| Clydach murders on 09:52 - Oct 22 with 2777 views | onehunglow |
and of course the term "reasonable doubt" begs the question as to what is reasonable.Classic case of that of force. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 09:53 - Oct 22 with 2770 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 09:48 - Oct 22 by exhmrc1 |
The BBC and yourself continue to ignore that the juries saw the evidence, they saw Morris behaviour, they saw other witnesses behaviour, they saw the murder scene and how it was connected to the pub, the distance from the pub to Llangyfelach. They heard all the evidence. I didnt, you didnt and neither did the BBC. It might make good TV or books but the fact is that those present including BBC employees believed he is guilty. You earlier stated that you believe in the jury system. Now it seems you want to replace it with trial by TV.
All this so called evidence has already been considered by the courts. The only thing that hasnt is some bloke coming forward 21 years later and has suddenly remembered he saw someone leaving that night in a bomber jacket. Can you remember what you saw 21 years ago. i certainly cant. Who is suddenly going to believe someone who comes forward 21 years later. |
They heard the evidence presented to them, they could only make a judgement on what was presented to them. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 10:23 - Oct 22 with 2753 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 09:53 - Oct 22 by trampie |
They heard the evidence presented to them, they could only make a judgement on what was presented to them. |
And there is very little new evidence to be presented. One person claiming to see someone in a bomber jacket and a couple of professors casting doubt. The courts have heard all this and rejected it. A few years ago there was an appeal rejected on so called new evidence. Funny how this new evidence keeps coming up but is rejected. The evidence that largely led to Morris being connected was his chain being found there. The chain he continually denied was his but eventually admitted after someone admitted buying one for him. If it was left the night before why didnt he go to collect. Why werent there people in the pub not noticing he didnt have it on. Where were the people seeing him walking to Llangyfelach and back. Why did his girflriend say he was home around 11.30 when according to him he didn't get home until 3.30. I have stayed many times in my sisters house on Rhyddwen Road and there is a surprising amount o traffic there. The juries heard his case and rejected his version. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 10:23 - Oct 22 with 2753 views | trefelinjack |
| Clydach murders on 09:48 - Oct 22 by exhmrc1 |
The BBC and yourself continue to ignore that the juries saw the evidence, they saw Morris behaviour, they saw other witnesses behaviour, they saw the murder scene and how it was connected to the pub, the distance from the pub to Llangyfelach. They heard all the evidence. I didnt, you didnt and neither did the BBC. It might make good TV or books but the fact is that those present including BBC employees believed he is guilty. You earlier stated that you believe in the jury system. Now it seems you want to replace it with trial by TV.
All this so called evidence has already been considered by the courts. The only thing that hasnt is some bloke coming forward 21 years later and has suddenly remembered he saw someone leaving that night in a bomber jacket. Can you remember what you saw 21 years ago. i certainly cant. Who is suddenly going to believe someone who comes forward 21 years later. |
Are you referring to a woman who drove down kelvin Road at a similair time to when the murders occurred? She seen a man in a jacket usually worn by the police and an edit was drawn which looked similar to other suspects. This evidence and efit was not used in both trials! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 10:28 - Oct 22 with 2749 views | onehunglow |
Who drove down what would be questioned by learned counsel | |
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| Clydach murders on 12:44 - Oct 22 with 2714 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 10:23 - Oct 22 by trefelinjack |
Are you referring to a woman who drove down kelvin Road at a similair time to when the murders occurred? She seen a man in a jacket usually worn by the police and an edit was drawn which looked similar to other suspects. This evidence and efit was not used in both trials! |
No I am referring to bloke called John Allan who is now being reported in the BBC programme to be broadcast tonight. It is on the BBC website. He is now coming forward 21 years later and remembers seeing a guy in a bomber jacket on that night 21 years ago. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 13:23 - Oct 22 with 2685 views | trampie |
I think a juror should be at least 83.33% certain of guilt in their own mind to convict in these types of cases. [Post edited 22 Oct 2020 13:26]
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| Clydach murders on 13:30 - Oct 22 with 2684 views | onehunglow |
Nope ,ha to be 100% as ,if not,its doubt and therefore,it's an acquittal.
All a defence barrister has to do is sow seeds of doubt,and this will be reinforced by a Judge who ,to many jurors,looks an impressive ,substantive ,almost intimidating man/woman. | |
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| Clydach murders on 13:36 - Oct 22 with 2680 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 13:23 - Oct 22 by trampie |
I think a juror should be at least 83.33% certain of guilt in their own mind to convict in these types of cases. [Post edited 22 Oct 2020 13:26]
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Not it has to be 100%. That is why many cases fail. 83.3% means there is reasonable doubt so you acquit. The judges would have made that clear to the jury. If there is reasonable doubt you acquit but despite that 2 juries unanimously found him guilty. When you are talking murder cases you have to be sure. It says it all. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 13:36 - Oct 22 with 2674 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 13:30 - Oct 22 by onehunglow |
Nope ,ha to be 100% as ,if not,its doubt and therefore,it's an acquittal.
All a defence barrister has to do is sow seeds of doubt,and this will be reinforced by a Judge who ,to many jurors,looks an impressive ,substantive ,almost intimidating man/woman. |
100% is certain, not beyond reasonable doubt. | |
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| Clydach murders on 13:40 - Oct 22 with 2678 views | onehunglow |
Doubt is just that.
Reasonable is a subjective word .
What constitutes what is reasonable/ This ha been debated in Courts for many years.
The word itself is open to interpretation.
By the way, I do not have any feelings as regards this case one way or another | |
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| Clydach murders on 18:16 - Oct 22 with 2632 views | Highjack |
Another thing that always jumps out for me is that out of everybody who knew Morris, none ever seem to have a single good thing to say about him. You always hear people say he was a horrible man and had hardly any redeeming features but yet they still remain convinced he was innocent. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 18:28 - Oct 22 with 2606 views | Flashberryjack |
| Clydach murders on 18:16 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
Another thing that always jumps out for me is that out of everybody who knew Morris, none ever seem to have a single good thing to say about him. You always hear people say he was a horrible man and had hardly any redeeming features but yet they still remain convinced he was innocent. |
A guy I knew told me his daughter used to be going out with Morris for a good while, he used to beat ten colours of shyte out of her on a regular basis.
People love a good conspiracy, no doubt tonight's programme will be like manna from heaven to them. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 19:53 - Oct 22 with 2551 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 18:28 - Oct 22 by Flashberryjack |
A guy I knew told me his daughter used to be going out with Morris for a good while, he used to beat ten colours of shyte out of her on a regular basis.
People love a good conspiracy, no doubt tonight's programme will be like manna from heaven to them. |
Yeah that’s the weird thing. You’ve got a guy that everybody knows is a wrong un with a violent past and a nasty temper but they still don’t think he did this and are willing to campaign to free him. It’s bizarre. | |
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| Clydach murders on 20:43 - Oct 22 with 2520 views | pikeypaul |
Should be interesting,but I doubt if it will change anyone's opinion. The Morris is guilty brigade would not
change there minds if a video of another suspect turned up of them walking out of the house minutes after the horrific murders took place. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 21:04 - Oct 22 with 2507 views | Swanjaxs |
| Clydach murders on 20:43 - Oct 22 by pikeypaul |
Should be interesting,but I doubt if it will change anyone's opinion. The Morris is guilty brigade would not
change there minds if a video of another suspect turned up of them walking out of the house minutes after the horrific murders took place. |
For once, we agree on something |  |
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| Clydach murders on 22:14 - Oct 22 with 2435 views | Andy1300 |
And we all know what reputation SWP had at that time, probabl6 the most corrupt force in the U.K. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 22:15 - Oct 22 with 2434 views | ItchySphincter |
| Clydach murders on 18:16 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
Another thing that always jumps out for me is that out of everybody who knew Morris, none ever seem to have a single good thing to say about him. You always hear people say he was a horrible man and had hardly any redeeming features but yet they still remain convinced he was innocent. |
Being horrible doesn’t make him guilty though? I’m not saying he’s not by the way, just taking up you point as it comes across that you think it does. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 22:17 - Oct 22 with 2429 views | trefelinjack |
Having just watched the documentary I am astounded that the prosecution withheld vital information from the defence as to not undermine their case. For me the TV programme casts even greater doubt on exhmrc1 flimsy arguments about the chain and the bloody 2 jury theory. In fact if I read anything from him/her that remotely mentions the chain or 2 trials. I am deleting this account and buying a Cardiff season ticket next year. Goodnight and justice for dai | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:20 - Oct 22 with 2420 views | controversial_jack |
| Clydach murders on 22:17 - Oct 22 by trefelinjack |
Having just watched the documentary I am astounded that the prosecution withheld vital information from the defence as to not undermine their case. For me the TV programme casts even greater doubt on exhmrc1 flimsy arguments about the chain and the bloody 2 jury theory. In fact if I read anything from him/her that remotely mentions the chain or 2 trials. I am deleting this account and buying a Cardiff season ticket next year. Goodnight and justice for dai |
It's not the job of the police to prove innocence | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:33 - Oct 22 with 2396 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 22:17 - Oct 22 by trefelinjack |
Having just watched the documentary I am astounded that the prosecution withheld vital information from the defence as to not undermine their case. For me the TV programme casts even greater doubt on exhmrc1 flimsy arguments about the chain and the bloody 2 jury theory. In fact if I read anything from him/her that remotely mentions the chain or 2 trials. I am deleting this account and buying a Cardiff season ticket next year. Goodnight and justice for dai |
Shame you dont want justice for the family killed. The programme showed his repeated lies and efforts at a cover up. Constantly making false statements about his chain, where in the house he had been, and the time he got home. The juries heard this and came to their decision. The jury saw all his failures and didnt accept his story. The so called new witness even admitted to being in trouble with the law and probably has an axe to grind. Coming down from Gellionnen mountain at 4am in the morning. Why would anyone be up there. The only thing there is a couple of farms and a chapel. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:39 - Oct 22 with 2384 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 22:15 - Oct 22 by ItchySphincter |
Being horrible doesn’t make him guilty though? I’m not saying he’s not by the way, just taking up you point as it comes across that you think it does. |
You misunderstand. The fact that so many people seem to be sticking by him and think he’s innocent despite knowing he’s a right horrible bastard suggests that there’s more to this than meets the eye. The normal reaction would be let him rot. | |
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| Clydach murders on 22:53 - Oct 22 with 2349 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 22:39 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
You misunderstand. The fact that so many people seem to be sticking by him and think he’s innocent despite knowing he’s a right horrible bastard suggests that there’s more to this than meets the eye. The normal reaction would be let him rot. |
The real problem is many are anti police and therefore want the police to be charged. Had the police never been arrested there wouldn't be the same support. Having said that it is one hell of a walk even when sober from the New Inn past the Masons and the edge of Morriston Hospital to Llangyfelach and there are no pavements so you walk on the road. In a drunken state it would be even further and yet there wasn't a witness who recalls someone walking there. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 22:56 - Oct 22 with 2342 views | Gowerjack |
| Clydach murders on 00:11 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
I don’t know an awful lot about this case but from what I’ve heard the argument seems to be that the evidence put to the court twice was somehow fabricated or altered by corrupt police officers protecting their own. We know this corruption happens, from Hillsborough to Stephen Lawrence and many others. I’m not necessarily suggesting it happened here but that seems to be the feeling amongst many and if it is the case that fabricated evidence was put to the court then of course the jury would convict twice. |
Yep
You're right
You don't know an awful lot about this case.. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 23:06 - Oct 22 with 2326 views | britferry |
Why would a witness sit on evidence for 20 odd years?
I thought the first 2 witnesses were credible, the 3rd, was a joke and let the program down.
Would be interesting to see if that sock gets re-tested, seems a crucial piece of evidence. | |
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