| A question for our American posters 15:45 - Dec 4 with 5211 views | Vetchfielder |
UK companies have to submit an Annual Return (recently re-named a Confirmation Statement) and in these documents we have been able to see who owns shares in Swansea City Football Club. We can see these documents on a public website run by a Government body called Companies House. These documents have to be submitted by every Limited Company.
Our parent company is Swansea City Football 2002 Limited and the recently submitted Confirmation Statement shows that an American Company - Swansea Football LLC - holds around 67% of the shares in the football club.
The question is does the US have a comparable document that needs to published by each LLC that will show the shareholding in the American company that now owns our most of the club's shares?
It seems like there is still is still doubt as to who actually owns our club and I'm wondering if that information is freely available to public as it is in the UK. |  |
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| A question for our American posters on 16:29 - Dec 4 with 5162 views | dobjack2 |
If as I believe a Delaware based company is the owning vehicle then that information will not be available. |  | | |
| A question for our American posters on 16:55 - Dec 4 with 5115 views | PozuelosSideys |
Try the SEC website mate, that may be a decent starting point |  |
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| A question for our American posters on 17:09 - Dec 4 with 5048 views | Vetchfielder |
| A question for our American posters on 16:29 - Dec 4 by dobjack2 |
If as I believe a Delaware based company is the owning vehicle then that information will not be available. |
Thanks Dobjack,
So are you saying that some states require this information to be published whilst other states don't ?
Is Delaware unusual in not making this information available and therefore do certain companies register in Delaware purely for the purpose of secrecy ? | |
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| A question for our American posters on 17:43 - Dec 4 with 4983 views | dobjack2 |
| A question for our American posters on 17:09 - Dec 4 by Vetchfielder |
Thanks Dobjack,
So are you saying that some states require this information to be published whilst other states don't ?
Is Delaware unusual in not making this information available and therefore do certain companies register in Delaware purely for the purpose of secrecy ? |
Not from the USA so it's based on internet searches and what I gleaned from the Panama Papers.
I believe that are tax incentives for registering in Delaware as well as anonymity but you can basically hide who owns a company by registering it in Delaware. I am sure that our American posters with the right background could explain this better.
Bottom line is that if their holding vehicle is a Delaware registered company we won't find out who owns it. | | | |
| A question for our American posters on 17:51 - Dec 4 with 4965 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| A question for our American posters on 17:09 - Dec 4 by Vetchfielder |
Thanks Dobjack,
So are you saying that some states require this information to be published whilst other states don't ?
Is Delaware unusual in not making this information available and therefore do certain companies register in Delaware purely for the purpose of secrecy ? |
Not sure about secrecy, specifically, but over half the publicly traded corporations (and many private ones, too) in the USA are based out of Delaware for various legal and tax reasons.
I read once that there are over a million Delaware corporations, more than the entire population of the state. [Post edited 4 Dec 2016 17:57]
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| A question for our American posters on 17:52 - Dec 4 with 4960 views | Glyn1 |
| A question for our American posters on 17:09 - Dec 4 by Vetchfielder |
Thanks Dobjack,
So are you saying that some states require this information to be published whilst other states don't ?
Is Delaware unusual in not making this information available and therefore do certain companies register in Delaware purely for the purpose of secrecy ? |
The answer to that is YES, Delaware has confidentiality provisions and also a lower rate of tax than other U.S. States, which is why so many U.S. companies are registered there. Think of it as being approximately like a British company registering in the Channel Islands or the Bahamas. |  |
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| A question for our American posters on 18:01 - Dec 4 with 4931 views | Vetchfielder |
Thanks to everybody for the responses - it's much clearer now for me although I'm annoyed that we'll maybe never know who owns us. | |
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| A question for our American posters on 18:46 - Dec 4 with 4861 views | swan65split |
| A question for our American posters on 18:01 - Dec 4 by Vetchfielder |
Thanks to everybody for the responses - it's much clearer now for me although I'm annoyed that we'll maybe never know who owns us. |
would the FL know, as owners cant be involved with 2 clubs? or something like that. |  | | |
| A question for our American posters on 18:50 - Dec 4 with 4844 views | 3swan |
| A question for our American posters on 18:46 - Dec 4 by swan65split |
would the FL know, as owners cant be involved with 2 clubs? or something like that. |
Not sure how true it is, but my memory says that only have to declare if the shareholder owns above a certain %. | | | |
| A question for our American posters on 19:17 - Dec 4 with 4771 views | monmouth |
| A question for our American posters on 18:46 - Dec 4 by swan65split |
would the FL know, as owners cant be involved with 2 clubs? or something like that. |
As far as it goes Levien and Kaplan are the owners aren't they?
Backers aren't necessarily owners. They may not own any shares in the holding company either. Tax efficient Investment vehicles raise the funds and own the shares with a promise of potential returns. It's a risk but K&L won't want to go back to their 'investors' with an empty bowl. They will find a way to give them a return. May not be as much as the potential upside could have been. That's their entire reason for existing in life, obsessing about money. |  |
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| A question for our American posters on 19:17 - Dec 4 with 4770 views | SoberBaker |
| A question for our American posters on 18:01 - Dec 4 by Vetchfielder |
Thanks to everybody for the responses - it's much clearer now for me although I'm annoyed that we'll maybe never know who owns us. |
Just been reading your previous posts on this site. You seem to only post on here to gauge interest in certain matters.
Which one of the sharks are you then? |  |
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| A question for our American posters on 19:27 - Dec 4 with 4748 views | Vetchfielder |
| A question for our American posters on 19:17 - Dec 4 by SoberBaker |
Just been reading your previous posts on this site. You seem to only post on here to gauge interest in certain matters.
Which one of the sharks are you then? |
I see your point - I have only posted about what I think are important things.
On this particular issue, I only want to know who owns the club - I would have thought most supporters would.
I'm not a shark though, I am not related to any and have never even met any of them. | |
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| A question for our American posters on 19:29 - Dec 4 with 4737 views | Darran |
| A question for our American posters on 19:27 - Dec 4 by Vetchfielder |
I see your point - I have only posted about what I think are important things.
On this particular issue, I only want to know who owns the club - I would have thought most supporters would.
I'm not a shark though, I am not related to any and have never even met any of them. |
I looked through your posts last week too mate and I must say you're interesting. |  |
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| A question for our American posters on 19:30 - Dec 4 with 4736 views | SoberBaker |
| A question for our American posters on 19:27 - Dec 4 by Vetchfielder |
I see your point - I have only posted about what I think are important things.
On this particular issue, I only want to know who owns the club - I would have thought most supporters would.
I'm not a shark though, I am not related to any and have never even met any of them. |
Ah. So you're part of the Trust then? | |
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| A question for our American posters on 20:09 - Dec 4 with 4670 views | phact0rri |
I will say, an 'LLC' in the US is about as dubious and clouded in mystery a company can be. And they form the basis of many rackets and schemes in the US. From laundrying to clouded donations and lobby groups. *grumble grumble, complain complain* |  |
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