| UKIP & the EU 17:18 - Jan 10 with 3279 views | veritas |
Can someone explain something to me, let's not beat around the bush the reason people vote UKIP is because they want to pull up the drawbridge.
But the whole debate regarding immigration is around 'EU immigration' - this is the sort of immigration that has no real tangible cultural difference. Do people really worry if we have a few more italians, spanish etc?
Really?
Let's be honest non EU migration is more of a drain on our resources and far more dangerous in terms of crime/terrorism and community cohesion.
Yet because of UKIP all we ever hear about is EU migration, this seems mad to me as this immigration is a net benefit to the Country.
I think our future is in the heart of Europe and we should be coming together not growing apart. The key should be pulling up the drawbridge to parts of the World which have an open hostility to us.
This moral relativist nonsense has meant that we've been hard nosed on those fleeing persecution in Iraq for instance like the Iraqi Christians - we should be helping people like them but we can't take sides apparently. This is where we've completely lost it. |  | | |  |
| UKIP & the EU on 18:02 - Jan 10 with 2177 views | swan65split |
Just try to think what those people who voted in , what was it 1973 ? were all alive today and what would you think the answer would be? |  | | |
| UKIP & the EU on 18:15 - Jan 10 with 2166 views | Kilkennyjack |
The UK certainly needs to be part of Europe going forwards, and especially Cymru and Scotland. Immigration is a different discussion. Whatever, the 1950's are not coming back any time soon so we all need to make the best of things. |  |
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| UKIP & the EU on 18:27 - Jan 10 with 2151 views | swan65split |
| UKIP & the EU on 18:15 - Jan 10 by Kilkennyjack |
The UK certainly needs to be part of Europe going forwards, and especially Cymru and Scotland. Immigration is a different discussion. Whatever, the 1950's are not coming back any time soon so we all need to make the best of things. |
Well, I would advice you to think hard and long before you vote, as 2015 is not the promised land we were led to believe was ahead of us in 1973. | | | |
| UKIP & the EU on 19:05 - Jan 10 with 2125 views | veritas |
| UKIP & the EU on 18:15 - Jan 10 by Kilkennyjack |
The UK certainly needs to be part of Europe going forwards, and especially Cymru and Scotland. Immigration is a different discussion. Whatever, the 1950's are not coming back any time soon so we all need to make the best of things. |
I suspect you would want to be isolated from the UK though?
For me we should be moving closer to a federal Europe, I have no fear about it. I have a fear that our heritage is being eroded from outside of Europe, not from within. Before anyone says that doesn't mean I want to pull up the drawbridge I would just dramatically reduce inflow and focus on integration not multiculturalism.
We should not be having a Net increase of 200k a year it's madness much of which is non eu [Post edited 10 Jan 2015 19:10]
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| UKIP & the EU on 23:57 - Jan 10 with 2058 views | Lohengrin |
| UKIP & the EU on 19:05 - Jan 10 by veritas |
I suspect you would want to be isolated from the UK though?
For me we should be moving closer to a federal Europe, I have no fear about it. I have a fear that our heritage is being eroded from outside of Europe, not from within. Before anyone says that doesn't mean I want to pull up the drawbridge I would just dramatically reduce inflow and focus on integration not multiculturalism.
We should not be having a Net increase of 200k a year it's madness much of which is non eu [Post edited 10 Jan 2015 19:10]
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You're absolutely correct, Britain's future would be bleak indeed outside of the European compact. As it stands, however, it's a mess. Fresh ideas and a complete overhaul are required, especially as regards the banking system. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 00:53 - Jan 11 with 2020 views | PozuelosSideys |
| UKIP & the EU on 19:05 - Jan 10 by veritas |
I suspect you would want to be isolated from the UK though?
For me we should be moving closer to a federal Europe, I have no fear about it. I have a fear that our heritage is being eroded from outside of Europe, not from within. Before anyone says that doesn't mean I want to pull up the drawbridge I would just dramatically reduce inflow and focus on integration not multiculturalism.
We should not be having a Net increase of 200k a year it's madness much of which is non eu [Post edited 10 Jan 2015 19:10]
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Some things/nationalities/traditions/beliefs just do not integrate with each other. They are like chalk and cheese. Square pegs in round holes. Its been tried before and failed.
Any changes made to the banking system by those nutter EU politicians would have a significnant negative impact on the UK. Its a massive part of our economy and those pesky Europeans (particularly those in Frankfurt and Paris) want a large piece of the action.
As it stands the Germans lead it, own it and decide what happens. Everyone else just nods their heads and agrees. Do you think the Germans would trade that off?
It needs to be a trading block, nothing more. |  |
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| UKIP & the EU on 00:57 - Jan 11 with 2017 views | skippyjack |
| UKIP & the EU on 23:57 - Jan 10 by Lohengrin |
You're absolutely correct, Britain's future would be bleak indeed outside of the European compact. As it stands, however, it's a mess. Fresh ideas and a complete overhaul are required, especially as regards the banking system. |
Fresh ideas? Complete overhaul? Change the banking system?.. I've got more chance of shagging Cheryl Cole within 3 hours than that.. we're being led by children in a play ground. |  |
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| UKIP & the EU on 07:23 - Jan 11 with 1971 views | dgt73 |
| UKIP & the EU on 23:57 - Jan 10 by Lohengrin |
You're absolutely correct, Britain's future would be bleak indeed outside of the European compact. As it stands, however, it's a mess. Fresh ideas and a complete overhaul are required, especially as regards the banking system. |
You say Britain's future would be bleak outside of the EU, then go on to say the EU is a mess lol. Other EU countries would still want to trade with an independent UK, or do you think they wouldn't. The UK leads the field in many areas and would flourish outside of the EU. Let's look to places like Canada, Australia, USA to increase trade and not basket economy's like RoI, Greece, Portugal etc. The EU is a Frankenstein failed experiment and sooner we leave the better. I bet you can't give one good economic reason to stay. [Post edited 11 Jan 2015 7:26]
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| UKIP & the EU on 08:18 - Jan 11 with 1955 views | Lohengrin |
| UKIP & the EU on 07:23 - Jan 11 by dgt73 |
You say Britain's future would be bleak outside of the EU, then go on to say the EU is a mess lol. Other EU countries would still want to trade with an independent UK, or do you think they wouldn't. The UK leads the field in many areas and would flourish outside of the EU. Let's look to places like Canada, Australia, USA to increase trade and not basket economy's like RoI, Greece, Portugal etc. The EU is a Frankenstein failed experiment and sooner we leave the better. I bet you can't give one good economic reason to stay. [Post edited 11 Jan 2015 7:26]
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Of course I can give a good economic reason to stay, it's very easy. The EU is home to some 500 million people, as an economic area in terms of GDP its output is higher than the US and Japan combined. We're part of a single market with the highest purchasing power on earth and our goods are transported and sold within the continent tariff-free. That's just me painting with a broad brush, if you really wanted a detailed breakdown I could hunt down all manner of stats from the CBI to illustrate the point but you get what I'm trying to say.
We're also in the privileged position of having strong global connections, the positive legacy of Empire I suppose. It's a link that business does tap into. EU membership doesn't preclude us seeking opportunities wherever and whenever they arise. The old Dominions to my mind are still very much part of the family. Perhaps that isn't being stressed loudly and often enough by those in the best position to do so.
The mess I was referring to wasn't the European Ideal itself, I hold firmly to that, it's some of the personalities and practices that have resulted in the waste and inefficiency that grab the headlines and paint the project often times in a bad light. There's huge scope for improvement. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 08:23 - Jan 11 with 1948 views | dgt73 |
| UKIP & the EU on 08:18 - Jan 11 by Lohengrin |
Of course I can give a good economic reason to stay, it's very easy. The EU is home to some 500 million people, as an economic area in terms of GDP its output is higher than the US and Japan combined. We're part of a single market with the highest purchasing power on earth and our goods are transported and sold within the continent tariff-free. That's just me painting with a broad brush, if you really wanted a detailed breakdown I could hunt down all manner of stats from the CBI to illustrate the point but you get what I'm trying to say.
We're also in the privileged position of having strong global connections, the positive legacy of Empire I suppose. It's a link that business does tap into. EU membership doesn't preclude us seeking opportunities wherever and whenever they arise. The old Dominions to my mind are still very much part of the family. Perhaps that isn't being stressed loudly and often enough by those in the best position to do so.
The mess I was referring to wasn't the European Ideal itself, I hold firmly to that, it's some of the personalities and practices that have resulted in the waste and inefficiency that grab the headlines and paint the project often times in a bad light. There's huge scope for improvement. |
These 500 million people would still be able to buy British goods from an independent UK. Tariffs could be lowered by the British government. | |
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| UKIP & the EU on 08:35 - Jan 11 with 1937 views | Lohengrin |
| UKIP & the EU on 08:23 - Jan 11 by dgt73 |
These 500 million people would still be able to buy British goods from an independent UK. Tariffs could be lowered by the British government. |
Tariffs are imposed by whatever country you would hope to sell to, mate. They are a means of protection for home producers.
Picture a firm manufacturing machine parts, let's say. Currently they are based in Swansea and the bulk of their orders come from northern Europe. If Britain were to leave the EU it would have a catastrophic effect on their ability to compete with their continental competitors. Chances are the firm would have to up sticks and relocate or be driven to the wall. That's the harsh reality. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 08:38 - Jan 11 with 1935 views | Andy1300 |
| UKIP & the EU on 08:23 - Jan 11 by dgt73 |
These 500 million people would still be able to buy British goods from an independent UK. Tariffs could be lowered by the British government. |
Don't be daft, pro Europe supporters can't think like that |  |
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| UKIP & the EU on 08:43 - Jan 11 with 1928 views | Lohengrin |
| UKIP & the EU on 08:38 - Jan 11 by Andy1300 |
Don't be daft, pro Europe supporters can't think like that |
That's because they've thought through the consequences. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| UKIP & the EU (n/t) on 08:53 - Jan 11 with 1912 views | Dr_Winston |
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 08:57 - Jan 11 with 1907 views | Dr_Winston |
There is no serious argument beyond the economic for remaining within the EU, and a rapidly increasing desire within the populations of the net contributors to put an end to the whole damn thing.
All we need is a free trade area. Nothing more. Imagine how many billions could be spent on more important things. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 09:02 - Jan 11 with 1901 views | exiledclaseboy |
| UKIP & the EU on 08:57 - Jan 11 by Dr_Winston |
There is no serious argument beyond the economic for remaining within the EU, and a rapidly increasing desire within the populations of the net contributors to put an end to the whole damn thing.
All we need is a free trade area. Nothing more. Imagine how many billions could be spent on more important things. |
About £11bn. That's what the EU costs the UK. Out of a total public spend of about £650bn.
This is unquantifiable because I can't be arsed to look but I'd imagine the economic benefits of membership far outweigh the costs. |  |
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| UKIP & the EU on 09:06 - Jan 11 with 1894 views | Lohengrin |
| UKIP & the EU on 08:57 - Jan 11 by Dr_Winston |
There is no serious argument beyond the economic for remaining within the EU, and a rapidly increasing desire within the populations of the net contributors to put an end to the whole damn thing.
All we need is a free trade area. Nothing more. Imagine how many billions could be spent on more important things. |
There is, of course, the fact that our interconnection and interdependence has heralded a lasting peace after two millenia of fratricidal conflict. Stretching back through the generations war with France, Germany or Spain was planned for, it is now unthinkable. You can't put a price on that. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 09:10 - Jan 11 with 1889 views | Dr_Winston |
| UKIP & the EU on 09:02 - Jan 11 by exiledclaseboy |
About £11bn. That's what the EU costs the UK. Out of a total public spend of about £650bn.
This is unquantifiable because I can't be arsed to look but I'd imagine the economic benefits of membership far outweigh the costs. |
Those economic benefits would remain with a free trade area. Which is what was voted for. No need for anything else.
And that's £11bn just in the UK. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 09:19 - Jan 11 with 1872 views | Dr_Winston |
| UKIP & the EU on 09:06 - Jan 11 by Lohengrin |
There is, of course, the fact that our interconnection and interdependence has heralded a lasting peace after two millenia of fratricidal conflict. Stretching back through the generations war with France, Germany or Spain was planned for, it is now unthinkable. You can't put a price on that. |
Sheer terror of the Soviets parked on the doorstep of Europe for 45 years heralded a lasting peace. Unite or get picked off. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 09:33 - Jan 11 with 1862 views | Lohengrin |
| UKIP & the EU on 09:19 - Jan 11 by Dr_Winston |
Sheer terror of the Soviets parked on the doorstep of Europe for 45 years heralded a lasting peace. Unite or get picked off. |
The red threat provided the impetus, no question. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 09:55 - Jan 11 with 1837 views | Dr_Winston |
| UKIP & the EU on 09:33 - Jan 11 by Lohengrin |
The red threat provided the impetus, no question. |
I think the trend for war was heading downwards anyway. An odd thing to say given the WW1 & 2 for sure, but we hadn't been at war with the French or Spanish for almost 150 years before the Treaty of Rome. We'd almost never been at war with the Germans or their predecessor states. Hell, they were our buddies for the most part. An entirely avoidable first conflict lead to a second fuelled by bitterness and hate. That alone would have been enough I think.
The concern I have is that the more and more people think that they are getting pushed into something they don't want to be part of (and the rapidly increasing vote share for nationalist/far right parties across Europe bears that out) the greater the chance is for future conflict. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| UKIP & the EU on 10:09 - Jan 11 with 1824 views | dgt73 |
| UKIP & the EU on 08:35 - Jan 11 by Lohengrin |
Tariffs are imposed by whatever country you would hope to sell to, mate. They are a means of protection for home producers.
Picture a firm manufacturing machine parts, let's say. Currently they are based in Swansea and the bulk of their orders come from northern Europe. If Britain were to leave the EU it would have a catastrophic effect on their ability to compete with their continental competitors. Chances are the firm would have to up sticks and relocate or be driven to the wall. That's the harsh reality. |
The UK imports more from other EU countries Than it exports, so it's other EU countries would be the big losers if it put up artificial barriers. Free trade yes political union they can shove up their arse. [Post edited 11 Jan 2015 10:24]
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| UKIP & the EU on 10:17 - Jan 11 with 1816 views | dgt73 |
| UKIP & the EU on 09:02 - Jan 11 by exiledclaseboy |
About £11bn. That's what the EU costs the UK. Out of a total public spend of about £650bn.
This is unquantifiable because I can't be arsed to look but I'd imagine the economic benefits of membership far outweigh the costs. |
Maybe that £11 billion could be used to pay towards the interest charges the Uk will make this year on the money it borrows ( now standing at £50 billion a year and rising) | |
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| UKIP & the EU on 10:22 - Jan 11 with 1813 views | dgt73 |
| UKIP & the EU on 09:06 - Jan 11 by Lohengrin |
There is, of course, the fact that our interconnection and interdependence has heralded a lasting peace after two millenia of fratricidal conflict. Stretching back through the generations war with France, Germany or Spain was planned for, it is now unthinkable. You can't put a price on that. |
Modern technology and weapons is what has guaranteed peace since ww2. The realisation of shared mutual destruction has put off the war mongering nations of Europe ( including the Brits)😄 from going to war with each other. | |
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| UKIP & the EU on 10:22 - Jan 11 with 1813 views | johnlangy |
| UKIP & the EU on 00:53 - Jan 11 by PozuelosSideys |
Some things/nationalities/traditions/beliefs just do not integrate with each other. They are like chalk and cheese. Square pegs in round holes. Its been tried before and failed.
Any changes made to the banking system by those nutter EU politicians would have a significnant negative impact on the UK. Its a massive part of our economy and those pesky Europeans (particularly those in Frankfurt and Paris) want a large piece of the action.
As it stands the Germans lead it, own it and decide what happens. Everyone else just nods their heads and agrees. Do you think the Germans would trade that off?
It needs to be a trading block, nothing more. |
You mean the banking system led by bankers who caused the crash ? You mean changes like that made to the level of banker's bonus's which the EU brought in (100% correctly) and to which the banks simply said f$%k you, we'll give them shares or whatever instead (these are the, effectively, thieves that screwed us all into the ground 6/7 years ago and who, barring a very small number, have not suffered in the slightest for their actions). They are STILL screwing us.
These 'nutter' politicians tried to do something to control the bankers immoral greed. How would that have a negative impact on the UK ? Are you saying that, because it's a massive part of our economy they should be allowed free reign to screw us again ? | | | |
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