| What has happened to football? 13:42 - Feb 17 with 4281 views | scottishjack |
First off, this isn't a pop at Garry Monk, the club, or anyone in particular... but when did everything change?
As soon as I saw the line up yesterday, I accepted that we were bowing out of the FA cup, the fact that the lads selected played fairly well eased a bit of the gloom, and in fairness, we could just as easily lost 3-1 at Goodison with our strongest line up.
It was the 5th round of the cup, a chance to reach the 1/4 finals, and we rested players because making sure we finish 17th or higher in the league is far more important? Sorry, but not in my eyes. It isn't just us, many fans at other clubs accept that going out of the cup isn't the end of the world as long as they stay in the Prem? It's all upside down.
I appreciate what being in the Premier league has done for us financially, our board have been very wise with that money, meaning we have new training facilities and a healthy club, our profile in the world of footie has rocketed, it's all good, but when finishing outside the bottom 3, season after season is our ambition, then I'm sorry, but what's the point? |  | | |  |
| What has happened to football? on 20:58 - Feb 17 with 899 views | swancity |
A very interesting question
When a club like ours goes to everton for a fa cup 5th round tie and field what was essentially a back up eleven, you do wonder what it's all about.
I understand the need to avoid injury and suspension but it's something that I detest about the modern game. Over protected and under used players that is. And a casual approach to major trophies, a lack of interest in winning games as long as no-one is injured. There must be more to football. We lost a big game on Sunday and yet no one really could care less? That's crazy.
And yet the players are fitter, stronger and quicker than they were.
It's all about money now, money driven and orientated but not really for the better, at least not for clubs like Swansea City. |  |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| What has happened to football? on 20:59 - Feb 17 with 899 views | Shaky |
| What has happened to football? on 20:32 - Feb 17 by Dr_Winston |
Says the man positively spitting with rage and bitterness since Laudrup got the chop.
Get over it. Seriously. |
I think it's great that you can say stuff like that without a trace of self-irony or shame, following your non-stop backbiting of Laudrup since I have followed this forum over the past 12 months or so.
You've simply got to have that degree of shamelessness if you want to engage in the scale of hypocrisy you dish out. |  |
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| What has happened to football? on 21:02 - Feb 17 with 894 views | Dr_Winston |
| What has happened to football? on 20:55 - Feb 17 by Spratty |
One mans rage and bitterness is another's decency and support when the truth is rewritten
For better or worse ML is no longer a part of our club. Unfortunately it was not handled professionally which has reflected negatively on our club and the way it is perceived. This slagging off of a decent person who achieved so much for the club is totally classless.
It took me over 6 hours to drive to Stoke where I never stopped cheering on our boys. At the end of the game I particularly went to the corner to cheer off the team which included our new manager. If I am bitter perhaps we could do with a lot more bitter supporters.
If you don't like the truth put me on ignore. But do not I repeat do not slag off our team.
Believe me if I hit rage and bitterness you will know it. |
Uhuh.
Frankly I'm amazed that anyone still thinks that Laudrup is 100% honourable after the fun and games we had with Bayram last summer, but I guess some people are a bit more trusting than others. Meanwhile, I'll continue to be a teensy bit critical of the guy who did bloody well for seven months, then mostly through his own stubborness proceeded to not do bloody well for the next twelve.
Paint it whichever way you want to, but a manager who leaves behind first reserves as piss poor as Vasquez, Tiendalli or Lamah can't escape criticism, no matter how much you and your Danish buddies wish to pin all the blame on Huw Jenkins. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| What has happened to football? on 21:03 - Feb 17 with 892 views | Dr_Winston |
| What has happened to football? on 20:59 - Feb 17 by Shaky |
I think it's great that you can say stuff like that without a trace of self-irony or shame, following your non-stop backbiting of Laudrup since I have followed this forum over the past 12 months or so.
You've simply got to have that degree of shamelessness if you want to engage in the scale of hypocrisy you dish out. |
Thanks Dimi. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| What has happened to football? on 21:07 - Feb 17 with 882 views | Shaky |
| What has happened to football? on 21:03 - Feb 17 by Dr_Winston |
Thanks Dimi. |
Predictable and wrong, as usual. | |
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| What has happened to football? on 21:18 - Feb 17 with 865 views | max936 |
I agree to a point, but the FA cup can wait a few years for me, staying in the Prem means we'll have the money to keep growing, improving the team and the infrastructure, we're still a small club, but the longer we stay in the Prem the more chance there is of that changing, then runs in the cup will become far easy for us to commit to, hopefully.
That said, if it wasn't for the Europa tie this week, we would have seen a stronger team yesterday, but fair play to lads that did play, they did very well for an hour until the mistake and the pen straight after, up until then we were still in with a hell of a chance. |  |
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| What has happened to football? on 21:26 - Feb 17 with 846 views | AngelRangelQS |
So would anyone have swapped places with Wigan last season then?
Nice day out at the FA Cup final and championship football to look forward to or another year in the Premiership?
Maybe we could have had both but as soon as we became stuck in a relegation scrap, that changed. |  | | |
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| What has happened to football? on 21:35 - Feb 17 with 822 views | AngelRangelQS |
| What has happened to football? on 20:58 - Feb 17 by swancity |
A very interesting question
When a club like ours goes to everton for a fa cup 5th round tie and field what was essentially a back up eleven, you do wonder what it's all about.
I understand the need to avoid injury and suspension but it's something that I detest about the modern game. Over protected and under used players that is. And a casual approach to major trophies, a lack of interest in winning games as long as no-one is injured. There must be more to football. We lost a big game on Sunday and yet no one really could care less? That's crazy.
And yet the players are fitter, stronger and quicker than they were.
It's all about money now, money driven and orientated but not really for the better, at least not for clubs like Swansea City. |
If they're over protected it's because presumably there are fitness experts saying that they need to be rested, should only play x amount of minutes etc.
The game has changed and unless players are at 100%, they will struggle. It's not a case of these poor footballers, don't know what tired means, etc. They're professional athletes and rest and recuperation is as important as training and diet.
We'd all love us to compete in all competitions but we haven't done this for years. I remember similar outrage when we lost to H&W in the fa cup and Watford in the LC with Martinez. Surely the league is our bread and butter, followed by the europa and then the fa cup | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 21:45 - Feb 17 with 806 views | the_oracle |
| What has happened to football? on 16:49 - Feb 17 by A_Fans_Dad |
So you would really be prepared for the club to lose £600-£1000 Million Pounds, with all the development, stability and improvement that that could bring, for the sake of getting Swansea's name on another piece of Silver?
Just suppose we did not win any of the other games in the FA cup leading up to the Final and at the same time went down to the Championship again, do you think we would stand a better chance of winning a Cup next year and the years after that with Championship Players or with Premiership Players?
So you asked "why do the Fans go?", isn't it also about the "Football", each game is a Success or Failure in itself, plus there is the level that the game is played at, do you prefer watching top class players? |
So stability is what we go to watch the team for? I cannot ever recall speaking to anyone who said "wow, what a great season we are really stable this year".
Players want to win things. Think how often we hear that players wont join clubs that are not in the champions league. Many ex top players say how much they regret never winning the cup.We could get to the stage where only the top six will compete for cups along with lower league sides hoping for a one off.big payday. What ambitious player wants to join a club whose only aim is to survive?
If survival is the be all then in the league the natural extension is to have two teams. One to play the top eight sides where we expect to lose and then keep the strongest 11 for the games against the teams around us. eg On Sunday put out the second string,( as we did against Everton), for the Liverpool game and then a full strength team against Palace. This will give us the optimum chance to survive.
I don't go to watch world class players from other teams. if I wanted to watch Suarez, Mata etc I would get a season for Liverpool Man U and so on. I go to see my team beat the opposition not to drool over their players.
I want my team to be successful. If success is measured by finishing 17th then I am not interested. The club would merely exist to provide wages and dividends for players and board. It would not exist for the fans, the one group who do not benefit financially from finishing 17th. Our board of fans seem to have forgotten that winning trophies is the reason for existence. | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 21:58 - Feb 17 with 797 views | bermudajack |
| What has happened to football? on 21:35 - Feb 17 by AngelRangelQS |
If they're over protected it's because presumably there are fitness experts saying that they need to be rested, should only play x amount of minutes etc.
The game has changed and unless players are at 100%, they will struggle. It's not a case of these poor footballers, don't know what tired means, etc. They're professional athletes and rest and recuperation is as important as training and diet.
We'd all love us to compete in all competitions but we haven't done this for years. I remember similar outrage when we lost to H&W in the fa cup and Watford in the LC with Martinez. Surely the league is our bread and butter, followed by the europa and then the fa cup |
To be honest there's some great posts on this subject, I've actually enjoyed reading differing views for a change without any personal abuse... My views are similar of that to many others... Survival in the Premier League will NEVER equate to the success of a major cup win.
And would I swap places with Wigan? You bet your ass I would... I loved this club long, long before the Premiership came into existence... Whilst the money has made untold changes to our club, the people that benefit the most from all of this extra cash are the players and agents.
Is the Liberty a much improved place to visit since promotion to the PL? Will we ever challenge the top 6 in this league? The answer to both are NO
Winning a cup is the best we can ever hope for.
Personally I will never celebrate survival unless it's a last day escape like Hull. We should have gone for it on Sunday, Everton were there for the taking, why rest Vorm? When does a keeper need a rest FFS ? A big missed opportunity in my book... |  |
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| What has happened to football? on 22:13 - Feb 17 with 771 views | Spratty |
| What has happened to football? on 21:58 - Feb 17 by bermudajack |
To be honest there's some great posts on this subject, I've actually enjoyed reading differing views for a change without any personal abuse... My views are similar of that to many others... Survival in the Premier League will NEVER equate to the success of a major cup win.
And would I swap places with Wigan? You bet your ass I would... I loved this club long, long before the Premiership came into existence... Whilst the money has made untold changes to our club, the people that benefit the most from all of this extra cash are the players and agents.
Is the Liberty a much improved place to visit since promotion to the PL? Will we ever challenge the top 6 in this league? The answer to both are NO
Winning a cup is the best we can ever hope for.
Personally I will never celebrate survival unless it's a last day escape like Hull. We should have gone for it on Sunday, Everton were there for the taking, why rest Vorm? When does a keeper need a rest FFS ? A big missed opportunity in my book... |
Great post (and the one before it)
Football is about passion the highs and the lows. It takes us from the ordinary to the extraordinary.
The players and supporters love the thrill of cups
Begone you bean counters and learn to soar above the clouds
To live in fear of failure is not to live at all [Post edited 17 Feb 2014 22:17]
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| What has happened to football? on 22:16 - Feb 17 with 765 views | Swanseajill |
Two seasons in the premier league does not give us security.
Major trophys are a bonus, and comes after reaching stability for a club that has had very little of that commodity in our recent history. |  | | |
| What has happened to football? on 22:27 - Feb 17 with 750 views | AngelRangelQS |
| What has happened to football? on 21:58 - Feb 17 by bermudajack |
To be honest there's some great posts on this subject, I've actually enjoyed reading differing views for a change without any personal abuse... My views are similar of that to many others... Survival in the Premier League will NEVER equate to the success of a major cup win.
And would I swap places with Wigan? You bet your ass I would... I loved this club long, long before the Premiership came into existence... Whilst the money has made untold changes to our club, the people that benefit the most from all of this extra cash are the players and agents.
Is the Liberty a much improved place to visit since promotion to the PL? Will we ever challenge the top 6 in this league? The answer to both are NO
Winning a cup is the best we can ever hope for.
Personally I will never celebrate survival unless it's a last day escape like Hull. We should have gone for it on Sunday, Everton were there for the taking, why rest Vorm? When does a keeper need a rest FFS ? A big missed opportunity in my book... |
No it's a fair point and in terms of a Saturday afternoons fun and games, I don't really mind watching us play in the premier league or league two to be quite honest.
For me the premiership isn't about us signing good players or us watching big teams - that's all bollocks. For me, it's the club getting money it never would have got previously - money that it has spent on top class training facilities and money it will now hopefully spend on increasing the capacity of the liberty.
An FA cup win would be amazing but I would rather us milk the premiership money for another few seasons yet before we gamble too much | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 22:34 - Feb 17 with 745 views | swancity |
| What has happened to football? on 22:16 - Feb 17 by Swanseajill |
Two seasons in the premier league does not give us security.
Major trophys are a bonus, and comes after reaching stability for a club that has had very little of that commodity in our recent history. |
It's an interesting subject but like many others you seem to equate losing cup ties to guaranteed stability ie premier league survival
Staying in the premier league for 5, 8, 10 or 15 seasons would be nice. But look at Portsmouth, Coventry, Wimbledon and Wigan athletic, all clubs who stayed in the premier league for quite some time but who also won a major trophy. Wigan apart those clubs are now a shambles, in complete disarray.
We could and should be always looking to field a very strong team in cup ties. I felt we handed the game on a plate to everton before it had even started with a nice side dish of a gifted goal and a tasty desert of a penalty kick?
I still look back with fondness at the day out at wembley when we beat Huddersfield and the day we beat Carlisle at cardiff. The Bradford day was one to remember too. It's theses memories which mean everything, without them you may as well just jack it all in so to speak. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| What has happened to football? on 22:41 - Feb 17 with 721 views | Rancid |
We forget how good we've had it down here for the last decade.Every season has been a success and it's still going on when you look at who we're playing on Thursday and how we got there.
We're a funny bunch in Swansea but it's who we are and wouldn't change it for any other club or pastime. |  | | |
| What has happened to football? on 22:58 - Feb 17 with 705 views | Plasticman |
| What has happened to football? on 20:32 - Feb 17 by Dr_Winston |
Says the man positively spitting with rage and bitterness since Laudrup got the chop.
Get over it. Seriously. |
Truth be told, you sound like the bitter one here. Never miss a chance to throw some random unsurported mud. |  |
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| What has happened to football? on 23:00 - Feb 17 with 699 views | monmouth |
| What has happened to football? on 22:41 - Feb 17 by Rancid |
We forget how good we've had it down here for the last decade.Every season has been a success and it's still going on when you look at who we're playing on Thursday and how we got there.
We're a funny bunch in Swansea but it's who we are and wouldn't change it for any other club or pastime. |
Thursday could be the defining memory of this season if the liberty can rock again. Or better still the Thursday after, but I won't be there sadly.
Plus of course the scum demolition on an easy aggregate in what might be the only ever pair of premier derbies.
These are great days. |  |
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| What has happened to football? on 23:12 - Feb 17 with 678 views | Rancid |
| What has happened to football? on 22:58 - Feb 17 by Plasticman |
Truth be told, you sound like the bitter one here. Never miss a chance to throw some random unsurported mud. |
Look mate,Laudrup's gone because we were under serious threat of relegation under him.I know how proud you Danes are and how proud you are of Laudrup and understandably so because he's a footballing legend.We are like it with John Charles and Ivor Allchurch.Dr.Winston is getting pelters from you Danish lads because he could see what was happening and had the balls to post it.Most of us could see it also and I include you in that too as you spent the last month of his tenure defending him.I really hope you carry on following us Swans as you're a good read on here but footballs a cruel business and unfortunately on this occasion our club had to get rid of one of Denmarks favourite sons and a hero of yours.Hope that didn't sound patronizing as it honestly wasn't meant to be. | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 23:24 - Feb 17 with 657 views | Rancid |
| What has happened to football? on 23:00 - Feb 17 by monmouth |
Thursday could be the defining memory of this season if the liberty can rock again. Or better still the Thursday after, but I won't be there sadly.
Plus of course the scum demolition on an easy aggregate in what might be the only ever pair of premier derbies.
These are great days. |
Without doubt mate.Just PL survival is a success for us when we think realistically.But to beat Napoli at home and like you say the way we demolished the Scum then it's a great season once again. | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 00:03 - Feb 18 with 643 views | jeza739 |
I really can't understand anyone who would happily win a cup and get relegated! Please put all the fairytales and rose tinted glasses away, relegation could mean financial disaster, remember we have just had plans for a ground extension approved, which will go a long way to helping us maintain our premiership future with all the extra revenue etc. We can forget any extension if we go down, plus the millions it would cost us in lost tv revenue etc. What if we went into free fall again, for one lousy day out at Wembley? No thank you very much!!! And before anyone suggests anything too the contrary yes I loved every minute of Wembley last year, but never at the expense of prem survival. Unfortunately like it or not being in the prem is everything for us, just like being in the champs lge is everything to the elite clubs
Southampton don't really have an excuse for the weak team they fielded, they are secure in the lge and don't have euro game in midweek.
We may not get into Europe via English system (we can. No longer get there via Wales route) for another 100 years so yes, this year Europa cup is far more important than the FA cup which we are DEFINATELY in next year, which with hopefully a better lge position (points wise anyway) and probably no European comps we can perhaps have a crack at the FA cup (as we did league cup last year).
I was surprised by the selection against a full strength Everton side (apart fm the keeper) but the team selected epitomised the new team spirit, we learned that Bartley definitely has a future with us and one or two definitely don't! We only lost due too individual mistakes by players who showed why they are not first choice!
The selection was very brave by GM considering his personal circs and totally justified | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 00:28 - Feb 18 with 628 views | SCB1985 |
| What has happened to football? on 00:03 - Feb 18 by jeza739 |
I really can't understand anyone who would happily win a cup and get relegated! Please put all the fairytales and rose tinted glasses away, relegation could mean financial disaster, remember we have just had plans for a ground extension approved, which will go a long way to helping us maintain our premiership future with all the extra revenue etc. We can forget any extension if we go down, plus the millions it would cost us in lost tv revenue etc. What if we went into free fall again, for one lousy day out at Wembley? No thank you very much!!! And before anyone suggests anything too the contrary yes I loved every minute of Wembley last year, but never at the expense of prem survival. Unfortunately like it or not being in the prem is everything for us, just like being in the champs lge is everything to the elite clubs
Southampton don't really have an excuse for the weak team they fielded, they are secure in the lge and don't have euro game in midweek.
We may not get into Europe via English system (we can. No longer get there via Wales route) for another 100 years so yes, this year Europa cup is far more important than the FA cup which we are DEFINATELY in next year, which with hopefully a better lge position (points wise anyway) and probably no European comps we can perhaps have a crack at the FA cup (as we did league cup last year).
I was surprised by the selection against a full strength Everton side (apart fm the keeper) but the team selected epitomised the new team spirit, we learned that Bartley definitely has a future with us and one or two definitely don't! We only lost due too individual mistakes by players who showed why they are not first choice!
The selection was very brave by GM considering his personal circs and totally justified |
Premier league has to be where we stay and nothing should stand in the way. But the fa cup loss is frustrating because with the calibre of teams left, could of meant us getting far. However I do feel relieved that we out. | |
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| What has happened to football? on 00:30 - Feb 18 with 628 views | GeneralJack |
| What has happened to football? on 14:37 - Feb 17 by the_oracle |
I've been asking myself the same question for some time.
Posts on putting out a weakened side for the cup game against Everton (and Bolton a few years back) seem to have split the posters on this message board.
Many seem to have bought into the idea that premier league survival is the be all and end all. Survival in the premier league is used to the detriment of the cup competitions. Put out a weakened side to preserve our status in the top division. Others talk about using PL money for building for the future, but does anyone really think we can realistically challenge Man U City, Chelsea etc in the long term?
Does the club exist for the fans or does the club exist solely to use the PL money provide income for players, staff and board? Is it right that the team is merely there for survival, and is it enough for the supporters to watch Chelsea Arsenal Man City etc each week to forgo success?
Why does the fan go? Is it for success? If so then realistically the FA cup and League cup are the two opportunities for success, as winning the league is not a viable option. If the club is interested in success then shouldn’t the side put out by the manager be the one that has the highest chance of winning? Fans eat up success, but without success will the fan keep going back to watch a club whose only ambition is to stay up?
Some call me a romantic in that I dream of my team winning things. Clubs are not remembered for finishing 15 16 or 17 in the premiership .We all know people in Swansea who have supported Man U Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool etc because they like success. How many locals support teams like Notts County or Carlisle? The reason for support is success!
Those of us old enough will remember Swindon (at the Vetch it was a terribly wet day and I think a 1-1 draw with Grimsby and I remember that because of the cup shock!) and Don Rodgers beating Arsenal in the league cup, Coventry Wimbledon and more recently Wigan winning the fa cup. If I say 1927 we all know what that means .How many remember a 0-0 draw on a wet Tuesday at any ground mid-season? Will we be remembering this week’s 1-1 at Stoke in 30 years’ time or the win over Man U in the third round? We all remember cup wins over West Ham, Sheffield, the two legs against Chelsea and so on.
Birmingham fans after the league cup win a few years ago said “A day, like no other in the club’s history, to treasure.” The websites say they would not have swapped the cup win for survival. The same applies to many Wigan fans after last season’s win.
Other days to remember apart from that day in 2003 include cup finals at Wembley and Cardiff, the Forest playoff semi and Wembley (both knock out games like the cups don’t forget). Most games in the collective memory are the big ones, the one offs.
So do we just want survival, the annual dog fight against relegation or do we want that moment that will live in footballs memory forever? Or is it simply enough to have a future of financial stability for the club. And who really benefits from that, the fan, or the player earning 40 k a week?
Danny Blanchflower said “that the game must be about the glory”. For fans, cup runs are a day out and the possibility of a lifetime of memories. For footballers, it does not get more iconic that to win a cup final. Folklore is made in Cups. The FA Cup is part of the fabric of English life.
I’d take a cup win anytime over 10 seasons of survival. |
An excellent post, but I also think the decision to field such a weakened side came more from the board than GM, and that's really worrying.
Such a lack of bravery after an historic victory against Man Utd previously. | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 00:36 - Feb 18 with 622 views | jeza739 |
We have no grounds too suggest it was the boards selection. It was GM selection unless PROVED otherwise and a wise one, as per my previous post | | | |
| What has happened to football? on 01:00 - Feb 18 with 608 views | scottishjack |
| What has happened to football? on 00:36 - Feb 18 by jeza739 |
We have no grounds too suggest it was the boards selection. It was GM selection unless PROVED otherwise and a wise one, as per my previous post |
Absolutely, and the boys that Garry selected done well for the majority of the match. I'm looking forward to the Napoli game, looking forward to the rest of the season, I just feel that the Everton match was an opportunity as well.
My OP was probably more about lamenting the demise of the FA Cup as much as anything else. The Premier League and the income is great for the club, good for the City, it just leaves me a bit cold now and then... This weekend was indirectly one of those occasions. | | | |
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