t say it was healthy. In fact I said specifically I disagreed with it.
I just said it wasn’t necessarily short termist. For reasons I have explained.
It’s pointless going round in circles.
Let’s instead concentrate on us making a club record signing in January and loaning him out in the summer as his value is so shot and his contract is so onerous. | | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:59 - Jul 25 with 1403 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:54 - Jul 25 by londonlisa2001 |
I didn’t say it was healthy. In fact I said specifically I disagreed with it.
I just said it wasn’t necessarily short termist. For reasons I have explained.
It’s pointless going round in circles.
Let’s instead concentrate on us making a club record signing in January and loaning him out in the summer as his value is so shot and his contract is so onerous. |
<< Let’s instead concentrate on us making a club record signing in January and loaning him out in the summer as his value is so shot and his contract is so onerous >>
The risks worth taking for a sound financial future. Said no one ever.
Oh.... apart from E20 |  | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:59 - Jul 25 with 1396 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:54 - Jul 25 by londonlisa2001 |
I didn’t say it was healthy. In fact I said specifically I disagreed with it.
I just said it wasn’t necessarily short termist. For reasons I have explained.
It’s pointless going round in circles.
Let’s instead concentrate on us making a club record signing in January and loaning him out in the summer as his value is so shot and his contract is so onerous. |
An eggshell isn’t necessarily hard either, but we are talking about a specific hard shelled egg and we are talking about a specific era in our history with a particularly short termed approach where personal wealth from the management team (as he essentially was) was put agreed of the well-being if the club.
The January thing may well go tits up, but as I said result does not determine approach. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 22:00 - Jul 25 with 1398 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:59 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
An eggshell isn’t necessarily hard either, but we are talking about a specific hard shelled egg and we are talking about a specific era in our history with a particularly short termed approach where personal wealth from the management team (as he essentially was) was put agreed of the well-being if the club.
The January thing may well go tits up, but as I said result does not determine approach. |
May well go tits up? Where’ve you been? | | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 22:02 - Jul 25 with 1381 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 22:00 - Jul 25 by 34dfgdf54 |
May well go tits up? Where’ve you been? |
In the present, what year are you from then? | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 22:06 - Jul 25 with 1371 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:48 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Of course it changes actions, not necessarily for the better. It can be spun any way, but a managers agent getting a cut of any sales and any purchases is never realistically going to be a good thing. In a letter sent to the FA, Swansea directors complained that unless a player was attached to Tutumlu then Laudrup would reject the transfer.
If it was such a healthy thing then why was Tutumlu banned from the club? He is a parasite feeding off the football club. They were in it for the cash, not to further the club. When things went bad as short termism tends to - he looked completely and utterly disinterested as nearly all have commented on. The club and its long term future was never a viable train of thought, that much is obvious certainly to no great lengths anyway.
Why don’t we agree with it? Why would we not advocate this as a business model? Because it is not a viable long term strategy. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 21:50]
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The Elephant in your room are the parasites that sold the club to mercenaries are still leaching off it as it slowly decomposes. Nice try but I'm afraid your logic is fatally flawed.
Those are the people I feel anger towards, the people who destroyed the buy cheap and get resale profit by buying high and in Ayews case not even getting a sale. 20 million pounds down the toilet. No goals return.
And can you solemnly guarantee that Jenkins didn't profit from Andre Ayew's transfer from West Ham?
Tutumulu may well have taken cuts in transfers but he was an agent. And as far as I'm concerned (and every other SCFC fan I've ever engaged on the subject has agreed) it didn't matter a jot. Not one damn. We will never know if Laudrup's model was sustainable or not because he never got the chance to carry it through because one of the above parasites was undermining him with a group of treacherous players. He kept us in the PL and won a major trophy. All we've had since is wasted transfer money, players that don't fit and have no resale profit (Jenkins method was buy and loan them to other sides) and a relegation.
The model now is most definitely unsustainable. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 22:10 - Jul 25 with 1349 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 22:06 - Jul 25 by Brynmill_Jack |
The Elephant in your room are the parasites that sold the club to mercenaries are still leaching off it as it slowly decomposes. Nice try but I'm afraid your logic is fatally flawed.
Those are the people I feel anger towards, the people who destroyed the buy cheap and get resale profit by buying high and in Ayews case not even getting a sale. 20 million pounds down the toilet. No goals return.
And can you solemnly guarantee that Jenkins didn't profit from Andre Ayew's transfer from West Ham?
Tutumulu may well have taken cuts in transfers but he was an agent. And as far as I'm concerned (and every other SCFC fan I've ever engaged on the subject has agreed) it didn't matter a jot. Not one damn. We will never know if Laudrup's model was sustainable or not because he never got the chance to carry it through because one of the above parasites was undermining him with a group of treacherous players. He kept us in the PL and won a major trophy. All we've had since is wasted transfer money, players that don't fit and have no resale profit (Jenkins method was buy and loan them to other sides) and a relegation.
The model now is most definitely unsustainable. |
Why is that the elephant in my room or a flaw with my point, neither of which are even relevant to the point I have made.
Rant as much as you like if you need to get stuff off your chest. But it has nothing to do with me or my common sense and factual points.
Sorry to break that to you. We already have had one strawman king, you aren’t related are you? | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 07:41 - Jul 26 with 1286 views | swan65split |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 11:19 - Jul 26 with 1227 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 07:41 - Jul 26 by swan65split |
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Ah the smiley post.  | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 12:34 - Jul 26 with 1202 views | jasper_T |
Fabian Schar is at Newcastle's training ground after completing his medical. Should end their interest in Fede. | | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 12:38 - Jul 26 with 1183 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 12:34 - Jul 26 by jasper_T |
Fabian Schar is at Newcastle's training ground after completing his medical. Should end their interest in Fede. |
Happy with this providing we can shift the two Ayew's and Mawson with enough time spare to strenghthen what is a very weak looking midfield and another left back if Jordi isn't fancied at all. | | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 12:43 - Jul 26 with 1167 views | Swanjaxs |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 12:38 - Jul 26 by 34dfgdf54 |
Happy with this providing we can shift the two Ayew's and Mawson with enough time spare to strenghthen what is a very weak looking midfield and another left back if Jordi isn't fancied at all. |
Even if we can offload the other Ayew and Mawson i cant see any significant funds being freed up to be honest, it's all about how much money the Americans can screw outa the club before disappearing into the sunset 👋👋 |  |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 12:55 - Jul 26 with 1150 views | Shaky |
There is still more than a month left of the wider FIFA transfer window which closes 31st august outside the UK.
This gives significantly greater breathing space as that is the likely destination for any deal to offload Bony and Andre Ayew.
Remember, if Bony's reported wages of £120k per week are right and not subject to a relegation clause, he would cost the club a cool £7million in the next financial year, including national insurance. (£5million at a 30% relegation haircut). |  |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 13:01 - Jul 26 with 1112 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 12:55 - Jul 26 by Shaky |
There is still more than a month left of the wider FIFA transfer window which closes 31st august outside the UK.
This gives significantly greater breathing space as that is the likely destination for any deal to offload Bony and Andre Ayew.
Remember, if Bony's reported wages of £120k per week are right and not subject to a relegation clause, he would cost the club a cool £7million in the next financial year, including national insurance. (£5million at a 30% relegation haircut). |
You think we are paying Bony more than the 100k base payment he was on at Man City?
Do you have any grasp on what on earth goes on at my football club?... or any football club? [Post edited 26 Jul 2018 13:23]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 13:11 - Jul 26 with 1080 views | Jango |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 13:01 - Jul 26 by E20Jack |
You think we are paying Bony more than the 100k base payment he was on at Man City?
Do you have any grasp on what on earth goes on at my football club?... or any football club? [Post edited 26 Jul 2018 13:23]
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Shaky could run the swans at champions league level, negotiate the best possible deal for brexit, see over NASA’s next man on the moon mission and still be home to cook his misses tea. | | | |
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