| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 19:15 - Dec 13 with 3391 views | electricblue |
Bolton...
They are as skint as bury...... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 20:38 - Dec 13 with 3261 views | 49thseason |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 13:56 - Dec 13 by deeplishblue |
If his contract is up in June then:
50k go away
100k no
125k maybe
150k yes |
£150k ?? - we would earn half of that by beating Barrow. We should do what Peterborough seem to do - start at £1m+ and then negotiate down to about £750k. Clubs who want our players need to understand that we are no longer the club struggling to pay the taxman or desperate for a quick £100k. |  | | |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 20:47 - Dec 13 with 3224 views | dingdangblue |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 20:38 - Dec 13 by 49thseason |
£150k ?? - we would earn half of that by beating Barrow. We should do what Peterborough seem to do - start at £1m+ and then negotiate down to about £750k. Clubs who want our players need to understand that we are no longer the club struggling to pay the taxman or desperate for a quick £100k. |
The problem is Peterborough dont sell players with 6 months left on their contract - they are on 3-4 year deals which we dont do. I cant even see him going in Jan because him and his agent can get a big payday if he's out of contract. |  |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 23:58 - Dec 13 with 3027 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 13:58 - Dec 13 by judd |
Can we not just tell 'em it's NML but send 'em RNL instead? |
Exactly what I thought Judster.........joking apart,was there not a story a few years ago that Dale signed a player from "darn sarf" that turned out to be the wrong guy we had been scouting? |  | | |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 08:13 - Dec 14 with 2885 views | con_dale |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 12:23 - Dec 13 by oddjob007 |
Interesting... Have we seen the best of him ? Probably not. Is he pivotal to our success? No. Is he first on the team sheet? No.
Depends on the offer - but I'd be tempted to cash in. |
Q1 possibly not but the potential is there
Q2 yes he has scored goals and set up others
Q3 no but when I see his name on the bench I know we have a game changer to come on.
We need to keep this squad of young talent together and see where it takes us!
There has been many injuries this season and the young players coming in have taken there chances, there is a hunger in our squad and that's just to play and be in the team and that hunger is showing in our performances. |  | | |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 09:40 - Dec 14 with 2777 views | AtThePeake |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 15:49 - Dec 13 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Dale (Mr Hill I mean) have restored NML's stuttering career and put him right back in the shop window.....he's a very good asset here,long may it remain.
Touch of loyalty? |
It's worth noting that NML was seen by a bit of a coup by many when he first joined the club.
There's a good chance he signed for us under the promise that he could leave if and when a better offer came in. |  |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 09:55 - Dec 14 with 2756 views | fitzochris |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 09:40 - Dec 14 by AtThePeake |
It's worth noting that NML was seen by a bit of a coup by many when he first joined the club.
There's a good chance he signed for us under the promise that he could leave if and when a better offer came in. |
That would not surprise me at all. |  |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 10:40 - Dec 14 with 2689 views | aleanddale |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 09:55 - Dec 14 by fitzochris |
That would not surprise me at all. |
For the right price!!
Somebody mentioned Posh.. Don't get their pants pulled down let's get tough when negotiating with the bigger boys!!
Show us your money!! | | | |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 10:46 - Dec 14 with 2677 views | Swissdale |
As impressed as I've been with the form of Joe Thompson, I would still rather have Mendez in the starting 11. I've actually been disappointed to see him benched for the last few games. Mendez is an exciting player, and one of the only players that can create something from nothing.
However, we are still a selling club, and if we get an offer that helps us stay solvent for another year, we have to accept it.
Having said that, I think we have a fairly high chance of a windfall from any Hogan sale in January, so I would hold off until the end of January before accepting anything but silly offers. If (and it's a big if) we get a huge chunk of money from Brentford, then we put ourselves in a Peterborough-type situation where our demands can increase. |  | | |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 10:56 - Dec 14 with 2650 views | dingdangblue |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 10:46 - Dec 14 by Swissdale |
As impressed as I've been with the form of Joe Thompson, I would still rather have Mendez in the starting 11. I've actually been disappointed to see him benched for the last few games. Mendez is an exciting player, and one of the only players that can create something from nothing.
However, we are still a selling club, and if we get an offer that helps us stay solvent for another year, we have to accept it.
Having said that, I think we have a fairly high chance of a windfall from any Hogan sale in January, so I would hold off until the end of January before accepting anything but silly offers. If (and it's a big if) we get a huge chunk of money from Brentford, then we put ourselves in a Peterborough-type situation where our demands can increase. |
We cant make any demands with players out of contract. | |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 11:23 - Dec 14 with 2611 views | 100notout |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 10:56 - Dec 14 by dingdangblue |
We cant make any demands with players out of contract. |
Hes not out of contract yet so its simply a case of do we sell or let his contract run down - if we are happy to run the risk of the latter we can "demand" whatever we want | |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 11:34 - Dec 14 with 2576 views | rochdaleriddler |
I think that we should only consider selling our assets if silly money is offered, and by that for him I suggest would be 250k. For our star players I would suggest 1 million for the likes of camps, Allen, cannon et al. Otherwise we will never shake off the little Dale tag. |  |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 11:43 - Dec 14 with 2568 views | fitzochris |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 10:40 - Dec 14 by aleanddale |
For the right price!!
Somebody mentioned Posh.. Don't get their pants pulled down let's get tough when negotiating with the bigger boys!!
Show us your money!! |
He might have a minimum-fee release clause in his contract for all we know.
One thing is for certain, NML will have earned more money at other clubs than he is doing at Rochdale. He was left with no offers (as far as I know) before we came along. I would not be surprised if the reason he has accepted a contract with us - one that we can afford - is on the promise that we will let him move on should a more lucrative offer come along. | |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 12:25 - Dec 14 with 2518 views | rkershaw |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 11:43 - Dec 14 by fitzochris |
He might have a minimum-fee release clause in his contract for all we know.
One thing is for certain, NML will have earned more money at other clubs than he is doing at Rochdale. He was left with no offers (as far as I know) before we came along. I would not be surprised if the reason he has accepted a contract with us - one that we can afford - is on the promise that we will let him move on should a more lucrative offer come along. |
Make that 4 clubs as Bolton, according to BBC football and their chairman, are losing £800K per month (GULP!!!) and will not be making any signings in the transfer window!! | | | |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 12:32 - Dec 14 with 2500 views | dingdangblue |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 11:23 - Dec 14 by 100notout |
Hes not out of contract yet so its simply a case of do we sell or let his contract run down - if we are happy to run the risk of the latter we can "demand" whatever we want |
I'm pretty sure his agent would advise him not to go anywhere in January knowing he is out of contract at the end of the season - the money any club would be willing to pay Dale in January would go to Mendez Laing/ his agent direct if he is out of contract. A bummer for Dale but it happened with Dagnall and Kennedy back in the promotion season. At the end of the day - at the moment Dale aren't in a position to offer 3-4 year deals so if anyone of any worth is on our books there is always a risk of them going for nowt after the 2nd season. | |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 13:20 - Dec 14 with 2335 views | fitzochris |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 12:32 - Dec 14 by dingdangblue |
I'm pretty sure his agent would advise him not to go anywhere in January knowing he is out of contract at the end of the season - the money any club would be willing to pay Dale in January would go to Mendez Laing/ his agent direct if he is out of contract. A bummer for Dale but it happened with Dagnall and Kennedy back in the promotion season. At the end of the day - at the moment Dale aren't in a position to offer 3-4 year deals so if anyone of any worth is on our books there is always a risk of them going for nowt after the 2nd season. |
His agent is clearly up to something or that story wouldn't have appeared on the HITC website.
It could even be an attempt to 'scare'us into offering him a better deal. | |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 13:31 - Dec 14 with 2303 views | Bendy |
I would say offer him a contract now for another season (perhaps with the potential for an option of a further year which would trigger a further pay rise). If he signs, then fine. If he doesn't then sell - not out of bitterness that he has refused to sign but to continue the conveyor.
The only way to make room for the next player that is "too good for us" is to sell on the current one, and use his freed up wages to pay the next rough diamond to come in on the same sort of terms, including that we will sell him on to a bigger club if they want to pay him substantially more.
Rochdale has two types of player who we predominantly have - the young potential-laden players (either from our academy or elsewhere who need a bit of developing and reworking) who our ultimate aim is to profit from financially to sustain the club. The other type are the older more experienced players who have rekindled their spark and love of the game whilst at Dale and so are willing to stay here for a few years at least on lesser wages than elsewhere because they feel that their happiness is worth more than some extra pounds in the bank and isn't worth gambling away (the likes of Hendo, Calvin, Vincenti etc fit into this and so would Keane if he signed). They don't NEED to move as they are being fulfilled and are valued and are able to be a part of the journey of the younger players. We only have a couple of what I would call "do a job" players - ones who are at their around their prime and around their natural upper playing level. This is Dale's key to continuing to do well as the do-a-jobs are ones who can be the most difficult to engage in the vision and are more concerned in having to protect and safeguard their own careers as they know they are likely to be fighting for contracts at the end of any given season at a club at a similar level or below.
Where does NML fit in this? I would say the first group with potential to move upwards, and so in this case he can be sold for the future benefit of the club. However - he has the option to choose to fall into the second catagory. He has had a somewhat nomadic past where he hasn't fitted in everywhere and has rekindled it and so would be happy to stay out self-happiness (rather than loyalty). It would be a risk by him to move - will he get much game time at any of these clubs mentioned? Will he be as happy? And how would this then affect his future career and future earning potential?
Look at the Dale squads of 15/10/5yrs ago. See how many of them are do-a-jobs compared to now. The more players Dale tick over and sell, the more, and better, rekindled experienced players we can tempt and the more, better rough diamonds we can get interested in coming to us. This slowly improves the club long term in a very sustainable way. And the bonus is it also decreases the quantity of do-a-jobs needed to make up the numbers, which leads to an even more opportunity for players to reach their potential both through playing time and squad harmony. [Post edited 14 Dec 2016 13:33]
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 13:43 - Dec 14 with 2268 views | Scunnydale |
I think players like NML also need to realise that Hilly is capable of getting the best out of them, whereas other managers may not be able to, or not have the overall incentive to.
We've seen past players move on to supposedly bigger and better things, and find themselves sitting on the bench before being sold back to a club at our level, or our own club.
I like NML a lot and (mostly) want former Dale players to succeed when they leave for a team higher up the pyramid (it reflects well on our club), but I'm not entirely sure he's ready to fly the nest and be a consistent success. This time next year, maybe.
However, as has been said, we're in a better position now not to be held to ransom by players' agents. We'll recover as we have every time a good player has left. Whether the departing player will recover is up to them - and dependent on whether they get good career advice from their agents (which seems to be very thin on the ground these days). |  | | |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 13:44 - Dec 14 with 2266 views | fitzochris |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 13:31 - Dec 14 by Bendy |
I would say offer him a contract now for another season (perhaps with the potential for an option of a further year which would trigger a further pay rise). If he signs, then fine. If he doesn't then sell - not out of bitterness that he has refused to sign but to continue the conveyor.
The only way to make room for the next player that is "too good for us" is to sell on the current one, and use his freed up wages to pay the next rough diamond to come in on the same sort of terms, including that we will sell him on to a bigger club if they want to pay him substantially more.
Rochdale has two types of player who we predominantly have - the young potential-laden players (either from our academy or elsewhere who need a bit of developing and reworking) who our ultimate aim is to profit from financially to sustain the club. The other type are the older more experienced players who have rekindled their spark and love of the game whilst at Dale and so are willing to stay here for a few years at least on lesser wages than elsewhere because they feel that their happiness is worth more than some extra pounds in the bank and isn't worth gambling away (the likes of Hendo, Calvin, Vincenti etc fit into this and so would Keane if he signed). They don't NEED to move as they are being fulfilled and are valued and are able to be a part of the journey of the younger players. We only have a couple of what I would call "do a job" players - ones who are at their around their prime and around their natural upper playing level. This is Dale's key to continuing to do well as the do-a-jobs are ones who can be the most difficult to engage in the vision and are more concerned in having to protect and safeguard their own careers as they know they are likely to be fighting for contracts at the end of any given season at a club at a similar level or below.
Where does NML fit in this? I would say the first group with potential to move upwards, and so in this case he can be sold for the future benefit of the club. However - he has the option to choose to fall into the second catagory. He has had a somewhat nomadic past where he hasn't fitted in everywhere and has rekindled it and so would be happy to stay out self-happiness (rather than loyalty). It would be a risk by him to move - will he get much game time at any of these clubs mentioned? Will he be as happy? And how would this then affect his future career and future earning potential?
Look at the Dale squads of 15/10/5yrs ago. See how many of them are do-a-jobs compared to now. The more players Dale tick over and sell, the more, and better, rekindled experienced players we can tempt and the more, better rough diamonds we can get interested in coming to us. This slowly improves the club long term in a very sustainable way. And the bonus is it also decreases the quantity of do-a-jobs needed to make up the numbers, which leads to an even more opportunity for players to reach their potential both through playing time and squad harmony. [Post edited 14 Dec 2016 13:33]
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Brilliant summary. | |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 14:01 - Dec 14 with 2212 views | JimmyRustler |
He's the only player of his kind that we have in the squad. It would be extremely disappointing to lose him. |  | | |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 14:12 - Dec 14 with 2170 views | dingdangblue |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 14:01 - Dec 14 by JimmyRustler |
He's the only player of his kind that we have in the squad. It would be extremely disappointing to lose him. |
On hearing the team last Saturday - my 1st thought was the lack of pace. Thompson,Camps,Lund,Rathbone,Henderson and Davies aren't particularly quick - but at one point we found ourselves 3-0 and still making chances. Should know by now not to doubt Hilly's plans. | |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 15:11 - Dec 14 with 2100 views | AtThePeake |
| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 13:44 - Dec 14 by fitzochris |
Brilliant summary. |
Seconded. One of the best posts I've seen on here for a while. | |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 17:21 - Dec 14 with 1925 views | D_Alien |
Great post Bendy
Just to add, the key to everything you've described is continuity in management. If players in the first two categories (young, up and coming / older, finding their home with Dale) were getting vibes that Hill wasn't settled, it'd be difficult for them to make the most of their respective opportunities. As an example, Hendo has stated that Dale is his last club. Assuming he wants to play on for as long as he's able to do so, he wouldn't be saying that if he thought Hill might jump ship, leaving him stranded with a manager who might not appreciate him. That's why I'm optimistic about Hill staying put for the long term. Nothing is certain in football, but the management vibes are becoming increasingly positive in that respect. |  |
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| 5 clubs chasing NML... on 19:20 - Dec 14 with 1790 views | 49thseason |
I think NML is suffering from Joe Bunny being the first choice Left-back, when Bunny goes forward, NML is less capable in defence than Joe Thompson so, to prevent the LB spot being wide open, JT drops back when JB attacks but I suspect NML isn't as good at it. | | | |
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