| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic 12:17 - Jan 4 with 53806 views | exiledclaseboy |
Apparently. Cue a few days of outraged reaction until Oldham change their mind. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:17 - Jan 7 with 1686 views | C_jack |
So Oldham are close to agreeing the deal
I expect to see every one of the 100,000 people at Boundary Park on the weekend, continuing with their protest. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:17 - Jan 7 with 1685 views | reddythered |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:04 - Jan 7 by Parlay |
The players recollections were similar, they were drunk remember. The woman couldnt even remember getting there, does that mean as her story will be hazy she raped ched? No. Evans did not receive a charge for breaking an entering, it was his friends room. Leaving via a fire escape meant he raped her?? Dear god. The amount of windows I've climbed out of due to me not wanting to wake up next to my lady friend I met on a night out would be beyond comprehension... Doesn't mean i raped them. |
Good grief.
The girl did not make the claim of rape.
Breaking and entering? Seriously why are you being tendentious? Evans misrepresented himself to get the room key to enter. Here's a question for you. Evans spoke to Donaldson on the phone before getting to the hotel. Why then did he not ask consent? Why then did he determine to get the key under false pretences and thwn claim to ask consent?
Leaving via a fire escape isn't evidence of rape in itself, stop being incredibly dull and ascribing views not present.
The whole remit of court cases is considering all pertinent evidence; quite frankly all elements of Evans' behaviour establish a pattern of not wanting to be known entering the room, of wanting to leave the room without detection. Adding everything together, that's going to be quite damning. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:18 - Jan 7 with 1684 views | ItchySphincter |
Thats why I used the word 'insinuate'.
You have been portraying the night's events as a drunken romp and a regretful floozy the morning after. You might say you're not but that's how it reads. |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:24 - Jan 7 with 1658 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:18 - Jan 7 by ItchySphincter |
Thats why I used the word 'insinuate'.
You have been portraying the night's events as a drunken romp and a regretful floozy the morning after. You might say you're not but that's how it reads. |
Ive done nothing of the sort. I wasn't there, i cant portray it as anything.
The facts seem to be, there were 3 people in the room. None of which accused each-other of rape. The ones that can remember say consent was given, the other cant remember one way or the other. Thats not me painting it as regret.
Boozy night? Absolutely. All 3's memory is clearly hazy. Yet we convict someone of rape? |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:24 - Jan 7 with 1658 views | ItchySphincter |
Signed this afternoon, on the bench Saturday. It's going to fun. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:26 - Jan 7 with 1648 views | Jackfath |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:24 - Jan 7 by ItchySphincter |
Signed this afternoon, on the bench Saturday. It's going to fun. |
Do you think he'll get booed? If he scores, I wonder what his celebration would be? Does this now pave the way for a return for Wales? |  |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:31 - Jan 7 with 1640 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:17 - Jan 7 by reddythered |
Good grief.
The girl did not make the claim of rape.
Breaking and entering? Seriously why are you being tendentious? Evans misrepresented himself to get the room key to enter. Here's a question for you. Evans spoke to Donaldson on the phone before getting to the hotel. Why then did he not ask consent? Why then did he determine to get the key under false pretences and thwn claim to ask consent?
Leaving via a fire escape isn't evidence of rape in itself, stop being incredibly dull and ascribing views not present.
The whole remit of court cases is considering all pertinent evidence; quite frankly all elements of Evans' behaviour establish a pattern of not wanting to be known entering the room, of wanting to leave the room without detection. Adding everything together, that's going to be quite damning. |
I have stated time and time again she did not claim rape - what are you going on about?
Yes breaking and entering. He did not do this - and this doesn't mean rape. I have no idea why he didn't ask on the phone, i wasn't there. All though logic tells me that If i was feeling frisky and thought i had a chance to join in with my mate and his one night stand id certainly want to see her first prior to asking, to make sure i wasn't going to get involved with a Susan Boyle lookalike. He asked for the key because his mate was with a girl, i mean, what?! That is in no way implement him with rape.
Well good, lets leave the rubbish fire escape talk then. If you are dull enough to bring it up then it will be responded to in like. Yes i can really see both men wanting to cuddle up and have a lovely holiday inn breakfast at first light. Its sort of what people do on a one night stand... leave post haste.
I completely disagree that the above is damning, in fact anything but. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:32 - Jan 7 with 1635 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:26 - Jan 7 by Jackfath |
Do you think he'll get booed? If he scores, I wonder what his celebration would be? Does this now pave the way for a return for Wales? |
Hope so, we have nothing up front. Vokes doesn't inspire me with confidence. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:46 - Jan 7 with 1603 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 13:22 - Jan 7 by Uxbridge |
I do struggle with this bit though, and I say this as someone who's not read the case in any great detail.
There seems to be the presumption that a woman has to give verbal (and no doubt written at some point in the future) consent, however there's no presumption for the man needing to give consent. That does seem rather contradictory.
Rape's an abhorrent crime but it's not exclusively in one direction. Appreciate that's little to do with this case in particular, but there's an element of Parley's earlier comments on this that leaves pretty much every drunken one night stand open to interpretation. |
The judge in this case specifically reminded the jury that drunken consent is still valid consent.
However, there is a point of inebriation at which someone will move past 'drunk' to being unable to consciously make a decision (and, therefore, unable to give consent). That is I would think, the whole point of the so called 'date rape' drugs - to put a woman (or man I guess) in that position of being unable to consciously react.
There may be a number of reasons why this sometimes happens - we have all, I'm sure, sometimes drunk an amount which affects us differently to how that same amount would usually affect us - whether through what we've eaten (or not eaten), stress, hormones, chemicals in the brain, mixture of drinks, whatever - we don't know why it happens, but all recognise that sometimes it does. You can sometimes be in a position where you haven't got a clue what's going on - you can even walk, or get home, but completely lose awareness.
It is, unlike a drunken one night stand, not possible to give valid consent under the law in this state, hence the conviction. The reason, as I understand it, that the other guy was not found guilty, was that she had met him previously that night and had presumably agreed to go back to the hotel with him before this state kicked in (since you obviously continue to get 'drunker' for some time after having your last drink) and therefore, the jury deemed it likely that consent had effectively been given (or actually, they couldn't deem it likely beyond reasonable doubt that it hadn't been given).
Since she didn't meet Evans beforehand and had not agreed to go anywhere with him, the jury found it to be the case (in their eyes, beyond a reasonable doubt) that by the time he let himself into a hotel room uninvited, she was in no position to consciously give consent (whether drunken consent or not).
The 'drunken one night stand' bit is far more akin to the first bit (i.e. the bloke who wasn't found guilty) than the second bit in my view and yet it seems some are unable to distinguish between the two. Of course, a cynic would point out that such distinction is so easy, that the whole 'it was just a drunken one night stand, happens every weekend' stuff, is simply a convenient tale put about on multiple media sites by Evans' family and friends to make it seem less than it really is. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:46 - Jan 7 with 1601 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 09:17 - Jan 7 by Starsky |
It's not the same thing indeed.
However, you can see why Parlay has taken his stance with Ched Evans.
After his Liverpool experience, he thinks all intoxicated girls are asking for it.
You must have had a mild scare there, Parlay. |
I was too drunk to fully appreciate how bad it could have got to be honest Starsky. It wasn't until a few weeks after and we reflected on it did we realise what would have happened if he had been grabbed. He could still be in prison now.
Having said that, i wouldn't go as far to say all drunk girls are "asking for it". But have first hand experience of witnessing how these things can unfold and the ease in which someone can be implicated when no crime has been committed, yet all the proof the accuser needs is present. Thats pretty scary.
This consent thing though is so sketchy. In all my years of when i was single i don't think I've ever asked "is it ok if we proceed to copulation now" all a bit of a mood killer really. Likewise with my fiancee of 9 years, i don't think once have we ever actually got "permission" of each-other.
For my money. You have 3 drunk people, one who went back for sex in a hotel with a bloke she just met and his mate that came in afterwards. Nobody has accused anybody of rape, the ones that remember say consent was given, id say leave it at that instead of ruining one of their lives.
If she felt she had been raped, then look at it. [Post edited 7 Jan 2015 14:47]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:52 - Jan 7 with 1590 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 13:53 - Jan 7 by Jackfath |
Like many other crimes, women are free to accuse men of the most heinous of crimes which are completely fabricated. This can be to ruin the man or to get their faces and names into the media.
I'd like to see women who accuse men of such crimes and found to be making it all up prosecuted themselves. One huge drawback to this as ECB will point out to me later when he gets back from shuffling papers for the day. |
Yes - it's terrible how biased towards women the whole legal system in this area is isn't it? | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:17 - Jan 7 with 1545 views | veritas |
The way people are treating this guy is becoming dangerous, you'd swear he'd gone on a mass killing spree or raped this woman with a knife to her throat. He's according to the Court of Law committed a vile crime but he has served his time and like many others before him should be treated as someone who has to be reintegrated into society. This hounding is becoming disgraceful and much of it comes from people who naturally bend over backwards to human rights. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:20 - Jan 7 with 1541 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:17 - Jan 7 by veritas |
The way people are treating this guy is becoming dangerous, you'd swear he'd gone on a mass killing spree or raped this woman with a knife to her throat. He's according to the Court of Law committed a vile crime but he has served his time and like many others before him should be treated as someone who has to be reintegrated into society. This hounding is becoming disgraceful and much of it comes from people who naturally bend over backwards to human rights. |
what about the far more dangerous hounding that his family and supporters have given to the girl in question including publishing video footage of her on his website (without permission)?
She's moved 5 times now because they keep making public her address and her identity. What's he had - a few newspaper articles and social media criticism - haven't noticed him having to move. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:23 - Jan 7 with 1533 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:20 - Jan 7 by londonlisa2001 |
what about the far more dangerous hounding that his family and supporters have given to the girl in question including publishing video footage of her on his website (without permission)?
She's moved 5 times now because they keep making public her address and her identity. What's he had - a few newspaper articles and social media criticism - haven't noticed him having to move. |
Surely that is something for those individuals to answer. You cant blame Evans for everything. [Post edited 7 Jan 2015 15:24]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:25 - Jan 7 with 1528 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:23 - Jan 7 by Parlay |
Surely that is something for those individuals to answer. You cant blame Evans for everything. [Post edited 7 Jan 2015 15:24]
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it's his website - paid for by his girlfriend's father.
And it's his family and friends that are constantly leaking info as well, so to be honest, I think I will blame him. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:33 - Jan 7 with 1508 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:25 - Jan 7 by londonlisa2001 |
it's his website - paid for by his girlfriend's father.
And it's his family and friends that are constantly leaking info as well, so to be honest, I think I will blame him. |
Then you are wrong to do so. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:39 - Jan 7 with 1497 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:33 - Jan 7 by Parlay |
Then you are wrong to do so. |
in your unjustifiable opinion.
When someone pays for their own web site then they accept responsibility for what is published on it - that's the law.
It's pretty simple. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:43 - Jan 7 with 1470 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:39 - Jan 7 by londonlisa2001 |
in your unjustifiable opinion.
When someone pays for their own web site then they accept responsibility for what is published on it - that's the law.
It's pretty simple. |
So its phils fault that someone was wishing people dead the other day?
Ill let him know. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:46 - Jan 7 with 1461 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:43 - Jan 7 by Parlay |
So its phils fault that someone was wishing people dead the other day?
Ill let him know. |
the hounding of the girl is not coming from an open forum feature on the web site.
It's the actual site content itself, which is why the AG is investigating it for contempt of court etc.
And if Phil published an article on this site that was in some way illegal, then he absolutely could be blamed and prosecuted for it which I'm pretty certain that he already knows. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:49 - Jan 7 with 1456 views | Parlay |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:46 - Jan 7 by londonlisa2001 |
the hounding of the girl is not coming from an open forum feature on the web site.
It's the actual site content itself, which is why the AG is investigating it for contempt of court etc.
And if Phil published an article on this site that was in some way illegal, then he absolutely could be blamed and prosecuted for it which I'm pretty certain that he already knows. |
No, its coming from his friends and family as you have said yourself.
If it was signed "ched evans" then id say ok fair point. But your need to blame everything and everything on ched evans even down to technicalities that he must be responsible for other peoples actions really isnt helping the situation or your stance which should be impartial. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:55 - Jan 7 with 1434 views | Parlay |
And another thing. If i was correctly convicted of being a rapist, on release id skulk away into the background and certainly wouldn't want to bring attention to it. Id want to leave it in the past and move on.
If i was wrongly convicted of rape i would feel it my duty to clear my name and a website showing how the prosecution was wrong would be the first on my list. | |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:56 - Jan 7 with 1433 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:49 - Jan 7 by Parlay |
No, its coming from his friends and family as you have said yourself.
If it was signed "ched evans" then id say ok fair point. But your need to blame everything and everything on ched evans even down to technicalities that he must be responsible for other peoples actions really isnt helping the situation or your stance which should be impartial. |
Interesting. Perhaps the publishers of other websites or newspapers etc should stop worrying about action being taken against them, since presumably the Daily Mail doesn't have individual signed copies saying 'Lord Rothermere' at the bottom either.
Your continued and unwavering support for him is also interesting. | | | |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:57 - Jan 7 with 1425 views | fbreath |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:17 - Jan 7 by veritas |
The way people are treating this guy is becoming dangerous, you'd swear he'd gone on a mass killing spree or raped this woman with a knife to her throat. He's according to the Court of Law committed a vile crime but he has served his time and like many others before him should be treated as someone who has to be reintegrated into society. This hounding is becoming disgraceful and much of it comes from people who naturally bend over backwards to human rights. |
Isn't he out on licence? |  |
| We are the first Welsh club to reach the Premier League Simples |
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:05 - Jan 7 with 1400 views | Uxbridge |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 14:46 - Jan 7 by londonlisa2001 |
The judge in this case specifically reminded the jury that drunken consent is still valid consent.
However, there is a point of inebriation at which someone will move past 'drunk' to being unable to consciously make a decision (and, therefore, unable to give consent). That is I would think, the whole point of the so called 'date rape' drugs - to put a woman (or man I guess) in that position of being unable to consciously react.
There may be a number of reasons why this sometimes happens - we have all, I'm sure, sometimes drunk an amount which affects us differently to how that same amount would usually affect us - whether through what we've eaten (or not eaten), stress, hormones, chemicals in the brain, mixture of drinks, whatever - we don't know why it happens, but all recognise that sometimes it does. You can sometimes be in a position where you haven't got a clue what's going on - you can even walk, or get home, but completely lose awareness.
It is, unlike a drunken one night stand, not possible to give valid consent under the law in this state, hence the conviction. The reason, as I understand it, that the other guy was not found guilty, was that she had met him previously that night and had presumably agreed to go back to the hotel with him before this state kicked in (since you obviously continue to get 'drunker' for some time after having your last drink) and therefore, the jury deemed it likely that consent had effectively been given (or actually, they couldn't deem it likely beyond reasonable doubt that it hadn't been given).
Since she didn't meet Evans beforehand and had not agreed to go anywhere with him, the jury found it to be the case (in their eyes, beyond a reasonable doubt) that by the time he let himself into a hotel room uninvited, she was in no position to consciously give consent (whether drunken consent or not).
The 'drunken one night stand' bit is far more akin to the first bit (i.e. the bloke who wasn't found guilty) than the second bit in my view and yet it seems some are unable to distinguish between the two. Of course, a cynic would point out that such distinction is so easy, that the whole 'it was just a drunken one night stand, happens every weekend' stuff, is simply a convenient tale put about on multiple media sites by Evans' family and friends to make it seem less than it really is. |
It's all a bit grey though isn't it, or is that just me?
There's no hard and fast rule in terms of what it takes somebody to get drunk. Hell I could have one day where one pint will have the same affect as 6 would. As you say it's a very subjective thing so it's difficult to see where that tipping point would be.
I'm not seeking to defend Evans at all, he seems a total horror, and to be honest my point is about the law in general rather than this case. It's the "too drunk to consent" thing that makes me a little nervous, and I suspect that's the case for 80% of this board that would still be virgins if the other party wasn't very drunk (the other 20% still not finding anyone drunk enough  ) [Post edited 7 Jan 2015 16:07]
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| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 16:09 - Jan 7 with 1381 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans to Oldham Athletic on 15:55 - Jan 7 by Parlay |
And another thing. If i was correctly convicted of being a rapist, on release id skulk away into the background and certainly wouldn't want to bring attention to it. Id want to leave it in the past and move on.
If i was wrongly convicted of rape i would feel it my duty to clear my name and a website showing how the prosecution was wrong would be the first on my list. |
Oh right - he must be innocent then. What a shame that the jury, court and court of appeals disagree eh?
And would you do your web site in the same way?
Would you also post up illegally obtained footage (only selected footage of course, nothing that shows you in a bad light like other CCTV evidence - don't want that up there). And what about texts - would you post the text itself or would you change the wording a bit to make you look like less of a sleazy git? And what about the victim? Would you publish details (indeed video) of her despite the law (which you are so keen on) saying that she is guaranteed lifelong privacy? And make sure that your family and mates put it out all over social media that she had a new name and was living in a new town?
What about stuff that she'd put on facebook months after the event and with no proven connection to the case - would you try to make sure that everyone thought it had been done straight away and was linked? And would you continue to leak stories that the girl is 'after money' even when every media outlet in the UK have categorically stated that she has never approached them and has turned down several big money offers?
Hell of a strategy. Makes me wonder why with bother with the legal system - what we should have is a case presented by your mates and family and then people can decide from that. Obviously, we'll let them just tell the bits they want to, because anything else would be just 'rampant feminism' and missing the whole point of the fact that 'lads' want to have a good time on occasion and if they get into a bit of bother well that's all just 'banter' isn't it? | | | |
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