| New boys 08:57 - Nov 28 with 3943 views | dutch |
Understandably feeling better today than have for a long time, which may well colour what I am about to write. But were the summer signings really as bad as we've all been saying?
Nardi is definitely an upgrade on last season.
Saito is a lovely little player full of effort and guile
Varane has started to come into his own as a commanding midfielder
Morrison looks like a very decent centre half to me.
Dembele, injured hard to tell
Santos. Not very good.
Madsen - Mixed bag obvious talent but not great application
Celar is of course the tough one to call. Before last night useless, now???
Four or five positives out of that lot is not a bad total. Maybe our league position isn't just down to bad signings, maybe it does take time to gel.
[Post edited 28 Nov 9:59]
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| New boys on 09:40 - Nov 28 with 3203 views | silverbirch |
I have to admit, I was wanting Celar subbed long before his second goal. Thought Lloyd would help us defend higher up and give them something to worry about.
Let’s see what Celar can do now… | | | |
| New boys on 09:45 - Nov 28 with 3145 views | francisbowles |
| New boys on 09:40 - Nov 28 by silverbirch |
I have to admit, I was wanting Celar subbed long before his second goal. Thought Lloyd would help us defend higher up and give them something to worry about.
Let’s see what Celar can do now… |
That would have been difficult as he wasn't on the bench. 'Training injury'. | | | |
| New boys on 09:47 - Nov 28 with 3130 views | enfieldargh |
Madson? |  |
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| New boys on 09:56 - Nov 28 with 3039 views | daveB |
for me it's not about the quality of the player it's the failure to put a team/squad together. Squad wise we have 1 option up front at the moment and he's not really suited to this game model of one up front. Madsen also doesn't really fit into how the team want to play. We've not brought in midfield players who can keep the ball and move us up the pitch and we have no depth to the squad. That's the problem with the summer signings, individually they all have good points to their games.
It just feels to me that the only way we can win games is men behind the ball, keeper has a stormer and we nick the first goal somehow, that's how it was last season and it's not progressed.
Last nights performance was pretty similar to Derby and Blackburn even Middlesbrough but we got the first goal which we didn't in those games and had something to hold onto |  | | |
| New boys on 09:56 - Nov 28 with 3034 views | francisbowles |
I agree Dutch individually they are good players.
As well as the injuries hitting us hard, the main problem has been a lack of Championship experience. Too many players, at one time, having to adapt to a different country as well as a new club and style of football. Celar, Madsen and even Santos may come good. They have all shown glimpses of good play. | | | |
| New boys on 10:00 - Nov 28 with 3007 views | UtterlyButters |
I was thinking along the same lines pre-Cardiff actually.
Madsen arguably had his best game on Saturday, he's clearly got something about him but is lacking the physicality, you'd assume at 6ft 4 its just a matter of time before that comes.
Varane looked shocking at first but is one of our best performers at the moment, feels like he could eventually become a player who can defend and progress the ball which is something I think we really need.
Dembele look unreal at the beginning of the season and I think Saito is a great player, seems perfect for the championship. Nardi looks like a top keeper. And I agree Morrison also looks very comfortable without much championship experience.
Celar we'll have to wait and see, I'm not sure we're playing to his strengths and Santos looks uncomfortable but again had moments when playing higher up for us.
Marti has had a huge task bedding in a lot of talent from very different backgrounds, we forget how young these lads are and how difficult moving to a new place can be. I think we might just have to be patient and hope the rot doesn't set in too badly. I think yesterday will really lift them as a group. | | | |
| New boys on 10:08 - Nov 28 with 2956 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| New boys on 09:56 - Nov 28 by daveB |
for me it's not about the quality of the player it's the failure to put a team/squad together. Squad wise we have 1 option up front at the moment and he's not really suited to this game model of one up front. Madsen also doesn't really fit into how the team want to play. We've not brought in midfield players who can keep the ball and move us up the pitch and we have no depth to the squad. That's the problem with the summer signings, individually they all have good points to their games.
It just feels to me that the only way we can win games is men behind the ball, keeper has a stormer and we nick the first goal somehow, that's how it was last season and it's not progressed.
Last nights performance was pretty similar to Derby and Blackburn even Middlesbrough but we got the first goal which we didn't in those games and had something to hold onto |
Absolutely this.
It's a squad thing, not an individual player thing. The full back depth always looked dicey and has been a huge problem for us over the last couple of months. Exactly the same with the strikers. Central midfield has been a huge problem, not because they're all terrible at football but we've rarely been able to field the right mixture of experience, industry and ball players.
We are definitely starting to see some bright spots though. Varane is progressing, Colback is nearly back so Varane, Field and Madsen won't be forced to play three games in 8 days over and over. Having both Frey and Celar available will enable us to have more than one plan. Morrison looks really comfortable. He and Clarke-Salter as a pairing is quite an exciting prospect... though I'm not sure we're quite ready to play without Cook.
Amazing what a win can do. I feel a million times more upbeat than this time yesterday. The next step is to get on a decent run. Six or seven points from the next nine would be literally transformational. |  | | |
| New boys on 10:11 - Nov 28 with 2927 views | terryb |
I would say that Nardi, Morrison, Varane & Saito have all shown that they are good signings that they do fit in with the team. Ashby is improving as he gets game time as well.
Of the others, Dembele started well, but his performances were declining prior to his injury. Madsen shows ability, but I've no idea what his role/position is. He does seem to becoming a little more involved in matches though. Thankfully!
Celar? His control & hold up play are lacking but he will be judged entirely on how many goals he scores. If it remains as two he will be a failure. If he reaches double figures the rest of his game will be forgiven!
Morgan may become a squad regular but let's not be reliant on a speedy progression. | | | |
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| New boys on 10:14 - Nov 28 with 2915 views | Rangersw12 |
It's not just the signings which the jury should all be out on all of them bar Nardi who has been excellent .
They left us with one LB after trying to force him out and then sent the back up on loan .
3 Right backs of which none are particularly great
No pace in the side
Only 2 recognised strikers
Two many 10's and players under 5'7
One win doesn't mask the fact the summer recruitment has been awful and if it wasn't for Nardi we could have been hammered by a very poor Cardiff team .
In Marti we trust but Nourry out | | | |
| New boys on 11:23 - Nov 28 with 2772 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| New boys on 10:14 - Nov 28 by Rangersw12 |
It's not just the signings which the jury should all be out on all of them bar Nardi who has been excellent .
They left us with one LB after trying to force him out and then sent the back up on loan .
3 Right backs of which none are particularly great
No pace in the side
Only 2 recognised strikers
Two many 10's and players under 5'7
One win doesn't mask the fact the summer recruitment has been awful and if it wasn't for Nardi we could have been hammered by a very poor Cardiff team .
In Marti we trust but Nourry out |
That’s the spirit 😐
Should’ve got a third striker.
Most of the new players are now settling in and showing improvement: without the horrendous injuries we’d be much higher in the league and the squad would look alright. |  | | |
| New boys on 11:38 - Nov 28 with 2681 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| New boys on 09:56 - Nov 28 by daveB |
for me it's not about the quality of the player it's the failure to put a team/squad together. Squad wise we have 1 option up front at the moment and he's not really suited to this game model of one up front. Madsen also doesn't really fit into how the team want to play. We've not brought in midfield players who can keep the ball and move us up the pitch and we have no depth to the squad. That's the problem with the summer signings, individually they all have good points to their games.
It just feels to me that the only way we can win games is men behind the ball, keeper has a stormer and we nick the first goal somehow, that's how it was last season and it's not progressed.
Last nights performance was pretty similar to Derby and Blackburn even Middlesbrough but we got the first goal which we didn't in those games and had something to hold onto |
Agree completely.
Plus we don't have defenders who're comfortable defending with a high line, so we end up either defending deep en-masse or with our back line deep and space between our lines.
Whatever model we recruited for it doesn't *seem* to allow Cifuentes' preferred style.
edit - spell check. [Post edited 28 Nov 11:38]
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| New boys on 11:56 - Nov 28 with 2561 views | silverbirch |
| New boys on 09:45 - Nov 28 by francisbowles |
That would have been difficult as he wasn't on the bench. 'Training injury'. |
Ah, thanks ! | | | |
| New boys on 12:05 - Nov 28 with 2512 views | Mr_Beef |
| New boys on 11:23 - Nov 28 by Ned_Kennedys |
That’s the spirit 😐
Should’ve got a third striker.
Most of the new players are now settling in and showing improvement: without the horrendous injuries we’d be much higher in the league and the squad would look alright. |
Teams get injuries though, and it's hardly a surprise that JCS and Colback haven't been available that often. The problem, as others have said, is the failure to build a decent squad which has left us with too many areas of the team that are lacking.
If you sign ten players in one window then we should be expecting better than this. |  | | |
| New boys on 12:11 - Nov 28 with 2476 views | Kiko |
Really chuffed with the win and happy for Celar.
However looking at it realistically an argument could be made that we were lucky not to lose last night. Nardi had a superb game and he's been a good signing.
Celar seems to be a pure finisher as other than his goals last night he offered nothing. Every time the ball went forward it came straight back which doesn't suit how we play. If we want him to succeed we need to adapt to his strengths and not expect him to battle for everything.
Morrison looks good, Varane is developing into a nice player and Dembele looked good at start of season, but had started to regress. Saito is a gem for me. Has skill, tries hard and seems to care.
I'm sorry, but can't agree with anyone that Madsen and Santos look decent. Both are awful. Santos i'd be willing to give time to develop/send out on loan, but Madsen is one of the biggest waste of spaces i've ever seen and shouldn't be near the starting lineup once other options are available.
I hope to be proven wrong, but ultimately I think Madsen, Celar and Santos will continue to struggle/wont succeed. | | | |
| New boys on 12:39 - Nov 28 with 2323 views | BrianWilson |
Celar offers nothing when we are defending backs against the wall, just chasing shadows. Was surprised Marti didn't sub him but then he went and scored that 2nd goal.
Two great finishes for him and hope he kicks on but I can't see him ever being suited to playing up front on his own. |  |
| "a diseased bunch of mofos if there ever was one, their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons."
- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys |
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| New boys on 12:58 - Nov 28 with 2216 views | kensalriser |
It was one win. We're poor and we've been poor all season, which is why we're second bottom. Even before the injuries ballooned we were passive and sluggish almost every game. Last two games have been a bit better, but last night's win, although deserved, was mostly because we got the breaks and Cardiff didn't .
We might improve, should improve, once the injured first teamers are back, but it's going to be a messy scrap. |  |
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| New boys on 13:47 - Nov 28 with 2036 views | Benny_the_Ball |
First off, one swallow doesn't make a spring. Whilst the win was welcome, let's not get carried away.
Next, the criticism of the summer recruitment isn't about individual players per se. It's more that the approach didn't fulfil requirements and therefore left Marti short in many areas. We didn't need another three number 10s. We need central midfielders, a genuine right back, and another striker. |  | | |
| New boys on 16:07 - Nov 28 with 1863 views | NorthantsHoop |
It's all about whether players like Celar, Madsen and Varane can kick on, big green shoots last night, especially for Celar scoring. Think Nardi has been excellent, I like Morrison he is growing game by game as fitness improves and Saito is a little diamond. Expect Watford will be a major test on Saturday as they are looking good this season. |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:21 - Nov 28 with 1774 views | stainrods_elbow |
| New boys on 09:56 - Nov 28 by daveB |
for me it's not about the quality of the player it's the failure to put a team/squad together. Squad wise we have 1 option up front at the moment and he's not really suited to this game model of one up front. Madsen also doesn't really fit into how the team want to play. We've not brought in midfield players who can keep the ball and move us up the pitch and we have no depth to the squad. That's the problem with the summer signings, individually they all have good points to their games.
It just feels to me that the only way we can win games is men behind the ball, keeper has a stormer and we nick the first goal somehow, that's how it was last season and it's not progressed.
Last nights performance was pretty similar to Derby and Blackburn even Middlesbrough but we got the first goal which we didn't in those games and had something to hold onto |
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| New boys on 16:22 - Nov 28 with 1762 views | stainrods_elbow |
| New boys on 11:38 - Nov 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
Agree completely.
Plus we don't have defenders who're comfortable defending with a high line, so we end up either defending deep en-masse or with our back line deep and space between our lines.
Whatever model we recruited for it doesn't *seem* to allow Cifuentes' preferred style.
edit - spell check. [Post edited 28 Nov 11:38]
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Thirded! As Marti himself said in the key interview I've posted from August (about his satisfaction with our summer recruitment), his job was/is to get the parts harmonised in a cohesive team. If, on that basis, he doesn't manage to do that, he's failing as a coach, I'm afraid. They're his players, or at least players we know he values and trusts (as he continually tells us he does) and had a big input on signing, as evidenced by the above interview and the recent summary of a 1-1 fan convo with my old friend Lee Hoos (unless whoever it was told me Marti might have been lying now wants to say Hoos is lying too).
The players, most of them, still have plenty to prove, but so does Marti in my book. Again, as he says himself, this is a new season, and last season's great escape, while a bit of sentimental credit in the bank, means nothing this year. In the words of John Sitton, good players want to be good players all the time, but so do good managers. | |
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| New boys on 16:22 - Nov 28 with 1792 views | Lblock |
Nardi is POTY for me so far, I suppose he would look good as he's under so much pressure and will stand out due to the number of shots we're facing.
Saito is great little player but the verb little is the issue. He get's knocked around far too easily, especially from 60th minute onwards.
Varane has been a bit of a curators egg.
I'm liking him more and more and he's looking a lot calmer and composed. I think his biggest issue that remains is he seems unsure where people will be for forward passes.
I see Ashby being mentioned.
For me he is a really poor player and I am totally shocked that the Geordies actually bought him for a £5mill package. That is mind boggling.
For the rest.....
Dembele I thought looked the real deal but I fear he's a bit of a DouDou and won't cut it at this level.
Celar is a dud.
Madsen is a pussy.
Santos looks overawed.
Morrison looks like one of those CB's who you never notice which is a cracking quality.
Can I chuck Anderson in here as well? He needs to be jettisoned in January as looks totally shot and is taking up a spot that someone with pace, energy and physique could take up.
One to add... Morgan - take a bow young man. He'll be a player this kid. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| New boys on 16:39 - Nov 28 with 1668 views | stainrods_elbow |
| New boys on 16:22 - Nov 28 by Lblock |
Nardi is POTY for me so far, I suppose he would look good as he's under so much pressure and will stand out due to the number of shots we're facing.
Saito is great little player but the verb little is the issue. He get's knocked around far too easily, especially from 60th minute onwards.
Varane has been a bit of a curators egg.
I'm liking him more and more and he's looking a lot calmer and composed. I think his biggest issue that remains is he seems unsure where people will be for forward passes.
I see Ashby being mentioned.
For me he is a really poor player and I am totally shocked that the Geordies actually bought him for a £5mill package. That is mind boggling.
For the rest.....
Dembele I thought looked the real deal but I fear he's a bit of a DouDou and won't cut it at this level.
Celar is a dud.
Madsen is a pussy.
Santos looks overawed.
Morrison looks like one of those CB's who you never notice which is a cracking quality.
Can I chuck Anderson in here as well? He needs to be jettisoned in January as looks totally shot and is taking up a spot that someone with pace, energy and physique could take up.
One to add... Morgan - take a bow young man. He'll be a player this kid. |
Ridiculously harsh.
Dembele is injured and needs a ruin of games, with good coaching, as he clearly has a lot of talent. It's down to Marti, as well as the player, to show that, so your fears are just that, and we can all fear anything.
If you still think Celar is a 'dud' after last night's goals, even if he still has to improve his all-round game, you're mean-spirited and/or not watching.
Madsen needs to be better and stronger, but I think he will imrpove and is showing some signs.
Ashby has been getting a lot of plaudits. | |
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| New boys on 18:50 - Nov 28 with 1476 views | NorthantsHoop |
| New boys on 16:39 - Nov 28 by stainrods_elbow |
Ridiculously harsh.
Dembele is injured and needs a ruin of games, with good coaching, as he clearly has a lot of talent. It's down to Marti, as well as the player, to show that, so your fears are just that, and we can all fear anything.
If you still think Celar is a 'dud' after last night's goals, even if he still has to improve his all-round game, you're mean-spirited and/or not watching.
Madsen needs to be better and stronger, but I think he will imrpove and is showing some signs.
Ashby has been getting a lot of plaudits. |
I thought Ashby had a decent game last night and also against Stoke he looked fine. | | | |
| New boys on 08:55 - Nov 29 with 1134 views | QPunkR |
| New boys on 16:22 - Nov 28 by Lblock |
Nardi is POTY for me so far, I suppose he would look good as he's under so much pressure and will stand out due to the number of shots we're facing.
Saito is great little player but the verb little is the issue. He get's knocked around far too easily, especially from 60th minute onwards.
Varane has been a bit of a curators egg.
I'm liking him more and more and he's looking a lot calmer and composed. I think his biggest issue that remains is he seems unsure where people will be for forward passes.
I see Ashby being mentioned.
For me he is a really poor player and I am totally shocked that the Geordies actually bought him for a £5mill package. That is mind boggling.
For the rest.....
Dembele I thought looked the real deal but I fear he's a bit of a DouDou and won't cut it at this level.
Celar is a dud.
Madsen is a pussy.
Santos looks overawed.
Morrison looks like one of those CB's who you never notice which is a cracking quality.
Can I chuck Anderson in here as well? He needs to be jettisoned in January as looks totally shot and is taking up a spot that someone with pace, energy and physique could take up.
One to add... Morgan - take a bow young man. He'll be a player this kid. |
Agreed with pretty much all of that |  |
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| New boys on 09:13 - Nov 29 with 1095 views | gazza1 |
Nardi has done very well, well done to him.
Saito has done above average, works very hard, comes across of having a good attitude, no issues.
Varane has got better but still needs to do a lot more in the centre of the park.
Morrison has looked very tidy in the few games that he has played, Could be pushing for a CB spot and not a back-up CB.
Dembele started well but hasn't progressed. Plenty of skills & ability. Jury is out.
Santos has struggled, not sure he will have enough to play in the Championship.
Madsen has shown me that he has the talent, takes a lot of abuse from posters & I understand why but he isn't as bad as posters think. Worked much harder than I have seen him work v Cardiff. Has ability and comfortable on the ball.
Celar has been absolutely poor, he was better v Cardiff but apart from the goals, which were so poorly defended, he has been extremely disappointing. I wonder how the two goals will help him. | | | |
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