| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic 12:17 - Jan 4 with 53809 views | exiledclaseboy |
Apparently. Cue a few days of outraged reaction until Oldham change their mind. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 20:45 - Jan 6 with 1631 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 20:38 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
No you didnt lisa, scroll up - you said, and I quote
'steal' or 'jump' in a cab.
Completely different and well within my rights to read it as what it says and not to what you have now changed it to. But anyway...
Yes he even took screenshots for you. Do you not question the fact that rape is not a blanket sentence like first degree murder then?
I am not desperate for him to be innocent at all. I am making it patently obvious that this case is not the same as the rape cases we hear about and fear. His innocence or guilt in this mild case of rape is not for me to say, all I can state is how there are many facets to this and should not be portrayed the way it is.
My point is that our country allows people to work after prison and we should not change that policy because of Ched Evans. Whether he is guilty or not is something else, but if he is guilty then he is not guilty of the seedy, violent, controlling rape that doesn't even bear thinking about. |
So a teacher for example would be allowed to work in a school after a rape conviction?
Work after prison is a misnomer. He's not completed his sentence having been released on licence. Ergo he's still under a lot of restrictions. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 20:47 - Jan 6 with 1618 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 20:45 - Jan 6 by reddythered |
So a teacher for example would be allowed to work in a school after a rape conviction?
Work after prison is a misnomer. He's not completed his sentence having been released on licence. Ergo he's still under a lot of restrictions. |
No, a teacher needs a CRB check. And so does any other position of authority where an occupation is heavily involved with the public.
A footballer doesn't.
These things have been thought of you know, the Ched Evans case hasn't got government scrambling for the handbook of prison leavers being integrated into society.
None of his restrictions revolve around working as a footballer. Shall we just make one up to spite him? [Post edited 6 Jan 2015 20:48]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 20:50 - Jan 6 with 1607 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 20:38 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
No you didnt lisa, scroll up - you said, and I quote
'steal' or 'jump' in a cab.
Completely different and well within my rights to read it as what it says and not to what you have now changed it to. But anyway...
Yes he even took screenshots for you. Do you not question the fact that rape is not a blanket sentence like first degree murder then?
I am not desperate for him to be innocent at all. I am making it patently obvious that this case is not the same as the rape cases we hear about and fear. His innocence or guilt in this mild case of rape is not for me to say, all I can state is how there are many facets to this and should not be portrayed the way it is.
My point is that our country allows people to work after prison and we should not change that policy because of Ched Evans. Whether he is guilty or not is something else, but if he is guilty then he is not guilty of the seedy, violent, controlling rape that doesn't even bear thinking about. |
oh for God's sake - I was answering your point and didn't say you had said she stole a cab - stop arguing for the sake of it will you.
And no - I don't believe rape to be a blanket sentence but as I pointed out to Shaky, the rape itself is far worse than any of the attached violence. You and he seem to be mistaking violence for physical 'hurt'. There is little more violent than rape itself, which is why it is used so frequently in war situations for example.
The case is not the same as you fear because you are not a woman and therefore the chances of you being raped are minimal. I have thankfully never been raped either, but I have had my drink spiked - quite a number of years ago in a club called China White. Now thankfully, I realised straight away that something was very wrong as I had only had one drink so realised that it had happened and managed to make it into the ladies loo where I stayed in a locked cubicle for about 3 hours on the floor realising that it was the safest place before I managed to recover enough to alert the staff who alerted the guys at the door who were able to arrange safe transport home.
I'm glad that you don't think that to be seedy or controlling, but I do. And please stop saying 'whether he is guilty or not' because as you are so keen on allowing due legal process, I am sure that you will agree he is is guilty. FACT as they say. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:03 - Jan 6 with 1589 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 20:50 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
oh for God's sake - I was answering your point and didn't say you had said she stole a cab - stop arguing for the sake of it will you.
And no - I don't believe rape to be a blanket sentence but as I pointed out to Shaky, the rape itself is far worse than any of the attached violence. You and he seem to be mistaking violence for physical 'hurt'. There is little more violent than rape itself, which is why it is used so frequently in war situations for example.
The case is not the same as you fear because you are not a woman and therefore the chances of you being raped are minimal. I have thankfully never been raped either, but I have had my drink spiked - quite a number of years ago in a club called China White. Now thankfully, I realised straight away that something was very wrong as I had only had one drink so realised that it had happened and managed to make it into the ladies loo where I stayed in a locked cubicle for about 3 hours on the floor realising that it was the safest place before I managed to recover enough to alert the staff who alerted the guys at the door who were able to arrange safe transport home.
I'm glad that you don't think that to be seedy or controlling, but I do. And please stop saying 'whether he is guilty or not' because as you are so keen on allowing due legal process, I am sure that you will agree he is is guilty. FACT as they say. |
Lisa, you are doing it again. I have answered what you wrote, you took exception to it and changed what you said to what you now realise you should have said.... Yu are now calling that arguing for the sake of arguing after me pointing out that you indeed didn't say what you now claim to. This is why your arguments fall flat.
I completely disagree, i would rather someone have sex with me in a drunken stupor than beat me to within an inch of my life at gunpoint or knife point. I think you will find guns, knives and physical violence are used far more in war situations.
Rape is not a nice thing, I've not suggested it is. But there is differing levels of offence. Are you suggesting Ched Evans spiked her drink, that is a serious allegation there. She was drunk, she went back to a footballers hotel room who she met that night for sex and ched comes in. Now what happens after that, nobody will ever know - not even the jury. Why? Because not even she knows.
A multitude of people are falsely accused of rape, many convicted too. I am not naive enough to think is someone is convicted then they did it, there is a reason we no longer hang people. A woman crying rape after an exchange with a footballer is not an uncommon thing, even Cristiano Ronaldo has had it. I am not saying this is the case but I am open minded, especially when her tweets have surfaced. Again i am not suggesting they prove she is lying but not all is as it seems.
So whenever i discuss this i will continue to say whether is guilty or not, simply because I dont know. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:03 - Jan 6 with 1588 views | Daggyjack |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 20:18 - Jan 5 by Parlay |
Of course there are differing levels of seriousness when it comes to rape. |
Differing levels of seriousness, yes but never a "mild" rape.
It's not a case of the flu we are talking about, so yes, saying a case of rape is mild is stupid, without doubt. |  | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:06 - Jan 6 with 1574 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:03 - Jan 6 by Daggyjack |
Differing levels of seriousness, yes but never a "mild" rape.
It's not a case of the flu we are talking about, so yes, saying a case of rape is mild is stupid, without doubt. |
What would you like us to call it, petal? |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:07 - Jan 6 with 1574 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:03 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
Lisa, you are doing it again. I have answered what you wrote, you took exception to it and changed what you said to what you now realise you should have said.... Yu are now calling that arguing for the sake of arguing after me pointing out that you indeed didn't say what you now claim to. This is why your arguments fall flat.
I completely disagree, i would rather someone have sex with me in a drunken stupor than beat me to within an inch of my life at gunpoint or knife point. I think you will find guns, knives and physical violence are used far more in war situations.
Rape is not a nice thing, I've not suggested it is. But there is differing levels of offence. Are you suggesting Ched Evans spiked her drink, that is a serious allegation there. She was drunk, she went back to a footballers hotel room who she met that night for sex and ched comes in. Now what happens after that, nobody will ever know - not even the jury. Why? Because not even she knows.
A multitude of people are falsely accused of rape, many convicted too. I am not naive enough to think is someone is convicted then they did it, there is a reason we no longer hang people. A woman crying rape after an exchange with a footballer is not an uncommon thing, even Cristiano Ronaldo has had it. I am not saying this is the case but I am open minded, especially when her tweets have surfaced. Again i am not suggesting they prove she is lying but not all is as it seems.
So whenever i discuss this i will continue to say whether is guilty or not, simply because I dont know. |
I haven't changed what i said - you are being ridiculous.
And you will thankfully not have to choose since rape doesn't happen except in very rare situations to men.
No - I am not suggesting that Ched Evans spiked her drink because she never met him - he let himself into her room. I know you dress that up with 'he came in' - he BROKE IN under false pretences.
And it doesn't matter whether you know or not. The jury found him guilty. Full stop. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:09 - Jan 6 with 1560 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:07 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
I haven't changed what i said - you are being ridiculous.
And you will thankfully not have to choose since rape doesn't happen except in very rare situations to men.
No - I am not suggesting that Ched Evans spiked her drink because she never met him - he let himself into her room. I know you dress that up with 'he came in' - he BROKE IN under false pretences.
And it doesn't matter whether you know or not. The jury found him guilty. Full stop. |
Broke in?
He had paid for the room, Lisa. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:10 - Jan 6 with 1556 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:06 - Jan 6 by Shaky |
What would you like us to call it, petal? |
you really are an offensive little twerp aren't you.
What would you call it if someone raped you without your consent? What if you were drunk? Would that change everything? Or wouldn't you care? | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:10 - Jan 6 with 1553 views | ItchySphincter |
Yeah, he paid for the room on his card didn't he? Someone should have told the jury that entitled him to knob her. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:11 - Jan 6 with 1535 views | Daggyjack |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:06 - Jan 6 by Shaky |
What would you like us to call it, petal? |
Call it what you want, flower. You and Parlay have been spouting pompous rubbish for the past few pages. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:14 - Jan 6 with 1523 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:10 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
you really are an offensive little twerp aren't you.
What would you call it if someone raped you without your consent? What if you were drunk? Would that change everything? Or wouldn't you care? |
Still in denial regarding the variation in degrees of seriousness, I see. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:15 - Jan 6 with 1521 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:07 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
I haven't changed what i said - you are being ridiculous.
And you will thankfully not have to choose since rape doesn't happen except in very rare situations to men.
No - I am not suggesting that Ched Evans spiked her drink because she never met him - he let himself into her room. I know you dress that up with 'he came in' - he BROKE IN under false pretences.
And it doesn't matter whether you know or not. The jury found him guilty. Full stop. |
What? You did change it, its there for all to see. You then conveniently moved your punctuation when clarifying. Read it again.
You have exchanged a story with me and I shall share one with you. Maybe both our experiences are shaping our respective views here....
I was on a football tour in Liverpool about 7 years ago. We went back to the student digs of a few girls we met that night, my friend went off in the other room with one of the girls. She had a boyfriend but was begging my mate to go to her room, which he didnt need convincing. After an hour or so they emerged from the room, laughing and joking, we carried on drinking. The woman then slowly sobered up and realised she had a missed call from her boyfriend on her phone, it then obviously dawned on her what she had done and she started to cry and say that my friend raped her! She then got more and more upset to the point she was screaming rape and for the guys in the next dorm to come and get him! We all had to leg it.
Can you imagine if my mate was collared. The DNA evidence would suggest they obviously did have sex so it would be her word against his. In an attempt to not look like she cheated on her boyfriend she would have happily let a man go down for years and ruin his life. This happens all too often and something in this case doesnt ring true to me. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:15 - Jan 6 with 1521 views | JBT95 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:07 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
I haven't changed what i said - you are being ridiculous.
And you will thankfully not have to choose since rape doesn't happen except in very rare situations to men.
No - I am not suggesting that Ched Evans spiked her drink because she never met him - he let himself into her room. I know you dress that up with 'he came in' - he BROKE IN under false pretences.
And it doesn't matter whether you know or not. The jury found him guilty. Full stop. |
Never heard of a miscarriage of justice? |  | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:20 - Jan 6 with 1507 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:15 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
What? You did change it, its there for all to see. You then conveniently moved your punctuation when clarifying. Read it again.
You have exchanged a story with me and I shall share one with you. Maybe both our experiences are shaping our respective views here....
I was on a football tour in Liverpool about 7 years ago. We went back to the student digs of a few girls we met that night, my friend went off in the other room with one of the girls. She had a boyfriend but was begging my mate to go to her room, which he didnt need convincing. After an hour or so they emerged from the room, laughing and joking, we carried on drinking. The woman then slowly sobered up and realised she had a missed call from her boyfriend on her phone, it then obviously dawned on her what she had done and she started to cry and say that my friend raped her! She then got more and more upset to the point she was screaming rape and for the guys in the next dorm to come and get him! We all had to leg it.
Can you imagine if my mate was collared. The DNA evidence would suggest they obviously did have sex so it would be her word against his. In an attempt to not look like she cheated on her boyfriend she would have happily let a man go down for years and ruin his life. This happens all too often and something in this case doesnt ring true to me. |
that's not the same thing at all though is it. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:21 - Jan 6 with 1500 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 20:47 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
No, a teacher needs a CRB check. And so does any other position of authority where an occupation is heavily involved with the public.
A footballer doesn't.
These things have been thought of you know, the Ched Evans case hasn't got government scrambling for the handbook of prison leavers being integrated into society.
None of his restrictions revolve around working as a footballer. Shall we just make one up to spite him? [Post edited 6 Jan 2015 20:48]
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So the simple fact you ignore, namely that his sentence has not been served hence has to report to probation officer every week and is prohibited from working abroad as a consequence isn't a "restriction"?
WIthin football, physios have quite a lot of physical contact with players. A number of clubs have females working within physio/fitness departments. You seriously think employing a convicted unrepentant rapist, on the sex offenders list doesn't cause problems for such clubs? In the unlikely event anything happened, the club would be exposing itself quite badly from a legal perspective...
Footballers also work within the community, often with youngsters. So CRB checks could/should be applied. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:23 - Jan 6 with 1492 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:14 - Jan 6 by Shaky |
Still in denial regarding the variation in degrees of seriousness, I see. |
not at all - I am just saying that the worst bit is the bit you are dismissing as 'mild'.
Bruises or cuts heal, the emotional trauma not so easily.
If you were raped then I think you would realise which the worst bit is. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:24 - Jan 6 with 1486 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:20 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
that's not the same thing at all though is it. |
We dont know, thats the point. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:26 - Jan 6 with 1475 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:21 - Jan 6 by reddythered |
So the simple fact you ignore, namely that his sentence has not been served hence has to report to probation officer every week and is prohibited from working abroad as a consequence isn't a "restriction"?
WIthin football, physios have quite a lot of physical contact with players. A number of clubs have females working within physio/fitness departments. You seriously think employing a convicted unrepentant rapist, on the sex offenders list doesn't cause problems for such clubs? In the unlikely event anything happened, the club would be exposing itself quite badly from a legal perspective...
Footballers also work within the community, often with youngsters. So CRB checks could/should be applied. |
Yes i am ignoring it as it doesn't not stop him being a footballer does it.
I have no idea what tangent you are going off on now but you seem to be disagreeing with our laws of the land of which you live by?
I think you need to aim that at David Cameron mate, in the mean time I will continue to live by those rules and Ched will continue to be well within his rights to work as a footballer, eventually. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:28 - Jan 6 with 1463 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:23 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
not at all - I am just saying that the worst bit is the bit you are dismissing as 'mild'.
Bruises or cuts heal, the emotional trauma not so easily.
If you were raped then I think you would realise which the worst bit is. |
You are ascribing some sort of hidden and wildly pejorative meaning to the word mild that simply doesn't exist, except in your fevered imagination. Mild to severe, gentle to harsh, etc.
For the final time, what alternative word do you find acceptable? | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:29 - Jan 6 with 1445 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:24 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
We dont know, thats the point. |
no - under Ched Evans' own testimony that's not the same thing.
He admits he let himself into the room having never met her previously.
You know that it was his own testimony that convicted him don't you? He described events that are legally rape. She didn't testify. He's just confused as to what constitutes rape under the law - as are you it seems. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:31 - Jan 6 with 1434 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:29 - Jan 6 by londonlisa2001 |
no - under Ched Evans' own testimony that's not the same thing.
He admits he let himself into the room having never met her previously.
You know that it was his own testimony that convicted him don't you? He described events that are legally rape. She didn't testify. He's just confused as to what constitutes rape under the law - as are you it seems. |
......And then he asked if he could join in to which she allegedly said "yeah". What confused matters is Ched said he asked her if he could join in, and Blackmore said he asked her. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:34 - Jan 6 with 1424 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:26 - Jan 6 by Parlay |
Yes i am ignoring it as it doesn't not stop him being a footballer does it.
I have no idea what tangent you are going off on now but you seem to be disagreeing with our laws of the land of which you live by?
I think you need to aim that at David Cameron mate, in the mean time I will continue to live by those rules and Ched will continue to be well within his rights to work as a footballer, eventually. |
It prevents him being a footballer when there's no club in the UK willing to take him on, right? Equally, he'll certainly have problems doing community work expected of modern day footballers. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:38 - Jan 6 with 1408 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:28 - Jan 6 by Shaky |
You are ascribing some sort of hidden and wildly pejorative meaning to the word mild that simply doesn't exist, except in your fevered imagination. Mild to severe, gentle to harsh, etc.
For the final time, what alternative word do you find acceptable? |
I haven't said anything other than the bit that is the worst is the bit that you are deeming to be the least severe.
You also haven't asked me what word I would find acceptable - you are mistaking me for others. However, I find the word 'mild' to be inappropriate to describe any form of rape if you are asking me that question for the first time now.
In the same way as you would, I imagine, find any form of someone raping you to be 'mild'. There are various degrees of severity for all sorts of things - it doesn't mean that the starting point is always 'mild'. Cancer for example - I would imagine that someone with a less aggressive form of cancer would be unlikely to describe their disease as 'mild'. Similarly with paralysis - again, there are varying degrees, none of which would be accurately described as 'mild'. Sometimes you need to add some common sense to the interpretation of all those books you know... | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:38 - Jan 6 with 1400 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 21:34 - Jan 6 by reddythered |
It prevents him being a footballer when there's no club in the UK willing to take him on, right? Equally, he'll certainly have problems doing community work expected of modern day footballers. |
Only in terms of that same notion stopping me becoming a footballer too. If a club wants him, they will take him and be well within their rights to do so. | |
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