Forum | Could we have won the 1970 World Cup by beeeater

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Could we have won the 1970 World Cup 16:09 - Jun 5 with 9142 views

I've been watching some of the World cup programmes on TV at the moment and something got me thinking. At the time of the 1970 tournament we had some of the best players in the world playing in the old English first division and they were not foreign . They were all from the UK. If we could have added players like Best, Law, Bremner, Jennings ( instead of Bonetti)Jimmy Johnstone and Lorimer to that squad I'm sure we would have won the 70 world cup . And playing as GB/UK we could of dominated World football for years.

[Post edited 5 Jun 2014 16:23]

Could we of won the 1970 World Cup on 16:12 - Jun 5 with 7891 views

SonofNorfolt

That Brazil team were one of the best ever.

Could we of won the 1970 World Cup on 16:17 - Jun 5 with 7878 views

HamtuneR

What did you 'of ' for breakfast today?

Could we of won the 1970 World Cup on 16:18 - Jun 5 with 7869 views

beeeater

They were good , but I've watched that match recently and Astle and Ball miss absolute sitters . We are the better team during the first half and just wilt in the heat during the second . If you add George Best to that team or bring in Jennings instead of Bonetti against West Germany I think it would of been us against Brazil in the final.

[Post edited 5 Jun 2014 16:21]

Could we of won the 1970 World Cup on 16:18 - Jun 5 with 7866 views

blacky200

This is a bit before my time but imagine some of the players over the years who could of played in a UK team. Best, Gemill, Strachan, Giggs, Pat Jennings, Liam Brady, Dalglish, Ian Rush, Souness. So many. I think a UK side would of won more World Cups. And to think we could also have Bale in the team now.

Could we of won the 1970 World Cup on 16:23 - Jun 5 with 7843 views

SonofNorfolt

Could we of won the 1970 World Cup on 16:18 - Jun 5 by beeeater
They were good , but I've watched that match recently and Astle and Ball miss absolute sitters . We are the better team during the first half and just wilt in the heat during the second . If you add George Best to that team or bring in Jennings instead of Bonetti against West Germany I think it would of been us against Brazil in the final. [Post edited 5 Jun 2014 16:21]

Not really sitters, but chances all the same.
Bonetti only played because Banks was injured, didn't you see his save from Pele in that game?

Could we of won the 1970 World Cup on 16:29 - Jun 5 with 7830 views

beeeater

Could we of won the 1970 World Cup on 16:23 - Jun 5 by SonofNorfolt
Not really sitters, but chances all the same. Bonetti only played because Banks was injured, didn't you see his save from Pele in that game?

Yep saw that , but I'm not saying Jennings was better than Banks . I'm saying Jennings would of been an excellent back up for Banks instead of Bonetti, to bring in for that match. And imagine Best coming on for Charlton, mind you Sir Alf would probably never of selected someone like that.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:36 - Jun 5 with 7821 views

HamtuneR

Banks missed the West Germany game due to food poisoning, not injury. It is suspected that he was nobbled by a Brazil supporting chef, but never proven. We lost that match largely due to Bobby Charlton being substituted in the second half. He had Beckenbauer in his pocket up to then. Had he stayed on the pitch it is unlikely that Beckenbauer would have ventured forward to a shooting position, as he did to score their first goal.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:40 - Jun 5 with 7812 views

beeeater

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:36 - Jun 5 by HamtuneR

Which Jennings would have saved . Plus he'd never have let the second loop over he's head like Bonetti did.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:46 - Jun 5 with 7793 views

Discodroid

i think we could have won the '82 world cup as well if keegan and brooking hadnt have played half a game in the tournament.
didnt lose a game, inc against eventual unlucky semi finalists france, who probably had their greatest ever midfield tigana/giresse/platini, and the germans who went on to the final..

imho the strongest squad outside of '66 and '70.

i think it would tear this current england squad a new one.

regis was injured.

England[edit]
Head coach: Ron Greenwood
No. Pos. Player DoB/Age Caps Club
1 GK Ray Clemence 5 August 1948 (aged 33) 59 England Tottenham Hotspur
2 DF Viv Anderson 29 August 1956 (aged 25) 10 England Nottingham Forest
3 MF Trevor Brooking 2 October 1948 (aged 33) 46 England West Ham United
4 DF Terry Butcher 28 December 1958 (aged 23) 4 England Ipswich Town
5 MF Steve Coppell 9 July 1955 (aged 26) 36 England Manchester United
6 DF Steve Foster 24 September 1957 (aged 24) 2 England Brighton and Hove Albion
7 FW Kevin Keegan 14 February 1951 (aged 31) 62 England Southampton
8 FW Trevor Francis 19 April 1954 (aged 28) 27 England Manchester City
9 MF Glenn Hoddle 27 October 1957 (aged 24) 11 England Tottenham Hotspur
10 MF Terry McDermott 8 December 1951 (aged 30) 25 England Liverpool
11 FW Paul Mariner 22 May 1953 (aged 29) 21 England Ipswich Town
12 DF Mick Mills (c) 4 January 1949 (aged 33) 37 England Ipswich Town
13 GK Joe Corrigan 18 November 1948 (aged 33) 9 England Manchester City
14 DF Phil Neal 20 February 1951 (aged 31) 37 England Liverpool
15 MF Graham Rix 23 October 1957 (aged 24) 8 England Arsenal
16 MF Bryan Robson 11 January 1957 (aged 25) 19 England Manchester United
17 DF Kenny Sansom 26 September 1958 (aged 23) 23 England Arsenal
18 DF Phil Thompson 21 January 1954 (aged 28) 35 England Liverpool
19 MF Ray Wilkins 14 September 1956 (aged 25) 47 England Manchester United
20 FW Peter Withe 30 August 1951 (aged 30) 6 England Aston Villa
21 FW Tony Woodcock 6 December 1955 (aged 26) 22 West Germany FC KÃ¶ln
22 GK Peter Shilton 18 September 1949 (aged 32) 37 England Nottingham Forest

[Post edited 5 Jun 2014 16:47]

" I guess in four or five years, the new generation's music will be .. electronics, tapes. I can kind of envision .. maybe one person .. with a lot of machines, tapes, and electronics setups, singin or speaking .. and using machines " James Douglas Morrison | 1969

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:55 - Jun 5 with 7760 views

beeeater

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:46 - Jun 5 by Discodroid

[Post edited 5 Jun 2014 16:47]

Good squad but imagine if you could take out Graham Rix, Phil Thompson, Terry McDermott and Paul Mariner . Then replace with Graeme Souness, Alan Hansen, Gordon Strachan and Kenny Dalglish .

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:56 - Jun 5 with 7757 views

ElHoop

I think that our 'next best' chance of winning was 1934 when we didn't even enter. We were probably the best team in the world as we drew in Italy (they won it in 1934) before the world cup and we then beat them over here afterwards.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:56 - Jun 5 with 7757 views

Spaghetti_Hoops

I think our 1970 squad were the best set of players we have ever sent to a World Cup. Certainly better than the 1966 team who weren't expected to get further than the Q-Fs. The team gained great confidence and improved as players after winning the WC.

Shame the tournament was in Mexico. Shame we ran into one of the greatest teams ever. Shame we therefore played W.Germany in searing heat, at midday, at 6000ft altitude, went off too fast, wilted and conceded an equaliser. Shame Banks was unavailable. Same old story really.

At the time I would have preferred to stick with the team we had rather than slotting in individuals from other home countries, with the exception of George Best who was a genius.

But we would have still lost to that Brazil team in those conditions.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 17:01 - Jun 5 with 7743 views

beeeater

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:56 - Jun 5 by Spaghetti_Hoops

Maybe so, and we will never see what a GB team can do after September . But I wouldn't mind Bale in the current England team.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 17:15 - Jun 5 with 7720 views

barbicanranger

I spent a year studying in mexico and on more than one occasion I had people mention that England side to me: One night was at the Azteca during a Copa Libertadores game there were some 50-60 year-olds next to me who I got chatting to, they said that it was the best side they ever saw play. Then when I visited Guadalajara a cabby was telling me that he went to the group game when England played Brazil in the city in 1970 and England were so unlucky not to win.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 17:24 - Jun 5 with 7704 views

Toast_R

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 16:56 - Jun 5 by Spaghetti_Hoops

I can't really agree with that, the only reason England never made it to that final was a combination of Alf Ramsey's ridiculous decision to remove Bobby Charlton, setting free Beckenbauer to do what he liked and Bonetti being total dogs*t for all their goals.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 17:24 - Jun 5 with 7704 views

batmanhoop

the 1970 squad were rated higher than the 1966 winning team. Whatever, they done the country proud, sadly not many others have

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 21:29 - Jun 5 with 7601 views

IrishR

But the UK should not be a team, people want their own identities and have there own nationalities much like the Irish should play with Ireland and English play with English. If it were to become one then I sense the same passion would not be there and if the UK team were to win something it would not feel as special as winning it as England for example. A proud Welshman would not like to play for the UK and the same goes for all the other countries.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 21:41 - Jun 5 with 7586 views

beeeater

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 21:29 - Jun 5 by IrishR

I agree and get what your saying. Funny though I don't mind it so much in other sports. It was great to see Britain doing so well in the last Olympics.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 22:11 - Jun 5 with 7559 views

CamberleyR

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 17:24 - Jun 5 by Toast_R
I can't really agree with that, the only reason England never made it to that final was a combination of Alf Ramsey's ridiculous decision to remove Bobby Charlton, setting free Beckenbauer to do what he liked and Bonetti being total dogs*t for all their goals.

There were several reasons England never made it to the final.

1. England being drawn in the same group as Brazil. Something dodgy about this that the reigning world champions (who you would think would be a top seed) were drawn in the same group as the number 1 team in the world. Mexico for example had the Soviet Union, Belgium and El Salvador. Had we been the top seed in any of the other groups we would have met Brazil in the final.
2. Gordon Banks, undisputably the top goalie in the world at the time, going down with food poisoning the night before the West Germany game. Again something very fishy here as Banks himself has said that all the team ate the same food at the same time yet he was the only one affected.
3. Sir Alf's inability to get to grips with the relatively recent innovation of substitutions. People always talk about the Bobby Charlton substitution but most would think Colin Bell an eight years younger version of BC a reasonable like for like sub although Bell probably didn't have the defensive attributes that Charlton had. IMO more importantly was the inablity of Ramsey to replace one of the full backs, probably Terry Cooper who was absolutely out on his feet in extra time through tearing up and down the wing (as had Keith Newton the other full back) and who was turned inside out by Lohr to get the cross in which was headed across goal for Muller to hook in.

An excellent book on the 1970 tournament written from England's perspective is "Back Home" by Jeff Dawson. Thoroughly recommended.

Poll:

Which is the worst QPR team?

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 22:38 - Jun 5 with 7527 views

Monahoop

on 01:00 - Jan 1 by

Between 1974 and 1978 England were dire. No fault of the talented pool of players which included the likes of Bowles, Francis,and Thomas, but the fault of that megalomaniac fool of a manager, Don Revie. He found managing an international side totally different to managing his 'baby' Leeds Utd. He lost the respect of a lot of the England players and its been said that some had no respect for him in the first place, judging by the reputation he carried with him from Leeds.

There aint half been some clever bastards.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 22:47 - Jun 5 with 7510 views

MrSheen

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 22:11 - Jun 5 by CamberleyR

Being drawn in the same group as Brazil was the one way we could guarantee we wouldn't meet them again until the final. Unfortunately, we lost to the team who lost to the team who lost to Brazil in the end.

As for the OP's argument about a British team, as a fellow Ginner I dread to think how Bremner and Jimmy Johnston would have suffered in a noon kick-off in the Aztec Stadium. One of my strongest impressions of the 1970 and 1986 world cups was how tiny the shadows were, right under the players' feet.

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 00:16 - Jun 6 with 7474 views

Spaghetti_Hoops

[Post edited 6 Jun 2014 0:28]

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 00:33 - Jun 6 with 7463 views

Spaghetti_Hoops

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 17:24 - Jun 5 by Toast_R
I can't really agree with that, the only reason England never made it to that final was a combination of Alf Ramsey's ridiculous decision to remove Bobby Charlton, setting free Beckenbauer to do what he liked and Bonetti being total dogs*t for all their goals.

If you watch this video after the first German goal there is no evidence of Bonetti letting the side down. On the contrary he pulls off some good saves -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8670763.stm

Bobby Charlton was knackered and the substitution for Colin Bell made a lot of sense. Beckenbauer scored before Charlton went off. Charlton later appeared on a BBC documentary agreeing that the substitution did not change the game.

Whatever the media and popular view of it the key to us losing to W.Germany was running out of steam in the conditions. The same happened in Japan/Korea and will happen in Brazil in the later stages

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 02:50 - Jun 6 with 7427 views

SonofNorfolt

George Best is one of the greatest footballers ever, and would walk, or at least drop his shoulder into, any team then,and when at the top of his game, even now.
Jennings, great keeper.
Then the Scots, Celtic's '67 EC triumph through to Rangers' '72 CWC win. This is apart from Bremner, Lorimer, Mackay up until Souness, Dalglish, and even and especially John Robertson.
Wales more latterly having players like the fantastic Ian Rush, a younger Giggs, Neville Southall in '85.
The Irish too, finally galvanised by Jack Charlton after the eras of the brilliant Giles and Brady.

Now what have the all these nations between them as a class act, Gareth Bale.

Not that England have too much more.

Perhaps Phil Neville can make a comeback?

Could we have won the 1970 World Cup on 08:41 - Jun 6 with 2158 views

doogi55

i think we came through a tough group and it took it out the team.
but the best we could have done would have been runners up
i think that brazil team was special but the england team was
the best england side i have ever seen.

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